It’s time for another visit to The Comments I Don’t Let Through, my ongoing series in which I post, well, comments that are too extreme to just let through the moderation filter, but that, holy crap, I can’t really keep to myself.
Today, an all-caps, wall-of-text rant left in the comments this morning by a self-described “MGTOWRevolutionary.” Actually, he left it in the comments twice, with slight variations.
What follows is Mr. Revolutionary’s second rant, with several sentences from his first rant at appropriate points. I have also broken his walls-o-text into shorter paragraphs because we here at We Hunted the Mammoth are into tearing down walls, not building them up. I’m going to post it without snarky comments because, well, it’s late and I’m too tired to think any up.
(Oh, and be warned that there are some pretty nasty comments about domestic violence in the middle of his rant.)
THE WRITER OF THIS SITE IS A TYPICAL FEMALE MARXIST PSYCHOPATH WHO WANTS TO MANIPULATE PEOPLE.
Ok, I lied about not making snarky comments. I sort of feel it is incumbent upon me to point out that, as a man, I am not in fact A TYPICAL FEMALE of any type, given that TYPICAL FEMALES tend to be, you know, female.
WOMEN ARE BECOMING LIKE SECOND BOSSES TO MEN, THEY DO NOTHING BUT EXPLOIT US FOR OUR MONEY.
WE MEN HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT OUR CHAINS AND SOMEDAY WE WILL REVOLT AGAINST YOUR EXPLOITATION, WE ARE TIRED OF IT AND IT BRINGS NOTHING TO THE TABLE.
WHEN WILL WOMEN GET OFF THEIR ASSES AND DO THE SAME FUCKING AMOUNT OF WORK AS MEN, AND EQUALLY CONTRIBUTE TO CIVILIZATION WITHOUT EXPLOITING US FOR OUR MONEY.
YOU JUST WATCH WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMEDAY WE ALL UNIONIZE AND STRIKE AGAINST YOU, SO YOU CANNOT SURVIVE ANYMORE HAHA. IT WILL BE YOUR TURN BY THEN PARASITES.
IF YOU THINK WHAT YOU WOMEN HAVE IS SO BAD WHY DON’T YOU GIVE IT TO US? OH RIGHT, NO YOU WON’T BECAUSE DEEP DOWN YOU KNOW YOU DON’T WANT TO WORK FOR YOUR MONEY. YOU STEAL AND ROB ALL THE “COMFORTABLE” JOBS FROM US TOO.
Here come the domestic violence comments.
EVERYTIME I HEAR A FEMALE PARASITE DIE FROM “DOMESTIC VIOLENCE” OR KILL THEMSELVES I CAN’T HELP BUT LAUGH, ITS TOO FUNNY WHENEVER IT HAPPENS LOL.
ITS YOUR FAULT YOU CAN’T GET OFF YOUR ASSES AND MAKE MONEY FOR YOURSELF, AND ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTE TO CIVILIZATION
EVEN NOW AS I WRITE THIS I PICTURE MYSELF AS JUST A NUMBER INSIDE A CONCENTRATION CAMP BEING WORKED TO DEATH VIA EXHAUSTION FROM A SHORTER LIFESPAN ALL BECAUSE OF YOUR GENOCIDE, MURDER AND KILLINGS AGAINST US.
YOU MUST PAY FOR YOUR CRIMES JUST AS THE NAZIS IN NUREMBURG DID, I LOOK FORWARD TO THE DAY. INFACT THAT WE HAVE HERE IS WORSE IN EVERY SINGLE IMAGINABLE WAY COMPARED TO THE HOLOCAUST AND ALL THE EXPERIENCES OF ALL VICTIMS OF IT! EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.
MEN DIE EARLIER THAN WOMEN BECAUSE YOU MURDER THEM IN YOUR OWN VERSION OF A CONCENTRATION CAMP, YOUR GYNOCENTRIC SOCIETY.
THE NAZIS WERE ATLEAST OPEN, HONEST ABOUT IT AND ALLOWED IT TO BE OVER QUICKER FOR THEIR VICTIMS. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS YOU ENJOY WATCHING THE SLOW, AGONIZING DEATHS OF MEN IN SOCIETY AND DO IT WAY SLOWER.
THE DEATH EVIDENCE FROM YOUR DRAFTING OR SHORTENED LIFESPANS. YOU WOMEN ARE MURDEROUS PIECE OF SHIT WHO BUILD YOUR PROSPERITY ON THE BLOOD OF MILLIONS, MILLIONS OF MEN
And … scene!
So, if I read that right, the “gay lifestyle” is determined by a specific place in San Fransisco?
I will agree that what people who say “gay lifestyle” usually mean *are* what is depicted in those parties. Or in the pride parades. But then why don’t people expect all citizens of New Orleans to be living some strange, constant parade Mardi Gras lifestyle?
One again, there is no such thing as a ‘gay lifestyle’, any more than there is a ‘straight lifestyle’.
Next time, include something to show that you’re being tongue in cheek, please. Many people use a /s to show that the sarcasm has ended.
I would also like to point out that you just typed “I have friends who are ‘x'” without any irony whatsoever.
Also, men can hate women and yet still want to have sex with them. Please see the PUA tag on this very blog for more information.
Plus, women grew up in the same misogynistic patriarchal culture that men did. A lot of women have a ton of internalized misogyny and are happy to be in relationships with sexist men who tell them they aren’t like those other slutty/inferior women. That’s why there’s plenty of women in the MRM, quiverfull, etc.
ETA: That was meant as a reply to POM but I was too slow for it to appear right after.
@Just read
Well then welcome to WHTM friend.
Please don’t use the “I’m not racist I have black friends” arguments friend.
Sexual orientation and number of partners isn’t a lifestyle friend.
I still don’t see how “why be angry at women just start fucking other men that’ll solve all your issues” pertains to this friend.
Despite our dislike of Milo, for many legitimate reasons, we don’t say that he’s gay because he’s a sexually repressed heterosexual man nor try to implicate moral failings/obligations regarding his sexuality friend.
I have other things to do, and this is an awkward forum for subtleties.
A large amount of the reaction seems to be the assumption I have my head up my ass or I am trolling. Neither are correct, although I realize some will doubt me. So be it. YMMV.
I also think people responding to what I have said are, to some degree, confusing cause & effect. For example, the (cause) cognitive dissonance of the MGTOW leads to the (effect) violence against women, not the other way around. Yes, I know what the term means. I don’t think some bothered to really read what I said, but just reacted.
And yes, hatred is either taught or otherwise learned. As an adult, it is self-inflicted because, as an adult, one can choose to continue to hate or learn to cast aside the hate. For many, hate is comfortable and is rewarded by the group. For others, like Milo, it is a satisfying career.
And to think that one can change the minds of those who hate women can be done: There are exceptional cases where it has been done. For those who want to try, be my guest. The success rate is very low. The only path that works for the large scale is controlling or punishing hateful behavior.
As an example, there are a very few KKK members who have had a change of heart, usually by an outpouring of love from a few dedicated targets of that hate. But the KKK (et al) continue to hate. You are not going to affect them, but you can prevent or punish violence against the targets of that hate.
There is no fundamental difference between MGTOW idiots hating women and the KKK hating minorities. Group A hates group B. Gender vs race is irrelevant to the issue, just a different flavor. No difference in kind. Most on this forum are women, so it is very personal.
Believe it or not, we are in basic agreement on the basic issues.
y’all can respond to this, but I am done posting. Keep banging the rocks together.
One small addendum:
“I have friends who are xxx”. yes, I expected pushback on this. BUT how else can anyone put it simply?
I repeat: I really do not care who loves whom, has sex with, etc, as long as it does not include fucking kids. I really do not care if someone is gay or straight. Period.
I only care that one is a thoughtful person who does not hate j random group because of a perceived difference.
Careful with your assumptions. I try to be careful with mine.
EOT
eeesh
I’m gonna slice and reply by the numbers here.
No, people actually read what you said. No one’s confusing cause and effect, because you haven’t shown that there’s a cause and effect relationship there. You also haven’t shown that they experience cognitive dissonance. It’s perfectly possible for someone to be sexually attracted to a person they hate. PoM said it best.
Yes, of course. It’s not conscious, but it’s learned. Why are you saying this? No one’s contesting that hatred is picked up through experience.
(I would say that you’re being a little naive about how easily hate can be recognized and overcome, though. Those feelings have very deep roots.)
Control and punishment have been shown to be terrible methods of changing minds. Like, conclusively. You’re very wrong on this point.
Sure. The only issue I’m having problems with is the issue you’re avoiding – the fact that you said that straight men can just choose to become gay. Answer that one directly, please, instead of skirting around it.
That’s a big problem for LGBT people – conversion therapy is built around the idea that sexuality is a choice, and that belief results in the torture of a great number of LGBT folks. Literal physical torture in many cases. It also propagates the idea that someone who’s gay can be punished into conformance, and that gay people are only gay to cause trouble, etc, etc.
This is a problem that hurts people, today, all over the world, and your belief supports it. You need to confront that.
Or, you know, you can tell us that we’re all stupid and walk away in a huff. That’s fine too. As long as you get to feel superior, right?
http://media.giphy.com/media/SriJPYsPgvpNm/giphy.gif
I’m still confuse on what exactly is a “gay lifestyle” is.
Like gay people do these thing and that makes it a “gay lifestyle” but also straight peopel do it. That’s what they said, right? Did I misread that?
(It’s not a “gay lifestyle” if straight people do it too.)
@Can’t Read The Directions
Other folks have said some good stuff, and I’m on my way to work and haven’t much time, but I can’t let this pass:
No, we fucking well don’t. Swingers, yes. Poly folks, no. Queer folks, really no.
3 things:
1)I really dislike ‘gay experience’ as a synonym for a straight person having sex with a same gender partner. That straight person isn’t experiencing being gay any more than I’m getting an authentic Asian experience by eating at the Chinese restaurant by the movie theater
2)troll isn’t a profession (well, it is in Russia…), it’s an action. Denying being a troll while being a troll is the most annoying thing
3)So, our avid lurker here has read the blog for a year, yet disagrees with the fundamental premise of the community, of feminism generally: that misogyny exists, and it can be fought. Sure…
@Scildfreja
Can confirm
9________9 “Why are people responding to things that I have said? I didn’t foresee that there would be discussion when I said these things!”
Do people think you have your head up your own ass? Maybe. I think you perhaps weren’t thinking what your word choices meant, and the assumptions they showed.
You said you frequently re-evaluate your biases. People have show you that some of the things you said are biased, and perhaps in ways you didn’t intend.
You doubled down, and now have quit because people responded to you.
Let me say it clearer: I was *not* criticizing gay people for having sex. I also do not care, as long as everyone is of consenting age. What I was objecting about was the ‘lifestyle’ comment, which seems like it means to you ‘the type of sex people are having’. I could not care any less about what people get up to, as long as they don’t involve me in it.
But LIVING AS A GAY PERSON =/= polyamory or swinging. People *can*, but it doesn’t automatically mean that. ‘Gay lifestyle’ is usually shorthand for ‘kinky sex that no self-respecting person would have, the gays are all godless heathens’. And I have a problem with that.
I don’t know what assumption I made, that is the second time you attempted to check me about some magical ill intent I was giving you. I was not. I was pointing out that your language is problematic, and contributes to the very thing you seem to be against: stereotyping.
I dream that people can change, and I hope that they can see how their actions affect others.
Also, the idea of someone turning gay for a little while is pretty laughable. The Kinsey scale does exist, and people can slide around on it, but turning gay while someone is in prison (!?) is like, not how that works.
@Axe: 1) is a great analogy!
@Dalillama
Pretty sure they’re mixing the kinkster community with the queer community because, you know, we’re interchangeable as people who just have weird-ass sex lives in comparison to vanilla cishets.
…Do people in the kinkster communities consider it a lifestyle?
I didn’t really like it either, but I couldn’t come up with a better term, and didn’t think about it as much as I should have. Mea culpa! You’re very right in that having sex with a same-gendered partner isn’t at all the same as living the life of someone who’s gay. Night and day difference. I’ll use a better term next time.
I was gonna write a snarky sarcastic reply to you here, Rhuu, but I can’t do it without turning my stomach. Eugh. It’s that line right there that made my skin crawl. “Turned gay because they were in prison” is the most tone-deaf prison rape reference I’ve run across in awhile.
And no, I don’t care if you were actually referring to prison rape, @JRTD. You can’t refer to what you’re talking about here without invoking that as a reference. It’s implicit. Gross.
Sigh.
quote: “That’s a big problem for LGBT people – conversion therapy is built around the idea that sexuality is a choice, and that belief results in the torture of a great number of LGBT folks. Literal physical torture in many cases. It also propagates the idea that someone who’s gay can be punished into conformance, and that gay people are only gay to cause trouble, etc, etc.
This is a problem that hurts people, today, all over the world, and your belief supports it. You need to confront that.”
You missed the point where I specifically stated that for most people, being gay is biological.
There are also people that can choose, for whatever reason, to be bi-sexual. Is that a better word for you? These are usually because of context – prison, long sea voyages, etc. When these (typically men) are back in “normal” society, they can “revert” to being hetero.
These two statements are not in conflict. And you are putting words in my mouth. I NEVER advocated “conversion therapy”. My son is gay. I would fight, to the death, ANY asshole or group that tried to pull that shit on him.
Furthermore, the KKK and similar hate groups are not going to start holding hands and singing kumbia with the targets of their hate. Nor are they going to start to love because of a government policy. The way most of them are going to be prevented from acting violently is the threat of punishment – which is applied to those who commit violence.
Please note the above applies to ADULTS.
Your statement about (quote) Control and punishment have been shown to be terrible methods of changing minds. Like, conclusively. You’re very wrong on this point.
(I would say that you’re being a little naive about how easily hate can be recognized and overcome, though. Those feelings have very deep roots.)
1. I don’t care about changing minds. I care about behavior IN ADULTS. Changing adult minds in a short time (a few years) on a large scale is either useless, or propaganda, which is successfully in creating hate and poor in changing hate to love. Read your history.
2. You did not bother to read where I was specific about the difficulty of changing haters’ attitudes. It usually takes a severe shock to a individual to have that degree of change. No, I am not naïve.
3. For KIDS, you are correct. The issue is the family is much more powerful on kid’s attitudes than schools. Hate tends to propagate through families.
This got started because I suggested, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, that if MGTOW idiots wanted sex, choosing to be bi-sexual allows them to get sex without women. I hate to break it to you, but many more men are happy with just sex than women (ie no long-term commitment). It is obvious why women want that commitment – they get pregnant, they raise the kid. Not rocket surgery.
It has been interesting to see where responders just made assumptions about what I wrote, without actually thinking about what I wrote. Responders assumed I have my head up my ass. Wrong. Really. I don’t need to feel superior. I do think you are not understanding why people hate and their reasons to hate. Milo feeds off that. He has a successful career – you need to understand why.
I actually have real work to do. this has chewed up more time than I really could afford.
I am An Queer, but I do not live in San Francisco. Am I experiencing the straight lifestyle?
I’m genuinely fascinated that anyone other than Ben Carson apparently thinks prison turns men gay.
http://66.media.tumblr.com/08bb54161312f8e77eb92e9db457c6fe/tumblr_nu8z1pSiRK1tjnfcso1_500.gif
Yes, of course, people who “choose” to be “bi-sexual”. Right.
Just, FYI, people don’t choose to be bisexual. Bisexuality isn’t a choice, bisexuality isn’t choosing between being gay or straight, bisexuality is its own thing. Red is red, blue is blue, and purple is still purple and doesn’t have to choose between being called red or blue.
@Scildfreja Unnýðnes: i should have perhaps waited to post my comment until i was home. I had hoped the pumctuation i added would make it clear that i was horrified by the implcatns that prision rape was anything other than horrifying and rape. Because it is both horrifying and rape.
I meant to reference their reference, and say that it was in no way equivalent, and i’m very sorry that did not come through.
@Viscaria
That means you’re experiencing the queer-by-choice lifestyle. People in San Francisco or in prison turn gay because science, but in most other places you can choose freely each morning. Straight lifestyle happens only when you are either Adam or Eve, but this is an unsustainable state. As entropy increases, the gay lifestyle becomes inevitable. Good luck!
Edit window closed on me!
For the record, I think “choice” vs” born this way” is a false dichotomy. I also think there are people who view their sexuality as a choice, in whole or in part, and they are valid. But I am a bisexual person (no hyphen, ffs) and I would not characterize that as a choice. I can choose who I sleep with, but so can you. That doesn’t somehow mean your straightness is a choice.
Evopsyche. Didn’t anticipate that.
http://i.imgur.com/JO6HQoeh.jpg
This just in! Giant human person makes fully grown cat look like tiny kitten.
Kitten comments: shush I will sleep now
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FWIW my trolldar is not going off. I don’t think Just Read is trolling. I think Just Read is genuinely clueless and getting defensive instead of having a discussion that might challenge their preconceptions.
@PoM
Same. But holy crap they are clueless.
@Just read
I honestly have trouble reading what you are writing.
Except that this isn’t true, at all. Bisexual is its own thing. Are you confusing the idea that bisexual people seek company from multiple people equally with bisexual people probably having more a preference for one over another?
No one is your resource number in a CIV game, if you read history regarding social movements that altered multiple core facets of society you might be more inclined to knowing that your police state is not actually that efficient when you can’t just keep buying pleasure palaces to make your citizens happy.
I hate to break it to you, but frankly your tongue couldn’t be further from the cheek on your face if it was in the cheeks of the other end. Citations needed regarding heterosexual men being more happy with sex and less on the particulars of partners.
Yes because the idea of spendign the rest of your life with another just because you enjoy each others’ company is too foreign a concept for humanity to comprehend.
“Now I’ve won so there.”