You might think the Alt-Right — that motley gang of Nazis, Nazi-apologists, and Nazi-apologist-apologists that has provided Donald Trump with some of his most fervent support — would be riding high right now.
Their “God Emperor” has been elected president. Traffic to their most popular websites, from Breitbart to the Daily Stormer, is soaring. The latest National Policy Institute conference, which brought hundreds of alt-righters to Washington DC this past weekend, got more attention from the mainstream media than it ever has before.
It’s that last item that’s turning into a bit of a problem — at least for those alt-rightists who like to pretend that they’re not really Nazis at all. Yesterday I posted a chilling video from the event, showing conference-organizer Richard Spencer, clearly feeling a bit chuffed by the at-right’s recent victories, crying out “hail Trump, hail our people, hail victory” to a large crowd, some of whom responded with Nazi salutes.
D’oh! They’re not supposed to be doing that in public.
And so, as the video of Spencer’s speech went viral, posted on countless news outlets and replayed on cable news, a veritable civil war erupted on the alt-right over Spencer’s words and the now infamous “Hail Trump” salutes.
Alt-right fellow traveler (and erstwhile juice seller) Mike Cernovich, clearly upset by the bad publicity the video was bringing to the movement he has hitched his star to, accused Spencer and the Nazi saluters of being secret shills trying to make the good men of the alt-right look like the Hitler-loving Nazis they so often declare themselves not to be.
“Let’s assume your goal is to normalize Nazis, which is what has been said at Richard Spencer,” Cernovich declared in a blog post with the combative title This is What Controlled Opposition Looks Like.
If you wanted to normalize being a Nazi, would you throw up an Heil Hitler in public after you invited over 100 fake news journalists to your event? Think this one through before forming an opinion.
Note: By “fake news journalists” Cernovich of course means real “news journalists.’
Why then were people at the event throwing up the HH? What tactical or strategic purpose could that possibly serve?
This is what controlled opposition looks like.
The Atlantic (and perhaps the CIA) is building up Richard’s brand, giving him millions in free PR. The fake news media ties Richard to Trump. In exchange for these goodies, Richard throws up a HH.
Damn you, The Atlantic (and perhaps the CIA)!
Cernovich was hardly the only one to cry foul.
Fantasy author and bigot extraordinaire Theodore “Vox Day” Beale didn’t go quite as far as Cernovich. But, in a post on his Vox Popoli blog, he declared the Nazi saluters “idiots” and attacked Spencer himself for being “tactically retarded.”
Beale dismissed the whole “Hail Trump” business as a “minor incident” that had been magnified by the evil mainstream media. He then offered a rather spectacularly backhanded “defense” of Spencer
No, I don’t think Richard is a federal agent or an actual controlled opposition figure,” Beale wrote, before twisting the knife a little.
I think Mike would have been more accurate to say “controllable opposition” or “dancing monkey”.
Usually when you’re defending someone you don’t call them a “dancing monkey,” but whatevs.
There was nothing actually wrong with what Richard said. … It wasn’t a big deal. But it was a foolish thing to do. The media is absolutely slavering to be able to have REAL PROOF that the Alt-Right are no-good, very-evil Nazis so that they can use it as a weapon against President-elect Trump, giving them ANYTHING is tactically retarded.
Nazi salutes in public, in full view of the media, are bad for the Trump.
It’s not about Richard. It’s about Donald Trump. If Richard is genuinely supportive of Trump, then pulling that sort of stunt was the very last thing he should have done. Making yourself the news story at the expense of the individual you are supposedly supporting and celebrating smacks of being self-serving. As Mike said, dress up like a Nazi, speak bad German and wear a swastika armband if you want, just leave Trump out of it.
Richard has failed to learn the lesson of #GamerGate and the principles of 4GW. He wants to be the media-anointed leader of the Alt-Right because he believes, wrongly, that this will help him achieve his objectives. It won’t. As Mike and I have both noted, the media elevates fringe figures to “leadership” specifically in order to attack the movement through them.
Oh, but Beale isn’t jealous of the attention Spencer has been getting. Ha! As if! So not jealous.
I am not opposed to Richard or jealous of Richard, nor do I want the attention he is receiving. I rather like him, I simply don’t think he understands that the media intends for him to become a David Duke figure, a weapon available for deployment against any politician or program that he nominally supports.
Yes, how terrible it is that the media compares people with basically the same views as David Duke to … David Duke!
On VDare.com, meanwhile, anti-immigrant crusader Peter Brimelow attacked the saluters, declaring that their “juvenile bravado undercut NPI’s conference triumph, the cause of immigration patriotism, and VDARE.com.”
But Brimelow somehow managed to blame not them but the media and the anti-anti-immigrant left, noting unhappily that fans of his website “came up to me in consternation” after
Spencer concluded his emotional defense of whites with the words, apparently extemporized: “Hail Trump! Hail Our People! Hail Victory!” He got a standing ovation, but several in the crowd added Nazi salutes. We had been assured that the press had been excluded but experience has taught this cannot be relied upon.
Damn those reporters for … actually reporting!
Also, leftists and the media were also responsible for the Nazi salutes themselves — by unfairly smearing totally not racist anti-immigration crusaders like himself. “[T]his continued vilification,” Brimelow sniffed,
has resulted a younger generation of Americans who, 71 years after the end of World War II, are clearly indifferent to accusations of Nazism, even if just out of bravado. This, too, is the fault of the Left and the gatekeepers of our public debate.
Well, that’s one way of looking at it, I guess. One bizarre, wrong way.
The unlovely and untalented Matt Forney offered a somewhat less backhanded defense of Spencer and his fans’ “Roman salutes.”
While Mike Cernovich recently accused Spencer and NPI of being controlled opposition due to several of the attendees jokingly making Roman salutes at the end of the conference, I have to pour cold water on this notion. The alt-Right is increasingly driven by young men who enjoy trolling for trolling’s sake and getting a rise out of the normies.
IT WAS ALL A JOKE HA HA HA HOW could anyone think that a bunch of people who walk like Hitler, talk like Hitler and salute like Hitler could actually have anything to do with Hitler.
Hell, our nametags even had pictures of Pepe the Frog on them.
PEPE THE FROG. Q.E.D.
While I can see why Cernovich might think the stunt was dumb, it wasn’t motivated by anything other than a desire to offend the MSM’s sensibilities. There are certainly feds who have infiltrated the alt-Right—he’s right to warn us on that front—but Spencer and NPI aren’t among them.
An even stranger, er, analysis of the whole kerfuffle comes from the farther reaches of Anton Lavey cosplayer and skull enthusiast Davis Aurini.
Vox Day corrects some of the wilder claims made by Cernovich (it is unlikely that Richard Spencer is a government plant; his hair is too fabulous), but the thrust of the argument remains. We have been using the tactics of the underdog for some time now. As many have noted, we’re the new anti-establishment hippies … but we’re no longer the underdog – and if we continue to use underdog tactics, we will become no different than the neo-hippies whom we are in the process of replacing. We will continue to fight the last war, and we will lose as certainly as Hitler’s Germany did, paving the way for the destruction of our own people.
So is he suggesting that the main problem with Hitler is that he lost? Who knows.
We cannot hope to get anywhere if we continue to be reactionary. The way to crush the Left isn’t to fight them; then we merely become them. The way to crush the left is to return to the upward pull, to build a civilization which glorifies God and which has earned the Mandate of Heaven. To strive for perfection while forgiving imperfection, rather than defining perfection as whatever we are already, while attacking those who are unlike us.
I’m sorry, I dozed off for a minute there.
What of the man at the center of this alt-hurricane? Richard Spencer is taking the Forney Way, declaring that it was all just one big hilarious joke.
“There’s an ironic exuberance to it all,” Spencer told NBC news. “I think that’s … one of the things that makes the alt-right fun, is that we’re willing to do things that are a bit cheeky.”
SO CHEEKY.
Here’s that video again. I don’t know about you, but I’m having a hard time seeing anything he said as “cheeky” or “ironic,” much less “fun.”
Who are you going to believe, Spencer — or your lying eyes?
@history nerd
I’ve always kinda liked this:
Too bad the author had a bit of a breakdown and deleted all his stuff 🙁
@Pie
Kickass cartoon — it sums up a certain kind of self-indulgent mindset.
*****
The alt-right’s reaction to Richard Spencer’s (kinda, sorta) debut is all over the map.
My takeaway is that devotees of the alt-right (1) hate people, (2) indulge in this hatred when it comes to those who have less power than white men, and (3) shamelessly invoke the “It’s a joke — chill!” copout.
Now, who was Spencer accusing of being soulless? And stupid?
Alt-right devotees seem to be spectacularly ignorant. They have taken no time to reflect on themselves or their actions. They understand nothing of history. They appear to be unable to distinguish between right and wrong.
Blecch.
@Kat
They distinguish between the two extremely well. The problem is the “right” they use and the “right” you mean are slightly different…
@Pie
I suppose it’s to be expected that they would disagree with me.
I am using the commonly understood version of right and wrong, which seems to boil down to Respect others.
Their understanding of what is right is summed up by Richard Spencer: “To be white is to be . . . a conqueror.”
It’s hard to believe that this idiot in an expensive suit is thirty-effin’-eight years old.
******
Holy hell. Who knew that Donald J. Trump was a flip-flopper?!
It’s hard to believe that this idiot in an expensive suit is seventy effin’ years old.
The 141 Stances Donald Trump Took During His White House Bid
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/full-list-donald-trump-s-rapidly-changing-policy-positions-n547801
Kat, thanks, wow that is one long list of self contradictions. Bookmarked for future reference.
I only got part way through it so far. I’m going to refresh myself with Chuck Tingle’s debut of a new category of love interest! WOOLLY MAMMOTH! Squee!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NA9KAYB/
@John (who is probably, no sorry, hopefully, asleep by now – forgot about your insomnia)
Your niece sounds like the universe’s most awesome kid. You’ll probably dismiss this, but it seems to me that you’re a damn fine uncle, too. Her taste in music made me smile – my boy loved Green Day when he was a toddler and still does.
Hope you get some good rest! And the last music link reminded me of how fab Samurai Champloo is, so double thanks.
@Shadowplay,
Thanks for that 🙂
When I posted the image earlier, I was focused on the headline at the bottom (plus I was cross-eyed with fury). As you and Scildfreja pointed out, the golem quote was not specifically in relation to Jews, although there’s a not-terribly-subtle connection. Crooks & Liars have also noted this, here.
@Mish
🙂 You are welcome. Personally, I assume pretty much everything nasty or negative Spencer says is about Jews in some way – he’s a one trick pony – but I do like to check.
Hello.
> Headologist
If you like to use a bit of french words, then you also have the possibility to use “crâneur”, as it seems appropriate…
> WH40K
Old player of IG here (at the time they were all having the same uniform, the same half round helmet with flyeye-like googles, and rifles which were looking like a stick put on a handle). Also played Epic, because it was a bit more strategic, and i was liking the vehicules. Oh, and Necromunda was fun too, but they have stopped it, alas.
Clearly a money pit, have not play for long, concentrating on more traditionnal board games like Arkham Horror.
Have a nice day.
@Pie: the pictures for sad children author is a woman now going by the name Merry Graves. I really wish she hadn’t gone the way she did regarding her comic because some of it (like the transhumanism strips) was terrific.
Did everyone see this? CNN this A.M.
The “movement” unravels, left behind by its own god-king….
Another German here:
As others have said, that kind of overt Nazi-ism would have most likely gotten them ordered to court over here. Schools spend a large amount of time teaching us about the third Reich (over and over again to the point of every student going ‘ugh’) and the thought that anyone could think of Hitler as anything but really fucking bad is astounding.
Mind you, Germany is as likely to move to the right as most other countries, thus the existence of the AfD (and the scary fact that people tolerate that kind of shit).
The point of history is to fucking learn from it, not repeat it. (So fuck the entire alt-righ movement and their thinly veiled fascism.)
@Weird
Saw that last night. It is Don Manini we’re talking about. He lies about everything, he walked back 4 of his election promises yesterday alone, so why believe this?
Having said that, I don’t think you can call Trump a racist. He’s a narcissistic sociopath (almost textbook) and they don’t tend to divide the world into us and them, but more temporarily useful or insignificant.
@Weird (yeah, it CAN happen here) Eddie:
Ooh, their reactions will be fun to watch.
That Mary Sue article about Warhammer 40k made me sad as a fan. I love the franchise, but the overt sexism (and fascism, though I’ve been fortunate in not seeing as much of the latter) of some of the vocal fans has almost made me want to give it up. So many people in the fandom seem to have internalised the Gamer Gate stupidity to the point where any comment like “I would like female Space Marines” or “the Sisters would look more badass without those boob breastplates” are met with “Why do you feminazis want to take away our game!?”
@occasional reader
I think the rules for some of their old discontinued stuff are available online. Inquisitor certainly is/was, and that was the sort of spiritual successor to necromunda (which itself followed on from the rather over-complicated confrontation). I really liked necromunda because you didn’t have to spend a fortune on buying an army and then hundreds of hours painting the damn things. You just need a dozen dudes, tops.
@nequam
I had no idea. The misgendering was certainly not intentional! I suspect all the PFSC stuff was deleted for good, and thanks to the site’s robots policy no copied appeared on teh wayback machine or other archives 🙁 I now make my own backups of stuff that I particularly like online, because stuff on the internet certainly isn’t forever.
@weird eddie
Remember that Trump also said that he didn’t believe that Bannon was part of the alt-reich, and wouldn’t have employed him if he was. I suspect everyone involved believes he’s just saying stuff to pacify the lying press.
http://i.imgur.com/PXcJIcT.png
No and no.
@Pie: quite all right. Ms. Graves seems right now to be doing her best to cover her tracks until such time as she feels like returning to online cartooning or interaction. (I hadn’t even heard her name ’til today when I double-checked my memory that she had transitioned.)
@scented , all
My apologies.
> Pie
I still have the game and the extension, plus one standard metal squad of Goliaths (not mine, but i keep them for a friend, cause we do not like to disperse stuff when we can). The part of domain managing was kind of fun, but some kind of diplomacy should have been fun too.
Never tried Inquisitor. Never been interested in Space Marines themselves, so neither the Ordo Malleus and the Grey Knights.
#pizzagate, explained.
In short, people no longer recognize fake news from actual news and go with what they want to believe.
Today, as put by @kibblesmith in Twitter:
I feel a little guilty, because my favorite game, Dungeons & Dragons, took the golem and turned him into a robot, an inert body animated by an elemental, another monster to fight and another toy to play with if your wizard gets high enough in level. And maybe it shouldn’t have done that.
My kids can just about make it around the simpler tracks in Mario Kart, although if there’s a hazard to fall into they will fall into over and over again, for giggles.
My daughter wants to shear all the sheep in Minecraft, while my son takes a pickaxe, walks to a random point, and digs straight down. We had to stop playing for a bit after he fell into lava and my daughter cried for ten minutes.
We’re going to work up to Fallout, but in the meantime there’s plenty to occupy them, like Final Fantasy, the Tales games, Baldur’s Gate … not to mention tabletop.
My first experience with Yudkowsky was Phil Sandifer’s corollary work on Neoreaction A Basilisk, although I haven’t read NAB itself. So I guess I’m more familiar with Roko’s Basilisk than with Yudkowsky’s singularity thing.
Example of theAlt – Right not getting their own way, I recently saw on the news that Milo’s old school had cancelled a speechifying visit by him citing ‘safety concerns.’ Wasn’t the fact they expelled him for outrageous conduct when he was a teenager a big enough alarm bell ?
Quite the schadenfreude moment…
Stumbled on that last night and I’m not quite sure what to make of it. And by that I mean that I really don’t want to consider that someone that hypocritical can get into power. He always knew about the alt-right. He knew about Bannon, about Breitbart. He knew about David Duke and the KKK endorsement. He knew about Anglin’s Trollmacht, he knew about the GTKRWN crowd.
Just like he fucking knows about the chaos the whole country’s in since he got “elected”, and he can work up the nerve to say something like “there’s only been one or two hate crimes, please stop committing hate crimes”.
He knows exactly who enabled him and who he enables.
As one protester put it : “Build a wall ! Around Trump. I’ll pay for it.”
@Mish
Samurai Champloo is awesome. Awesome ! Nujabes was awesome. CYNE is awesome.
*never could deal with compliments*
(By the way, yus, I was indeed asleep – as for the insomnia, to be fair I’d forgotten about it too until I ran out of hash 😐
Need to head to town as soon as possible for a little supply run ’cause shitty day-sleep really isn’t cutting it.)
@Shadowplay
You can, and you must. It’s what he does, what he says – what he is.
@Falconer
(Warning : blatant fanboyism incoming)
Can I recommend Final Fantasy IX ? It was my first FF, when I was 9, and to this day it’s still my favorite game. It is a bit old, I won’t deny that it is, but it really doesn’t show that much. Plus I recall that it has a neat little “semi-multiplayer” feature in the settings where different characters can be attributed to different controller slots for combat, rather than one person controlling everyone. It’s one glorious way to wreck a fine boss fight strategy and let it degenerate into chaos.
I once had a wonderful conversation with my late rabbi, a German-born gentleman with an amazing sense of humor, who commented that it used to be that if you saw a young man dressed a certain way, you could tell he was a Nazi, but “now many nice young men, good people, wear the boots and shave their heads for fashion, so how can you tell?”
As /tg/ is one of the places where I “socialize” the most, I feel a need to defend 40K by pointing out that it started out as a parody of fascism more in line with Judge Dredd. For example, there’s an entire chapter of Space Marines called the “Dark Angels,” and their founder is named Lion El-Johnson. The Genestealers were a faction that could field limousines. It’s definitely become less funny with time though.
Also Falconer, I owe you an apology because I laughed when you explained how your son dug straight down in Minecraft.
@Sinkable John Your niece sounds like a handful. LOL! Good thing the Vikings didn’t really wear horned helmets, yes? 😉