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empathy deficit entitled babies literal nazis men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA paul elam

Men’s Rights leader: Quit whining about the Holocaust, Anne Frank Center!

Paul Elam: Holocaust, schmalocaust!

Here’s an amazing little Twitter exchange:

Yep, that’s right. The weird uncle of the Men’s Rights movement online is criticizing the Anne Frank Center for “whining” about the HOLOCAUST.

Apparently the murder of millions pales in comparison to the truly important issues faced by men today, like the problem of women being a bunch of “c–ts.”

NOTICE TO EXTREMELY LITERAL MINDED READERS: That last sentence contains sarcasm.

Thanks to TakedownMRAs on Twitter for catching this one and grabbing the screenshots.

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kupo
kupo
4 years ago

I think they’re trying to say you don’t have privilege if you’ve never owned slaves. Or maybe both privilege and racism.

EJ (The Orphic Lizard)

I read it as “if anyone says anything bad about white men in the past then they’re also saying it about every single currently-living white man.”

Viscaria, product of 20,000 evolution
Viscaria, product of 20,000 evolution
4 years ago

Paul Elam with A Voice For (a very limited subset of) Men.

I was living with my racist uncle when I was dating a guy whose ancestry was half Chinese and half Scottish. I’m guessing my uncle thought he was white, though, judging by the appalling and completely unprompted tirade he offered one night at the dinner table on the subject of how you just can’t trust Asians. Cheating is just a part of their culture. I should have said something to get him to shut up, but I didn’t.

LindsayIrene
4 years ago

@ Dalillama

Ferrets with fur loss can look rather unholy. Not as freaky as bald bears, though.

http://i.imgur.com/1wyciar.jpg

LindsayIrene
4 years ago

Gee, it looks like Judgy Bitch is feeling neglected, too. What with so many people saying assholish things these days, you have to work hard at being despicable enough to stand out in the crowd.

Laugher at Bigots, Mincing Betaboy

That bald bear looks like a fantasy creature.

MillenniumCrow
MillenniumCrow
4 years ago

On a somewhat related note, here’s someone who proposes to thin the Twitter Nazi crowd a bit:

http://www.change.org/p/500-nazi-scalps

From the petition description:

Dear Twitter,

Short version:

You have a Nazi problem. We have a Nazi solution.

We’ve gathered the top 500 Nazi and white supremacist accounts on Twitter. We listed them. We’d like them gone. We’ll be checking in weekly to see the progress to goal.

You started kicking Nazis off Twitter. It’s your policy and it’s a good idea. Profiting off high engagement users is a bad look when they’re Nazis.

We’re here to make sure you finish what you started.

Weatherwax
Weatherwax
4 years ago

@ LindsayIrene

And then there’s cats, mid-bath. No one has yet convinced me they aren’t the inspiration for Gremlins (before and after).

Falconer
Falconer
4 years ago

That naked bear makes my twitch muscles scream “Yao guai!!”

Falconer
Falconer
4 years ago

“You haven’t owned a slave, therefore you have in no way profited from slavery! Also if black people are economically struggling, they’ve had 150 years to make something of themselves!”

Judas Peckerwood
Judas Peckerwood
4 years ago

That bald bear looks like a fantasy creature.

It looks like the result of a misguided romantic coupling of an elephant and a rat.

Conan the Librarian
Conan the Librarian
4 years ago

I presume Elam said this because these Jewish groups dared criticize the Great Leader for whining that he was being victimized like people were in Nazi Germany. How appropriate, then, that he accused those groups of “whining “. In Elam’s world, whingeing is a privilege allotted only to Great Men, like himself, and like Trump.

Naira
Naira
4 years ago

I’m honestly not sure if I have a racist uncle or not. My family hasn’t spoken to one on my mom’s side and one on my dad’s side for…decades? At least. I’m sure that the last time I saw my paternal uncle was at least 20 years ago.

My maternal uncle let us know that he was okay after Katrina, since they were hit (not badly, just on the edges of the storm). So, I haven’t heard from him in coming on to 10 years.

Because of the time and never having known them well in any case, I couldn’t say if they’re racist or not.

My stand-in racist uncle is a man I work with. I told him NOT to say that black people, as a group, were more emotional than other people. My boss had to tell him last week that just because an applicant is Christian doesn’t mean she’s necessarily good, so kindly call her friggin’ references.

Seriously…this was a 60-something year old man gushing over this girl’s very, very Christian resume–Christian school, parents on the school board, extra-curricular activities, the whole nine yards. Aside from the fact that he’s heaping praise on a girl he’s never met, it was really uncomfortable for me to listen to him going on and on with regards to her Christianity, with regards to hiring. (I am Jewish)

Bina
4 years ago

Change.org petition signed and shared. I’ve made Nazi scalps my one and only New Year’s resolution…

Also:

“You haven’t owned a slave, therefore you have in no way profited from slavery! Also if black people are economically struggling, they’ve had 150 years to make something of themselves!”

…and the corollary to this is that for all of those 150 years, they’ve had Whitey trying to slap those ol’ chains right back on, in the form of Jim Crow, the KKK, segregation, the CIA’s Iran-Contra crack cocaine importation scam, Fred Drumpf’s whites-only slumlording, and so-called “White Flight”. Every time a black person somewhere has tried to do something to make sure their people get some justice or something else nice, some white mofo has seen to it that their struggle was as difficult as possible. And in the case of many a civil rights leader, that it ended in beatings, arrests, FBI spying and evidence-planting, gross defamation…and if they didn’t give up, assassination.

One doesn’t have to have owned slaves or had ancestors who did in order to recognize that black people are still far worse off after all this time, and that this is the product of white people’s design. One has only to open one’s eyes and LOOK…which the spectacularly unobservant Judgy Andrea has yet to do.

Podkayne Lives (Effortless Chicken)
Podkayne Lives (Effortless Chicken)
4 years ago

At Thanksgiving, he wrote an article for the church bulletin that explained that the first Thanksgiving was a celebration of the fact that the Puritans no longer lived and worked communally. I was 13 and thought, Hmm. If only you had some proof of this.

“We are gathered together to praise the Lord that we shall no longer have to gather together. Ever. As of the time the last piece of venison clears this table, I never want to see any of you again. Especially Amos Hopkins.”

vaiyt
vaiyt
4 years ago

I’m going to be sincere here and say that Twitter will never give two shits about its Nazi problem as long as there’s people okay with selling shit to Nazis through Twitter. Remember, users of social networks are the product, not the consumers.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@Alan

I wonder if Elam is particularly infuriated with the Anne Frank Centre because it’s set up to honour the memory of a girl.

And a particularly brave and inspirational one at that.

Good point.

I’m not even going to bother with the wondering part.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@MilleniumCrow

Signed. Thanks!

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@PaganReader
Thanks for that link.

Paul Elam, shove over. Judgy Bitch/Andrea Hardie needs attention!

This is her lovely tweet:

I’d be okay with it if I was actually allowed to own a slave. Housework sucks.

It puts me in mind of the guys I went to school with who would say, “A wife would be great. Someone to cook and clean. Ha, ha, ha!”

The alt-right likes to talk about the left’s “virtue signaling.” But they do the same thing, only constantly. It’s just that in their world, a claim of virtue = a claim of power. Which is exactly what the loathsome Ms. Hardie is doing:

Ha, ha, African Americans! To the best of my knowledge, my ancestors were never enslaved. If you are an African American, your ancestors almost surely were! Therefore I will mock you. You’ve been mocked before for your ancestry, so this will surely sting! I wish you all the worst!

Moocow
4 years ago

Kinda refreshing to see Paul Elam’s face. Like when the season 3 villain has just unleashed chaos and the season 1 villain is just kinda there trying desperately hard to get noticed.

So I have a request for the various people who enjoy debating over feminism (TL;DR I need resources to refute evo psych). I’ve just spent an embarrassing amount of time locked in verbal jousting all over the internet this week. I decided (in my infinite wisdom) to call out casual sexism on Reddit. It was very tame, just someone saying Trump was acting like a 12 year old girl. I was like “can we not” and they were like “fair enough”. Foolishly I thought that’d be the end of that.

Over the next few hours, my comment got hundreds of upvotes, and suddenly I was barraged by 8 simultaneous arguments over feminism. Some tried to categorize my critique as OUTRAGE, one made the laughable argument that “guys and girls get shit on just as much”, and a few decided to refuse to read my post while also telling me that I was ‘blinding myself’ or some shit. It was ridiculous. Fortunately, a lot of people were happy that I called it out and defended my views which was encouraging.

Anyhow, long story short I’ve still got one persistent little STEMRATIONAL type who finally decided to cough up his evidence and it’s a whole bunch of fucking evo psych because of course it is.

Anyone got some good “evo psych debunked” links or good reputable science that flies completely against evo psych nonsense? It’s literally the ordinary bullshit but specifically “girls are proven to like dolls; boys proven to like trucks”, “men are naturally more aggressive” and “men are better at spacial reasoning”

Here are a few of the links he provided to prove his ‘rationalstem’ assertion that men and women are just kinda different:

http://homepages.rpi.edu/~verwyc/oh14.htm
http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/men-more-violent1.htm
http://www.livescience.com/22677-girls-dolls-boys-toy-trucks.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1266364/Why-girls-naturally-drawn-dolls-soon-crawl.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200804/why-do-boys-and-girls-prefer-different-toys
https://www.quora.com/Are-men-better-at-math-and-science-than-women-or-the-reverse (The ‘best’ answer has a tedious amount of links)

Yes, one of those links is the daily mail. I couldn’t fucking believe it. I’m issuing double internet points to anyone who has a rebuttal specifically of the daily fail.

Laugher at Bigots, Mincing Betaboy

Just for the hell of it, I clicked on the Psychology Today article. Its author is Satoshi Kanazawa, who has also written an article entitled “Why Are Black Women Less Physically Attractive Than Other Women?”. For that his PT blog, “The Scientific Fundamentalist”, was shut down. Naturally, he has seen much opposition from the scientific community, which he naturally attributes to “political correctness” and “censorship”. The bottom line is, he is not very credible.

Moocow
4 years ago

@Laugher at Bigots

Well, as they say in French, Ça commence bien!

@Falconer

Melee character here, my reaction is “Mmmmm, delicious attack buff”

occasional reader
occasional reader
4 years ago

Hello.

Well, i guess an apology is owed to Paul Elam every time Debonered Mens By Feminism is evoked. Because it is a greater priority than officially recognized horrific acts, of course. It is absolutely not egocentrism. No no no.

Have a nice day.

Laugher at Bigots, Mincing Betaboy

The study cited in the Daily Fail Mail is one conducted in 2016 by Todd, Barry, and Thommessen entitled “Preferences for ‘Gender-typed’ Toys in Boys and Girls Aged 9 to 32 Months”. The ninety children analyzed in the study were not really infants, and would have had plenty of time to be socialized into gender roles. Also, ninety children is a fairly small sample. Amusingly, the Science Daily article I found in researching this also links to a more recent article saying exactly the opposite, and also an article from January 2015 confirming that transgendered persons’ gender identities are “deeply held and not the result of confusion about gender identity or pretense.”

Laugher at Bigots, Mincing Betaboy

It appears that Revilo Oliver was also something of a proto-brotheist: “Oliver believed that religion was one of the major weaknesses of his nation and civilization. In a 1990 article, he characterized Christianity as ‘a spiritual syphilis’ that ‘has rotted the minds of our race and induced paralysis of our will to live.’ ” (Wikipedia)

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

I’m reminded of the wonderful Philomena Cunk’s comments about Trump:

“All these women came forward to say he’d done creepy things to them too. But there wasn’t really any evidence that’d he’d actually do stuff like that; apart from that recording of him saying he did. And that’s just his word against his.”

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

D’oh. Wrong thread.

DanHolme
DanHolme
4 years ago

Almost every member of my immediate family is or has been part of the (UK) police force – both parents, sister (whose every relationship has been with a copper), aunts and uncles… You can imagine, if you have the stomach for it, the kind of jokes and stories that would be told at family gatherings (or gatherings of my various other ‘uncles’, who were work-colleagues of my dad). The pleasant conversations were the ones about drugs and murder – get onto politics and it was game over for my brain. But the ‘jokes’ were the worst – it was like a Bernard Manning show, every single day of my life.

Gussie Jives
Gussie Jives
4 years ago

Just another example of these guys really not wanting to confront ugly truths, be they past or present. It’s the same mechanism that has white people scrambling to find fault with BLM: they don’t like being reminded that there’s still a problem that they haven’t dealt with yet because it doesn’t affect them.

But what gets me about this exchange is that it’s not the fact that Donald Trump was the one who invoked the spectre of Nazi Germany, breaking Godwin’s Law so hard that it became a Twitter trend that same day, that bothered poor Mr. Elam; it was that the Anne Frank Centre condemned Trump for his careless comparison that had Elam taking to Twitter. The AFC didn’t even ask for an apology in that tweet.

Podkayne Lives (Soulless Golem)
Podkayne Lives (Soulless Golem)
4 years ago

Just for the hell of it, I clicked on the Psychology Today article. Its author is Satoshi Kanazawa, who has also written an article entitled “Why Are Black Women Less Physically Attractive Than Other Women?”. For that his PT blog, “The Scientific Fundamentalist”, was shut down. Naturally, he has seen much opposition from the scientific community, which he naturally attributes to “political correctness” and “censorship”. The bottom line is, he is not very credible.

I’d like to set him down with whoever came up with the theory–set forth in all seriousness in a book that I was assigned for a graduate-level human sexuality class in all seriousness–that white women and black men are evolutionarily drawn to one another, and let them discuss.

Podkayne Lives (Soulless Golem)
Podkayne Lives (Soulless Golem)
4 years ago

As for the toy preferences, I’m really not sure there’s a way to untangle the social conditioning/natural preference knot on that one. My daughter is four. She likes pink, fairy princesses, and anything cute. She loves trucks, building stuff out of Duplo, and her favorite movie is “The Lego Movie”. Doesn’t care for dolls, unless they are Doc McStuffins, who gives endless shots to Mommy, or superheroes. Is this her? Is this what I made her? Hell if I know.

The thing that continues to blow my mind is this one study about vervet monkeys and toys. The boy vervet monkeys preferred the stuffed animals, and the cars, and the girl vervet monkeys liked the dolls and the cooksets. It got fairly wide press coverage.

Here’s my question: vervet monkeys neither drive nor cook. So…um…WHAAAT? How does an animal that can’t conceive of a cookstove have a preference for a miniature kitchen over a miniature dump truck that it also can’t conceive of, on the basis of sex?

I suspect the study of fucking up, to put it kindly.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

@Podkanye, there’s a few things that might be responsible for that. Frankly, the monkeys are highly social animals and are quite aware of our interactions with them; lab animals especially. They could react to the exact same stimuli as infants and parents, for the exact same reasons – suggesting that the approving body language and sounds from the scientists could create the reaction in the monkeys. There’s absolutely zero reason to suspect a genetic predisposition towards dolls, cooksets, or cars. Zero, none.

I haven’t read the paper but that’s my take on it!

Moocow
4 years ago

@Podkayne Lives @Scildfreja

Ok good, that was the one I was having the most trouble rebuking aside from “animal behavior =/= human behavior”. I didn’t even consider the whole “A monkey has no context to even understand what a truck is” and “there is no evolutionary advantage or rationale in nature for a monkey preferring a human invention” yet even in my design class in college I remember this being cited in our workbook.

Dani
Dani
4 years ago

@ Moocow – I noticed that none of the links are true academic sources. They’re pop psychology or just trash (the Daily Fail). And the studies are too small or too flawed to count (as Podkayne Lives points out, how would monkeys have any concept of driving or cooking?). I also wonder how the scientists different

“Podkanye, there’s a few things that might be responsible for that. Frankly, the monkeys are highly social animals and are quite aware of our interactions with them; lab animals especially. They could react to the exact same stimuli as infants and parents, for the exact same reasons – suggesting that the approving body language and sounds from the scientists could create the reaction in the monkeys. ”

I’d never considered this before, but it’s an interesting idea. Humans and monkeys are both primates, so it stands to reason that our approving/disapproving sounds and our nonverbal communication would be similar.

Podkayne Lives (Effortless Chicken)
Podkayne Lives (Effortless Chicken)
4 years ago

The other thing I thought interesting is that if I recall correctly, the boy and girl monkeys both liked ‘stuffed animals’–I think bears and dogs were mentioned, but the females had a preference over the males for the baby dolls.

It struck me as odd, since to a vervet monkey, a stuffed dog and a baby doll are both representations of another species’ young, same as a stuffed dog and a stuffed monkey are for me. So it struck me as weird that without some sort of socialization the baby doll would stand out as an object for nurture by females, and the toy puppy not.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

I think we underestimate the intelligence and awareness of other mammals. We see the young of the apes and see children not so unlike our own; I have no reason to think they don’t do the same when they see our own children. Likewise, when a picture of a wise old ape is circulated, people will often comment at how human they are. When they look at us, I’m sure they think how very apelike we are in return.

The borders of species and sapience are an artificial construct, made out of scientific convenience and human arrogance, in my opinion.

Podkayne Lives (Effortless Chicken)
Podkayne Lives (Effortless Chicken)
4 years ago

I’m always struck by how babylike infant gorillas are.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

Exactly 🙂 I’m sure they’re as struck by how gorilla-like infant gorillas are, too.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/09/28/15/38E180F600000578-3811841-image-a-107_1475073793039.jpg

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

In order to have an innate preference for cars, boys have to have some kind of genetic or otherwise instinctual preference (WHY – what is the evolutionary value of car recognition?) or the preference needs to be secondary to some other innate trait. If it is secondary, then it becomes impossible to separate a boy’s learning of the context of the concept of a car from the social conditioning that his caretakers expect him to be interested in cars. And that context is needed, because we otherwise might as well say that boys have a preference for xorlagrim, made by the people who orbit the star Regulus. Without knowing what a car is and what it does and what makes it interesting, boys cannot possibly be interested in cars any more than they can be interested in xorlagrim without the same context. But how can they possibly learn these things without picking up that their caretakers expect them to be interested in cars?

I have yet to see even the most dedicated evopsyche explain the genetic basis for a boy to prefer, directly out of the womb, a machine that is only one century old, and the other explanation leaves said preference impossible to detangle from social conditioning. The most parsimonious explanation is that the preference is social conditioning.

Here’s something that might be an interesting study: take implements from some culture that is unfamiliar to Americans, some stereotypically male and some stereotypically female but all of them unfamiliar, and show them to young American boys and girls. See if the toddlers show any gendered preferences for implements that are gendered in their home culture, but for which no preference could have been socially conditioned into the kids.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

@PoM, try: Tight, body-conforming leggings. Today: feminine. Medieval-period-Europe: masculine. Complete reversal of modern standards. Same with pink and blue, though I’m sure everyone here knows that. There are certainly others in our own culture over time. I don’t know enough about isolated cultures to comment about modern examples, but I think that applies!

Feline
Feline
4 years ago

@Scildfreja: High heels are a wonderful example because of its overlapping with tights for men. And hardly the only one in that cluster.
Anybody trying to claim any bio-truth here is so ignorant it’ll hurt your teeth. You know, either that or possessing an agenda transparent like unto a pane of glass.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ scildfreja & POM

You probably already know that when hose was the vogue for men you could get special padding so guys could give themselves more shapely legs.

High heels also started out as a bloke thing (an adaptation from the practical use of fitting to horse stirrups)

ETA: ninja’d! 🙂

Podkayne Lives (Soulless Golem)
Podkayne Lives (Soulless Golem)
4 years ago

BTW, the book’s theory about why white women and black men pair up with each other was divine, and I need to share it now:

You see, women are lighter-skinned than men. (This is true. Within a population, women will be, on average, very slightly lighter in skin tone than men of the same ethnic makeup etc.)

As a result, fairness in women, the book explains, is associated with female femininity, and fertility, and attractiveness.

Dark skin, in men, is associated with being a good hunter, and virile.

(Evidence was cited for this. It was the use of ‘fair’ as a synonym for attractive, despite the fact that this was used in most of English’s spoken history as word to apply to either gender, and the phrase ‘tall, dark and handsome’, which…oh dear.)

SO, black men look at white women, and think, “She’s pale as paper! My evolutionary gonads tell me that she is a very feminine female with whom to breed!

And white women look at black men, and think, “WOW he’s super dark! He must be a great provider!”

And then they rush into each other’s arms. I think.

You might wonder if there was some attempt made to demonstrate that white women and black men, in fact, hook up with each other a significant lot, or if there was some attempt made to work in a tasteful mention of the fact that it hasn’t been a lot of years in the United States since a black man could be murdered with the law’s cooperation for smiling at a white woman on the street, or if there was some attempt to prove that this small gender distinction is one that people respond to in any way, let alone enough to override multiple other factors in partner selection.

There was not.

It was a doozy.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

And white women look at black men, and think, “WOW he’s super dark! He must be a great provider!”

But I thought that black men were horrible providers because they thugs and that’s why civilization is being destroyed by interracial baby making? I can’t keep the racist theories straight anymore.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

Just for the hell of it, I clicked on the Psychology Today article. Its author is Satoshi Kanazawa …

Oh God, not that MRAcist-before-it-was-cool quack again. As someone in a related field, trust me when I say that random Twitter eggs with misspelled usernames are more likely to be approvingly cited by serious papers than that ridiculous waste of education.

EJ (The Orphic Lizard)

@Moocow:
Whenever I come up against evopsych people, I’ve always found that the most effective solution is to repeat the following endlessly:

“That’s an interesting hypothesis. How would you go about testing it?”

Empiricism is the lifeblood of science, and it’s worth being a broken record about. If their response is to get angry, then they were never interested in science in the first place, only in trying to advance their pet cause by dressing it up as something more worthy.

@Podkayne Lives:
What does the book have to say about that other common (problematic) mixed-race stereotype, a White man dating an Asian woman? I’m sure there’s a deep and insightful explanation there which also involves melanin.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

Any scientist who gets annoyed when you ask “How would you go about testing that” isn’t a scientist, they’re an aspiring cult leader.