So it’s ten days until the election now, and I cannot wait until this nightmare is over. Talk about it, or whatever else you want to talk about. No trolls, MRAs, Trumpkins, etc.
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Ten Days Now: Election, etc Open Thread
I thought you were going to ignore me? Couldn’t quit me, could you, honeybuns?
Better stock up on the adult diapers because as long as you continue to post here, I’m going to continue to mock you. If that makes you piss yourself, it’s not really my problem.
We have our own stuff we need to deal with.
FFS, Flint, Michigan’s water is still poisoned and fucked up; and we need to get something done about the abortion/healthcare restrictions that have been happening.
I don’t know what the elections are like in Michigan and places affected by this shit, but I hope they’re able to vote out the assholes who fucked them over.
I suggest going to the doctor for that UTI, or at least drink plenty of water and cranberry juice. Make sure it’s unsweetened or else it’ll just make it worst.
Also, fuck off.
@Ax: That’s an excellent point about Hillary. There seems to be an almost universal assumption that Hillary is ‘crooked’, but when you drill down to it, surprisingly little has managed to stick to her.
I really, truly think that Hillary has had a great deal of mud flung at her over the years, and the overwhelming majority of it simply doesn’t have any reliable evidence behind it.
Also (if it’s OK to bring religion into this): Hillary is a cradle Methodist. So am I. And I’ve got to say, pretty much every policy she’s championed over the years has been fully consistent with what our General Board on Church and Society comes up with. That means something to me.
@WWTH
I don’t like the sound of those trollish behavious. You’re supposed to triple bag it and discard it in the yellow bin. You don’t want to know what happens when a bahavious turns impish.
@Gert : it have likely been said to death now, but your position on Clinton is ridiculously overblown.
90% of Clinton president will be “5 more year of Obama prĆ©sident”, with 10% of actual Clinton policy, who is likely to be a mixed bag.
The worse sin of Clinton is not being interested enough in poor people to prevent the continual rise of fascism in America. It’s both a sin that all presidents since 20 years have had, and a minor thing compared to “is likely to use his position as president to help his own firm” and “may cause a nuclear apocalypse”.
@about american intervention : the Europa reconstruction plan, just after the WWII, is likely the best state-sponsored help plan ever done. Far from being faultless of course, but as a French I feel a responsibility toward remembering that the US not only was pivotal in defeating the Nazi, but helped a lot to rebuild the country afterwar(d).
@Axecalibur: sorry for the shorthand earlier. I’m on nursing home call, so I’m getting distracted a lot.
Gertie, if you suffer discomfort while pissing, a trip to the special clinic may be indicated. Seriously, get that seen to.
Yesterday BBC Radio Four broadcast part of an interview with Trump’s co-author on “The Art of the Deal” who basically says he’s relocating his family if the orange one gets in.
You can hear it here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04dggn1
And this morning we woke up to news of the email leak/investigation. So now I’m really quite worried. Worried if he wins, worried if he loses.
Hope all my friends over there stay safe.
Gert? Which one are you?
@Gert: yep. They’re mocking you. Sometimes, they mock me too. Heck, it’s not too uncommon for them to mock each other.
As I said, you’ve earned it. Sometimes I’ve earned it. There’s a difference between using mockery to show someone they’ve crossed a line, or that they are saying something truly ridiculous, and mocking somebody who goes out of their way to be nice to everyone.
Learn it
Re Bernie supporters: Virtually nobody further to the left uses terms like “socialist” or “democratic socialist” anymore because they don’t really mean anything. Most progressives and social democrats nowadays support some form of Keynesianism rather than a planned economy. Being able to throw terms around doesn’t mean you have workable policies.
If you really want to help shift politics to the left, focus on getting progressives elected to state and local offices, especially in state legislatures and county government. State and local government is often further to the right than the people who live in a specific area because conservatives vote consistently in local elections.
@Handsome Jack: excellent point on the cranberry juice: most cranberry juices have so much sugar in them to disguise the tart flavor that they make urine a better breeding ground for bacteria. So, they’ve started making cranberry capsules, which have mixed data supporting them.
Also, agree with getting our own house in order prior to trying to ‘fix’ anyone else. ‘first remove the log in your own eye, so that you may see clearly…’
Although, I think Dreadnought was meaning to imply something more along the lines of ‘economic aid’ rather than ‘USA step in and magically fix everything’.
@Joek
Yes, and I’m intrigued. Any specific examples of Clinton’s Methodist policies?
I just thought that with the election out of the way the US could contribute more resources and “energy” toward the global effort and help end the crisis faster. I know, it doesn’t make sense and it’s really simplistic/naive/idealistic. I was really distraught when I typed it, I wasn’t thinking, and I guess I didn’t want to think because I was comforted by an easy “solution”.
@kupo:
Your guessing WRONG as so often, you paranoid nincompoop! My IP is Plusnet (from Yorkshire), as David can verify at a glance if he want to.
I don’t even know what Tor means.
OK someone make me stop hyperventilating. Please. Is the new email thing going to affect Clinton????
I just saw that news. š
@Axe Donkey:
I’ll be charitable and believe you’re progressive, yet can’t see what’s done with your hard earned tax money to the Palestinians. That’s as close to the definition of stupid as you can get.
No surprise there from so many of your verbose crap.
@Ohlmann:
Do, pray tell, what my position on Clinton is. Go on, I challenge you little knownothing. Because you haven’t got the FOGGIEST clue.
But you’re close in one sense: much of the Clinton presidency WILL be more status quo than that of the Orator in Chief. But more hawkish and cosier to Wall Street/Big Corp than even the Biggest Disappointment in the WH Ever (Obama) was.
@Gert : “I pity the American electorate for having nothing more than a choice between two evils: a misogynistic clown and a super hawkish establishmentarian! ”
Your words.
@History nerd:
BS. Socialism doesn’t equate to planned economy.
@Axcalibur:
Before I begin (and this will be a real teal-dear), I should stress that the United Methodist Church has a significant amount of theological diversity within it’s ranks, to the point that both Hillary Clinton and George W Bush can consider themselves United Methodists (Bush was raised Episcopalian, but he joined the UMC after a conversion experience in college). I referenced in particular the General “Board of Church and Society (GBCS), which is, by and large, far to the left of many Methodists, but is still the official organ of the church on social issues. To be honest, depending on what happens the next few years, I may well leave the UMC and go join the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America), which is much more consistently progressive.
So, to the issues:
Methodism (despite having evolved into a predominantly upper-middle class religion here in the US) has always been focused on helping the poor and disenfranchised. Our founder, Wesley, once wrote that ‘there is no religion that is not social religion, no gospel but the social gospel’, and our GBCS has continued to push this aspect of our heritage. One huge example: the GBCS was one of two religious organizations to openly support Obamacare (at least at the beginning). Also, until the general conference in Seattle this year (grrr) the GBCS also helped fund one of the groups supporting planned parenthood. I believe the GBCS also supports efforts to expand the social safety net and address wealth inequality, although that may have changed recently. I do not think that this broad thrust of our theology is going to change, as the forces working to make the church overall more conservative are also invested in uplifting the impoverished.
Regarding abortion, the GBCS traditionally upheld a woman’s right to abortion, and I believe our social principles upholds that, although there is language in there saying that we reject the use of abortion as a form of birth control or as a means of selecting the gender of a child (I think we’d all agree on the later), it also contains language to the effect that the decision to have an abortion should be between the woman, her physician, and her spiritual advisor.
Regarding GLBTQ issues, the United Methodist Church is currently undergoing what amounts to a quiet civil war over this issue, with the deep south and the African conferences trying to move us more conservative, and the Western and NorthEastern conferences trying to pull us more liberal (to the point that the Western Jurisdiction appointed a bishop who is in an openly Lesbian marriage to preside over the Yellowstone conference this year, much to my father’s delight). Church and Society has always gone as far left as the Book of Discipline permits, and often just a little bit beyond that.
Our Social Principles state something like, ‘while homosexuality is incompatible with how we interpret the Scriptures, homosexual people are individuals of sacred worth whose rights should be respected and upheld.’ (paraphrased, of course). Naturally, every four years, there is a slew of proposals submitted to amend that (I think the Minnesota conference reliably submits 5-15 proposals every four years to strike out the ‘incompatible with the scriptures’ bit, while Dixieland can always be relied on to try and eliminate the ‘sacred worth’ bit. The GBCS has always stressed the sacred worth part, although the way our constitution is currently written, they cannot openly endorse gay marriage.
All of this may well change in the next few years. At our general conference in Seattle, the delegates were completely, totally deadlocked on what our stance on GLBT issues should be, and for the first time since the modern church was formed in the 1960’s, they actually appealed to the council of bishops to weigh in. The CoB was also unable to reach any agreement, and so they decided to call for a special conference dedicated to these issues to meet within the year. What it comes down to is that most of the American conferences understand that our current ‘official’ stance is antiquated, and in the words of one proposal submitted from Austin, Texas, ‘makes us look like Ogres’. However, the international conferences, especially the African ones, for some reason, are deeply conservative, and they’ve formed a block with the Southeastern US to block any real change in our Book of Discipline. Personally, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see some sort of split in the UMC before the end of this decade. At the 2012 conference, for example, the General Conference actually submitted a plan to essentially permit the individual jurisdictions to each go their own way on social matters, and it passed the General conference, but the Annual conferences voted it down.
Sorry if that went further than anyone expected.
To the point: I see that Hilary’s positions on the economy, on women’s rights, and on racial equality are consistent with the positions I learned growing up in the West (as I said, the West is one of the liberal strongholds in this particular church). The only place where she goes well beyond the Church is on GLBTQ issues, and even there, she’s in line with my own Western jurisdictions policies. Not surprising, as Hilary grew up in Chicago š
@Megalibrarygirl
No. There’s not even really a new email thing. Some of the emails in question may contain information pertinent to a separate investigations, so they’d like to go over them again.
@Joekster
I don’t think she’d ‘crooked’, she’s just too far right economically for my taste, and I’m not thrilled with her foreign policy either. I mean, vastly better than Trump, obviously, but ‘not a raving fascist’ is a pretty low bar to clear.
@Gert
Just fuck off, please. Your brocialist bullshit turns my stomach.
@Ohlmann:
Hillary is a super hawk and an establishmentarian.
She’s more than that but what she isn’t is progressive or an agent for change.
Which is why it’s so comical to see the Clintonistas in melt down because of this email flap (“PUTIN!?!” “Is Comey a Putin agaent???”). Might the Saviour miss the Coronation now?
Probably not.
You first, dear.
Gert’s still wanking? How presh.
@Gert : that’s not fact, but your opinion.
You say I have no idea about your opinions, but your first post in this thread was saying them out and loud. You should not be too surprised that people don’t take you all that seriously when you’re able to deny what you said ten minute after saying it.
That being said, Trump do the same. And we don’t take his idea seriously, only his threats.