With Trump talking about starting a new nuclear arms race, this may not be a rhetorical question. Discuss. No trolls or Trump supporters.
I’m also putting up a No-Trump-talk thread for those who’d rather talk about anything other than Trump.
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Will Trump kill us all? Friday Night Open Thread
Perhaps the most worrying thing is that not only is this a legitimate question to ask, but that it’s being asked in some of the highest circles in the military and diplomatic communities.
The key concern seems to be Trump’s inconsistencies. Does he want a closer relationship with Russia or a new ‘missile gap’ race? Will he be Nixon 2.0 when it comes to China or will he provoke an invasion of Taiwan? Are we to see an isolationist foreign policy or will America’s role of world policeman resemble the worst aspects of the LAPD in the 90s?
A lot of words have come out of his mouth but when you actually parse what he says there’s no actual content there.
For me the most reassuring but puzzling aspect is his appointment of General Mattis. Mattis is well respected within NATO and a big promoter of the alliance. That seems very much at odds with Trump’s comments. It may be that Trump’s threat to treat NATO contributions as some form of protection racket does gee up some members to abide by their obligations. But the message he is sending as to his willingness to abandon the alliance, can only embolden Putin. Putin is already riding high on his ‘success’ in Syria so this does not bode well for people in the Balkans or Ukraine.
Trump seems to assume that he’ll just be able to treat international relations as if it was the business world and that his ‘art of the deal’ strategies are transferable to that environment. Combine that with a complete lack of understanding of geo-politics and impulsive petulance and it’s a concern.
Playing your cards close to your chest can be a legitimate strategy but that only works when your opponents know that you do have a plan (even if they don’t know what that plan is). However when the uncertainty arises because it’s clear someone doesn’t have a clue what they’re doing that just leads to instability.
The thing that really boggled my mind wasn’t that he threatened nuclear war, but that he said the US should stockpile nukes “until the world comes to its senses regarding nuclear weapons”.
WTF does that mean??? Surely “coming to its senses” means we all unanimously agree to disarm ourselves. The US already has enough to reduce our planet to a crater several times over, in what way is adding to that superfluity of nukes a step towards being more sensible???
So I express zero surprise that Trump is rattling sabres, but I wanna know WHO is there to make him STFU? Has anyone sat him down, slapped him across the face and just yelled “NO!” at him?
Has anyone in a position of government said anything to the effect of “Hell no, we’re not building more nukes, this man is clearly a danger to national security”?
Has anyone said, in as many words, “This man cannot assume the role of president, end of.”?
I mean, there’s strong evidence of voter suppression, Russians influencing the election in his favour, and that Hillary won the popular vote by an even wider margin than first counted, and so far Trump has refused to comply with any of the “checks and balances” that would prevent him from abusing his power while in office, and he’s close to provoking an international incident.
There are so many reasons to slam on the brakes, but who actually has the power to do it? Can there be a second election?
I’m not usually a religious person, but I pray Jesus Christ himself literally comes down to earth tomorrow to deliver us from Satan’s power, because I am convinced that this whole fiasco is one of his infernal works.
He responded positively this weekend to a fan letter from Vladimir Putin. Well we can only hope his handlers can keep President Fart from ganging up with Russia on China. That’s a possible scenario, and I hope it’s unlikely.
Kat
I think the main thing I like about it is the loaded, venomous, withering scorn and righteous rage that Olbermann can deliver with the name. Wouldn’t matter if he were calling him by any other name, you’d still know what and who he was getting at.
I suppose the difference between the two approaches is that HWMNBN wants people to fear him. In DJT’s case, he wants power, respectability, and acknowledgement.
Denying him that, even if only in your own mind or private writings or conversations, could be satisfying for many people.
@Kat
It’s been said there’s a pretty thin line between brave and stupid, but in his case ? Thick as the guy himself.
Not to mention that we’re talking about the man with a history of using every means at his disposal to “solve” the pettiest disputes. Giving him more means, up to and including fucking nukes, seems like a really bad idea to me.
I was scared before, but now… holy shit. He’s actually saying he’ll nuke anyone who pisses him off. This is what it’s come to, after decades of MAD theory : the next POTUS is super excited about nuclear capability.
@Alan
Further reinforcing my theory that it is indeed possible to attain a critical mass of stupid, and that Trump has reached that point, which should lead to him defeating himself at every turn. Sadly, he’ll take as many of us down with him as he possibly can, so even that isn’t too reassuring. But hey, since apparently this is a time for rewriting the laws of pretty much everything we knew about reality, I might as well add my own.
@AltoFronto
Yeah… guess he meant that nukes are fucking awesome, and we’re all too dumb to realize that. I mean, one of his lackeys later said that what he actually meant was to warn about the threat of nuclear war, but even that was before he doubled down and said “let it be an arms race”. So yeah, I can’t believe it myself, but it seems he actually meant that nukes are awesome.
Who are we going to be arms racing with anyway?
@numerobis – The only country with more nukes than the USA is Russia, by about 300 warheads.
Which is why it’s even more bizarre to suggest an arms race, because Putin’s his best mate, apparently.
There’s nobody else who isn’t vastly out-gunned by the USA already, so there’s no reason to arm against anyone.
Most countries that have nukes are allies anyway, or at least have trade agreements with the US that make aggression a poor choice.
If he’s willing to go straight to the nuclear option when he doesn’t even have an enemy to point it at, what the hell is he capable of?
@mildlymagnificent
Yep.
Yes, I agree that DJT wants power, respectability, and acknowledgment.
I think he also wants to be loved.
And feared.
Do you have any beautiful women? He’d like them too.
Also the change in your pocket.
Etcetera.
Later, Kellyanne Conway will explain, “Like feminists, President-elect Trump wants it all. What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.”
@numerobis
Primarily Russia and China, but some other countries that are “allies” (aka the US is sending them weapons) have nukes and could gain the capability to join the race in the coming world.
There’s only one thing Trump doesn’t want, and that’s human decency.
For everything else, there’s probably a Visa Mastercard joke or something.
Also, don’t know if anyone noticed this, but Trump tweeted today about something Putin said about Clinton and the Dems being ‘sore losers’
Jared Yates Sexton had the best reply to it by saying “This is how normalization of Russia will happen. In a years time the cold war will be a distant memory and everyone will assume we’ve always been allied with Russia.”
@Sinkable John
Right, he’s got no use for that.
Quick thought on memes:
Donald Trump
Dunnung Krueger
Twitter Troll
We keep focusing on how he’s a terrible human being. Donald trump certainly is a terrible human being, but the electorate doesn’t really care about that. We might get more mileage out of emphasizing that he also appears to be incompetent.
Edited to add: that should be, ‘that portion of the US electorate that put Donald Trump in the white house’. Neither candidate won the popular vote, and Hillary won a plurality of the electorate.
@JSun
I was born into the era of the Cold War. The Russians (i.e., the people of the USSR) were awful, awful, awful. And terrifying.
When, at 6, I mentioned to my mother that the Russian people were awful, my mother (a staunch conservative) corrected me by saying that it wasn’t the people, it was their government. That made sense because I knew that the USSR oppressed its people.
Then my mother, who of course had a longer memory than I did, said something that flabbergasted me: “We were on the same side in World War II.”
Mind.
Blown.
@Kat
It’d hold him back. Lucky for him (not so for everyone else) he doesn’t have any. True Freedom ™
His plan is to team up with Putin and nuke China and the Middle East using the “Arms race” as a cover.
At least, judging by who he likes, who he hates and what he’s said, it’s either that or some “Whoville and the moon” power-tripping fuck-knows-what.
I don’t know ’bout y’all, but I got one would feel safer with Wheatley as our president.
He may have a British accent, but he was made in America at least.
And he may be stupider than our Oompa Loompa Elect, but at least it’s a (mostly) harmless stupid.
@PI
Do we have proof that Trump wasn’t engineered in an effort to dumb down whatever he attaches to (like society) ?
I disagree that Wheatley is stupider though. For all I know, Trump could be Wheatley’s Wheatley, his own Intelligence Dampening core.
Pardon my ignorance, this is the first time I’ve seen ‘Wheatley’ mentioned. Can somebody fill this hole in my understanding please ?
So I take it I’m not the only one silently freaking the HOLY DANCING FUCK out because Valve stuffed Robot Repair full of hints that the Portal 3 ARG’s about to drop? =P
@Kevin
Portal 2 reference.
@Kat
Yeah, we were allies. But the thing is, it was allies for the sake of the war, not allies because we liked each other. We’ve been at odds for a long long time and trump is going to undo all of that in the eyes of his supporters inside a year.
Hell David reported on a guy who thought that Russia hacking the DNC and releasing the files to wikileaks was a *good thing*
It’s already happening that people are normalizing Russian interference in US politics for their own benefit.
@SFHC
I actually didn’t know about that.
Wait. Did you say Portal 3 ?
HOLY DANCING FUCK
@SFHC thank you for the heads up. Is the character as inept as President Fart ?
@Kevin
Lemme put it this way : if you were to have a Turing test comparing Trump and Wheatley, every evaluator would be adamant that Wheatley is a genuine human being, and Trump the result of a really poor attempt at AI programming.
Come to think of it, I have no proof that Trump is an actual human being and not the result of a really poor attempt at AI programming (the parroting and his, err, “many words”, y’know) installed in the result of a really poor attempt at constructing a realistic artificial body (the hair is a dead giveaway).
AAaaaaa Portal 3 ARG? I NEED THAT VIVE.
@Kevin, Wheatley’s adorably stupid. He’s an artificial intelligence designed specifically to make a super-intelligent AI (SFHC’s avatar) stupid, and thereby controllable. Arguably the best character in the game, but that would be an argument by Wheatley, because Weatley’s stupid, and GLaDOS is the best character in the game. As argued by GLaDOS.
(shh Chell we all know you’re the best)
As for the whole “Nuclear War” thing, I’ll bet that Trump and Putin start posturing against one another in order to excuse an arms race, and any apparent friendliness between the two is just them being polite to a foreign leader. Meanwhile, they laugh their ways to the bank as their governments funnel billions into private accounts and they build a larger stockpile of blackmail-murder-weapons.
Though, China’s a third party and I don’t know how that would play into it. Who knows? Trump says one thing (five things) and then does another (Whatever Putin tells him). It’s all misdirection and noise.