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Ten Days Now: Election, etc Open Thread

Cheeto Jesus
Cheeto Jesus

So it’s ten days until the election now, and I cannot wait until this nightmare is over. Talk about it, or whatever else you want to talk about. No trolls, MRAs, Trumpkins, etc.

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Ooglyboggles
3 years ago

Oh, so that happened. Um, well, that felt long overdue ever since I read this blog.

GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
3 years ago

Gert could have make its point in one short sentence: “I’m cocksure that I’m smarter than youse guys.”

Dalillama
Dalillama
3 years ago

@joekster

Doesn’t have the same religious connotations, but that’s not a bad thing. Thanks.

It does if you use it in a religious context. Brethren (and sistren) only have a religious connotation because the King James bible was popular for a long ass time and didn’t change to brothers and sisters when the rest of the language did.

Kat
Kat
3 years ago

@joekster
“Kin” is an inclusive synonym for “brethren.”

And I appreciate the Lakota American Indian way of expressing oneness and harmony with all forms of life — humans, animals, rocks, valleys, and so on — by referring to it all as “all my relations” or “all my relatives.”

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
3 years ago

Aaaaw, I missed Gert blowing up? And he called me out specifically? And he called me your Highness?

(Am I royalty here? Was this a coronation?)

http://cdn.squares.im/pony/pic/photo/2013/06/937642bf165973a8da825905c40954f2_500.jpg

Loyal Subjects, we art most pleased at this jovial celebration of troll-joustings upon the great greens of the Mammoth Court

Srsly tho, you guys are the best <3

As for you, Gert! I will happily reply. Feel free to send you reply by carrier-pigeon or perhaps signal drum?

The US spends millions upon millions in foreign aid work throughout the globe. Sure, they sink piles more into the military and into Israel (which I was not counting), but despite this they still provide an incredible amount of foreign aide. Double that of the UK in total, as it turns out. They do good work in Africa and SE Asia, and whatever you think of them, you should respect their generosity in this regard. I do.

(Also, as a note – people who complain about zionists tend to turn out to be fascists. Not saying you are one, but language is an indicator of cognitive semantic structure. Be careful of the seas you swim in.)

Second, emails. Yes, I am concerned about those emails! Not because Hillary Clinton is especially corrupt, mind you – she isn’t. She’s a politician, they’re all like that. It’s gross and awful, yes, and I dislike corruption in general. Politicians have to balance between enacting the will of the people and appeasing the corruptors, and it’s disgusting.

Trump is one of the corruptors. Only an idiot would think that the best way to end corruption is to put the corruptor in charge. I’m sure that you aren’t that sort of idiot, are you Gert? No, of course not. That’d be silly!

As for Bernie and the whole “keeping her honest” thing, I think that isn’t the way to put it. Hillary – and most politicians – hate the fundraising and the groveling. They want to actually do the politics and work on laws. (Not sure what the R’s are up to, but every political figure I’ve talked to or seen interviewed when speaking honestly after they resigned has agreed with this). Bernie’s movement at this point is about giving Hillary the lever that she needs, and the Congress needs, to pry the hands of corporate money off of the government.

It ain’t about Bernie at all anymore – it’s about progressives staying active and proving to the politicians that they can fight the corruption and win. That’s an excellent goal, and I have high hopes for Hillary and Bernie both.

You seem to care about ending corruption, Gert, but here’s the thing – it seems like you’re willing to bulldoze whoever and whatever is needed to fight that corruption. That’s why Bernie lost. All he could talk about was money in politics. That’s a huge problem, but it’s not all of the problems that the Americans face today. He was tone deaf to the problems he needed to have compassion for.

Hillary, on the other hand, has that compassion. She’s also capable of reading when a movement is ready to go forward. She’s seen that America is ready to fight money in politics – now we get to see if she’s ready to pick up that torch. I’m hopeful and eager – I’m still following Wolf-PAC and Democracy Now, don’t get me wrong – and with effort, America will have its democracy back.

As for the republican haybale, he’ll complain bitterly about how it was rigged to his youtube Trump TV audience, like every other macho crybaby that’s been kicked to the curb by reality.

(h-how was that? Do I keep the crown?)

weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo

Well, Gert finally got his wish! We’ll see if he comes back.

I find it interesting that he’s so judgmental of Americans, criticizing us from the left but he claims to come from England? Like England doesn’t have a long history of racism, classism, and imperialism? As well as current issues like Brexit, the corresponding increase in the harassment of non-white Brits and the murer of Jo Cox.

I mean, the US deserves to be judged for all for all those things too. I’m just saying. Pot meet kettle.

Kat
Kat
3 years ago

Although Gert’s run as a troll was cruelly cut short (Thanks, Obama!), this individual might be a Troll of Yore.

Stamina: 4 points

Amusement value: 4 points

Total: 8 points out of 10

In addition, this person brazenly entered a posted No Trolls zone. Gert gets an extra-credit point for chutzpah, bringing the total to 9 out of 10 points.

These results, however, are preliminary.

What we don’t know is how long Gert can maintain this trollishness. A Troll of Yore, as I understand it, can perform trollery 24/7 for days in a row with no slacking of amusement value.

Kat
Kat
3 years ago

@Scildfreja

h-how was that?

Brilliant. As always.

Do I keep the crown?

Although it is frowned upon to miss one’s own coronation, sometimes dinner, chores, selfies with one’s cat, and so on, interfere.

So yes, you get to keep all the crown.

Ray of Rays
Ray of Rays
3 years ago

So yes, you get to keep all the crown.

…huh? Oh, fine.

*returns crown jewel*

Wasn’t stealing it, I just wanted to see if it was real fire opal. >_>

Kat
Kat
3 years ago

@Ray of Rays

Wasn’t stealing it, I just wanted to see if it was real fire opal. >_>

Snort.

Margot
Margot
3 years ago

When I made my comment on the second comment page I was having a bad mood and was annoyed and I apologise for being too harsh.

Nick G
Nick G
3 years ago

Hmm. Gert was certainly unnecessarily rude, and used a couple of sexist insults – and of course David is fully entitled to ban anyone he wants – but a lot of the responses to him were unjustified. There is noithing racist in saying Obama has been a great disappointment, and nothing intrinsically* antisemitic either in strongly criticising Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians – which has been abominable, and has been strongly criticised by many Jews, including Israeli Jews – or in referring to Zionists as Zionists (“Zionist bonobos” was admittedly dubious, and indeed plain bizarre – after all, bonobos are by reputation peaceable and laid-back). There is, indeed, a well-known body called The World Zionist Organization which is, believe it or not, a world organization of Zionists. And (whatever his confusions about who released what) Gert’s criticisms of Clinton as an establishment politician, warhawk, and suck-up to Wall Street bankers are entirely justified. Yes, she is infinitely better than the Trumplegroper, but that’s a bar so low it would be challenging to a champion limbo dancer.

*Yes, criticism of Israel and Zionists can be antisemitic, but accusations of antisemitism can also be used to deflect such criticism.

Nick G
Nick G
3 years ago

There was also a distinct hint of “how-dare-this-Brit-criticise-AMURRICA” about one or two responses to Gert. Either the criticisms are justified, or they are not – where the critic comes from is irrelevant.

Margot
Margot
3 years ago

I agree, Nick G. I don’t think Gert’s name-calling was very nice at all and it shouldn’t be allowed but a lot of the hate went straight over my head. Not being a massive Clinton supporter or being critical of Obama is sexist and racist?! And whoah there with the assumptions and insinuations. (“Oh, you think Hillary is dishonest because she’s a woman?! How sexist” etc) But oh well. I shouldn’t say too much either, I’m new here anyway. I’m sorry for my first somewhat rude commentaar in this thread though, I shouldn’t have said it like that.

GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
3 years ago

(1) I think people who feel that Obama was a major disappointment had grossly inflated expectations of what he would be able to accomplish. He got Obamacare through against total Republican obstruction, and it was a less than ideal program in large part because he had to have the vote of several conservative Democratic Senators (particularly Joe Lieberman, who is from Connecticut where the insurance industry is very big). Obamacare was then demonized by dishonest Republicans, which resulted in Democratic losses in Congress that prevented him from doing much through legislation for the rest of his terms. The main problem is that the US people did not elect a Congress that would work with him. Most non-US people here live in parliamentary systems and are not familiar with the sort of gridlock that you can get in a US-type system.

(2) As to HRC, I believe that there are a lot of people who are uncomfortable with the idea of a woman President but don’t want to say so, so they latch on to the baseless scandals as an excuse. And please don’t expect a lot from her. I think she will be as progressive as Congress will allow her to be, but for the moment that’s probably not much. The probability is that Congress will put most of their effort into investigations of the HRC “scandals”, and possibly even impeach her, which only requires a majority vote in the House (she will not be convicted, as the Republicans can’t get to the required 2/3 in the Senate). The best hope is that people will get sick of the Republicans and vote more of them out in 2018 (which according to recent patterns should be a great year for Republicans).

It seems possible that the Republican Party will blow itself up over the increasingly divergent opinions between the Corporatists and the Trumpians — it’s certainly a volatile situation, but the spark that would cause the explosion is not yet predictable.

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

Calling Obama the biggest disappointment ever in the white house doesn’t come from anything to do with facts. Calling Hillary dishonest is sexist because we’re talking about a politician with a pretty good record on politifact, compared with other politicians. Calling women ‘females’ is sexist. And he has a trollish history and this is a non-troll thread.

EJ (The Orphic Lizard)

Calling Obama a disappointment might be true, but is not so much a statement about him so much as a statement about how unreasonably high our hopes were.

In the end he was a good President in some ways, a worryingly orthodox President in others, and showed the patience of a saint when it came to facing down the opposition he did. He wasn’t a bad President by any means. If we expected him to don a cape and fly, that’s not on him.

joekster (Bearded Beta)
joekster (Bearded Beta)
3 years ago

@Schildfreja: all hail her Highness 🙂

@GOSJM: From everything I’ve seen, you’re right about how Obama was forced to compromise on the ACA to get it through Congress. Personally, I think it was a major mistake to run medicare/medicaid expansion through the private insurance sector*, but it is quite possible that the bill would not have passed without that.

@Margot, Nick G: As Kupo said, I’m pretty sure Gert has a history here. Other commentators can elaborate on that as needed. Also, he mocked schildfreja, who is probably the single person on this thread most qualified (by patience and knowledge base) to engage the various trolls that come here. Finally, ‘twat’ is not cool. Someone without any history would be called out for calling someone that on this site.

@Kat: Kindred. That’s the term I was fishing for. Thanks!

*That simply confirms the status quo: the foxes are running the henhouse. Believe me, I know. The government rarely tells me I can’t do things for my patients. Their private insurance companies? All the fracking time.

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

@EJ
How is he the biggest disappointment ever in the entire history of the white house, though? This country has a huge history of putting disappointing douchenozzels in power. There is nothing factual about calling Obama the biggest disappointment of a president. It’s right up there with calling Clinton dishonest and hawkish. It’s language used by bigots every damn day in this country and I’m really sick of it and sick of having to explain that there actually is a lot of misogyny against Clinton and racism against Obama.

EJ (The Orphic Lizard)

@kupo:
To be sure, if anyone calls Obama the “biggest disappointment ever” then they either had some worryingly high expectations, or else are using grotesque hyperbole. Either way they don’t come out of it looking like a person with good judgment.

Also, agreed that a lot of the hyperbole about Clinton and Obama comes from the way people focus on the imperfections of minorities and disregard their achievements. When one is looking for a stick to beat someone with, no twig is too small.

Nick G
Nick G
3 years ago

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina,

Both your points have considerable validity, but neither shows that people who think Obama the greatest disappointment ever in the White House (and I think you have to allow some latitude for hyperbole) are racist, or that people who criticise Clinton are sexist. And Congress (even though a non-American, I’m quite familiar with the US political system btw) did not force Obama to launch drone strikes killing civilians in countries with which the USA is not at war, nor to persecute whistleblowers and ramp up the security state, nor to refuse to recognise coups in Egypt and Honduras as coups, nor to join in the disastrous overthrow of Gaddafi. Nor did it force Clinton to go along with these things, nor to refer to both Henry Kissinger and Hosni Mubarak as personal friends, nor to take huge payments for buttering up Wall Street bankers.

kupo, jokester,

See my response above. I noted that Gert used a couple of sexist insults. Gert’s history is not relevant to the accusations of racism and antisemitism against him, since no racist or antisemitic comments from previous threads were raised – all the accusations were about what he said on this thread.

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

Zionist bonobo is okay with you, then? And no, I don’t need to give latitude for hyperbole because women and POC are always held to higher standards.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Nick

no racist or antisemitic comments from previous threads were raised

Incorrect. When I brought up Zionism and dogwhistles, I did so in relation to a meltdown from months ago. Gert doesn’t think that complaining about Zionists furthers antisemitism. He thinks words are just words and taking implications from those words is inherently a silencing tactic. That’s where that comes from

EJ (The Orphic Lizard)

“Zionist bonobo”? Oh my Katie.

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

@EJ
https://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2016/10/28/ten-days-now-election-etc-open-thread/comment-page-3/#comment-1023767

He also mentioned “modern day Neanderthals” but I don’t even know what that’s supposed to mean. I think he used that term last time he melted down though. I’m sure it’s a dogwhistle for something but I don’t want to read the type of sites I’d have to read to find out what.

EJ (The Orphic Lizard)

@kupo:
I thought Neanderthal descent was supposed to be a mark of pride for white supremacists? Or is this something different?

I’m not sure I want to know either.

joekster (Bearded Beta)
joekster (Bearded Beta)
3 years ago

@axecalibur, Kupo: thanks for the background. I vaguely remembered Gert saying some nasty things, but I couldn’t recall specifics.

@NickG: Words matter. if someone starts tossing around words that are widely accepted as misogynistic and racist, they will be treated as a misogynist and racist.

If someone says something like that, this community will call them on it. If they respond by taking their lumps, apologizing, and learning from it, the community will give them a chance to continue contributing (I’ve benefitted from that tolerance more than once). If they respond by doubling down and tossing out more insults, than whatever else they are saying will be ignored.

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

@EJ
I was curious about that when I learned I had more Neanderthal DNA than most people (I’m mostly Northern European) so I looked into it and Eastern Asians have more than Europeans. But that wouldn’t stop them from thinking it’s a white pride thing, either.

PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

@ Nick G:

It is not just Gert’s posts in this thread that earned him the label of troll.

The regulars and and lurkers here have memories of what Gert has previously written on prior threads; I know *I* do (as a longtime lurker.)

If, indeed, Gert is MRAL, Gert has been happily doing this under numerous usernames since 2011 (at least.)

History Nerd
History Nerd
3 years ago

Part of the reason the Affordable Care Act is unpopular is that states can deny free coverage to poor people. It happens that many of those states have a high population of poor whites, who might start to view politics differently if they started getting good health care.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
3 years ago

@Margot & Nick

“Articulate” is a dogwhistle when it comes to black men. “You’re so articulate!” is not a compliment on the black man toward whom it is being directed so much as it is an insult to all the other black men in the world, who the speaker is saying lack this trait. Obama is not above criticism, but calling him “articulate” is a tell that the speaker is coming from a place of racism.

Clinton is not noticeably more corrupt or less trustworthy than other career politicians. She is certainly not more so than Trump. Saying these things betrays misogyny. Clinton is not above criticism, but these are not the things for which she needs to be criticized. These are not critiques that anyone is making about male politicians in this race.

Israel is also not above criticism, and I will criticize the hell out of them. But complaining that they get a lot of US aid is anti-Semitic. Without that aid, Israel would not exist. When Gert bitches about the US giving aid to Israel, Gert is complaining that Israel is a thing.

I don’t know where either of you live, but these dogwhistles are really clear to anyone who knows how to hear them.

Nick G
Nick G
3 years ago

Zionist bonobo is okay with you, then? – kupo

Try reading my first comment. As I said there:

“Zionist bonobos” was admittedly dubious, and indeed plain bizarre – after all, bonobos are by reputation peaceable and laid-back

And no, I don’t need to give latitude for hyperbole because women and POC are always held to higher standards. – kupo

So you’re saying that because Obama is black, Gerd should have been more careful to avoid hyperbole? Maybe so, but failure to do so is hardly evidence that he is actually judging Obama more harshly because of his race.

When I brought up Zionism and dogwhistles, I did so in relation to a meltdown from months ago. Gert doesn’t think that complaining about Zionists furthers antisemitism. – Axecalibur

Apologies – I missed that reference to an earlier thread. But since Zionists are proud to call themselves Zionists, and have done so for over a century, and there are plenty of non-Jewish Zionists and non-Zionist Jews, it’s bizarre to claim that “complaining about Zionists” in itself “furthers antisemitism”. Of course it can be a part of antisemitic discourse – it depends on what complaints are being made, and in what manner, e.g. it clearly is if “Zionist” is in effect being used as code for “Jews”.

It is not just Gert’s posts in this thread that earned him the label of troll. – PeeVee the (Noise) Sarcastic

That’s not relevant to my point, which was (to repeat) that while Gert was unnecessarily rude, some of his points were valid, and some of the attacks on him unjustified.

Nick G
Nick G
3 years ago

These [corruption and untrustworthiness] are not critiques that anyone is making about male politicians in this race. – Policy of Madness

I take it you’ve had your head in an opaque and soundproof bag this last year.

But complaining that they get a lot of US aid is anti-Semitic. Without that aid, Israel would not exist.

Nonsense. Israel established itself without US aid, and defeated the armies of Egypt, Syria and Jordan in 1967 without significant US aid (the USA was doing its best at that time to appear neutral in the Arab-Israeli conflict). Even without American aid, it would be now as it was then, by far the strongest military power in the region – and the only one with nuclear weapons. American military aid and political cover since then have been vital in allowing Israel to continue its illegal policy of settlements on occupied land, and oppression of the Palestinians.

Nick G
Nick G
3 years ago

Obama is not above criticism, but calling him “articulate” is a tell that the speaker is coming from a place of racism. – Policy of Madness

Well, aren’t we all? We live in racist societies, and cannot wholly avoid contamination. The fact that that word came to mind for Gert may indeed be a tell. But if anyone said Gert calling Obama “articulate” was a dogwhistle, that would imply that he intended an insult to other black men. I see no evidence for that. Do you?

PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

Oh, FFS.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
3 years ago

Some of Gert’s points were valid. That’s a big problem with a lot of trolls, demagogues and fascists, really. They wrap their hateful falsehoods in a capsule of some true injustice.

MRAs and MGTOWs do this too. There are injustices happening to men. That’s the easy-to-swallow capsule; especially easy to swallow for men who’ve suffered those injustices. It’s the blame and the hate and the deeply-rooted self-destruction which are the actual payload, though. We shouldn’t deny the truth of the candy-coating, but we need to strongly repudiate the actual contents. They aren’t always easy to separate.

Regarding the “Zionists” thing – you’re right, there are self-identified Zionists, and they’re free to self-identify that way. However, how we use words, and in what situation, is important. You can tell a bit about the sea someone swims in by the words they use. Most people when talking about Israel use the word “Israel” or “Israeli”. There are two groups that use the term “Zionist” frequently enough for it to be the first thing to come to mind when talking about American foreign aide:

1) People who self-identify as Zionists or who frequently associate with those people, or,
2) Racists, neo-nazis, and anti-semites.

Group 2 is much more common to come across than group 1 on the internet. Especially on a website devoted to tracking and mocking a hate group. It’s not at all a far stretch to assume Gert belongs to group 2.

(The word “articulate” is similar when referring to someone of colour. If the first word that jumps to your mind when referring to an intelligent and well-spoken black President of the United States is “articulate”, you swim in dark waters.)

This is what is meant when it’s said that a word is “racist”, or an indicator of racism. The word can have a valid non-racist meaning. How the word is used and what circumstances it shows up in are both important. Context matters.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Nick
Do you wanna do this? I mean, you do obviously wanna do this, but I’m giving you an out. Knowing you, you likely won’t take it…

Zionists are proud to call themselves Zionists, and have done so for over a century

I also brought up, in this thread, how a people using a word isn’t justification for everyone else to do so

there are plenty of non-Jewish Zionists and non-Zionist Jews

Not the point

it’s bizarre to claim that “complaining about Zionists” in itself “furthers antisemitism”

Take it up with the antisemites. If neonazis didn’t use zionist as a slur, we wouldn’t hafta be careful. They do, so we do

it depends on what complaints are being made, and in what manner

And using the word ‘zionist’ to refer to official Israeli fuckery instead of ‘the State of Israel’ or the ‘Israeli government’ or ‘Netanyahu’ is my 1st clue that your manner is suspect af. And dismissing those concerns is the 2nd clue…

But if anyone said Gert calling Obama “articulate” was a dogwhistle, that would imply that he intended an insult to other black men

No. Hairt is not a dogwhistle. ‘Articulate’ is a dogwhistle. Regardless of what Hairt meant. Don’t say it. Period

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
3 years ago

@EJ, kupo,

“modern day Neanderthals”

Following the fascists blathering on about Neandertals is one of my favourite giggles, because it just makes it so obvious how little they care about being right or honest, and how deeply they need to believe that Europeans are different and special. Their little HBD theories all turn to absolute mush when faced with real science, but oh how they cling!

First, neandertal was used pretty much as a synonym for (pardon the term) “mongoloid”, and was used parallel to phrenology to prove how noble and true and pure the nordic and aryan “race” was in comparison to the “degenerate” races.

Then it was discovered that neandertals weren’t ancestors to modern humans but were instead cousins, but they still used’em as metaphors.

Then it was discovered that cro-magnons and neandertals interbred in Europe, and all of a sudden it’s proof that Europeans are superior because neandertals are stronger and more resilient dontchakno, and Europeans combine the best of both subspecies anyways, right?

Then it was discovered that cro-magnons and neandertals interbed all over the ding dang place and they conveniently forget about the European interbreeding, and neandertals are once again primitive brutes that have direct connection to the non-white “savages” of the world.

Couldn’t telegraph your racism any stronger if you tried, guyse. Gee gee.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
3 years ago

I’m starting to think that Nick G. isn’t actually interested in a conversation.

EJ (The Orphic Lizard)

@NickG:
There is a valid distinction to be made between Jewish identity and various flavours of Israeli nationalism. I am not the person to make them, because I am not Jewish and so I am not the person to make that distinction.

I would recommend that unless you are Jewish, you perhaps do likewise and let others lead that discussion.

Viscaria
Viscaria
3 years ago

Gert has shown another facet of his fatphobic, ableist, anti-semitic, racist personality every time he’s come here, and every time he’s thrown a giant temper tantrum when he’s been called out on it because he is the Great White Male Saviour of the left, and smarter than all the rest of us, so how dare we question is casual use of the word “twat.” Every time, without fail.

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

@PoM & PeeVee
Agreed.

weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo

I think the Zionist Bonobo reference was meant to be calling me a Zionist because I have bonobo in my name, but it came off badly, he didn’t bother to explain it and since I’m not Jewish and do not identify as a Zionist, the insult was bizarre and most likely had anti-Semitic intent.

Besides the articulate thing, he called Obama “orator in chief” and that’s what pinged my racistdar. It was an awfully dismissive way to speak about him, especially considering what an accomplished and intelligent person he is. As if he’s secretly inferior and just tricking us with his pretty words and charisma. I don’t think he’d have talked that way about a white politician.

I never said non-Americans can’t criticize the US. My point was that England has a similarly bad past and present and English people have no room to act superior to us for being insufficiently progressive.

Anyway, I’ve been side eyeing Nick G for awhile now. He mostly pops into threads that are close to dead to talk condescendingly at people. Nothing ban worthy or necessarily trollish. Just snide asshattery that doesn’t get noticed much. Now he feels the need to defend Gert. That makes me really want to write him off.

And I don’t know who the fuck this Margot person and why they feel the need to defend an admitted troll but they can fuck off along with Nick. If being mean to trolls offends your delicate eyes, this is not the space for you. Whack a troll has always been our sport here since long before most of us even started commenting.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
3 years ago

Regarding “Obama, big disappointment” … lol.

Sure, there’s lots to critique there. Drone strikes and Gitmo and all sorts of things. Even the best presidents had some deep flaws. Comes with being a leader of a country – repugnant choices abound.

But Obama also bulldozed in a measure of affordable health care and defended it against a half-hundred attempts to destroy it; he saved the American economy from a recession that threatened to turn into another Great Depression; his government saw the protection of true equal rights for LGBT people by enforcing equal marriage laws.

I have a list a mile long of things I wish Obama would have done, and I wish he would have fought harder for them – he was far too eager into giving the Republicans what they wanted when they weren’t giving him anything in return. He knew he was going to be vilified by the Right no matter what he did, why not push for deeper changes and then broadcast loudly about how obstructionist and ridiculous the Republicans were being?

(The answer is, of course, that the donors to the Republicans are also the donors to the Democrats, so the Dems can’t complain too loudly about certain things without losing funding. Again, gotta keep the pressure on the government to change!)

But – really? Obama, big disappointment? Pchhh. Obama will be remembered as one of the best presidents, a turning point in American history. A repudiation of unrestrained capitalism and the reintroduction of pro-social ideals into government. He’ll be remembered as the first echos of real democracy returning to the United States. It’s my hope that, where Obama was the morning bugle, Hillary will be the arrival of the vanguard.

Up and at’em!

weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo

He also dumped don’t ask, don’t tell and was the first president to support marriage equality although I wish he did it sooner.

He also spent most of his two terms with a Congress that is single mindedly devoted to obstructing him. It made a lot of progress simply impossible.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
3 years ago

Yup, WWTH, he was hamstrung by the most obstructionist government ever. Like, they literally shut the government down entirely for a few days. I’d call them a bunch of babbies, but babies don’t deserve to be tarred like that. Babies go along with what you want sometimes, after all. And Obama still got work done. Dude deserves all the credit in the world.

Notable – there’s a good chance for the House to flip during this election! There are a lot of republican incumbents who show signs of losing to democrats. If the Dems get five seats, or four if Hillary wins, then they’ll control the House! Vote down-ticket, all you Americans! Show’em you mean business!

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll5yccjSVv1qgveqy.gif

Neon Vincent
3 years ago

Speaking of retrograde trolls, the New Yorker saw fit to profile Mike “JuiceBro” Cernovich. Here’s the link.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/31/trolls-for-trump

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Scildfreja

there’s a good chance for the House to flip during this election!

The Senate, you mean?

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
3 years ago

@Scildfreja

You mean the Senate.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
3 years ago

Woops! Sorry. Our Senators up here aren’t elected, so I messed it up.

I messed it up you guys! It’s all messed up!