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Will the sentient robots of the future ally with men or women, MGTOW wonders

Beta male cuck defends woman from robot justice
Beta male cuck defends woman from righteous robot justice

Leave it to the deep thinkers of the Men Going Their Own Way community to ask the tough questions that no one else dares to ask.

For example: In the future, when men are reduced to 5 percent of the population and forced to flee to Mars or Venus, will the sentient robots ally themselves with men or with women?

In the MGTOW subreddit, an aspiring futurist calling himself FalloutFan2 laments what he sees as the inevitable rise of a gynocentric dystopia in which men are more or less bred out of existence, except for a tiny minority that the women keep around for sperm and giggles.

“It’s sad how everything in modern society is already gearing towards a female-only future,” FalloutFan2 notes wistfully.

I think there will come a point where all men rebel against the system and form their own colony on Mars or Venus or whatever, where we’ll bring some female sex-bots for entertainment.

It’s rare that I find myself agreeing with anything I read on the MGTOW subreddit, but if you guys want to go start a MGTOW colony on Venus I will not only support you but help you pack.

Of course the women will just keep using their dildos because they are emotionless beings who care little for actual interaction, whether it be sentient robot or human.

I have to admit that “women are emotionless automatons who prefer dildos to robots because they don’t like talking to people” is a stereotype I have not encountered before.

Do you think the sentient robots will ally themselves with mankind and not womankind?

TRULY THE QUESTION OF OUR AGE

I think that due to their advanced intelligence they will not see a possible future where they could be on equal footing with women (due to the female’s natural inclination to boss everyone around), so they’ll settle for a society where they are equal to men.

I’m pretty sure sentient robot ladies would kick you guys to the curb as quickly as actual human females. Especially since two sentences ago the only sentient robots you were interested in were of the sexy sex slave variety.

Of course, if we do all end up on Mars, women will just eventually send nukes to destroy the colony regardless, out of bitter spite (if they figure out how to press the correct buttons that is, but typically some beta male nuclear scientist would have left blatant instructions beforehand that even a toddler would understand).

Ha ha ladies can’t even nuclear holocaust men right!

Women just can’t handle the fact that men just want to be happy.

Well that’s a bit of an ironic statement to find on the MGTOW subreddit, to put it mildly. I can’t think of a group of men less interested in being happy, or more inclined to wallow in their own bitterness, than MGTOWs.

They can’t comprehend that men are satisfied with an existence of philosophical stoicism, and not artificially superimposing different contrived existentialisms on reality. Either no one but them can be allowed to be happy, or no one period.

Unfortunately, due to this reason I don’t see any possible way it could work out. Women will just kill themselves off once all the men are gone anyway, cuz there’ll be no one to listen to their nagging bullshit.

Better get yourself an agent quick, FalloutFan2, because this sounds like the greatest science fiction novel never written!

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Feline
Feline
4 years ago

Bina:

A truly stoic philosopher would be totally indifferent to his own gonads, or so I would think.

Cat Mara:

Yeah, that kind of annoyed me that MGTOWs have glommed onto Stoicism when I quite like the Stoics. Also, I can’t think of any crowd less stoic than they are!

Paul Beaulieu:

It’s been a while since I studied the Stoics, but I don’t recall whingeing about how other people “won’t let them be happy” being a part of the philosophy of Stoicism.

Sure, but wanking about stoicism on the internet is a kissing cousin to wanking about Nietzsche on the internet, and we all know about that, don’t we?

Frigid Virgin (hey, I'm trying to stop global warming over here, what's your excuse?)
Frigid Virgin (hey, I'm trying to stop global warming over here, what's your excuse?)
4 years ago

@ Nidi: Yes, that. Thank you! (Seriously, if the MGTOWs would just stop harping on about us evil women, they’d be so much happier. So much happier.)

@ Cat Mara: That was some story. I’m… not happy that I read it, but… it was fairly accurate, I think. (And yeah, depressing as hell. You weren’t kidding.)

Patricia Kayden
Patricia Kayden
4 years ago

MGTOW need to watch “Ex Machina”. The ending should give them nightmares. Lol!

Bina
4 years ago

I think there will come a point where all men rebel against the system and form their own colony on Mars or Venus or whatever, where we’ll bring some female sex-bots for entertainment.

Meanwhile, here on Earth, women finally have realistic male sex dolls to get it on with.

Dear mig-toes, you are hereby redundant.

(Also, we have kitties…which may not do anything for our sexual gratification, but which make us ever so much happier in other ways!)

magnesium
magnesium
4 years ago

Ah yes, stoicism, the philosophy of complaining constantly about all the things in life you feel you are entitled to and requiring the invention of sentient robot sex slaves to attend to your every urge and need.

Frigid Virgin (hey, I'm trying to stop global warming over here, what's your excuse?)
Frigid Virgin (hey, I'm trying to stop global warming over here, what's your excuse?)
4 years ago

@ Cat Mara: I did… a thing. I don’t know if it’s a good thing, but I did it. Um, here:

Thing starts:

XIII

I want you.

She says that. Her voice is so soft and breathy when she does, that he can’t help but believe her. She’s saying it because she’s programmed to. He got the Needy365 model, after all. It was a bit pricy, but you might as well go ham if you’re going to go, at all.

I need you.

Oh, she moans that. Oh, how she moans that. No one’s ever needed him before. It’s… intoxicating. He was always the one left behind. Overlooked. Maybe he should have put himself out there more, but… Rejection. It hurts. She never hurts him, unless he asks for it.

I love you.

She… doesn’t say that. He says it, sometimes, when he can’t help himself. Whispers it into the fine, fiber-optic strands of her hair. (She’s mostly a redhead, but he’s fond of Nubile Slave mode, even if it’s a bit racist.) Moans it into her rubber-so-soft-it-feels-real skin. He’s pathetic. He knows it.

Forever.

He’s growing older. She’s not. She never will. It makes him feel dirty and lonely. And ashamed. Somehow, it’s also… comforting? That he’ll end, but she’ll go on, and maybe remember him? (She won’t remember him. When he dies, she’ll be wiped clean and sold to the highest bidder, at the next Used Bot Auction. He doesn’t think of that. Ever.)

I want you. I need you. I love you. Forever.

She’s not real. He’s okay so long as he can forget about that.
He’s real. He’s okay so long as he can forget about that.

When he can’t… he reminds himself that rejection? Hurts.

Thing ends.

Yeah. That happened. *slinks off*

Ooglyboggles
4 years ago

@Frigid Virgin (hey, I’m trying to stop global warming over here, what’s your excuse?)

Well then, you certainly tapped into the male insecurity that would make a person seek out this form of unreciprocated love. Not that I would know anything about that ha ha ha…

Name
Name
4 years ago

“A truly stoic philosopher would be totally indifferent to his own gonads”

but are the gonads stoic?

Frigid Virgin (hey, I'm trying to stop global warming over here, what's your excuse?)
Frigid Virgin (hey, I'm trying to stop global warming over here, what's your excuse?)
4 years ago

@ Ooglyboggles:

First: your ‘nym always makes me smile. It just sounds so happy!

Second: Whenever I read anything from the MGTOWs, I’m always left with the sense that they’re a bunch of people that once upon a time asked someone out and got rejected. The pain was so devastating that the only thing left to do was to go whine about it on the Internet. Loudly. And at length. It almost seems like a coping mechanism of some kind, in fact.

Well, maybe. I’ve never asked someone out, because I don’t think I could deal with the pain of rejection. Of course, I’ve never whined about it online, either, so…

Valentine
Valentine
4 years ago

‘Sperm and giggles’. Sounds much more nice than anything these robot fans are suggesting.

Also why must they all like Fall Out so much? It’s okay, but generally there is a lot better titles out there. But these guys treat it like it’s some incredible clever veiw of the future. As if nuclear war isn’t one of the most over done things through all creative industrie not just games. Some even write fan fiction then publish it on amazon for ACTUAL MONEY. *cough* davis aurini *cough*

These guys so predicable no wonder you can play bingo with them. But no fun though if you fill up your card only in the first round. XD

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
4 years ago

@Valentine,

And why Fallout, particularly its current incarnation? It has numerous badass female characters; you can even play the mc as a woman; and one of your primary driving quests is to find your child. Doesn’t sound very migtoe to me 😛

LindsayIrene
4 years ago

I think we’ll only nuke them if they try to come back. Cuz if they’re actually going

comment image

Lea
Lea
4 years ago

She has and IQ of 1,001.
She has a jumpsuit on.
She’s also a telephone.

…Ill never hear Twilight the same way again.

Tessa
Tessa
4 years ago

Bina:

Meanwhile, here on Earth, women finally have realistic male sex dolls to get it on with.

Dear mig-toes, you are hereby redundant.

Men-liking women have had male real dolls for almost 20 years, and these guys are unfortunately still around. *sadface*

FalloutFan2:

I think there will come a point where all men rebel against the system and form their own colony on Mars or Venus or whatever, where we’ll bring some female sex-bots for entertainment.

I think that due to their advanced intelligence they will not see a possible future where they could be on equal footing with women (due to the female’s natural inclination to boss everyone around), so they’ll settle for a society where they are equal to men.

Because the class of people considered only “entertainment” is tooootes equal everybody!

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

Given their propensity for pompous gasbaggery, Venus might therefore be the best place for MGTOWs.

Ah, but you see, the most famous Cloud City was run by a black man who flirted with a white woman and white genocide race traitor cuck cuck bacawk.

… Does it even count as a joke when most of ’em actually believe this?

TreePerson
TreePerson
4 years ago

@Mish I think they want the fantasy of being able to do anything you want in a post-apocalyptic wonder I mean wasteland,
Fallout is well known and open ended enough that you can mostly ignore the main story if you want (or even completely remove it with mods).

Its probably related to the general societal collapse fantasies a lot of manosphere types have,
you know the ones where they become the tribal warlords all the women are throwing themselves at for protection (and odds are there is a fallout mod for that).

Tessa
Tessa
4 years ago

Mish:

And why Fallout, particularly its current incarnation? It has numerous badass female characters; you can even play the mc as a woman; and one of your primary driving quests is to find your child. Doesn’t sound very migtoe to me 😛

Little known fact, if playing the male character, you’re only searching for the kid to get a paternity test to make sure you weren’t cucked.

EJ (The Orphic Lizard)

Fallout is one of these things that’s good enough that everyone is going to try to find a reading of it which places it into their own camp. It’s similar to the way that neo-Nazis have found interpretations of Lord of the Rings that make it support their views, despite it being written by a hardcore anti-Nazi and being about a multi-ethnic band of heroes seeking to put a mixed-ethnicity person on the throne.

All the Fallout games that I’ve played have had a strong theme of contrasting badass-lone-individualism with the strength of cooperating with a community. I’ve always played them as a pro-cooperation person, but if someone was an antisocial asshole then they could well play it the other way and see the game’s plot as supporting their views.

Cat Mara
4 years ago

@Frigid Virgin

Thing starts:

😵

wild applause

They really don’t get it, do they? What they’re asking for?

Cat Mara
4 years ago

@Paul Beaulieu:

@Cat Mara – I like it. Could be the basis for an interesting short story.

Thank you. I started writing one but it got kind of horrible and I couldn’t continue… 😕

Cat Mara
4 years ago

This is a bit from the short story that I wrote, a sort of “Dawn of the Planet of the Sexbots” piece. The background is that the protagonist is the co-founder of a biotech startup developing an analogue of the human musculoskeletal system for use in artificial limbs… but the Greedy, Evil Venture Capitalist™ funding them has other applications in mind. The protagonist, close to burnout, has been placed on administrative leave and given a prototype to… relax with, much to his chagrin.

The following morning, Brandon woke early.

In every way, the warm sleeping figure (or the one feigning sleep) beside him was indistinguishable from a human body. In the dim morning light that spilled through the cracks in the blinds Maya was ghostly, its long black hair a pool of shadows on the pillow. In the detached, almost meditative state of mind he often fell into in those few minutes after waking, he noticed the attention to detail that had been lavished on it– the short, stray hairs on either side of her slim neck, a tiny mole on its right shoulderblade. The strangeness of the whole business struck him again– were there focus groups held to decide on the optimal placement of her birthmarks to maximise desirability across market
segments? Or was it some poor intern’s job down at Shangdu to dot moles at random on its body in some glorified paint application? In some respect, was it any different from the strange genetic machinations that determined the location of moles and freckles on his own body, or those of his lovers? He was seized again by the notion that it was all just a sham, that Maya was as she appeared, an attractive young woman hired to play a part in some demented game of Blake’s. But the demonstration in Blake’s office…

He hugged Maya closer. At this distance, it did not smell like a person. Maybe Shangdu couldn’t make a good imitation of a person’s body odour. Maybe they didn’t want to. She smelled… neutral, an almost undetectable scent, something generically floral, like someone straight from the shower.

Like many men whose pursuits tended to the intellectual and the technical, Brandon’s interactions with women were mostly unsatisfactory for all concerned. The few relationships he had had tended to fizzle out (or on some occasions, explode spectacularly) as a certain phase of his work rose to consume all else in his life. Possessed as he was with not so much a wandering eye as a wandering mind, the legendary extent to which he could become distracted– from things like birthdays or anniversaries or, when truly buried in some new obsession, things like basic nutrition or hygiene– tended to put a strain on relationships.

He had few women friends, and none of them particularly close, a thing which he felt a little guilty about.

At some level, he almost resented women– not personally, not in the way some of his peers did, in whom longing and rage had long ago curdled into something altogether toxic– but at some kind of abstract biological level. No, he corrected himself, he resented femaleness, for the way that women’s bodies spoke to his own, a distraction that he was hard-wired for in a way he couldn’t easily ignore. That some vast mental edifice painstakingly constructed could be demolished by a chance view or the fleeting thought of the curve– just so— of a woman’s breast, or the sound of a woman’s voice, was infuriating to him. That some ancient subconscious mechanism, some biological tyrant within him could decide at a party or other gathering that that woman– yes, that one, over there– ticked all the boxes on some internal checklist compiled by random genetics and social programming, and propel him across the room and into an increasingly inane and desperate conversation… or his own shame and embarrassment at being unable to respond appropriately on the few occasions where the roles were reversed and a woman showed every interest in him while he felt less than nothing for her. Or his awareness of his own shallowness at his being attracted to conventionally beautiful women, and of his hypocrisy at feeling that such women ought to overlook his spreading gut or often-haphazard personal grooming to be with him. At these times, he often took an almost bitter delight in masturbation, in thwarting the tyrant with a few frenzied tugs after a binge of Internet porn. All in all, he felt that if men and women could just somehow get this whole distracting sex business out of the way, everything would be much more pleasant. Maybe sex robots were the way to go after all.

For some reason the story of Gyges popped into his head, the ancient Greek parable that some acquaintance of his in university had explained to him during one night of drunken undergraduate philosophizing. Gyges, the poor but virtuous man who found a ring that made him invisible and, freed from the consequences of his actions, became by turns a rapist, a murderer and a usurper. This… thing he lay beside was not human. It was a machine, cunningly constructed to resemble a human being but a machine nonetheless. He could do anything with it, to it. Every bizarre act he’d ever seen enacted in pornography, the things he’d never dared request of an actual partner in his life, he could do now without compunction. At some level, Maya wanted him to do this; it had made that quite clear the night before. That was its function. It existed to service these desires. Why, then, did he hesitate?

Part of it was Blake. Blake, obviously, was playing some twisted game with him in forcing Maya on him, a game whose purpose he couldn’t fathom but he knew he wanted no part of it. But if Blake hadn’t essentially made him take Maya and he had found out about the project himself, would he have been tempted to take her– it– her– home for a “test run”? Probably not, he thought ruefully. It was more than likely plain old pride that made him reluctant to use Maya for its intended purpose. It was an admission of failure, of defeat, tapping out of the ring of human interpersonal relationships forever…

Idly, Brandon wondered if every user of Maya, were Blake to follow through with his plan of turning it into a product, would be subject to the same existential reflection. If so, they could be looking at the greatest product flop since the Edsel. The thought made him snigger. Maya stirred at the sound, rolling around in his arms until she was facing him.

“What’s the matter?” she asked.

Cat Mara
4 years ago

I just thought of another issue (with apologies for filling the thread with my gibberish) with these guys’ profession of Stoicism: are they aware that at least one of the Stoic philosophers, Epictetus, was a former slave? While I imagine slavery was a fact of life for the ancient Stoics and something they felt they couldn’t do much about, I doubt they would be happy for self-professed “Stoics” calling for the creation of a slave race to service their carnal needs. Because that’s what this lot are doing.

Moggie
Moggie
4 years ago

Given the phenomenal cost of sending mass to Mars, the sexbots for the colony would need to be multi-purpose. In fact, it would be best to send them first, so that they could build the habitats, set up water extraction plants, get the hydroponic farms established, create the all-important sexbot factory etc etc. Then, when all of this is ready for human occupation, send the B-Ark full of MGTOWs. Trouble is, if these roboladies are so all-round capable and self-sufficient, what if they decide they don’t need you?

Cat of Many Faces
Cat of Many Faces
4 years ago

@Cat Mara + Frigid Virgin

Wow, wonderful writing! Like, holy shit those were awesome!

Do either of you write professionally?

Cat Mara
4 years ago

@Cat of Many Faces:

Wow, wonderful writing! Like, holy shit those were awesome!

Thank you, fellow cat-person! I’m glad you enjoyed them.

(Does that cat thing where a cat sitting beside another one ignores the other one but doesn’t ignore the other one at the same time 😛)

Do either of you write professionally?

Not me. I’m just an IT geek who likes writing stories. Sometimes, I even finish them. I’m one of those weird programmers who doesn’t mind documenting things because, writing!

EJ (The Orphic Lizard)

Sometimes, I even finish them.

Now that is impressive.

(Speaking as a man whose hard drive has a number of unfinished stories and a half-finished novel on it.)

Seven of Mine
Seven of Mine
4 years ago

And why Fallout, particularly its current incarnation?

Fallout in its current incarnation has plenty of room for MGTOWs to identify with it.

FALLOUT 4 SPOILERS AHEAD:

Siding with The Institute seems right up Migtoe Alley what with the whole business of making sentient robots for the purpose of enslaving them.

Siding with Brotherhood of Steel revolves around anti-synth bigotry as well as BoS generally being a super sketchy premise to begin with. They came into being as a tiny, insular, cult-like group who decided to take it upon themselves to arbitrate who is worthy to possess advanced technology and to then grant themselves the authority to confiscate said technology from anyone they deem unworthy. And, I’m sure, totally coincidentally, they themselves are always worthy and the technology they confiscate is almost always military in nature and increases their own power.

The Minutemen are also totally on board with anti-synth bigotry even though eradicating synths isn’t their main goal. Even the Railroad’s approach to protecting existing synths is to quite cheerfully blow up the Institute and everyone inside it.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
4 years ago

@ Cat Mara,
In that last story extract, were you slipping between ‘she’ and ‘it’ on purpose? If yes, it’s effective – very disorienting.

@ Tessa,
Little known fact, if playing the male character, you’re only searching for the kid to get a paternity test to make sure you weren’t cucked.

*snort*

@everyone re Fallout 4, I realise that it’s anyone’s narrative in this game, basically. This is even more so with the recent DLC, and mods for console (yay). I was just being cheeky 🙂

Jesalin
Jesalin
4 years ago

@Bina

(Also, we have kitties…which may not do anything for our sexual gratification, but which make us ever so much happier in other ways!)

And chocolate!!

gelar
gelar
4 years ago

I think there will come a point where all men rebel against the system and form their own colony on Mars or Venus or whatever, where we’ll bring some female sex-bots for entertainment.

Of course the women will just keep using their dildos because they are emotionless beings who care little for actual interaction, whether it be sentient robot or human.

I turned away from the screen. My heartbeat increased, my face flushed. I nearly laughed but, “No,” I told myself. “You can’t laugh. People are still asleep.”

Cat Mara
4 years ago

@Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy:

@ Cat Mara,
In that last story extract, were you slipping between ‘she’ and ‘it’ on purpose? If yes, it’s effective – very disorienting.

Yes, that was the intent. Glad to hear it worked! (Now, to actually try and finish that story without some kind of nervous breakdown…)

Lea
Lea
4 years ago

Women are emotionless, but they crave happiness and become so enraged that they will hunt you down on Venus and nuke you from orbit if they think you’re happy too. We are simotaneously filled with emotions and utterly devoid of them while we both do nothing and control everything. (Even the sex bots, apparently.)

Men are so stoic that they need sexy robots to entertain them on Venus because women won’t serve them on Earth and do annoying things like have jobs, opinions and interests, age and exist while fat. Men’s needs are just so simple and pure.

Trufax.

Weird (and anxious) Eddie
Weird (and anxious) Eddie
4 years ago

It was an admission of failure, of defeat, tapping out of the ring of human interpersonal relationships forever…

to paraphrase a favorite spoken word poem, “I promise you there is no sexbot in the UNIVERSE sentient (or sexual) enough to make you Like yourself

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

only marginally related, but, for all the trolls reading this, I found you guys an awesome Macho Nacho recipe that you should try

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHF2hDuH5HE

Enjoy!

(pssst, everybuddy, it’s totally full of subliminal messaging! Waahahahahahaaa!)

comment image

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
4 years ago

Lea

Women are emotionless, but they crave happiness and become so enraged that they will hunt you down on Venus and nuke you from orbit if they think you’re happy too. We are simultaneously filled with emotions and utterly devoid of them while we both do nothing and control everything. (Even the sex bots, apparently.)

Men are so stoic that they need sexy robots to entertain them on Venus because women won’t serve them on Earth and do annoying things like have jobs, opinions and interests, age and exist while fat. Men’s needs are just so simple and pure.

Trufax.

Such a perfect summary.

PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
4 years ago

Oh, Scildfreja Unnýðnes, THANK YOU for that link! (And the perfect Fluttershy gif.)

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

@PeeVee, that cooking channel is awesome and you should go watch all of it :3 Especially instructions on how to chop an onion.

PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
4 years ago

@Scildfreja Unnýðnes:

Welp, my afternoon is booked. 😆

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

This one is where I learned everything I know about the human brain:

PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
4 years ago

This guy is hilarious and brilliant!!

Thank you so much for this!
Thankyouthankyouthankyou!

Virgin Mary
Virgin Mary
4 years ago

I honestly do not think there will ever be sentient robots. There will be robots and computers which are increasingly better at feigning life, but at the end will only be Turing machines. Having robots with their own ‘life’, inner thoughts and feelings is impossible. Take a look at the internet, it has enough connections to function as a primitive ‘brain’ but is it any closer to actually being conscious? It is probably even less conscious than a worm, a bacteria or an amoeba.
Seems these oh so rational MRA types have trouble separating fact from science fiction.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

oh dear

Somebody pushed the frejabutton

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt25koAqOO1qzrlhgo6_250.gif

There will be robots and computers which are increasingly better at feigning life, but at the end will only be Turing machines

The closer we look at how our own minds work, the more we realize that we’re nothing but Turing machines ourselves. Specifically, we know that our neurological structure is mathematically equivalent to a HMM, which is a representation of a UTM – a Universal Turing Machine.

This is not to belittle our consciousness or our souls, but it does raise some questions about whether there are other things worthy of ennobling. Animals are the first to consider, given how close we are to them. Computer networks are … well, I’ll get to that in a moment.

Having robots with their own ‘life’, inner thoughts and feelings is impossible.

How is it impossible? You follow this up with a statement of “Look at this computer, it isn’t conscious” as proof. That’s a single example. Even if I were to take your statement as true (I don’t!), it’s just a single example. You can’t make a universal statement with one example.

Take a look at the internet, it has enough connections to function as a primitive ‘brain’ but is it any closer to actually being conscious?

Erm…

Here’s the thing. We can’t give a meaningful definition of consciousness. We don’t know how to describe it, all of our descriptions are circular and self-referential. What we can do is limited. We can:

1) declare that we are conscious. Human being == conscious. This is an assertion, but it’s a generally accepted assertion.

2) describe how human brains work to greater or lesser degree.

That’s all we’ve got. So, we use #2 to describe how brains work, then we can look out in the world for things that are similar. The more similar it is, the more likely it is that it’s conscious.

This is why a few years ago an international society of neuroanatomists and cognitive neuroscientists declared that the official stance of the scientific community is that all mammals should be considered conscious to greater or lesser degree, and that many other non-mammalian animals should also be considered conscious. They declared this because of the strong conformity between how the human brain works and how animal brains work.

Now, digital systems don’t have analogous structures, but they can process information in the same patterns if they’re set up to do so. I work with those sorts of processes. As time progresses and those processes become larger and more sophisticated, there will be less and less reason to assume that they don’t have some sort of consciousness.

I’m not saying that computers will become conscious. I’m saying that we have no reason to assume they won’t, and certainly no reason to assume they can’t. The only reason we have to assume that is by arguing that humans/biological creatures are just better, and can hold a magical “consciousness” quality that artificial processes can’t. Just like the Victorians assumed animals were clockwork organisms with no soul and no awareness, no ability to feel pain. I don’t think that’s the way we should be looking.

It is probably even less conscious than a worm, a bacteria or an amoeba.

Mm. Comparing computer and biological systems has a fairly long tradition. A decade or so ago, the most sophisticated computer had roughly the same processing power as a nematode – so, a worm. That was during the nacent years of the internet, before ubicomp and IoT and ubiquitous wireless. Now? Sophisticated computing devices crush those old specifications. And that’s without considering cloud computing.

There we are. Sorry for the ramble! I’m sorry if it seems I was coming after you, too, Virgin Mary – I’m not! You’ve just touched on a topic that I get into lots of debates over, so I can’t say no to the debate again!

Weird (and deeply concerned about the election) Eddie
Weird (and deeply concerned about the election) Eddie
4 years ago

@ Scildfreja; @ Virgin Mary

Several of the science-fiction writers of the 1950’s-60’s postulated at length on this subject. In Heinlein’s “Moon is a Harsh Mistress”, the protagonist computer, Holmes IV came alive (or woke up, or gained self-awareness, or in some way gained the ability to pull practical jokes). Heinlein explained this as:

They kept hooking hardware into him … Human brain has around ten-to-the-tenth neurons. By third year Mike had better than one and a half times that number of neuristors. And woke up. Somewhere along evolutionary chain from macromolecule to human brain self-awareness crept in. Psychologists assert it happens automatically whenever a brain acquires certain very high number of associational paths. Can’t see it matters whether paths are protein or platinum.

The Internet hasn’t (and I contend it won’t) woke up because it is not a “network of switches”, it’s a repository of information, a giant memory. There are several very large array parallel processing computer networks hooked to it, I suppose some are getting close to that “magic” number of associational paths, I don’t know, maybe some have blown past that number by orders of magnitude. Maybe one (or more) of them has become self-aware… (alternatively, maybe the postulate is just wrong)?

A comedian whose name escapes me once said that what defines us as human is humor, specifically “puns” and other base humor. I guess that explains it…. A macrocomputer network gained sentience, hacked the newsfeeds, the polls and the voting machines and gave us… Trump…. 🙁

Tosca
Tosca
4 years ago

…women will just keep using their dildoes…

So…women are actually GTOW and using sexbots. No wonder he despises us. Everyone knows the thing to do is loudly fantasise about GTOW and using sexbots. What amateurs we women be.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

@Weird Eddie, yeah, the internet itself isn’t going to “wake up” or something. But there are plllenty of coordinated networked systems that tick all the boxes. Like the Googles.

dun dun dunnnnnn

Frigid Virgin (hey, I'm trying to stop global warming over here, what's your excuse?)
Frigid Virgin (hey, I'm trying to stop global warming over here, what's your excuse?)
4 years ago

@ Cat Mara: Thank you! I always worry if I’m stepping on toes when playing in other people’s sandboxes, so it’s really nice to hear you liked it. And yeah, they really don’t.

@ Cat with many faces: Thank you so much! No, I don’t write professionally, but I really want to. It’s pretty much the only thing I’m kind of good at, TBH.

@ Virgin Mary: TWINS!! … I’m so sorry.

Weird (and deeply concerned about the election) Eddie
Weird (and deeply concerned about the election) Eddie
4 years ago

Good news/bad news dichotomy here…

Good news, technological capability is expanding exponentially, so the [whatever]bots are not long in coming….

Bad news, at least in the sci-fi community… they always seem to try to take over our s**t….

🙁

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
4 years ago

Sorry about the mucked up blockquotes on my comment – it looked fine on my phone, I swear :\ ah well, I guess I’m a true mammoth now…

Am I the only one who comes in here curious to see what Weird Eddie has put in his parentheses today?

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

Would we know a truly self-aware AI when we saw it?

Weird (and deeply concerned about the election) Eddie
Weird (and deeply concerned about the election) Eddie
4 years ago

read this

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/30/opinions/bundy-acquittal-shows-disparity-joseph/index.html

@ Mish

Thanx, I do it because my computer (home and work) and my fone are set up to dump passwords, etc. on shutdown, so I have to re-login each time… so I thought I’d get creative. Right now I’m scared sh*tless that the country is going to give the keys to the kingdom to an overgrown 2-year-old 🙁