It’s not news to anyone that some of the most popular antifeminist “arguments” are in fact logical fallacies.
For example, here’s the fallacy of relative privation, suggesting that women in first world countries aren’t allowed to complain about sexism so long as anyone in the world is worse off than them.
And here’s the good old straw man, in the form of a meme accusing feminists of believing all sorts of things they don’t believe (as well as a few things they do believe, but for perfectly good reasons).
MRAs: in case you’re wondering which of these statements are straw men and why, I’ve attached a helpful footnote below.
So, yeah, those are some logical fallacies on display. But looking through the memes on display on the Male Lives Matter Facebook page today — which is where the memes above came from — I began to realize that MRAs have invented a whole bunch of brand-new logical fallacies of their own.
Let’s take a look, shall we?
Argumentum ad Picard Facepalm
This “argument” might make a little more sense were it not for the fact that Patrick Stewart — you know, the dude who played Picard — weren’t in fact an outspoken feminist who has literally worn a “this is what a feminist looks like” shirt in public.
I should note that using a Picard facepalm pic isn’t always a fallacy For example, if you are Ian McKellen, a personal friend of Stewart who famously carried a Picard facepalm sign at the London Women’s March this January.
Argumentum ad Ha Ha You’ll Never Get Laid
Granted, “white knighting” is not the same as feminism; it’s a rather patronizing form of “chivalry.” And that last post on the right up there is a little cringey.
But this meme is aimed at male feminists. And while there are some ostentatiously “feminist” dudes who profess a shallow facsimile of feminism in hopes of scoring with the ladies, genuinely feminist dudes are feminists because, you know, they actually believe in equality and shit. As much as this might shock MRAs and others obsessed with classifying men according to simplistic schemes using Greek letters, feminism doesn’t actually render men unfuckable.
Hell, I have actual photographic proof that one of the guys in this very meme has had sex with at least one woman at least once. Here’s the guy in the middle up there — Nev Schulman of the show Catfish — posing recently with his very pregnant wife.
IN YOUR FACE MRAS!!!11!
In case you’re wondering, she has since given birth to a baby girl.
Argumentum ad WTF-um
Wat
Argumentum ad You’re Not a Fireman
Apparently if you’re a female feminist you’re not entitled to emergency services? Even if you pay taxes just like everybody else? Does that apply to male feminists too? I need to know before I light my apartment on fire.
It’s true that there are not a lot of female firefighters. It’s also true that women have been largely kept out of the profession. But not by feminists — the only people I ever see arguing against women firefighters are MRAs and other antifeminists.
Argumentum ad You’re Not a Coal Miner
A kind of mash-up of the Fallacy of Relative Privation and Argumentum ad You’re Not a Fireman. It’s worth pointing out that none of the MRAs I’ve ever seen making this “argument” has themselves been a coal miner.
Argumentum ad Women Sometimes Get Drunk
It’s true that women sometimes get really, really drunk. I’m not quite sure how exactly this is a rebuttal of feminism.
Or is this about the hats? Are you suggesting that women need to start wearing 1956-style hats again?
It’s all very confusing. I think I need a drink.
FOOTNOTE:
Here are the straw men in that straw man meme above:
On drunk women: feminists DO believe drunk women should be responsible for their behavior. Just not the behavior of others. If a woman drives drunk, feminists have no problem with her charged with drunk driving. If a woman is raped while she is drunk, by contrast, feminists don’t think she should be charged with “drunk being raped.”
On alimony, etc: Women do pay alimony and child support when a court rules that it’s appropriate, and no feminist I’ve ever seen has argued that they shouldn’t.
On the draft: Feminists have long argued that women should be allowed to serve in combat and the National Organization for Women has in fact taken legal action to try to extend selective service registration to women,
As for the other ones? I’m not quite sure how exactly the “false accusers should be charged” crowd defines a “false accuser,” but, yes, it’s true feminists don’t want rape accusers charged if they lose a rape case any more than they want murder accusers to be prosecuted for losing a murder case. Accusers of all sorts can be prosecuted for filing a false police report, but this is relatively rare.
Meanwhile, 50-50 custody can be crappy for kids, so it makes little sense to make it the default setting. As for the one about “unwed fathers,” is that really saying what it looks like it’s saying? If so, no, feminists don’t think fathers should be allowed to force women to get an abortion (or to not get an abortion).
EDIT: I reworked the paragraph on feminist dudes and sex to make myself clearer.
Clear misandry. Demand equal assigned-gender representation among babies!
@eli:
I get that – being misunderstood in a very different way to what I mean.
@Troubelle – I know what you mean and I’m concerned eli can’t see it the same way.
@eli – I sometimes feel like I speak a different language, the responses don’t seem to make sense (like, “but that’s not what I said?” and much confusion).
It’s particularly bad when I’m tired and stressed though, and later I realise how they (and then often I) misunderstood – or even that whatever bothered me at the time wasn’t actually an issue in hindsight.
It sounds like your situation is putting you under serious pressure and I want to make sure you are okay.
From what I know the people here know what they’re talking about and I’d value their knowledge over many others. I personally would ask here before anywhere else as regards such things.
I hope you’re alright.
Sadly, your mention of Nev Schulman is probably going to feed a new MRA factoid – inferior beta jism spawns girl babies. To preserve the sub-species “man” (as distinct from the sub-species “woman”) we need more alpha-males. But then of course, you’ll get betas passing themselves off as alphas & … oh shit, my whole argument’s just gone pear-shaped.
@MGTOWRevolutionary
Unlike other Mammotheers, I’m not gonna sugarcoat my message.
You are correct.
Women are extraordinarily dangerous.
Run, little MGTOW, run like the wind!
Regarding the miner, I’ve heard lots of stories about the privileged life the wife of a miner leads.
Cooking, cleaning, raising kids, tending the garden, taking care of her elderly parents and parents-in-law, meeting with her kids’ teachers, worrying about her husband, sons, and father dying on any workday of the week . . .
@Kat: that’s what always got me with these whole “look how hard blue collar men have it” things. What do they think the women do? In a typical household, there is a house to take care of, probably kids to raise, meals to cook, groceries to buy, connections with family/friends/others to maintain, dishes to clean, clothes to wash, etc etc etc. That work is never done, and there are no holidays or weekends off.
Also the fact that the spouses of miners could get black lung as well.
Women have worked for the entirety of history. It might not have brought in money (though having read guest’s blog, I see that this is perhaps not quite true to how things worked, back in the day?) but it kept things running so the wage earner could go out and earn a wage.
Why are support positions never honoured?
(We gave the IT department the biggest applause during my graduation, because they were the ones who helped us the most when things were burning down around us.)
IP (from unpleasant personal experience) make sure you have good financial controls. The person keeping the books should never have check signing authority, purchases over a specified dollar amount must be pre-approved, and cash from fundraisers, etc, should be counted by more than one person. If you can afford it, an audit is worth the price; if you can’t afford it, advertise for accounting volunteers.
Best of luck!
As far as the ADHD goes, I was initially given Vyvanse for binge eating disorder – it’s specifically approved for that, so my insurance company couldn’t give me any grief. If you can find a sympathetic doctor you might be able to get a workaround.
@Rhuu
Yeah, that’s exactly what life was like for my mother. When her four kids were all in school, she returned to work as an RN. Back in those days, nurses were paid very little, and I’m gonna guess that the hierarchy was even more hierarchical.
The Fix Analysis
John McCain just systematically dismantled Donald Trump’s entire worldview
John McCain is a nasty piece of work — but he’s a lot better than Donald Trump.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/17/john-mccain-just-systematically-dismantled-donald-trumps-entire-worldview
McCain needs to turn his words into action. It’s nothing but sound and fury until his votes start matching his rhetoric.
McCain:
“I hate Trump he is a terrible person and president”
/continues to vote in favor of whatever Trump wants and whoever Trump wants in
I’ll believe his words when I see some action.
@Kat
No, he’s only marginally better, if that. He’s a right wing scumbag who wants to gut the already pathetic social safety net, destroy education, and opposes anti discrimination laws. He’s a complete shithead, and doesn’t get any points for not being openly fascist.
@Dalillama : Shepherd of Demonic Crocodiles.
Yeah and even for his one good point of not condoning torture. I would bet good money if he wasn’t subjected to such inhumane treatment he’d be cheerleading for waterboarding and all sorts of atrocities in the name of american imperialism. For some people to get it they need to suffer the same things they inflict onto those they oppress.
Also for the coal mining one?
Argumentum ad Ignoring The Definition of “Privilege” Being Used.
That would be a special case of equivocation.
And if he tries to get a paternity test she will file a divorce and take all his money. I bet 90% that the child in her belly isn’t his, women are not biologically attracted to beta males. Anybody who says otherwise is a liar.
He is being tricked and coerced into raising the kid of a mach asshole alpha male. If you see a beta in a relationship with her it always hints that there is a third person involved.
Only 90 percent?
Dude . . .
“Hints”! What the hell happened to the guy with your name who said the statistic was “100 percent”!
You used to be such a stalwart champion of MGTOWs.
@MenGoTOWhineRevolutionary
Women are worse off financially from divorces.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/acs-13.pdf
Wolf wolf wolf wolf wolf
ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF
bow wow bow wow bow.
More pseudoscience
Because why bother with facts.
Cite your papers please.
“The Burden of Proof is with you not me!”
You’re making anthropologists cry with how much pseudoscience you guzzle down and spew out.
It’s entirely possible that I should have read up on John McCain before praising his (incredible) comment.
@Kat
The R after his name tells you everything you need to know about him. There are no Republicans who are not at minimum fascist sympathisers.
@MGTOWReactionary
You still haven’t answered Axe’s question. Is he the beta, or is that my husband?
All these years later I still have no idea what MGTOWs and the rest of the misogynistic manosphere are banging on about when they talk about “beta men”.
What does that even mean?
Re being misunderstood….I’m starting to get concerned by the fact that I seem to be more and more ‘misunderstood’ when I think I’m communicating extremely clearly, even in writing. The other day I sent an email to someone that said ‘person X from company Y told me Z.’ I got back an email saying ‘oh, so you didn’t hear it from company Y [as I had told her on the phone before; the email was a followup confirmation], it was actually someone from company Q who told you?’ I wrote her back saying ‘no, if you look at the email quoted below [and remember what I told you on the phone already] I wrote to you that person X from company Y told me.’ Then she wrote back and said ‘oh, sorry, I thought it was a typo and you meant company Q.’ The only thing the two words have in common is that they happen to start with the same letter. What more could I have possibly done to communicate this information clearly? This is a particularly egregious example, but I just happen to be noticing more and more of this type of thing happening to me lately, and I have no idea how I could possibly be more clear. It can’t be the accent, since it happens in writing as well….
@MGTOWRevolutionary
If you outright reject facts that oppose your worldview as lies, your conclusions are not going to be based in fact, but rather in your own opinion. Is that a concern for you?
More importantly, why should anyone bother to have a discussion with you if you announce that you’ve already concluded whether or not they’re a liar, based on what they are going to say?
‘Biological attraction’ in the was you’re implying probably makes sense to you, but there are a lot of theories that make sense on the surface but aren’t born out by the facts. For example, people thought the sun travelled around the earth for a long time, because that seemed to make the most sense, given our limited perspective on the issue at the time. But once we learned more, and got a new perspective, it became clear that it was actually the earth traveling around the sun. There were some people who insisted that anyone who said the earth travelled around the sun were liars – historically, they ended up looking pretty silly and pompous.
Similarly, maybe you have only personally met women who are interested in a particular kind of man before, or women who are unfaithful; so the idea of biological attraction to alpha men seems to explain what you’ve observed. Maybe if you meet a wider range of women, and try to proceed with an open mind, you’ll start coming to some different conclusions.
The reality is that different women are attracted to all different kinds of men; maybe partly because diversity is usually a good thing in terms of evolution, but probably primarily because there are so many things that go into what humans find attractive that is influenced by our lives and experiences rather than our biology.
@guest:
I notice that you’re like me in that you use a lot of words, and overexplain when you’re uncertain. I also get misunderstood when I do this. I’ve been getting good results by trying to do the opposite and make my explanations as short as possible.
I don’t know if this is useful to you but I thought I’d share.
@MGTOWRevolutionary you also assume that this response:
Indicates that the woman in question is afraid of a paternity test. Well, first of all, if she is, that’s not a very smart way to respond, since now her ex husband could get her to take a court-ordered paternity test anyway. So maybe this woman doesn’t know that – but I think the answer might be simpler than that: she’s not afraid, she’s hurt and offended.
How would you feel if a long-time partner who you have chosen to raise a family with suddenly started to voice suspicions that you had been cheating on them? What if your wife one day starts calling your work to check if you’re ‘really’ there, and not just sneaking around on her behind her back?
Now, I’m in a very open relationship (note that I am a man in relationship with other men so my particular relationship style unfortunately has little to do with your assumptions about women), and we don’t have any assumptions about monogamy, but I can imagine that if any of my partners started implying that they didn’t trust me on something then I probably would feel very hurt. Certainly I would want to prove to them that I was still trustworthy as well, but if their reason for not trusting me was ‘people like you are biologically predisposed to be untrustworthy’ then I would probably assume the relationship was unsalvageable, and I would break up with them.