Max Roscoe, a self-described ‘aspiring philosopher king” who writes regularly for misogynistic garbage site Return of Kings, doesn’t like feminism. Or contemporary classical music.
So he’s decided to take down both of these allegedly awful things, by suggesting that they’re pretty much the same thing, if you think about it.
Modern culture tells us that short skrillex haircuts, defiling the body with metal shrapnel and inked graffiti, and massive, revolting body fat is “beautiful.” This message is so successful, that today, in the west, it is extremely difficult to find a female below the age of 25 who has not purposefully destroyed her physical beauty in multiple ways.
As this worship of ugliness has marginalized natural beauty, likewise, modern classical music teaches us that dissonant chords, out-of-key incongruous sounds, and loud, harsh noises are pleasant and desirable. Gone are the naturally pleasing chords and intonations which music theory teaches are good.
Damn you feminists with your blue hair and your 12-tone scales!
Also, feminists and modern classical music are both really, really repetitive.
Much as feminists do little more than repeat meaningless phrases like “Rapists cause rape” and “Still not asking for it” … instead of having a thoughtful discussion, modern classical music replaces creativity and musical complexity with repetition.
Roscoe reports with horror that he was FORCED to listen to one super-repetitive avant-garde piece this past weekend in which the same chord was played a whole bunch of times in succession. The horror!
It was like every other modern classical piece I have heard: an aural assault of dissonant noises, repetitive sounds, and unnatural rhythms….
In the piece … the same chord was repeated at least 50 times before another instrument joined in.
Golly. How could ANYONE think that playing the same chord over and over would ever sound good? Or that deliberate dissonance might make music sound … well, a heck of a lot more rocking?
Here’s one of the examples he offers as evidence of just how laughably awful contemporary classical music is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLckHHc25ww
Really, dude? Steve Reich’s Music for 18 Musicians? That’s a bit like using the Beach Boys’ Pet Sounds to prove that rock music is uncreative.
Roscoe fleshes out his argument with a segment trying and failing to show that dissonant chords are basically the musical equivalent of “deviant lifestyles.” It’s about as nonsensical as it sounds, and really just an excuse for Roscoe to rant ignorantly about trans folks, so I’m not even going to bother to quote it.
Add “music” to the long list of things that manospherans just don’t get.
I love how they alternate between “men are responsible for all progress in the world” and “progress is terrible! All modern (fill in the blank) is degenerate garbage!” Make up your minds, fellas – is progress good or bad?
Also love how they alternate between raging about how much tougher they’ll be after the apocalypse than all the other beta manginas, and “ugh, this modern art makes me feel DISCOMFORT, make it stop”. When the zombies take over, I won’t need to carry a gun. I’ll just shave my hair, dye it green, and hum atonal dissonant intervals.
@Fishy Goat
Artusi, to defend him a second, was hearing something very new to him. Monteverdi credited Artusi with forcing him to better articulate his musical ideas (in a theoretical fashion, not in the actual compositions) and Artusi relaxed his stance as he grew more familiar with Monteverdi’s new innovations.
It’s kind of like parents trying to get their kids to eat mushrooms or spinach. Don’t just try it once and say you don’t like it.
I forget who was involved or when and where exactly, but there was a group of early 20th C composers who, knowing their music was radically different and knowing that familiarity is often the missing ingredient in acceptance of the new, would introduce one new work in each concert program. But instead of playing the piece once, they would play it a second time after something already familiar had been played.
Maybe if Roscoe had played SimCity, he’d love the Reich. I know CivIV made Adams’ “The People are the Heroes Now” from Nixon in China into a very familiar piece of music for me.
@ handsome jack
Aw, you just made Phil Oakley cry. 🙂
@ Axe
I’d highly recommend Clockwork Orange. Especially if you’re interested in that whole ‘law & order’ trope in politics.
@eli I can’t say I was much different than Artusi at first, maybe less publicly disparaging. My first impression was more “Wow! Who knew atonal music started in medieval Italy!” 😉 [Yes, I was a bit of an ignorant 1st year.]
@Axe: It’s worse. Remember that threesome he has with two young women who aren’t just consenting but enthusiastically participating?
TRIGGER WARNING
(Sorry folks, I thought the spoiler tags would work)
Well, in the book they’re young girls, and it’s yet another rape.
I agree @Alan, though Clockwork Orange does have some troubling points (especially in the book, won’t go into further detail due to *content warning, may be unsuitable for some adults and definitely not for minors*) it gets one thinking about law & order/crime and punishment.
Poor Roscoe, being forced to endure other people being happy with themselves and enjoying things he doesn’t enjoy!
I wonder what he would think of Jack Conte’s rendition of Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy? I bet his metaphors about infections would be amazing.
@Dalilama
Yeah, I agree that we need to find a better term for it, since “modern” classical music has little in common with classical music besides the instruments and the format. I usually try not to get too pedantic about it though, because when I say I mainly play Romantic music, people tend to think “Love Me Tender” instead of “Fantaisie Impromptu”. It gets tiring to have to explain the difference.
@Seraph
Word of advice: never assume
But yeah, that’s the word on the grapevine…
@msexception + Alan
Honestly, I watched that whole film without thinking much about anything. Dulling experience. I’m glad to have seen it, but I’m not keen to see it again. And I’m never touching that book
@ msexception
You probably know that ‘that’ particular scene was based on something that happened to Burgess’ wife; and the book was his way of addressing his feelings on that.
Recently, my band (well, me and a friend – both very left-wing and feminist!) released a power metal album based on a novel with themes of homosexuality and transgenderism. I’d like to present that to him and ideally watch him explode.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/the-poison-skies/id1136392657
albion.bandcamp.com
Re: A Clockwork Orange
I personally really liked it, but that may be more because I’m a big fan of Kubrick’s visual style and storytelling, and less because of the film’s subject matter. And as with any Kubrick film, the real joy of watching is finding the subtle thematic hints thrown around like beautiful little Easter eggs.
On “that”scene, I read somewhere that it was an example of Kubrick toning down the content of his work to skirt around the censors like he did for Lolita, because child sexual abuse was the final line for the British government in those days. Wouldn’t be too surprised if it still was, actually.
Now there’s a meaningless phrase. Not to mention a concept completely without historical precedent. When has a king ever been a philosopher? And why is something that’s never existed still being aspired to, much less by such dolts as one who would write this?
CITATION NEEDED, aspirating vacuum cleaner. I see no evidence that “modern culture” is telling anyone any such thing. If you don’t like women with under-cut short hair (and since you named a specific short cut, who but Skrillex still cuts their hair that way? It’s kind of unfashionable now), tattoos and piercings (which include the conventional single set of earring holes my mom got while still a baby), don’t moan and spin silly theories about it; just don’t bother trying to date any! Trust me, they are happier without you, anyhow!
What a maroon. Music theory doesn’t teach that there is any such thing as “naturally pleasing chords and intonations”, much less that such are “good”. He simply has an idea in his head of what is “naturally pleasing” and “good”, which not everybody buys into. Same goes for his ideas of “natural beauty”. They are not absolute, Max, you moron.
Actually, “Rapists cause rape” is true, and “still not asking for it” means exactly what it says. Meaning, neither phrase is “meaningless”, but very meaningful indeed; he’s just willfully choosing to disregard the obvious because he doesn’t like the implications (namely, that he’s probably an aspiring rapist, if not one who’s already done the deed, and that the women he may have assaulted are innocent). As noted above, “aspiring philosopher king” is a meaningless phrase.
And again, witness how meaningless it is: “…instead of having a thoughtful discussion”. What does THAT mean? One where the woman comes away cowed and says “Yes, master, you’re right. I bow to your superior intellect”? What a boring discussion that would be!
As for repetitive music being “uncreative”, don’t anyone tell him about this very creative piece of bossa nova:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI7DT0xUsvA
Oops! One more piece of the philosophical “kingdom” has crumbled to dust.
@Aunt Podger
That site you linked appears to be down. Given your description of it, that probably is not a bad thing.
To be honest, a lot of “contemporary classical” isn’t my cup of tea (love the video though!), but I’m guessing the reason he singles out “contemporary classical” for attack is because it has relatively few defenders. I mean, anyone who can’t stand “loud, harsh noises” must hate most rock music for a start.
It’s funny how human beings need theoretical guidelines to explain what is “natural” for them and what is not. Yet as others have pointed out here, non-western musical traditions either have a different nature or operate according different theories, and the “western” tradition only developed the “diatonic” scales that have come to feel “naturally harmonious” a few centuries ago.
@Tovius, I kind of hope we broke it. The site, or that section of the site, purports to be about assisting male victims of domestic violence, a worthy goal, but is full of, basically, “Well, ya shoulda not gotten involved with a woman who has a history of being abused in the first place. They’re the real abusers. Sorry for your stupid butt. Too late, though,” and, on the main section of the site implies that it is fundamentally much more unsafe for a woman to live with children in any situation but with the children’s biological father. (So… if you’re widowed, you should wall yourself up in his tomb with the kids. It’s the only way to be sure— to say nothing of the fact that if your mate is abusive and you leave, well, yes, you and your kids are way more likely to get murdered than if you stay and teach them that love=constant, soul-grinding, bone-breaking abuse… ignoring the statistical near-certainty that the one who is going to murder you if you leave is the kid’s bio-daddy.)
Out of an altogether wonderful thread, this is my favourite:
(by Buttercup Q. Skullpants)
@Mish Hum this. LOL!
@ Fishy Goat
http://www.bite.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/surprised-cat-teaser.jpg
K … I’ll … try :\
Hello.
What @Cecilia said.
Whatever do the current generation, there would almost always be some people of the older generations who are going to say it is bad and that it was better in their times. In France, we call that the “C’était mieux avant”, often transcribed as a “CTMieux A Vent” (which can be imagined as some kind of musical instrument easy to play, as people tend to quickly draw this argument when they dislike something).
As i can not see the videos here and speaking about repetitive patterns in music, is someone has already prompted the Bolero of Ravel ? As it was specifically written to be repetitive, it is a Max Roscoe Musical Arch Enemy.
Have a nice day.
@dreemr, don’t forget that Stravinsky’s The Rite of Spring literally caused a riot at its premiere!
OK, that was probably more to do with the choreography.
@ Weird Eddie
Ha! Thanks!
Roscoe can’t even have a *new* deplorable idea; this is just the bog-standard Nazi “degenerate art” routine done with even less skill.
@eli – Thanks, that’s interesting – about Susan McClary, I mean.
Music is one of the more abstract arts, so it’s always a difficult topic for comparison. I mean, it’s hard to say that music without lyrics is about anything other than itself, if that makes sense. I remember reading the first chapter of a book by Theodor Adorno where he sets out this argument that Stravinsky = bad and Schoenberg = good, because Schoenberg’s twelve-tone system represented progress, whereas the “primitivism” of ol’ Iggy Strav represented reactionary politics and violence (if I remember correctly. I’m probably grossly oversimplifying).
And if an actual philosopher’s take on music is questionable, Max Roscoe the Philosopher King’s is just ridiculous. “Modern music repeats a lot! Just like feminists! And this is bad!” etc.
“Philosopher King” is basically Plato’s ideal ruler in “The Republic”. An enlightened individual governed by philosophy and wisdom. That said, it’s largely justification for “The world would be perfect if I were in charge”, both from Plato and from this twit.