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I guess some congratulations are in order for one Vladimir Putin, the Russian kleptocrat who used strategic leaks of hacked information to win the election (or at least the electoral college) for Donald Trump, a thin-skinned narcissist and easily manipulable geopolitical naif.
I mean, we knew that before. But now it’s pretty much official.
The Washington Post reports:
The CIA has concluded in a secret assessment that Russia intervened in the 2016 election to help Donald Trump win the presidency, rather than just to undermine confidence in the U.S. electoral system, according to officials briefed on the matter.
Intelligence agencies have identified individuals with connections to the Russian government who provided WikiLeaks with thousands of hacked emails from the Democratic National Committee and others, including Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman, according to U.S. officials. Those officials described the individuals as actors known to the intelligence community and part of a wider Russian operation to boost Trump and hurt Clinton’s chances.
“It is the assessment of the intelligence community that Russia’s goal here was to favor one candidate over the other, to help Trump get elected,” said a senior U.S. official briefed on an intelligence presentation made to U.S. senators. “That’s the consensus view.”
Yep, that’s right. The outcome of our election was essentially determined by a hostile foreign power — with the active encouragement of Donald Trump, the candidate who benefited from Russia’s interference.
It’s also now clear just how selective Russia’s use of hacked information was. The New York Times reports that the Russians also successfully hacked the Republican National Committee’s email servers, but chose not to release any of these emails.
No wonder Trump is skipping most of his intelligence briefings.
Some people are comparing these revelations to Watergate. I don’t think that’s fair. This is ten times more significant than Watergate. It calls the whole election into question.
Trump is not our President. And he should not be sworn into office unless and until we have a full public reckoning of how exactly he “won” this election.
….Nope. I’m taking a day off songwriting.
There are a lot of really good questions in these threads, so even though I’m not a regular round these parts I thought I’d take the time to make some more substantive comments.
First, on the question of trying Trump for treason: this is unlikely to happen for a variety of reasons, the first and foremost being that there is absolutely no evidence that he has committed that particular crime. His personal knowledge of the Russian hacking is entirely unknown at this point. But even if it does become known, it’s still unlikely that Trump will have committed treason in any legal sense. (Treason is not defined by Congress, BTW, but by Article III of the Constitution.) We are not at war with Russia, and while they are an antagonist they are not currently an enemy of the United States. Trump planning on making policy more friendly to that country and less friendly to NATO might well be foolish, but it is not a crime in any legal sense, and it is certainly not treason.
On the legal questions of crimes that are not treason, the issue is murkier. The hacking of a server is obviously illegal, but the evidence at hand points to that crime having been committed by a foreign national, not anyone in the Trump camp. It is currently illegal for campaigns to accept financial donations from foreign powers, and here it is possible that someone in the Trump camp (though most likely not Trump himself) could have committed a crime — if you can successfully prove that they knew about and approved the hacks beforehand, and if you can get the courts to interpret “donations” far more broadly than the law was originally intended. Even then, however, it’s important to remember that all of our modern US Presidential elections have had various foreign powers and foreign corporate interests attempt to illegally/unethically influence the outcome, and we have never held the parties they were attempting to assist responsible for those actions.
All in all, there is little to do to knock Trump out of office in any legal sense here, unless something else arises that suggests he or his staff took part in the hackings as well. The issue will likely have to become a foreign relations one, with the administration deciding what if any recourse to take against Russia. As the incoming admin will be Trump‘s, though, I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Finally, I would caution people from language like “stole/won the election for Trump.” Partially because it’s not true. What Russia did may or may not have influenced the election, but at least as of today Trump appears to won due to more people voting for him in enough states to gain an electoral majority. Russia might have influenced the vote, but even that’s unclear: there hasn’t been any post- election polling that has suggested that the DNC hacking was what swayed voters in the swing states that Clinton lost.
But the bigger reason to consider not going too far down the “Trump didn’t really win so now we must take action” hole is that it’s an un-winnable battle, legally speaking. There are, however, battles going on right now that, while not as sexy and outrageous as Putin hacking email servers for Trump, might very well be winnable and which all of you could have a very direct impact.
For example. Right now Trump’s cabinet is preparing to with with Congress and the Senate gut both Medicare and Social Security. This will negatively impact a lot of people, but the damage (as always) will disproportionately occur with people of color, LGBTQ, women, and the disabled. The current hope among the GOP leadership is that people will be so focused on other bright shiny objects (like Trump and Putin) that these bills will pass with the public not caring much until well after the fact.
My advice to people here would be to take what ever time, energy, and money you planned to use in the battle to get Hilary elected president (a battle that you can’t win), and use them to fight these fights (a battle that you can and need to win).
My two cents.
The comment of Trump after the leak, and his general character, make me think it’s not impossible he actually colluded with Russia for the elections, which would be treason.
It’s just not proven yet.
Can we make this a troll-free thread, please?
I think “America is no longer a democracy” deserves a bit more gravitas than “LOL U LIBT**DS LOST” from pond scum socks.
Frank:
I don’t recall that quote — can you remind me?
I recall worries that under Trump, Russia might intrude further in the affairs (and territory) of a few countries around it, like Ukraine, the Baltic states, Georgia, etc.
Russia has seemed to be pro-Trump all election long, this isn’t new. What’s new is extra details.
I for one welcome the rule of our tsar protector Vladimir Putin, whose parcimonious plot to vex the vagabonds of feminism has confounded all who oppose it. Mozart presciently predicted this development in The Magic Flute, where Sarastro (analogous to Trump) defeated Clinton (the Queen of the Night) even as they had before been friends. Following the death of Mozart, Russian composers took on his example and those like Tchaikovski became th greatest composers of the 19th century. Putin and Trump will reveal themselves as spies of Cardinal Raymond Burke in his quest to restore the Holy Catholic Church to its former glory. Thus sayeth I, and thus I command fear unto the proponents of abortion, divorce, harlotry and all manner of grave evils.
Fuck off, Thomas Beckett. We’re not in the mood.
@ Frank
Ima use small words, so try to keep up.
Putin and his cronies wanted Trump to win because A.) Trump is easily manipulated, B.) Putin doesn’t want a war. Putin will burn the world if he can’t have it, but he’d rather have it. And Trump will give it to him, if Putin strokes his ego.
That’s it. Not complicated.
Y’know, I was going to joke that the socks are all Mark again, but figured this was big enough news for Reddit to send a troll raid… Buuut nope, they are all Mark again. Sigh.
Mark, the Chaucer Conspiracy Dumbass schtick got boring over a year ago. That’s why you dropped it in favour of the Mark schtick. For fuck’s sake.
Not in the mood? Indeed a worthy statement by one who knoweth that the center cannot hold. I laugh ye Planned Parenthood drones to scorn, and mock your postmodern procrastinations of protest.
I’m not Mark; just the Chaucer person. I stopped trolling here for a while but couldn’t resist now.
Mark, weren’t you in the other thread promising to tell us all about how Trump, Anglin and WTHM were in an evil Jewish conspiracy? Now you’re saying he’s in a good Catholic conspiracy?
@Thomas Beckett
-wields banjo in the most menacing way possible whilst fixing my gaze in your direction-
@Thomas Beckett, hark! Hear I not the heavy tread of four mailèd knights come to lop off your access? Lo! We shall not enshrine your severed IP address as a martyred saint for the relief of the faithful.
I am emailing David. Bye bye.
Is it not coincidental that Mozart died exactly 200 years and 20 days before the collapse of the Soviet Union? Might it mean that he was assassinated because he was about to develop a plan for the union of the Catholic and Orthodox churches, which would have defeated the revolutionary englightenment forever?
I indeed weareth my impending ban with pride, but shall return one day as I travel to a different IP address location. Until then, blessings of peace profound for this Advent season.
Now, now, that’s entirely unfair. The US doesn’t go around messing with elections to get the leaders they want. Their preferred method is to just murder the winners.
Tough talk for a guy who can’t be added to read more than three lines of Yeats.
It’s kind of ridiculous how Trump’s bromance with Putin was flaunted throughout the election we all just kind of ignored it. How was he even allowed to run?
@Thomas à Becket:
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lf3p7eDpTW1qe4sm9.gif
Thomas:
If thou wouldst write antiquated English, write correct antiquated English. “I doeth” is nonsense.
And we shall catch thee, scorn thee, and anon banish thee when thou comest to troll us again.
I know conspiracy theorists are all about their big round numbers under a base 10 number system, but 200 years and 20 days isn’t even big and round.
In which an asshole brags about his intention to continue to intrude in a space where he has been expressly forbidden to go.
Alternatively, you could get a life and find something better to do than sockpuppet again and again in order to troll a blog. Is this really the best thing you can be doing with your time?
I don’t do it that often anymore; I believe it’s been almost a year. Can any of you really claims to be using every second of your life in the most efficient way? Just like my tsar Vladimir Putin, I have a deep love in my heart for all of the marginalized conservative and antifeminist women and it is my task to use unique psychological methods to fight on their behalf.
Look, a pizza joint! Get it!