A theater chain in Melbourne has cancelled screenings of Cassie Jaye’s The Red Pill in response to a petition on Change.org. Good news for feminists? No. Bad news.
As someone who’s writing critically about Men’s Rights activists for years, including many of those who appear in the film, I ask you to NOT support efforts to get the film removed from theaters.
Yes, the film (which I haven’t seen) looks to be a whitewash of some of the most noxious people in the world.
But if you’re interested in fighting against MRAs and all that they stand for, attempts to get The Red Pill removed from theaters don’t help.
I’m against this sort of thing on principle. But it’s also a very bad move practically. These sorts of campaigns give the film free publicity. They allow Cassie Jaye and her supporters to play the part of free-speech martyrs — especially ironic given the ongoing efforts of MRAs and fellow travelers in the alt right to silence women and feminists through harassment.
It’s exactly what they want.
So please don’t start petitions against The Red Pill, don’t sign petitions against The Red Pill; don’t support petitions against The Red Pill.
Let it sink into the obscurity it deserves on its own.
EDIT: As I said in the comments, this is such a boon to MRAs I would not be shocked in the slightest to discover that it was an MRA publicity stunt.
Craig seems to think that if he ignores all the answers to his question he’ll be able to fool the people who answered into thinking they didn’t.
@ IP
Yup, the under the radar thing was about the Nazis. Sorry, thought that was clear from the context (and if necessary my follow up post with the documentary).
I would agree with you about the general unfairness of the immigration system. I used to do asylum work so I know first hand how arbitrary it is and the impossible hurdles put in peoples’ way. But my views were probably formed when I read “The Silver Sword” as a kid anyway.
I can’t however find much sympathy for the rapist. That’s based purely on him being a rapist though. I won’t be storming the barricades demanding he’s deported, but if he is then that’s entirely as the result of a decision he made when he chose to rape someone. If he hadn’t raped someone he wouldn’t be in this position
But I appreciate that other people’s views may differ on that.
@IP: For what it’s worth, I read Alan’s comment about ‘such people’ as referring to the war criminals. I haven’t noticed any bias from Alan against PoC in his prior posts, but that could by my own white privilege blinding me.
Re. the rapist bit: I know that here in the US, criminal charges against immigrants (esp Mexicans) are sometimes trumped up to make deporting them seem more legitimate. Any chance something like that happened to the gent you’re speaking of?
I feel like I’m a bit out of my depth here, so I think I’ll stop digging.
@Craig: something from your first post stuck out at me: you said that you almost feel you should apologize for being a white man. Speaking as another white man, I think we should apologize. We’ve been greatly advantaged by a system that brings great harm to anyone who doesn’t happen to be a white man, and that is wrong. We didn’t ask for this privilege, and if you’re like me, you probably didn’t even know you were privileged. That does not change the basic fact. We can’t change anything that happened in the past, but we can labor to break down those disparities, and I believe we have a moral obligation to do so.
@Alan
You’re still missing the point. He is not being deported because he’s a convicted rapist. The original decision to deport was issued in 1990. That’s way before the crime was committed. I don’t have any reason to doubt his guilt, but it’s a bit out there to suggest that the Migration Board in 1990 made a decision based on future crimes.
@IP
(Yeah, this is why I don’t even acknowledge Alan’s existence anymore… Well, aside from this one-off post, obviously. He’s a weaselly gutless racist who sympathises with genocidal white imperialists.)
@Preux
Hugs if appropriate. We here at the Mammoth are a vehemently, aggressively, trans* supportive group. You are welcome here without reservation. I don’t think I’ve seen any TERFs since I got here (some driveby, meninist trolls with binary hangups tho), but I understand the worry 🙂
@TERF lurkers (or commenters who’s shittery somehow slid under the radar)
http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Ari-Gold-Get-The-Fuck-Out.gif
(waiting to use that gif forever ?)
@Viscaria
Perfect! I had to stop scrolling so I could run down here to applaud you! (Also, I totally snerted).
I think most TERFs self-deported from this blog about two years ago. There was a big discussion about the problem.
@SFHC
Seriously… -_-
@PreuxFox
Welcome! I kind of figured you might be talking about TERFs in your intro but it’s good to have confirmation of that. I don’t think a TERF would last long in the comments section, though. They’d get the treatment Craig and Susan have gotten, most likely. Help yourself to a welcome package. ^o^
Yeah, I’m agreeing with Buttercup that this is a Teaching-A-Pigeon-Chess thing.
Craig’s made no attempt to address or acknowledge people who have addressed his “points”, as flimsy as they were (and, yes, Crag, I’m one of them. Or did you ignore it because of the “weary sarcasm”?), and yet he continues to shit all over the board and strut about like he’s won.
Come off it, Craig. You’re not that clever.
@PI
Wait…Craig’s clever?
@PreuxFox
We have a zero-tolerance policy on transphobia of any stripe – if you do see somebody say anything gross, email David and he’ll take care of it ASAP. Also, welcome! =)
@ IP
Sorry IP, I picked up on the first bit quoted. But what’s happened here seems clear enough. It was initially determined he was eligible for deportation but that was never acted on. That’s not unusual, there’s a sort of legal ‘limbo’ under the refugee convention called ‘indefinite leave to remain’. It’s pretty unsatisfactory but it’s used when you don’t qualify for refugee status but they won’t deport you anyway (in which case why not grant asylum?).
But after he was released from prison they removed even that status from him as a result of the conviction and thus he became liable for deportation again.
So, as far as I can tell, it was the conviction for rape that was the determining factor. That’s what changed the position.
I fully understand where you’re coming from on this, but I honestly can’t bring myself to feel unduly sympathetic to a rapist where his misfortune is a consequence of the rape.
But you’re clearly a more compassionate person than I am (I’m not saying that in a snarky sense; I fully appreciate this is your heart felt view)
@PI – Why are all the Grandmaster Pigeons such annoying nihilists?
@Pie
No kidding…That was barely even a quire of hate. Not only that, “electronic reams” is an oxymoron.
I, for one, am delighted you chose to share your Nietszchean euphoria phase with us. What is your conversion rate? Can you link to some examples where you have successfully rescued people from their sheeple ways, using the tactics you have demonstrated on this blog?
I’ll wait. I’m patient.
Let’s review: You were the one who barged in here, guns blazing, trying to bully us into feeling bad about our beliefs. You don’t get to darvo and feel superior because you provoked us and got a response. When you walk up to a large group of people and insult them without any preamble, you’re going to get pushback. You’d think all of your experience dabbling in various world views would have given you a modicum of awareness about how social situations work.
And since you referenced Orwell earlier, you’re obviously familiar with doublethink. Please explain how, in your world, we’re sheep because we didn’t immediately fall into lockstep with your beliefs, while you are an “independent, free thinker” despite trailing a whole baggage car full of faulty assumptions about feminism.
I’ve been lurking for several years – so was a bit confused at first by everyone’s assertion that TERFs weren’t welcome, because I do remember seeing them around in the past, although not lately. This makes more sense to me now. It’s always good to see online communities evolving over time.
And thanks for the warm welcome, everybody.
@joekster
Something about this bugs me, but I’m finding it strangely hard to articulate exactly what it is. The quote “yeah, you’re sorry, I’m sorry, everyone’s sorry” springs to mind. Maybe it is that it feels like “sorry for being privileged!” is a bit like trying to pull on the mantle of an oppressed and abused group? Or maybe the underlying assumption that those being apologised to are in fact reverse racists and misogynists, or something. Anyway.
White men shouldn’t apologise for being white men, cos, y’know, it isn’t their fault and there’s not anything that can be done about it. Being an asshole, though, that’s something that can be apologised for and even remediated.
Welcome, PreuxFox! Enjoy the site, and make sure to check out the comments policy. Has someone given you a welcome basket yet?
Here at We Hunted the Mammoth we do not wish death upon anyone, for any reason. If anyone here wishes death upon you, they are not our friends. The very worst that we will wish upon them is that they go step on Lego, and that is a curse not uttered lightly.
@Alan:
@Craig:
Go step on Lego.
Counter-point, the only people who actually care are people who already have their minds made up about this sort of thing.
@Pie
I think that is it exactly. The poor oppressed and abused cishet white male. We should be supporting them in their fight against women and minorities, not mocking and ridiculing their lame, tired, and poorly-thought out arguments for why they are superior and everyone else is inferior/jealous/meany-heads/etc.
Pie wrote:
Very much this. No one should ever have to apologize for being born, even if you’re born to privilege.
It’s what you do after being born that may require apologies.
I am so VERY tired of people using this term when they clearly don’t understand what it means. It does not mean “wrongness”, you blithering tool.
Cognitive dissonance is a feeling of anxiety brought about by holding conflicting opinions, or opinions that are in conflict with clear and obvious facts. If you’re not uncomfortable with your beliefs, you are not experiencing cognitive dissonance.
If you believe, for example, that you’re supposed to love everyone in accordance with the teachings of Christ, but you ALSO believe that blacks, Jews, the poor, people whose gender identities make you uncomfortable, etc., etc., are inherently evil and deserve to be punished constantly for existing, and you are really trying to be a good person with all of that, you are going to experience intolerable anxiety around your belief system. That is cognitive dissonance, and the entire POINT of defining it is to examine the defense mechanisms people use to ease that discomfort.
In short, it is not a term meaning “you’re wrong because you don’t think what I think you should think.” Stop using it that way. Just stop.
@Alan
How exactly is that “pretty clear”?
If he’s now being deported because of the rape conviction, why did they let the court decision expire again? Why did they wait 8 more years after his release until he re-applied for a second time? Why did they not deport him in 2013, when they had him under arrest and would’ve been quite aware of both his rape conviction and the decision that he was to be deported?
Alan, NONE OF THIS MAKES ANY FUCKING SENSE. Your theory is Trump-level nonsensical.
This is a recurring problem with you, as well. You comment with assumed authority on topics that are outside of your area of expertise, and on topics regarding which you have no clue what the details are. Even though I included all these details in my original comment, you decided to reply seemingly without having read my post.
This history of bad judgement on your part frankly makes it difficult to ascribe value to any of your statements on legal matters. In this case, I can determine that you’re full of shit. In other cases, you might be equally full of shit but I don’t have the tools to recognize it. You’re placing yourself in the same category as medical doctors who diagnose strangers with mental illness over the internet.
@pie, gaebola: hmm. I didn’t intend that as a plea for sympathy. I don’t apologize for being born. I do apologize, and profusely, for having benefitted from white male privilege, even unconsciously, and I try to do what I can to address that. I wish I could do more about it…
I’m not subtly asking for support or assistance. I was attempting to unsubtly chide Craig for his attitude.
@ IP
Sorry, don’t want to keep going round in circles here, but you did provide enough information in your very detailed posts. There’s nothing particularly surprising or unusual in the circumstances you mention. You’re assuming a level of competence and efficiency within the immigration system that just isn’t there. Delay, lack of communication between agencies, seemingly arbitrary shifting of goalposts are an inherent part of the system. I certainly wouldn’t claim to be an expert in this field, but I have done quite a few cases and certain people in my life are heavily involved with the JCWI so I’m not unfamiliar with their experiences either.
Can’t we just agree we hold different viewpoints here? You’ve expressed your sympathy for this guy; I’ve mentioned that I just don’t feel too much sympathy for him. I certainly wouldn’t try to dissuade you from your views; I just hold different ones.
About Craig: I like cookies, and sometimes I like to cut them into funny shapes.
Also, sea lions can be very cute.
http://ocean.si.edu/sites/default/files/styles/blog_photo/public/photos/2007-12-MAST-Galapagos-Crown-lobo-mouth.jpg