Yesterday, after poll guru Nate Silver of FiveThirtyEight posted a chart showing that Donald Trump could easily win the election if only men were allowed to vote, some Trump fans began wondering, with varying degrees of seriousness, if maybe it would be a good idea to repeal the pesky 19th Amendment that gave women in the US the vote in the first place.
Soon #RepealThe19th hashtag was trending on Twitter.
The good news is that most of the people using the hashtag were those who were appalled by the very idea of it. The Washington Post went through 1000 Tweets posted in the hashtag last night, and as best as they could tell, only about a tenth of the posts were from Trump supporters, and most of them weren’t serious about actually taking the vote away from women.
Indeed, some took it upon themselves to tell the world that #RepealThe19th was nothing more than a big goof.
https://twitter.com/jxn_w/status/786375859661737984
https://twitter.com/andeew2016/status/786342381964496896
Some even went so far as to claim that the hashtag was some kind of disinfo operation designed to make Trump supporters look bad:
https://twitter.com/commiesgohome/status/786441807492157440
But if this was all some big conspiracy against Trump supporters or the Alt-Right, someone forgot to tell this to the Alt-Righters who actually do want to roll back the 19th Amendment, some of whom had been using the hashtag already.
Consider, for example, Paul Ramsey (RAMZPAUL), the affable white supremacist YouTuber who’s been arguing publicly against women’s suffrage for at least as long as I’ve been running this blog (and probably a lot longer than that).
https://twitter.com/ramzpaul/status/786478584684830720
https://twitter.com/ramzpaul/status/786505386513854464
https://twitter.com/ramzpaul/status/786512496974626816
https://twitter.com/ramzpaul/status/786481791788060672
And apparently the female role involves a lot of not voting.
RAMZ is apparently unable to detect irony, because alongside all of these tweets he also posted this:
https://twitter.com/ramzpaul/status/786657673127272448
Then there is the woman known as Spacebunny, also known as Theodore “Vox Day” Beale’s apparently non-imaginary wife.
https://twitter.com/Spacebunnyday/status/786311866024734722
https://twitter.com/Spacebunnyday/status/784667107875229696
These guys seem, well, fairly sincere in their hatred of women voting as well:
https://twitter.com/RedPillScience/status/786392337328971776
https://twitter.com/RedPillScience/status/786389870901985280
https://twitter.com/huWhiteDaily/status/786362432692203520
More female control of government and taxation undermines marriage culture and family formation. pic.twitter.com/tAfNGHtOvU
— AnechoicMedia (@AnechoicMedia_) October 13, 2016
Only weak cucks think women should vote.
You aren't a weak cuck, are you?#RepealThe19th https://t.co/1UdA1lr9j9— Kali Yuga Wolf ⚡️⚡️ (@wolfofariosophy) October 13, 2016
Women say they won't vote for Trump due to locker room talk when THEY are NASTIER and DIRTIER about it. HYPOCRITES!! #RepealThe19th NOW!!!
— 👌Teutonic Plague 👌 (@AspieCapitalist) October 13, 2016
Women have been voting since 1920, and we all know how THAT turned out! #Repealthe19th, keep 'em out of polling places!
— 👌Teutonic Plague 👌 (@AspieCapitalist) October 13, 2016
#repealthe19th
Femenism = cancer pic.twitter.com/Xy5weiucTc— Aryan-American (@destory_marxism) October 13, 2016
#repealthe19th
Even most women think feminism is dumb. pic.twitter.com/rfklV7Tudc— Aryan-American (@destory_marxism) October 13, 2016
https://twitter.com/DinduReport/status/786334728408408064
But these days who knows who’s sincere or who’s trolling, or if there’s even a meaningful distinction between the two, at least when it comes to the most energetic shitposters in the Trump army.
Whether or not these guys really think women should be forbidden to vote, I feel fairly certain that they are really a bunch of hateful dicks.
@Jesalin
<3
@Hambeast
I'd wager it's simple distancing. From what I've seen of humanity (myself included), people tend to react more aggressively when the target is external. Saving other people or saving oneself from other people. Saving oneself from one's own actions doesn't have the same motivation factor. Don't know why, it just seems that way
ETA:
Also, what @kupo said!
I was gonna reply with some counters here, but – well, I’m sure you know them and have thought about them! Just a question or two instead, because I’m curious about your answers to them. First one’s sort of philosophical – is there a meaningful difference between us causing the extinction of every form of life on the planet and the extinction of arguably-sentient life on the planet? Second, there’s a not-unreasonable chance that our pollution could cause literally everything in the biosphere to die, a la Venus. Or has that been refuted at some point?
(Personal opinions follow)
Either way, I understand your sentiment – Nature’s tough – but I actually sympathize with the statement that we need to Save the Planet. Humanity controls and uses something along the lines of 98% of the worlds’ biomass. We’re well past the point where we can say that nature can just take care of itself – we’ve already torn out too much of it with our forestry and our monoculture farming and industrial fisheries. We’re no longer just occupants of the Garden of Eden, we’re the gardeners, and we’re doing a really, really bad job. In my opinion, we need to start gardening properly, and fast.
(All according to modern thoughts on motivation and drives), people have strong drives to defend. Defend anything, really. It’s a social drive, a way in which we indicate our loyalty to a group and gain stronger bonds with them. Social drives are very strong and can overcome the drive of self-preservation in many circumstances.
That’s just one possible explanation, though, I don’t have any citations on it
(Another edit, was in the first draft of my comment, but got deleted) I’m a little squeamish about framing environmentalism as “saving humanity”. I mean, it’s one of the most visceral ones, since, you know – I’m human, and like having a house and running water and all. But it sort of ignores the fact that there are billions of non-human but still valuable, feeling, living things out there that are pretty much incapable of protecting themselves from what we’re doing.
(Then again, we turn a blind eye to a lot of horrible things as a society. If people don’t care about factory farms, it’s unlikely they’ll care about desertification ending the lives of birds and other living things. So you may have a strong point in that)
Being a Trump supporter is a great reason to hate or strongly dislike someone. In fact, even considering voting for Trump would generally make me hate you. In fact in fact, even being “undecided” at this point means you deserve all the hatred* you get, to be honest.
*Hatred =|= harassment
http://i.imgur.com/vB8YFim.gif
@axe: better?
@IP: totally agree on hating Trump supporters. My objection was to the casual assumption that all men support Trump.
Ah well. I’m out. Until the next time I need the wind taken out of me.
Everyone, have a wonderful day.
@Starfury
It’s totally apologia, and Wong isn’t saying what he thinks he is.
From the article:
That trope is literally as old as cities, but can’t be used as an explanation for supporting Donald Trump, who embodies the archetype of the corrupt big city wheeler-dealer, born and raised in the most urban of U.S. cities, NYC.
That makes it better somehow? coded racisn is still racism.
Cry me a fucking river. Everybody’s got a culture, and city people are a lot more likely to find themeselves dealing with someone else’s. And the majority of us just deal with it and move the hell on with our lives.
Yes. That kind of what cities do.
Gee, I wonder who’s fault that is? Maybe if y’all didn’t worship the GOP with greater fervor than you do Jesus and vote accordingly, you wouldn’t be looking down the wrong end of economic catastrophe now. This is where voting bigot on social issues gets you, and I’ve not one iota of sympathy left.
This. Right the fuck here. And the paragraphs that follow. This is why I have zero fucking sympathy.
Kupo – Nah, not much is too lefty for me; just disappointed they don’t take the rhetoric far enough IMHO.
JoeB – Yes! This is what I’d like to see. I wonder, though, if stating things this way is seen as overstating the case or fear mongering?
@Joekster
Which never happened. Again, you need to sit down and read that post again. And then again. And then, you guessed it, read again another time. Keep reading it until you understand that:
1) it’s not about you.
2) It’s not even about all men.
3) It’s fucking true, whether or not you feel good about that truth and regardless of how it makes you feel about the way a group you’re part of is perceived.
@Scildfreja
I was more getting at it from a marketing perspective. How the issue is framed to others matters. I think that, given the choice and whether that was the original consideration or not, we’re best served with ‘save the planet’ as far as framing. And thanks for the knowledge drop 🙂
@Joek
http://i61.tinypic.com/dy7pdt.gif
In order: not really better but correct, nobody cares, and I suspect literally all the time
Kupo – If I’m missing the implied ‘Planet with a functioning biosphere’ I wonder how many others are, too? Of course, I could very well *be* that clueless.
Axe – Didn’t think of distancing, that’s interesting.
Sjildfreya – I totally agree with you! I ignored it in my lament because saving species and habitats other than our own doesn’t seem to be enough of an incentive for too many people. Probably should have mentioned it in my original comment. *hangs head*
Dalillama – Thank you for the take-down of that article! I found myself side-eying it, but couldn’t even formulate another bad lament.
Before I discovered internet feminism, the fat-o-sphere, and the old Sciblogs, I thought I was a smart person. I mean, above-average-intelligent-in-all-the-things-smart. I’m humbled every day by all the smart folks here and thankful for you! It’s always a feast of food for thought!
@Dallilama–thanks. I saw the piece in Cracked, and I just couldn’t even.
I am sick to death of being told that I, as a struggling lower-middle-class American from a liberal urban area can’t possible understand what life is LIIIIIIKE for struggling lower-middle-class Americans from…frankly…usually the burbs of big red-state cities.
I probably shouldn’t start ranting, but this was the entire Sarah Palin schtick, and it pissed me off then, and it pisses me off now.
@joekster
Shit like this? Not raising my opinion of men.
@ Hambeast Enough people are talking about it that it has an acronym: NTHE
https://guymcpherson.com/2014/09/the-truth-about-near-term-human-extinction/
Guy McPherson and Carolyn Baker are probably the most outspoken people on the subject.
@IP
If someone is a Trump supporter it certainly tells me all I need to know about their character and (lack of) morals.
@Dali
That was an awesome deconstruction of Wong’s article! Fully agree!
@Dalillama: thanks for the takedown of that Cracked stronsmosity (that’s a mixed-up monstrosity, in case anyone wonders). Wong’s been on my radar for “only half right, and ultimately still falls on the wrong side” ever since this. So I went into that one already side-eyeing the source…and utterly infuriated by the fall-down-on-ass “conclusion” he drew, too.
BTW, here’s a corrective to the whole “city vs. country voters” canard. Turns out that it’s not as simple as Wong tried to boil it down to be. Oopsie!
guest – Thanks to you for that link, it answers a lot of my questions! Especially this part:
Highly intimidating, indeed!
Joekster,
Could your flounce be any more passive aggressive?
We don’t exist to educate you about privilege and “taking the wind out of your sails” is actually tiring for us too.
It’s nice that when you make a misstep and we call it out that you don’t have a meltdown and declare yourself on the side of the misogynists, but you’ve done this a lot. You need to take the next step and not repeat your mistakes every time you come here.
I really think you need to Google “how to be an ally” and read up before you come back. We aren’t getting frustrated with you to be mean and gleefully take you down a peg.
@ Paradoxical: Absolutely! Cheeseburgers and frosting don’t go together at all! I do like ice cream, though, and cheeseburgers and ice cream sound fantastic together, so… Maybe?
@ Everyone else: Hey, thank you so much for the warm welcome. That is all.
Oh wait. I googled cat and found this:
Somehow it sums up everything. (At least if I did this right.)
@Frigid virgin
I don’t remember if I welcomed you, but if not, welcome! I love the cat gif. ^o^
@Frigid Virgin: Welcome!
And in very belated response to your earlier question — no, “delusional” doesn’t count as an ablist slur, since absolutely anyone can fall victim to delusions. Use away to your heart’s content.
@Frigid Virgin
Welcome in.
@Bina
That too; for all I ripped into rural conservative voters above, (and they deserve the vitriol) white supremacist politics these days is principally based in the suburbs, and that includes a lot of ‘liberal’ suburban whites too. Indeed, suburban white America is directly responsible for the economic decay of inner cities, the catastrophic state of education in predominantly black areas, and the marginal at best infrastructure of urban and rural America alike. Also a large portion of the US contribution to climate change, come to that.
Basically from the beginning the automobile suburbs* they’ve existed as vehicles of white supremacy and as parasites on urban areas. They were built principally on the back of VA loans, which allowed white men who were veterans (a considerable portion of white men at the time on account of the draft being used in both world wars). Black veterans were denied loans to purchase new homes, and if they got a loan at all, it was to purchase a preexisting home in the city. The suburbs were also explicitly segregated; even if a black person could have gotten a loan, they couldn’t have bought a house in a Levittown. Nor could Asians, Hispanics, Jews, or in some cases Catholics. The formal restrictions are gone now, but the practice remains strong. So, a lot of white people ended up working in the city and living in the suburbs, commuting there in a[n expensive] car; the suburbs have no transit, nowhere to walk, and no amenities near enough to walk to. If you can’t afford a car (or, more to the point, can’t get a car loan, like black people couldn’t), you can’t live in the suburbs, or even visit them. And the suburbs like it that way.
In the U.S, much infrastructure is funded by property taxes. Particularly, public education and public transportation are heavily funded in this way. These property taxes are set, administered, and distributed on a county or city level,*** which is where the problem comes in: All these suburbs are unincorporated or incorporated separately from the cities they prey on.The taxes paid in Westchester don’t pay for schools in Harlem†, because Westchester is allegedly its own city, despite existing solely as an adjunct of NYC and relying on NYCs economy for its prosperity. And Westchester residents who work in NYC don’t pay a dime in tax to support the subway system, or the sewage system, sidewalks and firefighters and all.
*’suburbs’ of one sort or another have existed as long as cities have, but streetcars and then cars have allowed them to take on distinct characteristics which I am discussing here.**
**also this is a particularly American perspective, although from what I know many suburbs elsewhere operate similarly.
*** Sometimes smaller; school districts are often organized in such a way that revenue from a particular district’s taxes only goes to that district, rather than into a general pool to be allocated on a per-student basis over a large area.
†Chosen for name recognition; I could as easily use Lake Oswego and Albina, which is the local version, or any number of other places.
To say that anyone who even considers voting for Trump deserves hatred feels a bit… extreme? Not sure what the exact word I’m looking for, here, but it makes me uncomfortable. And I say that as someone who despises Trump and pretty much everything about him.
Because my mom’s uncle and his wife, at least the last time my parents talked to them about the issue, were planning to vote Trump. They’re wonderful people, warm and generous, who emigrated to the US from Egypt several decades ago (yes, I also think it’s a bit ridiculous considering Trump’s views on immigration from Muslim countries, but I guess since they’re not Muslim themselves they don’t see it as somehing that would’ve affected them?), they’re both retired doctors who spent time volunteering for Doctors Without Borders, they are unquestionably smart and educated – and yet, being longtime Republicans and right-leaning in general, they are apparently at least considering voting for Trump (if they haven’t changed their minds recently). I can’t fathom it, personally, but I don’t think it makes them deserve hatred.
Then there’s my BF. Who is also a wonderful man, kind and thoughtful and complex and just, really, maybe the best person I know. And he’s also smart, and well-read, and he’s really into history and current affairs and such – but he also happens to be generally right-wing, and he dislikes the idea of Clinton as president enough to want to vote for Trump. I tend not to talk to him about politics because it’s something we’re so divided on (and as someone who does not read even a fraction as much news and history and such, and is generally non-confrontational, it’s not the kind of arguing I’d feel comfortable with, anyway), but I was curious and asked him, and yeah, he feels like Trump will make a better president (I’m not sure if he’d change his mind in light of recent events and meltdowns, because again, it’s not a topic we talk about much, but I think his dislike of Clinton might be strong enough that he won’t budge). And again, I can’t really fathom it, but I respect him, and I respect that he takes the time to think about these decisions, even if I disagree with them. And to say that this makes him deserve hatred? Hatred? This man who’s there for me when I need him, who understands my weirdnesses, who makes me happy, the man I love, deserves hatred, because of his political opinion? I can’t accept it, I just can’t.
(Thankfully, he lives in a blue state – come to think of it, so does my mom’s uncle – so the consequences of voting for Trump would be minimized, if not inexistent. So there’s that.)
Sorry, I thought it might be a lead balloon but didn’t realise the extent. I just see his approach as being one of saying things how other people see it but debunking it at the same time, rather than stating them as his own opinions.
http://www.cracked.com/article_19785_5-ways-modern-men-are-trained-to-hate-women.html
Weirdly, that article was what started me on the path that lead me here eventually. I had always felt there was loads of stuff wrong with the world but people’s eyes glazed over when I talked about it or they got angry with me so I stopped. That was the first thing I ever came across that dealt with male entitlement and it felt great to see someone addressing the issue . It made me feel like I wasn’t alone and maybe I would feel differently about it if I read it now, years later and with more experience of reading about people discussing the same things, but it meant something to me at the time