Today’s POST-VALENTINE’S DAY 50% OFF SALE ON BELATED VALENTINE’S DAY POSTS continues with a little peek into the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit, where the locals have declared war on flowers, men who give women flowers, and of course the women who have flowers given to them.
In the waning hours of Valentine’s Day, a MGTOW calling himself davisyoung posted a photo of a man buying flowers at a supermarket — traditionally the most romantic place to buy last-minute Valentine’s day flowers because you forgot it was Valentine’s day.
“Suckers!!!!!” davisyoung crowed. “And Happy Int’l MGTOW Day to everyone.”
International MGTOW Day is the alternate holiday that MGTOWs celebrate every Valentine’s day. Traditional International MGTOW Day activities include posting bitter misogynistic tirades on Reddit, posting bitter misogynistic tirades on places other than Reddit, and muttering bitter misogynistic tirades under one’s breath.
Naturally, the MGTOW subreddit regulars were happy to share their holiday spirit.
Someone called dot_dot_beep won dozens of upvotes for this lovely sentiment:
Women and consumerism are complementary parasites on the backs of the beasts of burden that are men. Look at those simps–psychologically broken there hoping some flowers will gain their master’s approval.
Andreas-mgtow agreed, declaring that these pathetic flower-buying men only “do it [so as] not to elicit the wrath of their live-in she monsters.”
Really? My live-in she-monsters prefer catnip, or even just a fresh can of cat food. (Note for extremely literal-minded readers: That’s because they are cats. That’s the joke. Not because I live with a group of women who demand I feed them Friskies.)
TheCommentMutilator offered a little field report:
This year was my first in 17 years of not going through these motions. Went to the grocery this evening to grab some things for dinner and it felt so good to not have to search for the obligatory Valentine’s Day gift.
No ring on my finger, no chocolates or flowers in the cart. Just me and my steaks and vegetables. The vacant, hollow eyes that gazed at my cart bolstered my pride in being a single man on this day.
The “vacant, hollow eyes that gazed at your cart?!” Where the hell are you shopping anyway?
I’ve never been a big fan of Valentine’s day myself, but jeez guys, get a fucking grip.
Before it was legal around here (and before my transition, which is relevant; I have a very different presentation these days), I used to get regularly approached by people who assumed I had weed to sell (a couple weeks ago, though, a fellow asked if I had any acid to sell him,)
@Fricklefrackle, Axe
There is reason to believe that a significant percentage of humans (~15%) simply don’t care for intoxicants. Another (~15-20%) can’t do without them, and everyone else can basically take or leave them. This is based on studies of vervet monkeys on St Kitt’s, where they are an introduced species. St. Kitt’s being long on tourism, there are resorts all over the place full of tourists with alcoholic beverages, and many (though not all, see above) of the monkeys have developed a habit of stealing drinks when people aren’t looking. So they got studied.
I personally don’t care for intoxicants.
I like alcoholic beverages for the taste, but I hate the part about getting drunk. I’ve had medical experience with a variety of drugs (valium, cocaine, morphine) and hated it. I was much happier being in pain than being on morphine. Because of that, while it’s a pretty normal thing for someone to offer me their joint, I have yet to even try.
But I like happy people. A lot of people enjoy being mildly intoxicated, and I’m happy for them, and it’s fun times.
Heavy intoxication bugs me; I find it no fun at all to watch someone who’s lost control and is completely glassy-eyed or literally crawling to the toilet, hoping to get there before they puke.
Dalillama: I remember one time downtown Santa Cruz some guy walks up and asks to bum a [cigarette, I figure he’s going to say] joint. It was the most Santa Cruz moment ever.
@Alan:
Yes. Terra Chips are relatively common over here; there are other companies selling them, but that’s the brand I’ve seen show up most often, even in places like airport lounges. Good stuff.
Hmm, now I need to buy a bag to take to my friend’s place… I would need to check the ingredients to be sure, he’s got food allergies. (Mostly tree nuts in his case, though I seem to recall sesame seeds as well. Something like vegetable chips should be no problem, but it’s always good to check.)
@FrickleFrackle, Axecalibur, Dalillama:
I’m sort of the same, in the ‘don’t care for intoxicants’ end of things, though not quite as extreme. Never even tried cannabis though I’ve smelled it around; certain the smell of that is nowhere near as nasty as standard cigarette tobacco. (Pipe tobacco is a different matter; that’s meant to smell good rather than just be addictive.)
My parents are ‘glass of wine with dinner’ types, and that’s about as much as I ever drink. The furthest I’ll go is that sort of state where my balance and reaction times are slightly affected, but my judgement is still good enough to recognize that my reaction time is affected. And I don’t generally get even that far if I’ve been paying attention.
(One time I got that far involved a restaurant with their own brewery in Vancouver, where I had a raspberry beer. An entire pint of something that was about 11% alcohol was more than I was expecting.)
I do like alcohol, I prefer liqueurs though because it’s all about taste to me. That said, I usually stay away from it. In my early 20s (before I re-re-realized* that my issues were due to being trans) I spent 3 days straight drunk, once I sobered up I realized that drinking could all too easily become a crutch for me so I resolved to tightly limit my alcohol consumption.
As far as pot goes, I’ve tried it, it doesn’t do a thing at all for me. It helps my partner to manage chronic pain though without resorting to synthetics/opioids.
*if that confuses anyone I can explain.
@Jesalin
Similar
You have the floor… 🙂
@FrickleFrackle
Nope ! However :
That is kinda bad in a way, unless you mean it like what Axe said afterwards :
See I can get behind that, to be fair. I for one refuse to be anywhere near anyone who’s beyond a certain drunkenness threshold, or under the influence of certain particularly nasty drugs.
Now I’m kind of the official party-medic/fire-keeper/that-guy-who-makes-sure-everyone’s-still-alive-and-relatively-warm-and-fed-at-the-end-of-the-festival pretty much everywhere I go, so that seriously limits my ability to avoid those people, since more often than not I’ll end up tending to them and seriously reconsidering some life choices.
Anyway, not wanting to be near someone under the influence is perfectly fine, because honestly it can be a fucking burden. Too much of the good stuff, or any quantity of the bad stuff, and that person’s problem becomes your problem by virtue of being anywhere near them and still having a somewhat clear head.
But not wanting to be near anyone who sometimes does drugs sends an entirely different message, and it’s one we hear often, and hate for obvious reasons. The War on Drugs tells us we’re wretches, the lowliest dregs of subhumanity, and so on, so you can imagine why we ain’t really amused with that kinda thinking.
@Axe
I completely understand the part about it being intimidating. It is, even to me, and more often than not I’m in the exact same state they are. Even beyond that, there’s some actual risk involved too. Most people will try to keep the bullshit in check when they’re high, but some don’t, and the last thing you want is to stand next to someone who’s having a fit of paranoia and not giving a care in the world whether they’re freaking everyone else out or not. ‘nother reason why I end up improvising meself as party-medic, to be fair. I’m always afraid of what some dumbass might do if no one’s watching them.
It’s a complex subject, and one that we haven’t even began to consider because of said War on Drugs, so there’s a lot of catching up to do.
@dlouwe
Duly noted ! That sounds like a significantly lower price than I remembered (but then again that was years ago) so it’s really starting to get interesting. I’m worried about the speed, though. ’cause I really like taking my time to smoke my joints before going to sleep, and it seems like using a vaporizer would kinda kill that.
At any rate I gotta look into it.
@Sinkable John
Yeah, if you’re used to the habit of actually smoking something, switching to a vaporizer is a bit of an adjustment. (I don’t even have that habit and I understand the appeal) The hand-held/pen style ones will mimic the physical action more, and the portability is very handy, but honestly I’ve never found it particularly “satisfying.” Plus they tend to keep the herb inside the heating chamber, which means it’s actively being heated as long as it’s on.
My table-top (Arizer Extreme Q), however, has the herb positioned above the heating element such that it’ll get warmed up while the unit is on, but is primarily heated by drawing hot air across it as you inhale, so you can leave it on for quite a while and take your time. It’s not portable so you can’t do the “smoke break” thing with it, but it’s great for lounging around; I like to just leave it on while I’m watching TV so I can take the occasional pull as desired.
@Axe
I realized I was trans when I was 10, repressed it.
I re-realized I was trans when I was 20, repressed it.
I re-re-realized that I am trans a few years ago.
@dlouwe
Aight, I’m getting one of these as soon as finances allow. I don’t generally smoke while on the move so table-top won’t be a problem, and really I just spent an hour rolling two joints because I completely suck at crumbling hash for some reason, even though I’ve been doing it for, oh, I dunno, ten years 😐
Less crumbling involved, but I can still take my time, and I can break even on the cost blindingly fast. Yeaaaah… should’ve done this years ago.
Thanks for all dat info, now I got a pretty good idea of what I need.
@Jenora Feuer
Oh, I’m not in that category at all. I was merely pointing out that it’s a normal range of behaviour. I quite like wine, cider, brandy (there’s a distillery in town that makes apple and pear brandies; I usually can’t afford them, but so good), and whiskies (Islay Scotch especially, Laphroaig for a favourite). Also, as Axe notes, I use cannabis to keep my gastric troubles in check, as well as for pain.
Since I’m working on processing the Facebook argument I thought I would describe it.
1) Copy and paste the contents of the web page or text of the exchanges into a Word document. (I’m now experimenting with addons that extract as a pdf). Make two copies: raw and with formatting removed. Save into file sorted by person I was arguing with.
2) Save a screen shot of the entire exchange and save it.
3) Make a copy of the appropriate file and start replacing the identities of all of the posters besides me and my opponent with Respondent #n (My opponent and/or me as well if looking at more complex bias, the whole thing is a form of objectification).
4) Organize and format the text into a form that displays each sub-exchange (individual argument thread) seperately.
5) Start looking for patterns.
It’s a data source for individual examples of trolls, abusers, defenders of other shitty people and behavior, assholes, bigots and any other social interaction that I deemed worth saving and thinking about. I have hundreds of these and to me it seems like a good way to introspect about one’s performance, motivations, justifications and other useful things that can remove irrational bias from oneself. So it’s not all slicing up people in take-down form for many dozens of intense exchanges (I remember many awful people defending Elliot Rodger that I tore into and probed around, but I still I have to respect that this is not a kind thing that I do).
I think my “come at me bro” had an effect. This is a long response gap. I challenged them to personally prove to me that I should not want to be attracted to male people or want to have sex with another male person and added that I don’t really have a set preference when it comes to sex and gender, I like all kinds of people.
As an example I of something that I posted here is a step by step list for how to deal with bigots that was a rhetorical response to a step by step list for “converting”/”curing” gays.
A lot of it is “first draft” ideas that came to me as I experimented with new approaches for rationally putting pressure on a bigoted person in a social context. I’m happy with the results, and will be happy to consider suggestions in strategy or content. It will also have a comprehensive trigger warning.
@Jesalin
There was a thread a while back, where, after dealing with a particularly odd and ornery troll, we had a hi5 session for queer folks who’re ‘late bloomers’. That is, it took a while (mid 20s-ish and later) to realize/accept stuff. IDK, just reminded me of that..
Hi5! 🙂
@Dalillama:
Yes, the problems of trying to craft one reply for multiple people in an ongoing discussion, tweaking along the way; what you end up with doesn’t necessarily match the supposed recipients list as well as it probably should. Sorry for the confusion.
Never got into whiskies myself, though I should probably see what my brother-in-law gets done with… he and my sister run a craft distillery (he handles most of the brewing, my sister handles more of the business end of things) and they should have whisky sometime within the next couple of years after it has aged the requisite time before they can legitimately call it that. Their gin is definitely interesting.
How are you defining drug? That can be pretty broad. Even if you’re only limiting it to things that alter mood and/or behavior, it still includes caffeine and a lot of herbal supplements. It also includes psychiatric drugs that some people need in order to function.
And I don’t feel like looking up anything just now (maybe later) because I don’t do homework on Friday nights but if I had to guess, I bet half the adult population in the US has smoked pot at least once. I think my brother and my grandmother might be the only people I know who’ve never done it. Lots of good, ethical people do it.
There’s nothing wrong with not wanting to get drunk or high or not wanting to be around people who are wasted, but yeah, you sound kind of judgmental. Also, by commenting here, you are around people who sometimes do drugs. I haven’t smoked pot in about two years though. Not sure if that makes safe to be around or not. Is there a statute of limitations?
Since you’re questioning it, it sounds like it’s something you can work on though. That’s a good thing. We all have this kind of shit to work through. I use to make body/looks shaming comments when I was younger. Fortunately, I quit doing that. Unfortunately, I still have a bit of linger classism to work on. It’s not easy to get rid of the negative messages we internalize from our culture. What I always try to do is morally judge people based on how they treat others and base whether or not I would want to be friends with someone on how they treat others + their opinions on political and social justice issues + how funny and interesting they are. You might also want to remind yourself that you have no way of knowing whether or not someone does any illegal drugs by sight or first impression. Plus, who would you rather hang out with? A hippie type who smokes up from time to time? Or a right wing evangelical Christian who thinks that pot smoking hippie is going to hell? I know which I’d choose 🙂
Anyone want to metaphorically “get bloody” at some point?
Long-term effects of cannabis on brain structure.
I’ve used that to do a little casual hypothesizing for my set of conditions as a person, but nothing too strong. It’s still a science and I have a set of ethics for interpretation of journal articles in how I think about common experience. I also just bought a new CFX vaporizer. I like to consider writing projects in multiple frames of mind.
You know it’s tempting on some level.
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/2/2c/Discord_'And_I_win'_S2E1.png
@Axe
Thanks 🙂
Yeah, honestly my post did kinda come off as judgmental, and I really think I have a lot of stuff to unlearn. With not wanting to be around people that use drugs, yeah I know that isn’t possible. Hell, I take Adderall and Lexapro (my dad also takes the latter), and if I don’t take the Lexapro I have constant chest pains, Even so I still feel bad about having to use anything at all, like I should just live with it. While I enjoy eating (and you can tell by looking at me, heh), I also feel like I shouldn’t really eat, either. Maybe I’m just terrified of the fact that people are weird meat engines and not like, disembodied thoughts? I don’t even know how to put it.
That said, I try not to actively look down upon those who use drugs or anything. I’m also coming to terms with the fact that I’ll probably drink when I’m 21. However, doing so would feel like a betrayal of myself. I’ve had my thought processes compared to religious dogma, how I basically think that if someone tried to kill you, you should accept death rather than fight back because violence is mean, and being mean is not okay. Which is of course suicidal, impractical, and goes against how I myself would act if threatened, but I really want to be a good person and believe that some degree of pacifism is part of that. I think similarly to drugs. Basically, if it’s ingested and it makes your behavior or life different, not necessarily better or worse even, I’m scared of it because I was told to be. It’s not because of health or practicality, so maybe I’m really just scared that people have control of their own destinies? I don’t believe in a God or similar being, but I do just kind of believe that things will either work or they won’t and whether they do isn’t for anyone to decide. And the sad thing is I know it’s stupid to think like this but I just can’t not. Or maybe I can and I just want to feel different? Dunno anymore really, this got real rambly real fast, sorry!
Oh and on the topic of violence, since I mentioned it! Years ago, when I was like 12 or so (20 now), this one kid in my Scout troop suicide baited me pretty much whenever he could, all because I was annoying (I really was and can still be, but that’s way disproportionate). However, he also once tried pushing me down a flight of concrete stairs (about 200 steps iirc). I don’t remember that, but I’d believe it, considering how he once held my head underwater, and when I got my head back above the water, he just looked at me with the coldest, most hateful, dead eyes I have ever seen. I forget the exact look but I remember that happening.
And yet, at the time and reflecting on it now, I can’t bring myself to hate him. I’ve been told by friends of mine that I probably should, and I think they’re right. I’ve been called a goody-goody in a pejorative sense, because I really desperately want to follow rules and to never hurt anyone, or at least I tell myself I do.
‘Maybe I’m just terrified of the fact that people are weird meat engines and not like, disembodied thoughts?’
I’m sure I’m not the only person who (because they were a) unusually intelligent and b) rewarded for it) grew up feeling like a ‘brain in a box’ (or a ‘ghost in a machine’)–that I, myself, was somehow ‘inside’ my body, peering out through the eye holes. The thing that suddenly and instantly changed my perspective was taking a ‘model mugging’ (practical protection for women–‘mugging’ is a euphemism) course in college. Not entirely sure why that was the thing that did it, but ever since then I’ve understood that ‘I’ am all of me, not just the thoughts in my brain. ‘Model mugging’ may not be the thing that does it for you, but possibly a martial art of some sort (Alan would be the person to sound out about that), or some kind of total-concentration physical activity that requires kinesthetic/body skills, observational skills (connecting you strongly with the world outside your body), and analytical skills.
@FrickleFrackle,
For what it’s worth, I didn’t read it as definitely judgemental of others, and I don’t think other responders did either. You have clarified a lot, and it seems to be mainly about your thoughts and feelings around your own activity.
You’ve said you sometimes feel you should
not be around anyone that uses illegal drugs in any capacity,
just suffer any condition that could be alleviated by medication,
not eat food,
accept death if someone tries to kill you,
hate that kid who injured you.
You haven’t applied those standards to anyone else. Except for the last, they are unreasonable standards for everybody; and the last is, like the decision to use or not use intoxicants, as long as it’s without harming others, purely personal to you.
Your “shoulds” don’t look to me like they are hurting other people, but they do look like they are making you very uncomfortable at the very least. I am not saying you should get rid of them, but I do suggest continuing to examine where they have come from and how they are affecting you.
Also, the awareness that I am a weird meat engine still hits me hard from time to time, but I promise it gets easier to ride out as time goes by.
@ guest
That’s actually something they try to teach in certain branches of the armed forces. They call it ‘port-holing’.
The idea is that you detach your consciousness from your physical body as a way of coping with otherwise overwhelming or unendurable situations. So you can perform a complex task, like defusing a bomb under fire. In effect you’re trying to emulate teleprescence control of your ‘robot’ body. It’s also used to resist torture. You’re just taught to zen out, like it’s happening to someone else and you’re merely a disinterested observer.
I find it helpful for exercise. You can ignore all the physical unpleasantness and at the end it’s like one of those car journeys where you suddenly go “I can’t even remember driving here”.
(As for the related thing of increasing ‘situational awareness’ there are some useful techniques there too. I won’t ramble on, you’ve mentioned one way, but for example the Wing Chung people practice something called chin sao (‘sticky hands’) and that gets you to a state where you’re subliminally aware of everything immediately around you and where you fit in)
@Jesalin
No prollem, fam
@Frickle
You’re a good person. If a bit confused. But you’re a kid, so that’s allowed 😛
That’s your choice. It’s a literal choice you can make. If you don’t wanna drink, you don’t hafta. If you do, you can. Every drink I ever had or didn’t have was a decision. Different people make those choices differently.* Whatever works for you 🙂
Fun fact: that’s some old bullshit. Few things peeve me more than people telling people how they should feel about their own experiences. How would being angry at this person actually help you? Been there, done that. You ‘should’ feel however you feel, period. And, if you wanna change your feelings on something, that’s cool too. Just not cos of some nebulous ‘should’
*acknowledging that alcoholics exists, for whom their illness precludes a meaningful choice in the matter. And those predisposed to addiction. Was speaking in a general sense, and was not intending to ignore that. Seemed like I did, so mentioning it here
FrickleFrackle: there’s a world of difference between wanting to take recreational drugs yourself, and accepting that others take them.
More generally, “I wouldn’t do that” is for the most part not legitimately a problem to anyone. “You shouldn’t do that” is where you’re imposing your morals on someone else, which is much trickier to justify.
You don’t need to drink if you don’t want to. There’s often social pressure, but here’s a trick I learned from a colleague: they will, at a celebratory party, take a glass of champagne and NOT DRINK IT. Nobody notices.
A large minority of people never drink alcohol. It’s about as common as binge drinking — both extremes are about a quarter or so of the population IIRC.
Sinkable John: I should think that even learning on Valentine’s Day would be a great way to see just how good it was that you dodged that bullet! But you are obviously a kind soul who still cares about people you once loved – such a sweetie!! LOTS of hugs to you – you deserve them all!