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#ResistTrump actual activism trump

#ResistTrump by joining a local Indivisible group, maybe?

An Indivisible group in Oregon

We need to keep making calls — they’re working! 5Calls, as always, has some suggestions, scripts, and phone numbers for your congress members.

Especially important, at least for voters in Ohio and Kansas: Calling to oppose Betsy DeVos for Education Secretary. The vote on her nomination was delayed, and now could come Saturday or early next week. See here for the latest news on the anti-DeVos efforts and phone numbers for the possible swing-vote Senators.

Another issue which has gotten zero media attention: Congresswoman Maxine Waters is calling for a serious investigation of Trump’s Russian ties. Urge your congressperson to support her!

But if you want to go beyond calls, consider joining a local Indivisible group and visiting your elected officials in person with a large number of new friends.

Find (or start) a local group here, and check out the Indivisible Twitter feed to see some inspiring pics of these groups in action.

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AlanSmithee
AlanSmithee
4 years ago

Indivisible is a DNC astroturf organization run by DP beltway political operatives connected to a DP front group called the Center for American Progress (CAP). In other words, it’s about as authentic as Donald Trump’s hair piece.

Viscaria, product of 20,000 evolution
Viscaria, product of 20,000 evolution
4 years ago

I’m not sure I understand how being linked to political operatives would make something inauthentic, assuming you, Alan Smithee, are not making things up. I’m not being snarky. I really don’t get it.

tim gueguen
4 years ago

Some of you may be familiar with Kevin O’Leary. The Canadian businessman has been on ABC’s reality series Shark Tank since 2009, and has appeared on Canadian TV shows, including the now defunct Lang and O’Leary Exchange on CBC’s 24 hour news channel, and the reality business show Dragon’s Den. He’s been compared to Donald Trump, and is following in Trump’s footsteps, currently running for the leadership of Canada’s Conservative Party.

Today he made a misstep, although how serious a one remains to be seen. He posted a video of himself firing various weapons, including a machine gun, on his Facebook page. It appeared not long before the funeral service began of three victims from the Quebec mosque shooting. It was quickly pulled. Apparently O’Leary isn’t seen as being pro-gun enough in some circles, and wanted to correct the idea.
http://globalnews.ca/news/3223403/kevin-oleary-gun-video-called-dumb-and-insensitive-on-day-of-funeral/

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

@AlanSmithee, hi! welcome to WHTM. If you would like a welcome basket, they are linked on the right. Full of scented candles! The scent is “Misandristic Pine Chair” this month I think.

Indivisible is a DNC astroturf organization run by DP beltway political operatives connected to a DP front group called the Center for American Progress (CAP). In other words, it’s about as authentic as Donald Trump’s hair piece.

… so?

I mean, sure, I’ll buy it – the DNC and the Democrats are pumping money into an organization that funds popular opposition to Trump. What exactly about that sentence is bad? It would be an indication that there are elements in the DNC that want to fight for democracy in the United States instead of surrendering outright. They’ve been called Justice Democrats, which is a term I adore. Even if the funding is coming from lobbyists, it still represents a modicum of vertebral integrity. Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth, as they say.

This is the attitude that got Trump into the White House, @AlanSmithee, this perfect-solution-or-nothing approach. If the DNC /Democratic Party want to help the fight against Trump and the carnage he’s bringing to America, we take the help.

Peter F. King
4 years ago

Fuck you, fuck George Soros, and fuck your shitty globalist agenda.

serrana
serrana
4 years ago

A good number of the Indivisible groups near me (one of which I joined – thanks, David!) are sponsored by UU churches. Plz explain how an astroturf organization infiltrates several churches in Texas

tim gueguen
4 years ago

serrana, I’m surprised he didn’t mention George “He’s everywhere!” Soros. Some people are convinced Soros paid a whole bunch of people to attend the Women’s Marches. Because apparently Soros has unlimited funds o’ evil to throw around.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
4 years ago

Is that the same “globalist agenda” Roosh was talking about a few posts back?

Rhuu
Rhuu
4 years ago

@tim gueguen: I don’t know if Peter F. King’s comment was posted when you posted yours, but the very eloquent Peter has indeed made that connection.

Honestly though, what is a globalist agenda? *googles, does not click the first news link that is a bitefart article thank you very much google*

oh, okay, it is about things passing between borders easily.

But on another topic… Is there an add-on I can get from firefox that would block bitefart from ever showing up in my results? I was looking at the parental controls, but I would like everything to show up except for that site.

Surely there has to be a way!

Also @tim gueguen: I am wondering how O’Leary is going to do. He never seemed to get any deals on Dragon’s Den, because he was always out for number one. I know everyone on there is about a good deal, but it felt like his deals were more screwing the entrepreneurs than the others.

(Though I won’t discount him getting the leadership position, since so many people know his name. After all, Trump got elected.)

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

It’s weird how much of the right thinks anyone is only ever progressive because of George Soros brainwashing.

Soros is 86 years old. I just checked. He’s got a maximum of about 20 years left alive. And that’s unlikely. It’s probably more like 1-10 years. Who are they going to blame us on after Soros dies?

I feel kind of squicky writing that because I’m uncomfortable with people speculating about when other people are going to die. But I don’t know how else to make the point I want to make. At least not with my brain being tired from lack of sleep all week.

Speaking of squicky. I’m really tired of seeing the trailer for the next 50 Shades movie. I don’t even watch all that much TV. I watch most things online. But every time I do watch TV, that damn thing plays on every commercial break. It’s not coming out for another two weeks. They’re really pushing that mess hard. Ick. Ick. Ick.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
4 years ago

I’ll add a few more “icks” to the pile here. The whole 50 Shades franchise annoys me on so many levels, not least because the author doesn’t seem to understand why consent is important.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
4 years ago

@Peter No F. King pls k thx
You didn’t bother to put your nazi dog whistles away.

Middle Aged White Guy
4 years ago

@Scildfreja

I mean, sure, I’ll buy it – the DNC and the Democrats are pumping money into an organization that funds popular opposition to Trump. What exactly about that sentence is bad? It would be an indication that there are elements in the DNC that want to fight for democracy in the United States instead of surrendering outright. They’ve been called Justice Democrats, which is a term I adore. Even if the funding is coming from lobbyists, it still represents a modicum of vertebral integrity. Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth, as they say.

I agree. That’s basically what I was trying (so poorly) to say in my original post about “Standing Together”, that I’m very afraid of people on the Left splintering over this or that specific concern.

How is “lobbyist” in and of itself bad? If we were able to pool our money so that, say, one of the lead bloggers here could spend full time as an advocate, doesn’t that make them a lobbyist?

It’s WHAT you lobby for, not that you are paid to do it.

Middle Aged White Guy
4 years ago

This is the attitude that got Trump into the White House, @AlanSmithee, this perfect-solution-or-nothing approach.

@Scildfredja

Yes, yes, YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Preach it from the mountain tops! Amen!

(Can we get you to speak at every left leaning gathering in the nation over the next 4 years?………)

Falconer
Falconer
4 years ago

There’s no group in my town, but there’s one in my county, just up the way. Hmmm.

@AlanSmithee, Lord Dampnut’s doctor done did said that he takes a small dose of a prostate drug to promote hair growth. We can trust the man. He’s a doctor. He’s given L.D. a clean bill of health (by saying he probably won’t drop dead in the Lincoln Bedroom).

@Peter F. King, wow, you sure did tell us. I’m going to hang it all up, now. Yup. Can’t argue with such scintillating verbal gymnastics.

Abars01
Abars01
4 years ago

Anything I, an Australian, can do in the meantime until this meeting on Sunday? I’ve already attended the women’s march, asked Turnbull to condemn the ban, and rang and thanked my MP for condemning the ban, but now, since it doesn’t look like there’s any follow-up march on Saturday, any airport protests in Australia, or any Indivisible chapters in Australia, I’m not sure what to do next. I’m still dubious about writing to the Australian ambassador to the US, the Queen, and Obama/Clinton/Sanders – personally, I think I’ll pass that up.

Lord Pabu
Lord Pabu
4 years ago

I just joined a group in my voting district! My homework tonight is going to be a more thorough investigation of their website and a plan concerning which events I can routinely be a part of.

mildlymagnificent
mildlymagnificent
4 years ago

I’m duplicating this from the other thread. It’s all worth it!!

Saw this very encouraging piece from Rachel Maddow yesterday.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/anti-trump-backlash-rapidly-outpacing-tea-party-in-its-prime-868179523728

Exemplified by this even more encouraging item in The Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/feb/02/republican-selling-public-lands-bill-withdraw-jason-chaffetz

Way to go, chumps! Offer legislation that unites the environmentalists and the huntin’-fishin’-shootin’ crowd in opposing you. Now see how far you get with trying to turn public land into private profit.

occasional reader
occasional reader
4 years ago

Hello.

> weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Who are they going to blame us on after Soros dies?

Maybe Sauron ? Or any Saurus (after all, they are often the same who think there is something like a “reptilian” conspiracy, so…) ? In all case, something with a close spelling, in order to make the shift in their algorithms as short as possible…

Have a nice day.

Weird (Don't Mourn, ORGANIZE!!) Eddie
Weird (Don't Mourn, ORGANIZE!!) Eddie
4 years ago

re: George Soros

I’ve posted this before, Soros represents the “Emmanual Goldstein” character (see Orwell’s 1984). He’s the one the Alternate Reality Media blames for everything that looks like resistance to their Doublespeak/Doublethink.

And @Peter F. King, if you aren’t familiar with the Alternate Reality Media, Google Kellyanne Conway AND Bowling Green Massacre.

Everyone else, gird thy loins for the upcoming onslaught of “Bowling Green Massacre Coverup” right-wing blather.

Jesalin
Jesalin
4 years ago

@Falconer

Lord Dampnut’s doctor done did said that he takes a small dose of a prostate drug to promote hair growth. We can trust the man. He’s a doctor. He’s given L.D. a clean bill of health (by saying he probably won’t drop dead in the Lincoln Bedroom).

He takes a T(estosterone) Blocker? Seriously? I’m guessing Spiro, since Androcur isn’t used in the US.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

@MAWG,

Y-you want me to speak? Like, uh, like in public?

http://media.giphy.com/media/kNrxGZ5ch8dbi/giphy.gif

We all know that the Left has a problem with purity tests (Though the Tea Party movement showed us that it happens in the Right too). It was more that it’s the first thing you said, and you came in with the perfect solution that got you your bad reaction there.

The issue is that, well, we don’t necessarily want a “big tent” that will let anyone in. The Big GOP Tent let in frickin’ Nazis after all. There’s no easy solution to the divisiveness in the Left (or either side). Fortunately, this current problem is big enough that it’s galvanizing lots of resistance all over.

The difference I suppose is that the Democratic Party isn’t asking us to sacrifice our ideals or positions to contribute – they’re just contributing. Whereas most pleas for unity involve sacrificing ones’ position. If the DP were contributing but were also saying “We will contribute, but only if you agree to help dismantle healthcare” or something stupid, we’d say helll no. That isn’t happening. They’re just helping. So, good!

And we can still critique them, too – and we should. The Democratic Party deserves a lot of white-hot anger, even if they’re finally doing the right thing. Saving the soul of their party may have cost the soul of America, and has certainly cost actual human lives and suffering. That can’t be forgotten. But they’re pulling in the right direction now, so – great, keep pulling. Pull harder, you bastards, you owe us that at least.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

@Peter F King,

Fuck you, fuck George Soros, and fuck your shitty globalist agenda.

Fuck you, King, your aspirations in your name,
Fuck your addle-headed red-string-on-corkboard conspiracies.
Who the fuck’s George Soros? your proof is fuckin’ lame.
It’s just anti-semite, anti-human black-smoke-from-smokestack degeneracies.
The fuck’s a globalist agenda? Is that where they put you in hobbit homes?
Or when Obama takes your guns? The UN holds all the worlds’ loans?
Talk plain, you fuckin’ puke, stop with the fuckin’ buzz-words.
So we can see your hate laid bare, so we can see your sickly soul.
You talk like you wear brown shirts, you shit, you sound absurd,
put on your fuckin’ jack-boots already, we can all see that that’s your actual goal.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

Fuck you, fuck George Soros, and fuck your shitty globalist agenda.

Question (not for Generic Troll #98712, just using him as a jumping-off point).

… Who is George Soros, anyway? I’ve literally never heard of the guy outside of right-wing scream-rants. I mean, I’ve looked him up on Wiki and all, but as far as I can tell he’s just a standard-issue stock market trader with no ties to the government or the media, not exactly High Lord Liberal Conspiracy… So, what, did they just pull his name out of a hat full of random Jewish people?

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

I honestly have no idea either. Other than what you’ve said; that he’s a Jewish businessman. That’s really all it takes with these assholes, though. A convenient peg to wrap the string around.

I do notice that they’re not worried about the Koch brothers and their blatant, obvious, documented ultracapitalist agenda, though. They’re instead going for the secret Jewish conspiracy. So, a double dollop of terrible. Fuck these guys, really. Someone really needs to figure out how to counteract crank magnetism.

Middle Aged White Guy
4 years ago

@Scildfreja

Y-you want me to speak? Like, uh, like in public?

Funny thing is, that’s what I DO, but not using MY words.

Anyway, always appreciate your thoughts. As for “what go me in trouble”, I’ve learned a lot from reading the board here. But I’ll emphasize again that I wasn’t trying to share THE PERFECT solution, just voicing my thoughts. Knowing what I know now, did it come across as abrasive and commanding, yes, but certainly wasn’t intended that way.

I’ve done a lot of soul searching since I came on this board, learned a lot…. really thought about that “Privilege” thing. Went from “WTF???” to “Omigosh, I’m a blind idiot”.

But now I’m in the middle, that there’s something to be said on all sides. You see, I’m just used to being in situations where ALL voices are welcome, and none are considered superior to another. Some here may call that “privileged”, that I’ve never known what it’s like to be squelched. Fair enough.

But there’s a difference between thinking all voices, including mine, are welcome… and me thinking mine is the superior voice. THAT’S what I kept going on about. NOT that I was overly assertive in the way I spoke, which I was… and knowing what I know now, I certainly came across as insensitive.

I was totally open to hearing that, kept asking “What did I do?”, and trying to own my chit. I WANTED to know. But continually being told “You think this, you think that”, didn’t help me correct the behavior.

You, and I think Axe (others?) gave me a less accusatory response that allowed me to better listen to the points being made, and I thank you for that.

***************************************************

As to “big tent”. Hell, be as divisive as we want on the Left. Fight for every issue dear to whoever’s heart. But VOTE as a block, or we’re all dead.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

Something from Wiki I missed before: He’s a Holocaust survivor.

… I think that answers my question, doesn’t it.

Welp, I’m off to stand under the shower for a thousand years.

Middle Aged White Guy
4 years ago

Who is George Soros, anyway?

He’s a Wall Street god, who happens to be Jewish.

Most famously, bet so heavily against the British Pound back in the day (80s?) that the government had to devalue the currency.

He is the best correlation to the Koch’s, but only in that he heavily funds for liberal agendas….. unlike the Koch’s, I don’t see him attempting to be a puppet master, or build the world for his personal financial self interest.

Middle Aged White Guy
4 years ago

FUUUUUUUUUUUUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKK – My post to Scild wasn’t intended to move this board to be about me.

Wanted to share a personalized thought, in case it generally applied.

(… sheepishly moving to take my seat in the back again…)

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

Soros sort of came to prominence (a bit) in the UK when the government made a cock-up in regards to our entry into the ERM and he spotted that. As did just about everybody except the actual Treasury.

He made fair bit of money shorting Sterling; which he then gave to charitable causes.

He’s a weird choice as a figurehead for a zionist conspiracy. He’s sympathetic to the Palestinian people and critical of Israeli policy. He’s actually been accused of anti-Semitism!

It might just be that he’s a bit of a lefty in some regards (he was highly critical of Bush) that outrages the far right perhaps!

ETA; ninja’d!

Weird (Don't Mourn, ORGANIZE!!) Eddie
Weird (Don't Mourn, ORGANIZE!!) Eddie
4 years ago

re: Soros (again)

I’d never heard of him until recently, either. The trumpoids I know hate on him because he donates to Planned Parenthood (full disclosure, I have no idea if he actually DOES, but that’s what my coworkers say), which means, in teh Alt-Reality-Speak, he’s PAYING for EVERY ABORTION EVER PERFORMED… betcha didn’t know THAT, didja!?!?!

His name came up in the last conversation we had, after the inaugur-retch-ion, when I learned that he paid all the people who demonstrated $15 an hour. I remember asking… “do you really believe that” … “yup, there was a Craigs-List ad!!” … “… so… logistically speaking, how ya suppose this is all handled… the demonstrators turn in time cards???”… *crickets*

Haven’t been any more conversations.

Middle Aged White Guy
4 years ago

@Weird Eddie

IF (if, if, if, if) Soros or those on the left hire people to demonstrate or show support, it’s truly an abomination.

If someone like, oh, let’s just say Trump, does it… it’s “shrewd marketing”, proving their business genius.

Dalillama, Shepherd of Demonic Crocodiles
Dalillama, Shepherd of Demonic Crocodiles
4 years ago

@Scildfreja

This is the attitude that got Trump into the White House, @AlanSmithee, this perfect-solution-or-nothing approach.

No, the attitude that got Trump into the White House is naked white supremacy, which has been a problem on the right as well as what passes for a left in this benighted country since it’s earliest inception. That and the idea that politics is just a bunch of disconnected opinions, all as valid as any other, which opinion links back to the previous, since it’s a product of enormous privilege and leads to a lack of examination of the system.

@SFHC

So, what, did they just pull his name out of a hat full of random Jewish people?

They looked for a rich Jewish person who openly donated to Democratic PACs, found that Soros met these criteria, and also said nasty things about the right in public a fair amount, and elevated him to the peak of their conspiracy theory about cultural Marxism blah blah blah blah….

@Alan Robertshaw
I’d call him a milquetoast centrist; he’s about as far left as the DNC. The Repubs just have a tendency to call anyone left of Jefferson Davis a dirty commie.

@MAWG

But now I’m in the middle, that there’s something to be said on all sides. You see, I’m just used to being in situations where ALL voices are welcome, and none are considered superior to another.

I hate to disillusion you again, old bean, but I can absolutely guarantee that this is not the case. Because frankly, there is no such place in the U.S., and of the spaces that approach that, few of them include cishet white guys. (Not ripping into you, I used to believe that shit too, but it’s bullshit; race aside, try not being a guy for a while and see what it does to that belief. I say this having tried being a guy for quite a while, I do know what the other side’s like.)

@Weird Eddie

“yup, there was a Craigs-List ad!!” … “… so… logistically speaking, how ya suppose this is all handled… the demonstrators turn in time cards???”… *crickets*

An Android app hooked up to their GPS location, easy. That’s one of the things that bugs me so much about these assholes: They’re not even any fucking good at composing wild conspiracies! I can come up with more internally consistent stuff half asleep and all the way drunk!

numerobis
numerobis
4 years ago

Soros has been a prominent centre-left globalist for quite a while now. I remember reading his texts in NYRB in the late 1990s.

Basically he is a big believer in capitalism and free markets and freedom of movement, with a strong welfare state to ensure social mobility.

This makes him a huge enemy to the rentier class — he’s a traitor to them.

Plus, he’s a successful Jewish banker who lied his way through the holocaust and saved other jews as well, which makes him one of the worst enemies of the nazis. Who are allied with the rentiers.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

@Dalillama, you’re right in that, of course. The ‘divisiveness’ we see is a masking layer that comes from the fact that they’re unwilling to accept the fact that they might be a wee bit racist or sexist. Better to support the fascist that says “no, you’re a good person, white supremacy isn’t *that* bad,” than the person that says “we all have to try to be better.” Thanks for clarifying that distinction. Does that fit more with your perspective of things?

@MAWG, Dalillama said it one way, I’ll say it another (as seems to be a common thing!)

You see, I’m just used to being in situations where ALL voices are welcome, and none are considered superior to another.

Those spaces where it feels to you that all voices are welcome and are equal? Those are the spaces where the middle-aged-white-male is most dominant. They feel so comfortable because dissenting voices have given up on trying to be heard. The non-middle-aged-white-male voices that do speak up there have worked hard to conform to that arena, and have been scrubbed clean of other perspectives.

I’m of course talking in general there, but that’s my experience. If you want an eye opener, buy a stopwatch and have someone time how long women speak versus how long men speak. This has been studied before, and it’s found that men will complain about women “dominating a conversation” at around the 30% mark. That is, women taking up 30% of speaking time, men taking up 70%.

That bias exists in the “all voices are welcome” space you’re talking about; many others do as well. A famous one is how often men interrupt women, or white people interrupt minorities. Count the number of times women are allowed to complete their statements without being interrupted by a man. You may be surprised.

Next time you’re in that space, bring this information with you, and watch the faces of minorities and women. They may communicate things to you that you didn’t see before.

Dalillama, Shepherd of Demonic Crocodiles
Dalillama, Shepherd of Demonic Crocodiles
4 years ago

@Numerobis

This makes him a huge enemy to the rentier class — he’s a traitor to them.

Which is odd, because his scheme would work out a lot better for them in the long run than theirs will. I mean, I can see that while still thinking we’d all be better off if the lot of them were dispossessed and possibly exiled to Mars, I have never been able to figure out why they don’t catch on.

OK, that’s a lie, I have, I just can’t really comprehend the answer, which is as follows: they really are truly colossal assholes, malevolent sadists of the worst sort. They don’t actually care about money or luxuries, they care about having money and luxuries while everyone else grubs for scraps and grovels to them for whatever pennies they deign to throw. It’s not about how much they have, it’s about how much the poor (and especially brown) don’t have, and what humiliation and pain they can be forced to undergo to eke out a bare living. It’s repulsive, it’s appalling, and it’s the only explanation that makes a lick of sense that I’ve ever seen.

Middle Aged White Guy
4 years ago

@Dalillama

Because frankly, there is no such place in the U.S., and of the spaces that approach that, few of them include cishet white guys.

I hear how it’s been in your experience, I was speaking only of mine, where I was coming from.

Challenged myself to think on it, and yep, that’s been the case. It’s the way I view the world should be, and whether by chance or luck or subconscious choice those kinds of groups have pretty much what I’ve been around. Men, women, str8, gay, whatever religion or not…… whatever… all voices have been welcome, none preferred due to “group” identity.

When I do come across any kind of exclusionary dynamic, I’m outa there, so I haven’t experienced that nearly as much. Just talking for my own experience, has nothing to do with whether I’m black, white, man, woman, whatever. Just me.

I’m being as in integrity as I can be, or my comments would be pointless. Please don’t tell me what places I’ve experienced in the US, cause you ain’t me.

************************

That said, I’m REALLY REALLY REALLY learning from the people here how, for many others, it’s been massively different. Don’t know that it really registered before HOW different those experiences have been, from the one I just expect and take as “normal”.

Zardeenah
Zardeenah
4 years ago

Long time lurker here, trying to spread the word about my first activist project!

I’m planning to print and hand deliver this petition to Pelosi’s
office during the 2/10 federal workers’ rally in San Fransisco! Help spread the word – I’d like to make it impressive!

All welcome to sign: she represents the entire Democratic majority in the House also.

Don’t want to do change.org? I’ll be collecting physical signatures in SF at #nobannowall on 2/4, the rally at Feinstein’s house on 2/5, and the federal workers’ rally on 2/10: look for the sparkly “liberal snowflake avalanche” sign!

https://www.change.org/p/nancy-pelosi-nancy-pelosi-lead-democrats-to-obstruct-complete-trump-agenda?recruiter=626093912&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_term=mob-xs-no_src-no_msg

Dalillama, Shepherd of Demonic Crocodiles
Dalillama, Shepherd of Demonic Crocodiles
4 years ago

@Scildfreja

The ‘divisiveness’ we see is a masking layer that comes from the fact that they’re unwilling to accept the fact that they might be a wee bit racist or sexist.

Basically, yes. A lot of schisms in the left happen when one side says ‘no more bigotry’ and the other says ‘yeah, definitely, but this bigotry is still ok, right?”

Better to support the fascist that says “no, you’re a good person, white supremacy isn’t *that* bad,” than the person that says “we all have to try to be better.” Thanks for clarifying that distinction. Does that fit more with your perspective of things?

As usual, you’re far more charitable than I in assuming motivation, but allowing for that, yes.

@MAWG
Read over what Scildfreja said again. Seriously. Your experience of those spaces has been very different from that of a queer person (once again, not hypothetical for me; spaces where I’ve had a wife and spaces where I’ve had a husband have treated me quite differently), or a femme person (see my comments above), or a PoC. You believe that those spaces were what you think they are, because you want to think well of those spaces. And they probably were good spaces, as far as they went. But the reality is that in our culture, in our society, in our time and place upon the earth, any space that does not explicitly tell people who are male, who are straight, who are white, who are cis, and especially who are all of the above to sit down and shut up for a while is not a space where all voices will be equally heard. (Alternately, a space where everyone in it is in roughly the same place, privilege wise. Which usually means one where there aren’t any cishet white guys at all).

Middle Aged White Guy
4 years ago

@Scild

dissenting voices have given up on trying to be heard.

That, and basically your whole post…… fair enough, valid comments.
And I’d be ridiculous to not agree with the group dynamic (and such) studies you’ve referred to.

Again, I was rebutting ONLY the absolutism with which Dalli spoke: “NO such places”. I wouldn’t begin to argue with what you wrote.

Again, just how it’s been for me, personally. I’m going down the mental list right now, and time and again, in organizations or groups that I’ve generally experienced, non Ciscet Males are either often the leaders, and/or are just as active and vocal as Ciscet Males.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
4 years ago

@Dalil
I also have to add in the Democratic weakness of never fighting, even when they had the clear advantage. They could have banned guns if they wanted to, they could have fought as much if not more than the tea party, medicare and much more when they had power and bring it all to the media to paint the GOP in a bad light, but no they don’t. They’d rather not, even when they could have said “the gop is going against the will of the people” which was a verifiable fact, because politeness > wins to them.

Middle Aged White Guy
4 years ago

@MAWG
Read over what Scildfreja said again. Seriously. Your experience of those spaces has been very different from that of a queer person (once again, not hypothetical for me; spaces where I’ve had a wife and spaces where I’ve had a husband have treated me quite differently), or a femme person (see my comments above), or a PoC. You believe that those spaces were what you think they are, because you want to think well of those spaces. And they probably were good spaces, as far as they went. But the reality is that in our culture, in our society, in our time and place upon the earth, any space that does not explicitly tell people who are male, who are straight, who are white, who are cis, and especially who are all of the above to sit down and shut up for a while is not a space where all voices will be equally heard. (Alternately, a space where everyone in it is in roughly the same place, privilege wise. Which usually means one where there aren’t any cishet white guys at all).

@Dali

My just previous came was being written as you posted, hadn’t seen this last until just now.

Totally with you on the difference between MY perception and the reality. So maybe I should have said “SEEMS TO ME that all voices are welcome”, rather than overtly have said they are?

Good call by you on that.

I do know (in fairness to what I’m saying), that it’s not only the perception that I had, but a not uncommon dynamic for any exclusion to be called out among my friends and associates. Happened just the other day, when someone made a joke that was a microaggression. EVERYONE, including ciscet white males jumped on it. Heck, that’s why I was so taken aback on this board initially…. it’s not my experience to have people OVERTLY squelched.

Again, if in any way it seems I’m rebutting the dynamic you and others experience, in NO WAY do I mean to be doing that.

Middle Aged White Guy
4 years ago

Hey, @Dali?

If I’m out of line to even be here, tell me?

I wonder if people want this board more for sharing among friends, and not to be used as an open forum for strangers. If so, I don’t want to be rude, and impose myself onto that.

Dalillama: Shepherd of Demonic Crocodiles.
Dalillama: Shepherd of Demonic Crocodiles.
4 years ago

@Ooglyboggles

hey could have banned guns if they wanted to, they could have fought as much if not more than the tea party, medicare and much more when they had power and bring it all to the media to paint the GOP in a bad light, but no they don’t. They’d rather not, even when they could have said “the gop is going against the will of the people” which was a verifiable fact, because politeness > wins to them.

It’s not that they value politeness excessively per se. It’s that they don’t actually disagree very much. (They, in this case, referring to the DNC and Democratic party apparatus rather than necessarily to Democratic voters overall, though there are plenty of them who’re the same). Which is to say that they don’t actually object to economic inequality or white supremacy, they just object to them, personally, having to see or acknowledge the suffering it causes (which is where they differ from the Right, who revel in watching their victims suffer). So they support amelioratjng the worst effectsof capitalism in their local area (exported suffering is still just fine) until they don’t have to see homeless encampments or news specials about mass starvation in their country. And if that means mass murder, well, just don’t tell them how it happened and they’re good.

@MAWG
Due to changes in the internet (which I can’t fully explainm but it appears to be the case) there’s been a tendency for comments sections to kind of fossilize, and not attract new commenters, but WHTM has less of that than a lotta places. You’re welcome in, but like anywhere, you gotta take local norms into account if you wanna be part of the community. When in Rome type of thing. You’re doin a pretty decent job so far, especially from a pretty rocky start. I’m also a thoroughgoing curmudgeon, so keep that in mind.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
4 years ago

@Dali
Well that’s even worse, because the former would at least have some fucked form of manners, this is political sweeping the people under the rug. And don’t get me started on the dems who have consistently shown to be GOP in dem skin with how often they crossed party lines. Oh well as long as they don’t piss off their corporate bosses why should they care?

Middle Aged White Guy
4 years ago

@Dali

I’m also a thoroughgoing curmudgeon

No, really? Hadn’t noticed. (would insert wink emoji I if knew how).

****************************************************

My thing is that my “Overly generalized and/or absolutist statement” detector is stuck on high alert, so we might have some fun, you and I.

Middle Aged White Guy
4 years ago

@Dali

which is where they differ from the Right, who revel in watching their victims suffer

Uh, like that one? I’ll have to learn to filter the difference (if any) between you making a serious, literal point… or you kind of just letting off stream.

I’ll have to stifle for a while till I figure that out.

Dalillama, Shepherd of Demonic Crocodiles
Dalillama, Shepherd of Demonic Crocodiles
4 years ago

@MAWG

(would insert wink emoji I if knew how).

Semicolon followed by left parenthesis

I’ll have to learn to filter the difference (if any) between you making a serious, literal point

That was a serious, literal point. Fascists like seeing people suffer. They talk about it all the time. Conservatives are proto-fascists. At best. They also like to see people suffer. They talk about it all the time. Listen to Fox News. Listen to Richard Spencer. Listen to the CEO of Pizza hut. They like seeing us suffer, and they are willing to forgo profits and even take losses if they can make us suffer more.

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