A theater chain in Melbourne has cancelled screenings of Cassie Jaye’s The Red Pill in response to a petition on Change.org. Good news for feminists? No. Bad news.
As someone who’s writing critically about Men’s Rights activists for years, including many of those who appear in the film, I ask you to NOT support efforts to get the film removed from theaters.
Yes, the film (which I haven’t seen) looks to be a whitewash of some of the most noxious people in the world.
But if you’re interested in fighting against MRAs and all that they stand for, attempts to get The Red Pill removed from theaters don’t help.
I’m against this sort of thing on principle. But it’s also a very bad move practically. These sorts of campaigns give the film free publicity. They allow Cassie Jaye and her supporters to play the part of free-speech martyrs — especially ironic given the ongoing efforts of MRAs and fellow travelers in the alt right to silence women and feminists through harassment.
It’s exactly what they want.
So please don’t start petitions against The Red Pill, don’t sign petitions against The Red Pill; don’t support petitions against The Red Pill.
Let it sink into the obscurity it deserves on its own.
EDIT: As I said in the comments, this is such a boon to MRAs I would not be shocked in the slightest to discover that it was an MRA publicity stunt.
Ah, what a hero you are.
I bet you’ll find even more groupthink on Ravelry! Everyone there likes YARN!
This is why everyone is treating you as a troll and not taking you seriously, but I’m thinking you might actually just be this clueless, so I’ll walk you through some simple critical thinking.
People usually come to a forum or website to discuss something they have in common with the other people there. Those beliefs exist prior to them clicking on the URL, and continue to exist after they leave, out into the wide world where their beliefs may be challenged by other people.
No group of people is a monolith. Every person here is an individual with their own beliefs and yes, there are absolutely disagreements between regular commenters on a variety of issues – which you would know if you had bothered to lurk or read the archives, which are basic internet etiquette before charging in making assumptions about every single commenter.
The idea that a group of people as large as the readers of this site sharing even the few beliefs you’ve listed is, frankly, silly. That’s why nobody is taking time to seriously answer you. And nobody came here to answer a poll about their beliefs in order to prove their personhood to you personally, o fighter of groupthink. They came here to have an actual valuable discussion.
Craig,
I read all of the responses carefully and I don’t see any venom being spat or ‘reams of hate’. All I see is a few careful and precise refutations of some of your points, and a bit of mockery – which I think is well deserved.
Your ‘point’ is ridiculous, as a casual reading of the various arguments and controversies minutely discussed and dissected by the inhabitants of this blog would show quite a bit of independent thought and analysis. (I don’t quite understand how all the My Little Pony gifs fit in but that’s just me )
There is no hatred of men here or in the larger feminist movement, you are making the mistake of thinking that an unwillingness to put up with violent and obnoxious behavior, and an unwillingness to stay in the kitchen and shut up equals hatred.
There is no reason for anyone to say things they don’t believe just because you would love it.
If you want to see group think check the Breitbart comment section.
Craig
October 25, 2016 at 10:52 pm
Hi all, I am a white, middle aged male. Wow I feel like I should follow that statement with an apology!
Why, I do believe that was sarcasm. Just not the “weary, superior”, kind? Huh….
I would love one of you to say you do not support the following: affirmative action, marriage equality, Hillary Clinton, a woman’s right to abortion, man made climate change. No takers? Didn’t think so. My point? That you are all just cookie cutter, group think, holier than thou sheep whose opinions are not worth the screens they are typed on.
In other words, believe what I want you to believe, or you are cl;early unable to think for yourselves”
To throw the baby out with the very dirty bath water and refuse to acknowledge a modern trend towards man hating is ignorant or wilfully bad…..Some feminists have gone way past wanting equality to seeking revenge.
To make provocative claims like this as if they are self-evident and do not need to be backed by evidence or substantiated by reasoned argument of any kind is a pretty clear case of trolling, which is confirmed by Craig’s follow-up remarks.
All;
http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/25/technology/developer-sexual-assault-virtual-reality/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom
on cnn this a.m. look for gamers/gaters to cry about the game developer caving to feeeeminists/wite nites/etc. in a conspiracy to freeze the gamers’ peeches…. or something….
Oh hi, Mark. Oh. I mean Craig. O
I did address your points. Go back to the previous page and you will see. I’m assuming that you just missed it. Because if you read it and chose to ignore it and accuse us all of not answering your points in favor of hate, that would be engaging in bad faith. In other words, trolling.
Also, the whole world needs to see how abhorrent MRAs are. If they want to show the world first-hand… let them.
Anyways, folks, back to the alleged banning. As M Naimo said upthread: this single screening of a movie no commercial distributer here had decided was worthy of their box office time was supposed to be a private screening for members of “Men’s Rights Melbourne” only – they were hiring the cinema to watch the movie together.
How do we know this? The email was quoted in the counter petition “Men’s Rights Melbourne” have now set up. That’s right, MRM are admitting to having deceived the venue where they were trying to hold their private film night and maybe make a buck or two on the side. Illegitimately.
They have also started a social media campaign to trash the reputation of the cinema group they are still trying to force to rent them their cinema: http://junkee.com/mens-rights-activists-flooding-palace-cinemas-fb-refusing-screen-new-documentary/88171
Sad times for a small cinema group trying to act in good faith.
Anyone who uses “sheep” as a rebuttal should be banned from internet debating for at least three months. Same goes for smugly quoting George Orwell like that is an argument in itself.
It’s also incredibly asinine to go onto any page with a political bent and accuse people who agree with said page’s bent of “groupthink” just because they don’t agree with you.
Now run along to Breitbart. There’s a good lad.
Palace will come out of this just fine, though. They’re halfway between arthouse and mainstream and have a very loyal clientele. I suspect the people railing at them have never been to any of their cinemas in the first place.
And so you use the same old on line tactic of not answering a question, re-directing and asking your own question then resorting to saying “I win”. Seriously, a victory dance?!
I give the convenor of this site credit for being well intentioned when he invited you all here, to be positive and constructive in your support of women’s rights and the fight against people who have created a backlash movement against women’s rights. But I bet he was hoping for more than what he’s getting. I bet he was hoping for open people who didn’t jump on anyone who walked through the door who didn’t wear the same t-shirt as you. And I’ll even give you all credit for not wanting to be what you are all acting like: a group of school kids in a circle around the new kid, taunting the new kid and puffing each other up by doing it. I don’t think you see yourselves as that and hopefully don’t want to be that, but it’s unfortunately exactly how you’ve acted when someone different dares to show their face. Note I have never once said I support any of the causes or organisations you oppose. It was your assumption and choice to talk about my “manosphere”. That’s the kms of prejudice I’m sure you purport to hate. It is the way to any better place folks. You don’t win support for a cause by preaching only to your own congregation and pushing away anyone else. But if you’re happy sitting in your on line circle and making each other feel you’re changing the world, go for it. At least I’m out there dipping my toe into other world views and looking around.
Soul healing llamas for everyone. Not for MRAs though. These are feminist llamas.
Lastly, I could easily see this being taken up by the alt-right bonehead who runs the Melbourne Underground Film Festival, had it not already run a couple of months ago. Too bad, so sad.
Side note: I’m from Melbourne myself, but there’s no way I would have signed a petition like this one. I didn’t even know about it until after the film had been yanked.
@Craig: Frigid Virgin posted a very thorough takedown of your initial post. Please read it, and respond to the points made. Then, please read what the other posters here had to say if you are genuinely interested in dialogue. Trust me, they’ve all been working with these problems for quite a while, and quite a few of them know what they’re talking about.
If you approach them honestly and with an open mind, you might learn something. There are a number of posters here who are willing to take the time to engage with you honestly.
Oh, and as a cishet white male, you’re making us look bad. Please stop. I can look bad all by myself.
@everyone else: I’m going back to just ‘bearded beta’. I can’t leave the bit about sheeple in there any more.
@ Craig
Let’s start over… at the source of the conflict, i.e. “our” collective failure to “answer your questions”…
There’s your initial post…. IS THERE A QUESTION IN THIS????????? No? then what’s the fucking problem??
Fuck off, Chad. You’re boring.
Weird Eddie,
I’m glad the developers of that game are willing to learn from this and not just saying female players will have to suck it up. But I’m honestly baffled that no one thought of this happening. If anyone (say Mark/Craig) needed evidence of male privilege. There it is. Sexual harassment is so much less common to the male experience than the female that even after 2 years of gamergate and misogyny in the gaming community being discussed, it still didn’t occur to male game developers that someone might use VR to harass.
I see Mraig is still ignoring me. Whatever shall I do?
That’s the closest you got to asking for any form of engagement. I understand this to be a request to one (or more) of US, asking that we disavow one (or more) of these beliefs in order to make you happy. Speaking for myself, “No”.
… and you got “venom” in response to this??? I am SOOOOOOO shocked!!
Speaking of harassment. Holy shit this story
http://jezebel.com/uw-madison-student-already-charged-with-four-counts-of-1788219789
@Craig swans in here, declaring “Hey! I bet none of you share my pet beliefs, which makes you all a bunch of unthinking sheep!”, then keeps loudly demanding an explanation as to why people won’t engage him in complete seriousness and deep respect on that utterly disrespectful claim.
Uh….no, Craig. You’re not in a position to demand anything here. If you seriously believe that you’re the only free-thinker here, then clearly you are either wasting your time talking to us or trolling. Which one is it?
@ Ghost Robot, I hope so, and I hope they make the same evaluation. I too doubt that the majority of signatures on the latest petition will even be from people in Victoria, let alone their customer base.
Even if they wanted to cave to demands, its not like they have the option to show the film in public release.
Which makes the idea that the original petition was an MRA marketing ploy a bit less plausible. Its been a gift of free publicity to the MRA/MRM, but I doubt they have the intelligence part of the Machiavellianism for it.
Because temporary indulgence in conspiracy theories is my guilty pleasure, I suspect our new friend Craig is part of Men’s Rights Melbourne.
PS, Craig, so that’s a “yes, you are entirely correct, Croquembouche”?
PS, Mish, Victorious P: dancing intensifies
@ wwth
Yeah
And (I believe) that’s why.
🙂 🙂 😉 😉
@ Craig
I think the error you have made though is one of cause and effect (or possibly anthropic principle? someone help me out here)
You’re assuming that this site causes the views when it is in fact the views that draw people to the site.
Of course people may learn things here and adapt their views as a result, but that’s not an aim of the place. (This site generally is descriptive, not prescriptive)
This site covers topics related to feminism from a supportive perspective. So perhaps it’s unsurprising that it tends to attract people who are broadly sympathetic to the ideals of feminism.
However within that framework there’s plenty of disagreement and discussion about the detail. Different perceptives are raised all the time on all sorts of issues and there’s much debate and give and take about that.
But a fundamental area of agreement here is that women are people.
I suspect it would take a lot of advocacy skills to persuade people here differently, certainly more than you’ve demonstrated. There’s no shame in that failure. I would submit it’s an impossible task as there literally is no counter argument to that position.
Am I the only one who’s scrolling past every comment with the word ‘Craig’ in it? I am so not interested in this troll’s attempts to derail the topic at hand.
I would definitely say that anti-feminists have something to do with this crummy petition. This is it’s top comment:
Something tells me those aren’t the words of a genuine feminist.
I agree it’s a mistake to try and block screenings of this film, even though in this case, they booked their venue under dishonest pretenses. What’s ironic is the way that people are now trying to punish the cinema for their actions by leaving them trash 1* ratings on review sites. What better way to show how reasonable your group is than by trying to destroy a business who does something you don’t like?
I have an OT story that I need to tell someone.
Sweden has decided to deport a man who has lived in the country for 55 years. He is now 72 and came here from Morocco in 1961, when he was 17. He fled Morocco when Hassan II came to power, since he was a left-leaning teenager openly protesting the regime. In Sweden, he studied finance but went on to have a difficult life. He has been married four times and has four children, and he is a grandfather.
He is not a Swedish citizen, but he was a legal resident from the early 1960s to 1990. He hasn’t had a Moroccan passport in half a century, and in 1981 it was decided that the political situation in Morocco was such that the man could not be deported. For unknown reasons, the Migration Board had declared in 1990 that he was no longer properly documented as a resident. At that point, he had already been a legal resident for three decades. For even more unknown reasons, he was never actually deported. The man himself was never informed of this decision.
Over the course of his life, he has been convicted of various crimes on 8 different occassions. In the 00s, he spent 5 years in prison for drug related crimes, as well as violent crimes including rape. I’m not bringing that up for the “look, he was no angel” angle, but rather because his criminal history is part of the Migration Board’s decision.
After being released from prison in 2008, he contacted the Migration Board to renew his residence permit. Instead, it was decided (again) that he was to be deported. His bank account was closed down, and he no longer has an official address of residence. The decision to deport was confirmed in court in 2011, but again he was never actually deported, even though he was arrested for theft two years later. The court decision is no longer valid since last year, because of the statute of limitations.
This year, the man once again applied for a residence permit. For the third time, the Migration Board decided that he’s to be deported, with a 4 year ban from visiting Sweden. This time, they seem to be serious about it. In the decision, the man himself is held responsible for not self-deporting in the wake of the previous decisions.
He’s now been retired for many years, and is supported by his children. He knows nobody in Morocco, since he hasn’t spent any time there in 55 years. It’s an absolutely unbelievable story. Is it a world record for late deportation?