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I’m back! (Well, mostly.) Also, Kellyanne Conway did a thing.

Wat

I‘m back from the depths of flu-dom and ready to take on the world, or at least some of its most terrible and ridiculous aspects. I’m not quite at full strength yet, so posting may be a bit light for a few more days. But the flu is definitely on the way out. Thanks for your patience and support!

So does anyone want to discuss that picture up there at the top of the post? Everyone else is. Is Kellyanne Conway being weird and disrespectful to the oval office visitors, a delegation from historically black colleges and universities? Or is everybody being mean to her because OMG she was just trying to take a picture with her phone?

I’m going to go with “weird and disrespectful” but what do I know.

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Freemage
Freemage
4 years ago

WB, David. I’m going to try to be ‘back’, posting a little more often going forward. I’ve missed this joint.

As for this… Okay, yeah, it really does look like KC was just trying to take a photo and got caught in an awkward position while doing it. (Feet on the sofa was probably a bad idea, of course, but it’s not something I’d sweat in a Democratic administration.)

And I’ll admit, I’m always just a bit leery of ‘conduct’ outrage directed at prominent women, even ones as awful as KC or Ann Coulter. Her ideas, her words, her general sense of ethics? All fair game. But this could so easily spill over into bashing a woman because she’s a woman.

luigi
4 years ago

The way she’s sitting is, for me, the giveaway. She looks absolutely inappropriate on the couch with her bent knees sticking out of her dress, calves tucked under her thighs. I’m embarrassed just looking at this picture.

numerobis
numerobis
4 years ago

Welcome back to the world of the living!

I think it’s slightly weird and disrespectful to take a cell phone photo with so many pros around, but whatevs. Flip side is that wanting a selfie with someone means you think that person is notable. Etiquette is hard.

That definitely looks like what she’s doing though: fiddling with her camera, in a weird and uncomfortable position presumably to get a good shot, with people lined up awkwardly in front of her as if posing for a photo.

AJ from GA
AJ from GA
4 years ago

I have to agree with Freemage. There’s really not much learn to learn from this photo. In a certain way, it reminds me of that “Obama doesn’t place his hand on his heart during the pledge” photo. (In reality, the pledge hadn’t started yet, and the people next to him had prematurely raised their hands.)

There’s much more to criticize Kellyanne about.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
4 years ago

It’s a fuckin couch, everybody relax…

More importantly, this pic is just black paint over fascist bullshit. And reports suggest, the ‘listening session’ this was meant to be was cut so much for time, that most of em didn’t even get to speak. And then DeVos used this as an opportunity to push school vouchers. Cos those work great for black people. Like anyone in the photo was asking for that. Oh, but HBCUs got the fig leaf of a direct line to the White House… full of racists

So, yeah, not sure what’s so important about a goddamn couch. Then again, Republicans tried to do the same thing to Obama in 09, so go for it

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

Hey, welcome back. I knew those voodoo rituals would work,

As to the ‘couchgate’ kerfuffle, it does seem to be a bit of a storm in a teacup. Have the people being photographed expressed any concern? Really they’re the only people that matter.

It’s not like there aren’t substantial issues to criticise her for, and this just risks being a distraction from those; especially when a lot of the criticism is just how ‘unladylike’ she’s apparently been.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

What actually stands out to me about this photo is the university presidents look awkward and uncomfortable while Trump is standing there with a shit eating grin. Such a weird disconnect.

Contrast that with Obama’s photos with guests in the White House. It always looks like he connected with the guests who always looked thrilled to be there.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Confirmation that this was just an awkward photo op and Trump didn’t listen to or respect them at all. That’s the real story here.

http://www.shakesville.com/2017/02/absolutely-unreal.html?m=1

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

Frankly, the only thing I think when I look at that photo is oh Jesus Christ she’s gonna have pins and needles from HELL when she stands up, ow ow fucking ow. Seriously, shit’s painful just to look at. oO;

… Otherwise, yeah, I couldn’t really care about the photo either way. (Trump’s daily racism, yes; Conway’s phone, no.)

dreemr
dreemr
4 years ago

Glad you’re coming back to the land of the living, David.

As for Kellyanne, yawn. I’ve got plenty of true outrage for the real, damaging things that are happening, no time for this fluff.

Rach
Rach
4 years ago

Why is a supposed feminist barking about a woman’s body language being ‘weird and disrespectful’? Male politicians’ body language is so more often overtly disrespectful- manspreading, reclining, crossing their legs in a way that shows the bottom of their shoes. I don’t like the woman but this site is not the place I would have expected to find this type of post.

I guess I just have to accept that the theme of this blog has changed.

JoeB
JoeB
4 years ago

@Axecalibur

She didn’t just use it to flog school vouchers but she did it in a painfully awkward/ignorant/offensive way.

WASHINGTON — The education secretary, Betsy DeVos, is facing a fierce backlash after she called historically black colleges and universities “real pioneers when it comes to school choice.”

On Twitter, hundreds of angry users accused her of ignoring the fact that many of the schools were founded because black students were not allowed to attend segregated white schools, not because education pioneers wanted to give African-Americans more options in higher education. Ms. DeVos, an aggressive backer of publicly funded vouchers that public school students could use for private school tuition, released her comments Monday evening shortly after meeting with several presidents from historically black colleges and universities.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/28/us/politics/betsy-devos-historically-black-colleges-statement.html

Moggie
Moggie
4 years ago

OT: Hidden (mini)figures! LEGO will be making minifigs of the “Women of NASA”! Actual rocket science!

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ David F

historically black colleges are a testament to the miracle that is “school choice.”

Presumably in the same way that the Montgomery Bus Boycott was a pre-cursor to Uber?

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
4 years ago

@luigi

The way she’s sitting is, for me, the giveaway

To what? “Giveaway”, in this context, means a minor or overlooked detail that reveals or shows the truth in something. The key clue in a mystery is the giveaway. What’s the mystery here?

She looks absolutely inappropriate on the couch with her bent knees sticking out of her dress, calves tucked under her thighs

I… I’m super not seeing the problem. Especially not framed as a matter of appropriateness and body parts. So, yeah, my eyes are really rather side right now. Take that as you will…

PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
4 years ago

Sure thing, Rach.

As for this photo, I really don’t care. This photo really of her has little meaning to me.

Freemage
Freemage
4 years ago

DeVos meant her comments exactly as they were worded. “American society and civil structure is for white people. If non-whites want similar benefits, they can/should/will have to choose to make their own.”

Because she and her boss are racist pieces of shit.

dlouwe
dlouwe
4 years ago

Given that this was a blatant photo-op, what odds do you want to give on it being just a coincidence that all the women visible in the photo are positioned closest to Trump?

EJ (Marxist Jazz Weasel)
EJ (Marxist Jazz Weasel)
4 years ago

Glad to hear you feel better, David.

Nequam
Nequam
4 years ago

At the absolute worst she’s being kind of a clueless oaf– which is SOP for this administration.

Skiriki
Skiriki
4 years ago

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3l6yagWIAAZ_fc.jpg

Anyway, now Cheetolini wants to undo Obama’s clean water act expansions.

Is he planning to drink Trump Vodka for the rest of his life? There’s probably a decent supply of that still left.

JS
JS
4 years ago

If I had the opportunity to show disrespect to trump by using my cellphone during a photo-op, I might do it. Perhaps KAC is using this as a way to subtly get a dig in at the Resident. Fortunately it also looks like disrespect to everyone else in the room, so she can claim it wasn’t directed at trump.

Then again, KAC and “subtle” do not go together. She’s probably tweeting there are no black people in the White House. Trump’s Minister of Information, etc. etc.

Wwaxwork
Wwaxwork
4 years ago

The way she’s sitting is way too strangely familiar for the environment. Do adult women in business situations sit like that no matter what they are doing? Especially in a short skirt.

Jayne
Jayne
4 years ago

She does kind of look like she’s just chillin’ on the couch checking twitter while everyone else is doing politics.

Parse The Potatoes
Parse The Potatoes
4 years ago

@Rach

Why is a supposed feminist barking about a woman’s body language being ‘weird and disrespectful’? Male politicians’ body language is so more often overtly disrespectful- manspreading, reclining, crossing their legs in a way that shows the bottom of their shoes. I don’t like the woman but this site is not the place I would have expected to find this type of post.

If a guy acted like Kellyanne did, in a professional setting and in front of 25 (or more) visitors, it would also be weird and disrespectful. The fact that she’s doing this in the Oval Office, as a member of the president’s team, in front of cameras, is simply mind-boggling. This isn’t about holding a woman to a higher standard than men; it’s about gross unprofessionalism in what amounted to little more than a photo op for the president. (“I can’t be racist, look at this picture with me and all these thu- I mean, black people!”)

AnnaB
AnnaB
4 years ago

I think the way that photo has gone viral is a good example there one of the most important ways the patriarchy polices women: reducing the woman to her physical body and judging her on it. I’m actually appalled to find it on this blog, but I’m going to chalk it up to bad judgement due to flu.

Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

@Alan

I knew those voodoo rituals would work,

Phrasing, old bean. Britain’s got plenty of its own traditions to name drop.

@Axe

I… I’m super not seeing the problem. Especially not framed as a matter of appropriateness and body parts. So, yeah, my eyes are really rather side right now. Take that as you will…

This.

Handsome :Punkle Stan: Jack

They all look like they’re standing in the same room as big ass racist smiles as if being surrounded by black people will stop people from calling him racist.

That’s what I’m getting from this picture.

dlouwe
dlouwe
4 years ago

One thing I find interesting is the perception that criticizing this picture is implicitly criticizing her body language/presentation. Given that David didn’t say anything about that, my immediate reaction was to think the criticism was for her being on her phone and ignoring the visitors. But, as someone who doesn’t face that sort of public scrutiny for my body, I’m not going to be as perceptive about those sorts of things. So even if it’s not explicitly mentioned, what sort of underlying thoughts are at play? (e.g. the passive sexism towards Clinton causing biased judgement of her actions)

I think the fact that I immediately “bought it” is noteworthy. Her posture looks really informal, which reinforces the image that she’s doing something frivolous. I honestly can’t say if I’d have had that same reaction if it was a man. Yes it would have looked out of place, but I feel like there’s a tendency to give men the benefit of the doubt – “that looks odd, but does he have a reason?” – rather than the negative snap judgement.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ dalillama

Apologies. You’ve now got me trying to think of any suitable Brit magic. There seems to be plenty of ‘spiritual rebirth’ stuff, but we don’t seem to have a tradition of physical resurrection from death. The nearest I can think of is the Cauldron of Dyrnwch (sp?). In some of the pagan ‘apocrypha’ that has the power to reanimate dead warriors. Generally though the vibe seems to be when you shuffle off this mortal coil you might have a fun time in Valhalla or Tir an Og or wherever you end up, but you ain’t coming back here. A few heads that hung around. We don’t seem to have a Baron Samedi analogue though. Wonder why that is?

Harland
Harland
4 years ago

This was actually a brilliant move. Otherwise the media would have totally ignored or misrepresented the fact that all these college representatives were meeting with Trump. By pulling this stunt, it got everyone to pay attention. You can’t not look at it.

Diptych
Diptych
4 years ago

Speaking of Trump embarrassing himself while hosting White House visitors… how about him welcoming the nation’s Governors and their “wives and daughters”?

Makroth - Agent of the Great Degeneracy
Makroth - Agent of the Great Degeneracy
4 years ago

The way she’s sitting just looks a bit painful to me.

This pic does piss me off a bit:
comment image

Imaginary Petal
Imaginary Petal
4 years ago

It’s a pretty weird picture though. If I ever saw that picture, which I just did, I would think “huh?”. And I did!

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
4 years ago

So huh, I usually sit on my knees like that too. Sure I’ll avoid it in a formal setting or while wearing shoes, but I still think it’s legit. She sure is getting defensive about it though. It’s okay, Ms Conway, you can fight for our right to sit however the fuck we like, and besides it’s not why we hate you anyway.

That said, I’m still worried about the creep running the place. I’d have expected him to want his folks to sit “respectably” around him, and I’m a bit afraid of the reasons why he’d let that go.

Now back to the real matter at hand, Trump’s attempt to blackface the hell out of his PR. I’d like that to backfire horribly as soon as possible, please. ’cause I don’t give a fuck about how Kellyanne Conway or even the Tiny Dictator himself sit, it’s more about where they do, and what they do while sat.

Regarding luigi’s comment : I think I detect sarcasm in there, but then again trolls are getting more ridiculous by the day. So Poe’s Law’s in effect and I’d rather they clarify it.

@David

Happy to hear you’re feeling better.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

How did she even get her legs up on the couch like that? Did she take off her shoes? She looks like she has her shoes off.

I’m going to have to say that she is acting unprofessionally by apparently kicking off her shoes and chillaxing like she’s at home.

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
4 years ago

@Rach

Male politicians’ body language is so more often overtly disrespectful- manspreading, reclining, crossing their legs in a way that shows the bottom of their shoes.

You what ? That’s… disrespectful ?

Okay look, I gave a side-eye to David’s “weird and disrespectful”, but questioning that he’s a feminist on that basis, especially given the overwhelming evidence that he indeed is ? That sounds a lot more like concern-trolling to me.

dlouwe
dlouwe
4 years ago

@PoM

I saw a different angle that shows she is still wearing her shoes, and she’s on the couch like that to get a photo from a specific angle. Like maybe it’s a bit odd that she’s taking a picture with her phone while there’s clearly professional photographers there, but like, oh well?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ sinkable john

That’s… disrespectful ?

In some cultures showing the soles of your feet is considered a pretty big insult. It was an issue in Somalia when US troops used to dangle their feet from helicopters on patrol. It was basically like flying around giving the finger to everyone below (the Pakistani military did warn them).

Rach
Rach
4 years ago

That ankle-on-knee thing men do when they want to air their bollocks in public. I don’t like it when they point the dirty soles of their shoes at other people because it’s thoughtless and aggressive.

And no, I don’t think David is a real feminist. I think he’s just a general ‘progressive’ and will go along with anything that comes under that umbrella. He often says things, and leaves these unsaid, that lets me know he just doesn’t get it.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

that shows she is still wearing her shoes,

WHY

So she’s got her shoes up on the couch?

Drumpf must run a super-casual office if people are putting their shoes on the couch and he doesn’t shut that shit down.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
4 years ago

@Alan:

Apologies. You’ve now got me trying to think of any suitable Brit magic.

When I think of ‘suitable Brit magic’, it tends to go very high-symbolism, erudite and filled with performance art. Granted, I’m probably influenced by people like the Magus of Northampton, a.k.a. Alan Moore.

So, perhaps staging a play in which a man brought low by disease once again finds the strength to lift a shield coloured with jester’s motley?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ jenora

Ooh, you a fan of sympathetic magic then? Supposedly one of Crowley’s tricks was to follow someone and mimic their movements exactly. Then he’d deliberately fall down and so would his target.

the Magus of Northampton

Might I plug Varalys’ blog? She’s written a lot of very insightful stuff about comics’ favourite curmudgeon.

(now I fancy a discussion about the parallels between voodoo dolls and poppets; but that’s probably getting off topic a bit)

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

Kellyanne Conway: Isn’t she the Trump adviser who punched a guy at the inaugural ball? Snopes says this is “unproven,” but Charlie Gasparino of Fox Business News swears it’s true.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2953966.1485228735!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_1200/usa-trump.jpg

Here she is at the inaugural ball. No photos of the fight!

And she has advice for women!

“If women want to be taken seriously in the workforce, looking feminine is a good place to start.”

http://theslot.jezebel.com/trump-campaign-hires-gender-gap-expert-kellyanne-conway-1782959310

So her definition of “feminine” is quite expansive–at least when it comes to herself.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@Makroth
What am I missing? Why does that photo piss you off?

Inquiring minds are baffled.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I hate, hate, hate shoes on couches or beds. Yuck!

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
4 years ago

@Rach

Thought you meant the legs extended with feet pointing up thing. Doesn’t matter though, and the following applies to both. Alright, I’ll give you that it ain’t exactly polite to point dirty shoes at people, sure. I would definitely worry about that say, on a bus or subway, if the people standing are too close and might dirty their clothes. But then in a case like this, it’s the same as manspreading because it does take up more space, so I wouldn’t sit like that in the first place. But other than the very specific cases of dirty shoes and a crowded place, I don’t really see the problem.

And no, I don’t think David is a real feminist. I think he’s just a general ‘progressive’ and will go along with anything that comes under that umbrella. He often says things, and leaves these unsaid, that lets me know he just doesn’t get it.

This I’m just gonna stare at for a bit and have a laugh. So are you a sock or a genuine new concern troll ?

@Alan

I’ll keep that in mind if I ever go there then. My travelling days are pretty much over though so I think I can rest easy about people seeing my feet from the wrong side.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

So . . . Jews are to blame for anti-Semitic crimes? But only “sometimes”?

Report: Trump Says of Anti-Semitic Crimes, “Sometimes It’s the Reverse”
The president gives another bizarre response to the wave of hate crimes.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/02/trump-anti-semitic-attacks-sometimes-its-reverse

Or maybe it’s progressives who are to blame? Feminists?

It seems like only yesterday Jerry Falwell was blaming feminists (and fellow travelers) for the events of 9/11. Good times.

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