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Birth.Movies.Death top editor Devin Faraci steps down after sexual assault accusation

Faraci, in happier times
Faraci, in happier times

After that now infamous tape of Donald Trump boasting about grabbing women’s private parts came out on Friday, film critic Devin Faraci — a self-described feminist and one of the more aggressive opponents of GamerGate — took to Twitter to excoriate Trump’s abominable remarks.

Then this happened:

devin faraci ✔ @devincf The most telling thing about the Trump tape? He wasn't talking with his best friends. He was boasting to a TV host. Follow INVISIGOTH @spacecrone @devincf quick question: do you remember grabbing me by the pussy and bragging to our friends about it, telling them to smell your fingers? 1:04 PM - 9 Oct 2016

In a series of tweets, @spacecrone told the whole story:

INVISIGOTH @spacecrone @devincf I've been forced to think about you a lot since these trump tapes came out. 1:05 PM - 9 Oct 2016 138 138 Retweets 405 405 likes Follow INVISIGOTH @spacecrone sitting here trying to remember if a man had ever grabbed me by the vagina against my will and, well, yes, a popular Twitter feminist! 1:09 PM - 9 Oct 2016 222 222 Retweets 428 428 likes Follow INVISIGOTH @spacecrone Literally stuck his hands down my pants at a bar while I told him to stop, then told our friends he had 'fingerbanged me'

The accusation stopped Faraci in his tracks. He didn’t quite admit that it was true, but he also kind of did. And he asked for forgiveness for something he said he couldn’t remember doing.

faraci4

This was on Sunday. Today, Faraci resigned as Editor-In-Chief of Birth.Movies.Death, saying:

This weekend allegations were made about my past behavior. Because I take these types of claims seriously I feel my only honorable course of action is to step down from my position as Editor-in-Chief of Birth.Movies.Death. I will use the coming weeks and months to work on becoming a better person who is, I hope, worthy of the trust and loyalty of my friends and readers.

He still hasn’t quite admitted to anything, but @spacecrone says she’s heartened that Faraci seems sincere in his contrition.

“I am really happy that it sounds like Devin is interested in getting help about this, and I’m open to any accountability processing that might be part of his treatment,” she told Variety.

I really hope this can be a moment of self-interrogation for all of us, myself included, about the ways we might use positions of power to silence people, and the ways we all turn away from things that might seem a little too complicated to deal with.

Faraci’s alleged assault is more proof (as if we needed any) that being on the “right side” on the issues — in Faraci’s case, taking on GamerGaters, calling for greater representation of women in the movie business, and so forth — does not automatically make you a good person. (Hugo Schwyzer, anyone?)

As it turns out (as it so often turns out) plenty of people — and not just GamerGaters — have been pointing out seriously assholish language (and behavior) from Faraci for some time. In the wake of @spacecrone’s accusation, writer and Bibliodaze co-editor @Ceilidhann set forth some of her issues with Faraci on Twitter:

(By “this site” she means Twitter.)

Naturally, the Gamergaters, have seized on Faraci’s alleged sexual assault as an excuse to attack, well, the same women they always attack.

Because of course.

H/T — The Daily Dot, NYMag, GamerGhazi

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Kylo Ronin
Kylo Ronin
4 years ago

Yeah, this douchebag.

If someone who puts as their headline focusing on an actress’s boobs as opposed to, y’know, reviewing the movie, then clearly this dude is a totally cool guy.

He’s also been kicked off other movie websites, like CHUD and Collider, before being relegated to smaller websites.

Just a filmbuff chipping in their two cents. I’ll go back to lurking.

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

Which is why I tell everyone I talk to about this: Feminism isn’t about being “above reproach”, it’s about holding myself and those who claim to stand under the banner of “equal rights” with me under a far more powerful scrutiny than your average person who does not. Because the average person doesn’t have the level of understanding about sexism that most feminists do. We’ve steeped ourselves in this shit for a long time, we’ve done the research, we’ve refuted the PRATTs, we’ve walked the walk, so to speak. We should know better.

So when someone who claims to be a feminist (doubly so if they’re a cis dude, because they lack the understanding that women have of sexism) fucks up, as we’ve seen here, we have to also examine ourselves and our allies a little more closely to see if we’ve/they’ve been pulling the same shit to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

And, of course, we have to deal with the anti-feminist asshole squad jumping on our backs about it, and no, they’ll never stop bringing it up, as though we’re responsible for one individual’s actions.

I am happy that Faraci did the right thing, and is trying to make amends though. Not happy that he did the awful thing in the first place, and he deserves all the outrage and shunning, but I am happy that he’s not doubling down (or, gods forbid, pulling a fucking Trump).

Lea
Lea
4 years ago

A man turned out to be a sexual predator pretending to be an ally and it’s somehow an excuse to punish women?

Is there anything that they won’t use as an excuse to harass women?

Iseult The Idle
Iseult The Idle
4 years ago

Well, huh. Twitter turns out to have a use other than @mysadcat.

I’m kinda shocked.

Bina
4 years ago

His “making amends” smells suspiciously like that of those two PUA douchebags in North Carolina — I forget their names — the ones who ran that coffee shop. Mouthing some vaguely right-sounding words isn’t enough, dude.

Kylo Ronin
Kylo Ronin
4 years ago

@Bina

Bingo. Dude can’t make what he did go away by saying a nonapology.

Bina
4 years ago

@Kylo — right? I hope I’m wrong about him, but somehow I doubt it. This guy’s name has been cropping up in problematic contexts time and again. I don’t think this is just something he did while blacked-out blotto. I think there’s a larger pattern, same as with Drumpf.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
4 years ago

Yeah, I got nothin…
This is his fault and his doing, but not exclusively. Believe. Dammit…

Ghost Robot
Ghost Robot
4 years ago

I’ve been following film blogging since it more or less began. It often feels like the caffeinated fourteen year old boy attitude of the likes of Ain’t It Cool News has never totally gone away, even though the bloggers themselves are around middle age now. Between the truly obnoxious entitlement, the personal slams on filmmakers, the blatant shilling and slobbering sex talk, there’s been a huge problem in these circles for years.

I first came to Faraci via his writing for CHUD, and enjoyed the snarky humour of some of his reviews, but it quickly became apparent that he had some serious axes to grind. Like a lot of fanboys/fangirls, he doesn’t take disappointment well, and his ferocious obsession with Damon Lindelof over the Lost finale demonstrated that he seemingly couldn’t let things lie. Then there’s the feud with Joe Swanberg – resolved with a literal boxing match – and his ongoing personal attacks on Kevin Smith (see his review of Cop Out). He’s also repeatedly used the word “retarded” to denigrate the site of an FB friend of mine, despite being made aware many times that the guy who runs it has two special needs children.

Every now and then, he made a point I would agree with, like when he expressed disdain for the commodification of childhood nostalgia, or the entitled behaviour of some fans (yes, coming from him, I know), but they were essentially stopped clock moments.

In hindsight, he was never really an ally, just someone who happened to be anti-GamerGate because they were right-wingers and he identified as sorta, kinda left. He could just as easily have been a GG-er in different circumstances. To learn that his lack of respect for the boundaries of others extends to sexually assaulting women isn’t much of a surprise.

He’s also not the only proclaimed progressive in the film blogging sphere with questionable-to-assholish attitudes, either. I’ve been side-eyeing most of the veteran AICN crew for years, along with some of the CHUD contributors.

Ooglyboggles
4 years ago

Yeah I’ll believe that he turned a new leaf when I see it. Also to get this out of my chest, GG the reason why it isn’t hypocritical when feminists can reject a member but they can’t when they say that person isn’t GG isn’t because some “holier than thou”, it’s “this person has gone against what feminism stands for.” When GG does it, it is always to eject anyone that makes them look bad, not that they need any help on looking bad, even though that person has done everything they are for, mainly harassment of women and espousing a desire to never ever change. Kind of like this guy.
comment image

Dan Kasteray
Dan Kasteray
4 years ago

Nurgle is friendly, unlike these fucking assholes.

Ooglyboggles
4 years ago

@Dan Kasteray
You’re right, I should have used the Horned Rat, the assholishness of Tzeentch with the ugly traditionalisms of Nurgle.

Kylo Ronin
Kylo Ronin
4 years ago

@Ghost Robot

I know too well the attitudes of the type that frequents places like AICN, CHUD, Collider, and various other film sites.

Hell, I was a contributor to one that was started up by a commenter from AICN.

Note the emphasis on was. One of the other contributors posted an extremely vile, misogynistic and sexist “review” (air quotes because it wasn’t a review) of Suicide Squad and none of the other contributors even blinked. Personally, I detested the movie but there was no need for that disgusting “verbiage” on the movie. Next day, I straight up told them that I quit and they couldn’t understand why. Saddens me

C’est la vie.

Tragedy of the Commas
Tragedy of the Commas
4 years ago

He writes movie reviews? I’ve only ever seen or heard of Faraci when people on social media want proof of either supposed liberal hypocrisy or proof that self-labeling as a thing, e.g. feminist, does not magically turn you into said thing. You have to work at being the thing. So, yeah, I half-seriously thought his job was being a terrible person on Twitter so that anti-feminists had the perfect straw man to scream about.

And, of course, we have to deal with the anti-feminist asshole squad jumping on our backs about it, and no, they’ll never stop bringing it up, as though we’re responsible for one individual’s actions.

There’s a lot of exactly that coming up in the news lately. Such as the attempts to distract from Trump’s sexual assaults–including a lawsuit claiming that he raped a 13 year old girl–by shifting the focus to Bill Clinton. As if Bill Clinton’s actions are Hilary Clinton’s responsibility. I think it’d be a hellish state of affairs if our integrity always had to be judged by the worst actions of our partners. Sure, we can think of people who partnered with and empowered toxic people. But it’d also mean blaming victims of abuse for their abusers. In addition, resorting to “tu quoque”, in response to claims of long-standing habits of boasting about harassment and vomiting misogynistic opinions, doesn’t deny the existence of those things. If anything, it comes off as an admission of guilt and an inability to defend one’s behavior.

EJ (The Orphic Lizard)

Can I just point out that I love this community? Ooglyboggles made a Nurgle reference as the capstone of an amazingly on-point rant and didn’t have to explain it. The geek is strong here, and unlike a lot of geek places it doesn’t have terrible people in it.

I love you all so much. Please accept a happy giraffe hug picture.

http://pixdaus.com/files/items/pics/9/47/272947_a73bfd0e13c6997c9c63dd73265c5bf4_large.jpg

Also, I really admire @spacecrone for her courage in posting that on twitter. What an absolute badass.

NotABul
NotABul
4 years ago

Now, any musing beginning with the idea, I do not wish to, is already starting behind an eight-ball. And I think I am still new enough that perhaps, Mr. Futrelle, will catch this post, and if I am about to say something incredibly stupid or insensitive, perhaps he’ll stop me from doing so. If this is the case, then I thank him profusely, and I apologise.

But on the chance he will not. I would like to preface what I am about to say. I do not wish to break any of the comment rules here, and I do not wish to victim blame. I am not attempting to deny any of @spacecrone ‘s words, or cast aspersion on her character. I take her accusation seriously, and I do believe her. I also do think that when you (Faraci in this instance) acknowledge that, you can’t remember something, but think you probably did it. You are saying more than you mean, and are likely acknowledging your guilt. That isn’t a 100% certainty, bu nothing is. I would then like to close this preface, by saying I do believe @Spacecrone, and I hope that Mr. Faraci is sincere in his contrition. Lastly that I hope anyone else Mr. Faraci has harmed, and his initial victim recover fully from their ordeal.

But. Because I feel I need to, because it has not been brought up, and to do so I need to assume the role of Devil’s Advocate, and ask two questions. The first one is rhetorical, because I think it’s a little indefensible, but again necessary.

Until Faraci acknowledges guilt, (which I think he kind of did.) Is he not presumed innocent, but accused?

Secondly, I noticed a few people in the comments before me, stating that he requires more than a Non-apology. Which is true. But at least one other person along with his victim, commented that at least he seemed contrite, and was attempting to get help. He seemed to be trying to do the right thing. Mr. Faraci didn’t fight his accusation, and he immediately stepped down. I realize he has more to do. Seek counseling, address her grievance, and accept what consequences and/or punishment come from that. Take accountability, repay, what debt he owes, and attempt in whatever best fashion, (As I certainly don’t know what it would be.) To correct his action, and be forgiven.

Now. Mr. Faraci, from what is being revealed seems like a first rate Asshole, who is unlikely to change. If that is the case, then absolutely he deserves to be shunned, and likely punished by the courts. But my question is.

Do we never forgive him? Is this an offense beyond the pale? (Damn that sounds terrible, of course it is, he sexually assaulted someone.) But I do wish to know, and would appreciate if someone would help educate me.

Do we not forgive people who are legitimately contrite, and who seek help, after they take accountability for their actions, and pay their debt to society?

Because it is starting to sound exceptionally cynical, and cruel. It sounds like some are writing off his seemingly sincere attempt to take accountability, and get help, as another non-apology, from a serial abuser. And if (in the incredibly rare chance.) Mr. Faraci is in fact sincere, that is not how we help rehabilitate people. That’s how you drive people away, and make yourself look unreasonable.

Or I could just be an idiot. That’s possible too.

Malitia
Malitia
4 years ago

UGH… I Like Birth Movies Death.

Not Faraci that much mind you. Guy came always across as sort of an arrogant asshole to me, as the personification of the xkcd strip about finding a way to feel superior to both sides, to be specific. :/

snork maiden
4 years ago

@NotABul,

yeah, I get what you’re saying. If we don’t forgive people who are genuinely sorry, who genuinely seek to make amends, then what incentive is there for anyone to admit culpability or seek to change? They may as well double down like Trump or Cosby and hope that their fanbase and their public image is enough to carry them through.

Regarding what everyone else is saying about self identifying (frequently hetero male) feminists letting the side down, I’ve my own experience of that. Ages ago I was friends with some male feminist comedian who then made a rape joke on his page, he was joking about raping men which is unfortunately why he got away with it; I called him out on it and he went ballistic, blocked me from his account and then posted our exchange on his page so he and his fans could ridicule me. I’m not sure all self identifying feminists understand what the word means.

Imaginary Petal
Imaginary Petal
4 years ago

@NotABul

This is not a court of law. We don’t have to assume him innocent until proven guilty. We can use our critical thinking faculties to come to a reasonable conclusion about this, just as we do with everything in life. When we conclude that gravity is real, we don’t wait for a court of law to tell us so. The trial decides whether he will be punished by law. It does not dictate public opinion or the opinion of any individual.

Whether or not we can forgive, is not a collective decision. It’s up to you if you want to forgive someone or not. Personally, I don’t really understand forgiveness. I don’t know what it means. I know that I would never feel comfortable interacting with someone who has committed sexual assault. I know that I don’t have in my brain the thing that makes one assault people, and I can’t relate to those who do.

To me, a sexual assaulter is someone who can sexually assault again. Maybe they will or won’t, I don’t know. I don’t have any way of knowing. But I do know there are plenty of people who haven’t committed sexual assault. I’d rather spend time with those people.

Nice concern trolling at the end there, by the way. You kinda blew your cover there.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

This weekend allegations were made about my past behavior. Because I take these types of claims seriously I feel my only honorable course of action is to step down from my position as Editor-in-Chief of Birth.Movies.Death.

I take these types of claims seriously?

WTF.

What’s he saying: that he’ll investigate the claims?

If he finds them to be false, will he get his old job back?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ notabul

With regard to your two main points I’ll just throw this in:

Presumption of innocence – firstly it seems he’s admitting the offence (albeit in a roundabout non committal sort of way) but in general we apply different standards in different circumstances. So if the state is going to impose criminal penalties we’ll require that they prove their case to a very high standard. If you want to get rid of an employee then you can do so on a lower standard of proof. But for individual people then they can apply whatever standards they choose. It’s entirely up to individuals how they regard other people. So if people are satisfied on their own standard that someone did something then they’re perfectly entitled to feel that way. We do that all the time; that’s how society works.

Foregiveness – I’m of the option that the only people entitled to forgive someone are the victims. I’d actually go a bit further. I think people who go on about general forgiveness are putting undue pressure on victims by implying that there’s some moral duty on victims to forgive.

Other opinions may differ of course.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@NotABul

It sounds like some are writing off his seemingly sincere attempt to take accountability, and get help, as another non-apology, from a serial abuser.

Snort.

His apology was outstandingly nonapologetic. In fact, he didn’t say he was sorry. He just begged for forgiveness:

I do not remember this. I can only believe you and beg forgiveness for having been so vile.

And here’s his resignation letter. No apology here either:

This weekend allegations were made about my past behavior. Because I take these types of claims seriously I feel my only honorable course of action is to step down from my position as Editor-in-Chief of Birth.Movies.Death. I will use the coming weeks and months to work on becoming a better person who is, I hope, worthy of the trust and loyalty of my friends and readers.

“Allegations were made…” By whom? That you did what?

“Because I take these types of claims seriously…” What–you don’t know if you did it? You’ll investigate?

If this guy wants to apologize for his nonapology and his unapologetic resignation letter and then demonstrate that he’s a better person, I’ll consider forgiving him.

Until then?

I’ll be here, laughing at how he attempts to avoid taking responsibility for his life choices.

rugbyyogi
rugbyyogi
4 years ago

@David

FYI and completely off-topic, but sometimes when I click read more it actually shows me the main image – that is the link is going to the URL where the main image is hosted. This happens a lot, too often for me to think I’m just clicking on the wrong thing – and happened 3 times today with this post. I use Chrome.

It’s not a major thing… just a slight annoyance, so might be worth a look when/if you do a revamp.

ChiefSpook
ChiefSpook
4 years ago

*sniffs*

I smell, I smell… A desperate scramble to try and save face.

If and IF this asshole is genuine, I’ll be impressed. Till then. Ew.

Also, I’m with everyone else. How the hell is he going to “investigate” these claims? Ask his totally impartial bros?

Edit to say: Hi guys. Long time lurker.

Diptych
Diptych
4 years ago

@rugbyyogi – I have had that happen too. My barely-tested entirely-unscientific guess is that it resulted from clicking on “Read More” before the page had fully loaded – especially ’cause once the banner ads loaded, they moved the header image down to the exact spot where the button had previously been.

As for the topic at hand… never heard of the guy, but, yeah, presumption of innocence is a principle that applies to judicial rulings, not the opinions of private individuals. And, yeah, whatever “forgiveness” really means, surely it’s the prerogative of the victim, not us bystanders. What would that even mean, us forgiving him? And, for that matter, who would have the sheer gall to forgive a criminal before the victim has? “This man raped you, but don’t worry – I’m prepared to forgive him”? Who would say that, outside of the villains of some tasteless farce?

Shalimar
Shalimar
4 years ago

His statement is bullshit. There were 2 parts to her claim, the sexual assault and the bragging about it. “I can only believe you” may work for the first part if he was too drunk to remember, but for the second, it isn’t hard to go to all the people you bragged to and ask for confirmation. He sounds like an employer promising an investigation of something that happened at the workplace, not the groper. Nice that he will search his soul and get to the bottom of this.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

This weekend allegations were made about my past behavior. Because I take these types of claims seriously I feel my only honorable course of action is to step down from my position as Editor-in-Chief of Birth.Movies.Death. I will use the coming weeks and months to work on becoming a better person who is, I hope, worthy of the trust and loyalty of my friends and readers.

“Allegations were made about my past behavior.” It’s in the past, people. Nothing to see here.

“I feel that my only honorable course of action…” There’s only one honorable course of action. Refraining from sticking my hand down a woman’s pants isn’t that action.

“I will use the coming weeks and months to work on becoming a better person…” This “work” must of course remain unspecified.

“…who is, I hope, worthy of the trust and loyalty of my friends and readers.” I hope I’m worthy. In fact, I know I am. I’ll still have friends. And I’ll still have readers. I’m not going anywhere!

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

Ultraviolet Action is an online feminist group. They’ve got a petition asking Gov. Rick Scott of Florida to, in the wake of Hurricane Matthew, extend the deadline for voter registration. Apparently lots of people register to vote just before an election.

Want to sign?

Click here:

http://act.weareultraviolet.org/sign/Florida_Vote?akid=s153135..-NVvrA

Ghost Robot
Ghost Robot
4 years ago

@Kylo Ronin Ugh, that’s awful. That’s a film that would bring out the knuckle-draggers, sadly. I’ve written for a couple of sites myself in the past, and fortunately they’ve been really genuine about inclusivity. The plethora of bad ones are why I don’t read much film criticism these days.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

I can’t speak for victims and what they would want from someone who wronged them in specific terms. But in general making amends does have a structure that is useful to be able to line up with what we see in society.

*Apologize for what you did in specific terms and be able to name names (if appropriate) to tie those things to.
*Be able to express how your made other people feel in specific terms. Again, be able to name names if appropriate.
*Be able to describe future you. Be able to describe what you want to be like instead of what you have been. Make sure this picture is based off of how you made others felt.
*If intentions are to get involved they only factor in when finding acceptable ways of meeting needs with future you. It’s entirely up to the victim(s) if intent is to be worth anything.

It’s also useful to get some help in doing this since society is not very good at this process, but that can be difficult for a lot of reasons.

If I’m missing anything feel free to add.

runsinbackground
runsinbackground
4 years ago

Never trust a “male feminist”. How is this hard to understand?

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

Never trust a “male feminist”. How is this hard to understand?

Um…because one doesn’t fight social issues using their genitalia? Or am I doing it wrong?

Joekster-betas bearded, sheeple shamed, dragons derailed. Reasonable rates.
Joekster-betas bearded, sheeple shamed, dragons derailed. Reasonable rates.
4 years ago

Yeah, this is why I don’t self-identify as a feminist or feminist ally. I know myself well enough to know that I’d try to take that as a license to be a bigger a-hole than I already am.

Regarding NotABul’s comment, I have noticed people on the internet tend to jump to conclusions rather quickly. However, this post is the first time I’ve ever heard of Mr. Faraci (I just had to scroll up to confirm the name), so there is probably more in his past posts to validate the above conclusions in this case.

@IP: I do believe in forgiveness. I believe that it is a part of the healing process, and that a person cannot move on from a traumatic event without somehow coming to terms with the person responsible for it*. Many people find forgiveness helps them to do so. I don’t know if I’d be able to forgive someone who violently assaulted or raped me. I hope I’d be able to, but I don’t know.

I do not think, however, that any person has a right to demand another person forgive anyone (well, any person other than God, of course). If the victim does not make the decision to forgive on their own, than they loose most of the psychological benefit of the action. The decision to forgive someone who has wronged another person has to come from the person who was wronged. Otherwise, there is no point to it.

*A Lutheran pastor I once knew (divorced woman Lutheran pastor, so she probably has more insight into it than I do) once described it in this way: ‘refusing to forgive someone is like keeping your hands locked around their throat: they can’t do anything, but neither can you’. Apologies if that sounds trite, but it matches my limited experience with the subject.

The other thing she’d say is this, ‘Just because you forgive a child molester doesn’t mean you let that molester teach Sunday School’.

Joekster-betas bearded, sheeple shamed, dragons derailed. Reasonable rates.
Joekster-betas bearded, sheeple shamed, dragons derailed. Reasonable rates.
4 years ago

@runsinbackground: you realize Dave Futrelle identifies as male?

Diptych
Diptych
4 years ago

Never trust a “male feminist”. How is this hard to understand?

Um…because one doesn’t fight social issues using their genitalia? Or am I doing it wrong?

For that matter, genitalia doesn’t define gender, but I take your point.

Fred_the_dog
Fred_the_dog
4 years ago

I think forgiveness means different things to different people. For myself, forgiveness means I can let the person back into my life and trust them again (it has taken time to realize this is not what forgiveness means to most people). Some terrible things were done to me in the past, and I cannot let those people back in, ever. I don’t think about them much (not even sure where any of them are these days) nor do I let their past actions dictate my life, but I can’t ever trust them, either. So, no forgiveness on my part; they can’t come back. But I also don’t feel a need to wish them ill, and I hope they have been able to learn and change their ways — and this last part is how I think most people view forgiveness.

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

@Diptych
Yeah, sorry. I know better than to imply that.

Diptych
Diptych
4 years ago

You’re good; no biggie!

pitshade
pitshade
4 years ago

With the ink not even dry on the accusation, already sounds the cry, “Has he not suffered enough?” Must be a day that ends in why?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago
Paul Beaulieu
Paul Beaulieu
4 years ago

Yeah, saying “well, I don’t remember doing it but I guess I probably did” is an answer that, at my most charitable, indicates someone who’s in the habit of getting severely intoxicated and using that to evade responsibility. Sort of like when Toronto Mayor Rob Ford said “sure, I probably smoked crack in one of my drunken stupors”.

And he can’t be unaware of the fact that he’s using intoxication in that way if his reaction is not “I could never do that however drunk or high I was” but rather “I don’t remember so I can’t really be responsible but I guess I did so please forgive me and I will try to get myself fixed through treatment now that I’ve been called on it”

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

As a person who has been violated by another person: I’ve managed to move on in my life without forgiving the person who did it, and it’s worked for me just fine.

Now, I understand not everyone can do this. Not everyone can go through carrying that visceral hatred in their heart, and if they want to forgive someone who has hurt them the same way I was hurt, then that’s their prerogative.

However, I won’t ever accept anyone telling me I should forgive the bastard who did what he did to me because whatever reason (religion, “healing”, “it’s the right thing to do”, etc.).

Because my hatred for that man is my motivation. It’s what gets me out of bed in the morning. I live to spite that asshole because he didn’t just violate me, he broke me. He made me believe I was worth less than the dirt he walked on every single day of my life, and I’m still feeling the effects of it. I still have issues with my self-worth and I still suffer from depression and social anxiety. I will never be the same person I was before that shit-fuck came into my life, and neither will my family. The two siblings he gave me (and the only good thing he brought into this world, as far as I’m concerned), and my mother both have suffered at his hands as well.

And I had to go to two separate trials to prove it. And I proved it both times.

On top of that, he also has sexually harassed my sister (his biological child) from prison by sending her disgusting letters, and roped another woman into being “in love” with him, and thus encouraged her to harass my mother via Facebook. He’s an unrepentant asshole who doesn’t give two flying fucks about anyone but himself.

So, fuck ‘im. I’m glad he’s rotting in prison, and I personally can’t wait until he drops dead so I can dance on his fucking grave.

EDIT: Almost forgot about that bastard’s mother, who blackmailed me into silence* when she caught him abusing me, and forced my sister to be her little porcelain doll.

Oh, and she sided with him, of course, and blamed me personally for her father-in-law’s death, because he got sick and died right around the time of the trial.

Yeah, not forgiving her either.

*Pretty much telling me if my mother found out that he was abusing me, she’d blame me and send me away to a girl’s home and I’d never see my family again. As you can imagine, that shut me up pretty good.

Weird (not wired) Eddie
Weird (not wired) Eddie
4 years ago

his reaction is not “I could never do that however drunk or high I was” but rather

… but rather, “I was high and don’t remember, so I can apologize for doing it WITHOUT HAVING TO ACTUALLY OWN having done it.”

Jesalin
Jesalin
4 years ago

Never trust a “male feminist”. How is this hard to understand?

Maybe I’m being over-sensitive but, define male. Would you consider a trans-woman to be male? How about a trans-male? How about we just recognize that some people mis-represent themselves for whatever reason and not tar whole groups with the same brush?

OT: Is there an intro section somewhere or should I just say ‘Hi, I’m new ~^.^~’ here?

Weird (not wired) Eddie
Weird (not wired) Eddie
4 years ago

@ Paradoxical

you have my empathy and respect, my friend, I wish you well.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ paradoxy

Well said (as usual). You remind me of a song some friends did about someone who went through something similar to you. You might appreciate it.

Heading out of Bradford with a ticket on the train
And a faith as hard as steel and as sharp as any pain
Gets pictures in the papers smiling oh so good
While she lies in bed with racing dreams hot as blood
Because love will make you happy and love will keep you warm
And love will build a cushion to keep you safe from harm
But hate will drive you onwards, hate will drive you upwards
Till you can get back all the bastards
Who ever tried to put you down

(New Model Army – ‘Ambition’ if you want to hear it)

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
4 years ago

@Petal

Nice concern trolling at the end there, by the way

Nice catch

@Joek
Yeah, stow it

pitshade
pitshade
4 years ago

Somethinv that I’ve seen attributed to JFK goes to the effect that: Everyone talks about burying the hatchet but no one forgets where they buried it. Google didn’t turn up anything just now.and I’m not aware of the context but the line always seemed meaningful to me. Forgiveness should only go to those who demonstrate that they are no longer going to be a threat and only for as long as they don’t fall back to their old ways. The past is never truly gone and forgiveness should never be a requirement or unconditional.

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

Thanks Alan, I’ll be sure to check it out. 😀

Imaginary Petal
Imaginary Petal
4 years ago

@joekster

My problem is that I seriously don’t know what “forgiving” entails. What exactly do you do when you “forgive” someone?

I looked up “forgive” in Merriam-Webster:

“to stop feeling anger toward (someone who has done something wrong) : to stop blaming (someone)”

Why should I, or anyone, ever stop feeling anger toward a sexual assaulter? And why would we ever stop blaming him for what he did? He will always have done the thing he did, so of course we’ll blame him for it.

I don’t see the point of doing any of these things. I don’t think I ever really “forgive” anyone.

I love my dad, and he’s been a great dad. However, I don’t forgive him for throwing a rage fit and threatening to leave the family because of my disobedience as a 4 year old. He did call me names. He did blame me for breaking up the family. He did say he was never coming back, and that it was my fault. These are things that I don’t forgive. I don’t bring it up with him, and I have a great relationship with my dad. He has never done anything like that again. But he did do it that one time. I do blame him for it. While I don’t actively feel anger toward him now, I do feel angry whenever I happen to think back to that moment.

I think it’s useful to remember what people are capable of, and not pretend as if actions can be undone. I don’t think guilt can ever be absolved. When you do something, whatever it is, you will always have done that thing. If you do something very bad, it’s likely that other people will always remember that thing and suffer from it. Why should you be let off the hook when your victims aren’t? A rapist will always be a rapist. He will never become not a rapist. Similarly, his victims will never become unraped.

I don’t know, I just think it’s a pointless concept. Forgiving doesn’t change anything. It seems to me that “forgiving”, to most people, simply means saying you’ve forgiven someone. It’s an empty word.

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