With Trump talking about starting a new nuclear arms race, this may not be a rhetorical question. Discuss. No trolls or Trump supporters.
I’m also putting up a No-Trump-talk thread for those who’d rather talk about anything other than Trump.
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Will Trump kill us all? Friday Night Open Thread
Well worst case scenario we all die. “best case” scenario many us citizens are burned at the stake and several areas will look like Mad Max from the infrastructure regressing to third world living standards.
I’m pretty sure it won’t be a direct deliberate attack on a foreign power that kills us all but trump insulting the wrong people badly enough that they’re willing to start aggressive action, which everyone responds to by going to war.
Then, of course, with a new arms race everyone will have a massive nuclear stockpile and nuclear war will be just around the corner every day.
EDIT: What I’m saying is, trump won’t cause a war by being aggressive, he’ll cause a war by being a twitter troll…
Of course the nuclear apocalypse would be catalyzed by some blowhard on Twitter. That seems a logical natural outcome of our current global condition.
I think Trump will be a terrible president, but he (probably) won’t cause a nuclear holocaust. I mean, who’s he going to attack? Russia? Doubt it. This is just tough-guy posturing. Or so I hope.
He’s incompetent, narcissistic and not too bright, but I don’t think he has a death wish.
@Hashtag_Ravenclaw
You’re forgetting one thing here: Donald Trump legitimately believes that he can win the arms race he asked for yesterday and today.
Like, not even joking. He actually said “Let it be an arms race. We’ll match them at every pass and come out on top.”
Carrie Fisher just had a “Cardiac Episode” on a flight and is in the ICU.
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/entertainment/carrie-fisher-cardiac-episode-1.3911678
Fuck this year.
The major powers of the world would be happy for an arms race – it means that they’ll be able to pump more money into military spending, making them richer. They’re the same people that own the heavy industry after all. Trump’s no different, and that’s why he’s calling for an arms race. It’s the quickest way to pump money out of the public and into private bank accounts.
I really, really hope it doesn’t happen.
Let’s not start with assassination talk, now. That kind of thing isn’t to be bandied about lightly like a lot of the far right like to do.
Oh look, its hell. Seriously, whoever drew that shelter diagram did not think it through. I give those folks three days before the grouch with the newspaper flips out and kills one of the other occupants of the shelter. After that, it’s just a matter of time until there’s only one left.
My money’s on the kid- she looks like she’s got moxie. A couple of weeks after the bombs fall, she’ll crawl out of that hole, bloodied but unbroken. Maybe a bit cracked; who wouldn’t be after the death of everything they’ve ever known?
She’ll find other survivors. Maybe some Trump supporter will find her and think she’s easy pickings because she’s a kid. She’ll make a necklace out of his teeth, and carve a flute from his femur. She’ll rescue a bunch of kids from post-apocalyptic slavers. She’ll form the baddest band of raiders in the land, and no one will ever make the mistake of thinking her easy target again.
Through it all, she won’t forget about the great orange troll that burned the world. She knows he’s still be out there, because of course he’ll survive. It’ll take more than a little nuclear holocaust to wipe out a lifeform that low. But that’s ok, because this isn’t his world anymore. It’s hers.
She remembers her family. Not the horror of the shelter, but before. She loved her family, once. They were happy, once. Before they were taken from her. Before HE stole them away, with his greed, his ignorance, his hate. For the sake his swollen, stupid pride. One day, she’ll find him, and on that day he’ll learn what happens to those who steal from the Queen of the Wastes.
On a more serious note, I do think nuclear war is inevitable now. Maybe not in Trump’s reign, though the threat is likely higher now than it’s been since the Cuban Missile Crisis. So long as the powers that be have those weapons, they will use them. It’s just a matter of time. I used to believe that we might be starting to see reason, to understand that no one should have planet-killer weaponry, but then we elected the great orange hole.
yeah but at least ugh I don’t know I’ve managed to end up convincing myself that the world did actually end in 2012 and we’re in purgatory now, and I don’t want to have it turn out that we’re in a worse place
also I just need some catharsis
I think we all do
plus I never really was a fan of Fallout
We really don’t need people actively advocating that someone should just fucking kill the President-Electoral, (((Zero))). What I’m worried about, personally, is more of a ‘stochastic terrorism’-ish situation.
What is stochastic terrorism? It’s what happens when a hateful message is consistently broadcast to a multi-mega-person audience… and at least one member of that audience is sufficiently deranged/fanatical/deluded enough to, you know, act on that message. It’s a question of how large an audience has to get before the sufficiently-deranged/fanatical/deluded segment of that audience is large enough to effectively guarantee one person who acts on the hateful message.
In the case of the Angry Cheeto, however, it’s not that there’s any significant number of people saying kill the bastard; rather, what’s going on is that the Cheeto’s documented behavior is horrible enough to trigger visceral feelings of disgust/hatred/revulsion in millions of people. And since there’s no indication that the Cheeto is going to stop being a horrible person, the message being broadcast is effectively “Trump doesn’t deserve to live.” And with that message being broadcast to millions upon millions of people, on a continuing basis… well… the situation as it applies to the Cheeto, reminds me of one of Clint Eastwood’s most famous lines: “Do you feel lucky, punk? Well… do ya?”
and I really don’t want to end up living in one of those “after the apocalypse the patriarchy will return and women will be little more than sex slaves/walking incubator who’s only good for making dem sammiches an poppin out babies”. Like that’s one of my greatest fears, I’m a very independant person and the very thought of having a baby, especially one by rape, would probably destroy me mentally. Like I don’t want the world to end up that way.
Like I’ve seen some people who have the very opposite oppinion on what the apocalypse would do to society. Like after the end we wouldn’t revert to a bunch of he-man warlords who would end up perpetuating just loathsome values like social darwinism (boy howdy I have a rant about that little slice of nasty, but that is a story for another day) and we’ll end up realizing the mistakes of our past civilization and end up valuing people who are altruistic, caring, and compassionate. But call me a pessimist but I’m pretty sure that the former scenario is much more plausible than the latter. We’ve messed up our society so much that such an outcome is nigh impossible. Like the misinterpretation of Christianity and the fact that people are still talking about Ayn Rand, and her purple-prose enshrouded awfulness.
I wish that this society held things like compassion and empathy in the same regard as they have for things like “picking yourself up from the bootstraps” or needing-nobody’s-help-at-doing-anything-ever-and-you-should-be-the-same-way, regardless of any sort of disability, or marginalization you may have/experience. We need to have these values celebrated, even glorified and romanticized. Humans are fundamentally assholes and all but if we’re taught that being one is wrong, that you can transcend this state and actually have a heart. I have to say that politically I’m a fairly vanilla democratic socialist, in a world that almost treats the word “Socialist” a word so vile that it almost might be a swear. Only for having empathy.
Oh what a world we live in, and how we were heading in the right direction for the past eight years. How such a paradigm shift was almost imminent. How it almost seemed like a great time of progress was upon us. Empathy is radical now. We need to stick together, help each other and hang on to the progress made in the past, and if push comes to shove we should only let them take it away when they are prying it from our cold, dead hands.
Maybe then they’ll feel some remorse.
ugh. I’m not ready to have a bad day every day for the next four years and possibly more
@Vucodlak
Love the fiction.
I don’t think nuclear war is inevitable, but some days I do feel despair. Like right now, with the days being short and the nights long.
Half of my family of origin is dead, and I still don’t understand our relationships.
And Donald Trump is poised to be the president of the USA. What is he doing to my heart!
But you know what? Like your character, a little girl lives in me. A girl with moxie. The queen of the effin’ wastes!
I will prevail.
We will prevail.
@Leftwingfox
Yeah, I’m sad about Carrie Fisher, who’s so talented and has been brave about mental illness.
Someone on another board said that this year is the year of the rapture. It’s playing out a little differently than expected.
Here’s wishing Carrie the best possible outcome.
Zero, I deleted your comment, you know which one, you can’t post that sort of shit here. I’m going to have to put you on moderation.
On the fallout shelter, why are those dudes wearing suits? And why are there two of them? Polyamory?
The paranoia is starting to affect a lot of my friends and probably myself. Like cis white dudes who I think are my friends will drop a stupid joke that is really offensive and because this won’t affect them. Then we have to do the math of is it worth alienating this “ally” to defend yourself or is it safer to let it slide, but if you let this slide then what else will they feel comfortable telling you. Or worse, telling other people.
Then the stress of those calculations add up and sometimes we accidentally take it out on each other. And the other person is kind of already on pins and needles and wants to yell at someone anyway. But I guess the good thing is most of my dear friends understand the stress the others are going through and we all know any anger at each other is accidental. Ugh. But it’s all so tiring and stressful.
What are you all doing to relax?
@ David Futrelle
Maybe it’s drawn from the wide eyed optimism from that era, that this apocalypse will pass in due time and before you know it you can go right back to work. The sitting one has a more aged expression, so I’ll assume that he is the father and the one standing is his son.
I doubt Chump is going to kill us all but …
I do think his BFF Putin will kill a lot of people. Specifically, I suspect that Chump’s announcement that America can’t necessarily be arsed to honour its NATO obligations, is effectively an invitation for Putin to invade whichever former parts of the Soviet Union or Russia he feels like. And Putin seems to think so too.
And I also expect the GOP to try to push through as much legislation as they can to try to hold on to their power in the face of dwindling popular support. So gerrymandering, voter suppression, what have you.
I think for all you unfortunate USAnians, you may have to decide whether it’s better for you personally to feel as though you’re fighting for, or fighting against, something.
Way back when I was young and fearless, it wouldn’t have made much difference to me. But it does for a lot of people who need to count their spoons (or their dollars on payday). Are you going to reshape your opposition to Trump and the pirate crew into positive local action to get the right people elected to the water authority/ school board/ and the like? Or do you feel you want to get out there into people’s faces and shout them down or show that you and all the others with you will not let them get away with wrecking the joint.
Both approaches can take up a hell of a lot of energy and time and you might want to decide in advance which way suits you most – or most often. If you have only money and no energy or time, a regular donation – however small – added to other people’s regular donations can make a big difference to people’s lives.
I do think Keith Olbermann’s approach of only ever calling the man Trump, even Mr Trump if you want to be polite, but never using the title of the position he’s elected to is a clever way of undercutting his authority in your own social circle. You don’t even have to say that that’s what you’re doing.
Well he did say he “wouldn’t rule out” nuking, of all places, Europe. Why us is kinda beyond me. Maybe that’s his version of tough guy talk, “Look, I’m even dumb enough to nuke my own allies ! I HAS NO LIMITZ !” or something.
As we’ve seen from him before, stuff like “I wouldn’t rule out” is Trumpian for “I’m doing it soon as they done installing spellcheck on the football.”
(By the way dude, we ain’t your allies. America’s allies, sure, but yours ? Nah.)
If it makes you feel any better, Zero, in the event some kind of Apocalypse did occur, it’s not as if everyone still alive would forget about all the social norms we’ve built or be able to discard those ideas completely. It’s not as if we can literally hit the reset button on humanity. Furthermore, the concept that Patriarchy was some absolute in the ancient world in which men completely dominated women as literal sex slaves is more an invention of modern male power fantasy than anything historically accurate. In reality, evidence suggests that gender roles were fairly universally egalitarian during the nomadic phase, and women have enjoyed varying degrees of freedom in different cultures throughout the ages. Some modern inventions, especially reproductive health measures, have given women unprecedented power in modern times which could bring them within spitting distance of true egalitarianism, but it’s unlikely that we would lose all knowledge of birth control measures, for one, and it’s also very possible that difficult daily life in a postapocalyptic world would make the subjugation of women generally unfeasible.
Oh hey, wouldja look at dat. While rifling through old papers I found a collection of songs and short stories that I wrote about five years ago. Had forgotten about that stuff. That project ended when I started writing the novel I’ve been working on since then.
It’s called Bomb Shelter Blues.
@mildlymagnificent
This is an interesting approach.
But for me it smacks of He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, as the fearsome Lord Voldemort was called in Harry Potter novels.
It also puts me in mind of what early feminist Lucy Stone said to a proto-troll:
That’s why, should the worst happen, I’m not going to say, “Trump isn’t my president.” Like it or not, he will be my president. I believe in naming the thing. That gives me mental clarity, and I can then decide what to do about the thing.
@Sinkable John
Yeah, that’s certainly the image Trump is trying to push.
The guy seems to be fearless.
I’d rather he had courage — the courage to assess a situation honestly and respond with a well-thought-out plan.