So Trump’s been caught on video bragging about grabbing unsuspecting women “by the p***y.”
Watch the video in this tweet and throw up in your mouth a little:
Women have the power to stop Trump.https://t.co/tTgeqy51PUhttps://t.co/VH3woeAf9Q pic.twitter.com/NjvbkPsjPR
— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) October 7, 2016
Yes, this is horrible Trump revelation number two billion and seven, but this one looks like this could be the straw that breaks the camel’s back, and Republicans are scrambling to condemn his comments and distance themselves from their nominee.
I don’t have much to add here but I think some of you probably do.
Re: Trump leaving the ticket
He would still be on the ballot, as rugbyyogi said, but in half of the states the electors are required by state law to vote for the winner of the popular vote. That would mean Trump if Trump is on the ballot and won the vote, not whomever the GOP tried to subrogate for Trump. In the other half of the states, they would probably vote for Trump if he won, because doing otherwise would basically destroy the electoral college. Americans tolerate the electoral college only because electors vote for the winner of the popular vote. If Trump won the popular vote somewhere and the electors cast their votes for Pence instead, the shit would hit the fan. Electors are generally party bigwigs who don’t want to lose their political influence, so they will vote according to the popular vote in all or almost all cases.
The actual GOP candidate would be a write-in. Write-ins never win. Removing Trump from the ticket would be to concede that Clinton is going to win.
@Ohlmann
The kisses are on the lips, no (visible) tongue. Even kissing people on the cheek or greeting with a hug is not common in the US between strangers. Kisses on the lips are reserved for lovers and partners except in circumstances of cultural variation.
posted without comment.
https://twitter.com/BryanDawsonUSA/status/784823118900580352
And from DeNiro: https://twitter.com/FreddyyMartinez/status/784793834119008256
@Podkayne Lives
I don’t. Bill Clinton is a rapist and serial sexual harasser. He’s total scum. He’s also not in or running for any public office right now, so aside from some musings about the privilege and rape culture that’ve prevented him facing any consequences for his actions, I don’t really see where it’s relevant.
@Moggie
This is my big problem with all this focus on Trump saying really crass things. The only difference between Trump and anyone else in the Republican field is that he he doesn’t bother with dogwhistles.
My parents and I don’t have any conversations about anything important, ever. That’s key to having a cordial relationship with someone who is kind of racist, so we instituted this policy long before Trump came along.
It’s really difficult, though, so I don’t recommend trying it unless you really need a cordial relationship with that individual. I don’t try to maintain friendships with racists, because I am only friends with nice people and racists are by definition not nice people. Most distant family? I don’t need them, so I don’t have to put up with them.
It makes me feel weird to say that my parents’ racism isn’t enough of a dealbreaker with them, but it isn’t. I recognize that this is my privilege talking, but they are my parents.
PoM : thanks. So it’s *really* creepy, and likely a judicial offense in France too.
(“likely” because I am not a lawyer, but I remember people having got in judicial trouble for things like that)
For my part, I find it harder to forgive family for open bigotry, because they are family. I can deal with a racist landlord or even a racist employer because my relation with them isn’t emotional. While my family don’t get a free pass ; why would I continue to talk to them if they are trying to drag me down with their hatred ?
Re: Family and Trump support.
It’s not for everyone but I posted the following on Pharyngula.
This certainly needs to be taken advantage with out letting it reduce efforts going forward. I’m thinking about how to best approach it on facebook with my family. I think I’ll start with a passive approach bluntly noting that we can now add sexual assault to Trump’s list of shitty human characteristics, and follow that up some general observations about how the set influences how he interacts with different kinds of and people in general. Then I’ll start in on some of the posts trying to draw moral equivalence in order to change the subject.
As despicable as this is at least it useful for looking at how people try to avoid politically inconvenient things that are objectively terrible to them. The fact that so many of Trump’s other statements, behaviors and beliefs are also objectively terrible matters, but in case the usefulness is in shoring up that bad reputation that was not an object to them until now.
@Brony
I considered something similar given one of my uncles is a weirdly strong supporter of Trump’s while most of my family – even the more conservative ones – think Trump is a terrible person. On the other hoof, it’s really annoying trying to do stuff like that.
@Fiona McCool
Someone who likes Trump and Yiannopolous is not a friend of any woman, ever. The best you can hope for is not a specific target yet.
@Kupo
To paraphrase Pratchett, Like many people with no actual morals, some Republicans do have standards.
*hugs*
@Scildfreja
Gentle *hugs* or other supportive gestures as desired.
@ JCfromNC
From the link:
Then you’re a damn fool, and seriously blinded by privilege. It is perfectly accurate to assume that anyone who votes Republican is human garbage. Trump is not an aberration, he is what the Republican party stands for and has since 1965. Standing with the Republican party is no different than standing with Trump personally.
No, they aren’t. They are seeking to destroy millions of lives and tens of millions of livelihoods (including their own), in order to better server their vile bigotry. There is no decency in them.
Congratulations, you’ve noticed the common thread among conservatives. I’m very proud of you. Now pull back a little bit, and notice that it’s not just fervent Trumpists, it’s the whole boiling of them.
Oooh, classism. Edgy of you. This is basically the only reason any Republicans have a problem with him, because he doesn’t limit himself to genteel bigotry. Being a tacky boor is the least of Trump’s flaws.
Once again, this idea that rampant cheating at business is somehow unique to Trump. Conservatism goes hand in hand with horrible business practices; the more flags and crosses a business displays, the less you should have to do with them.
FTFY
Gee, ya think? Members of the Party of Misogyny have issues with women? Amazing insight there, champ.
Meaningless noise. Literally meaningless: the phrase ‘real christian’ has no semantic content whatsoever.
And what else is new? This is the party that pushes theocracy every chance, in the teeth of endless lost court cases. Once again, this is categorically true of Republicans as a group, and has been for a couple of generations now.
Though while I am pretty much 100% his campaign is done and over with, I’m still livid that apparently bigotry is still okay within the US as a basis for policy based on how much anti constitutional bile he spew, and some Access Hollywood crap was caused everyone to jettison the hazardous waste. Part of me feels that a Ted Cruz type of person could possibly keep that bigotry boat afloat after this election season. Anyone who is more politically literate, could you tell me how much the GOP brand is damaged from this election, if at all?
@Michael Brew
It’s a delicate thing. When I know a fight is coming I do the more intense stuff on my wall in an impersonal way so if they want to get intense too they are on my social turf. I am among other things am faith but blunt and determined.
The criticism I do on their posts is of the “friendly and very inconveniant” kind. And I try to go at a slow enough pace that people can think about their reactions.
I do FB in bursts because it does take toll. It’s one I can manage anyway.
I’m letting the specifics of this burst boil in the back of my mind until tonight or tomorrow.
Guys Im from the UK, and we are shitting ourselves over here!
Im sure youre not, but please dont be complacent, please, please vote.
Time will tell, but my guess is that it’s just a slight acceleration of what we’ve been seeing anyway. Trump can be convincingly labeled “not a real Republican” for various reasons. He’s not going to hurt the GOP’s rep among non-whites very much, because that rep was already in the gutter. He isn’t doing the Republican rep with women any favors, but again the Republicans already had a shitty rep with all but very specific demographics of white middle-class married women anyway.
The only reason the GOP has such a solid hold on the House is gerrymandering, which is why I say VOTE IN THE DOWN-TICKET RACES BECAUSE THEY ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOU MAY THINK. Control of statehouses is critical, but too many voters focus with laser-like precision on the Presidential ticket and care nothing for anything else. Democrats screw themselves and everyone else when they think that voting for a local Republican for the statehouse is okay because of reasons. It’s not okay.
In general, though, Republicans are the party of old racist white people and demographic shifts put them in trouble before Trump decided he was a Republican now. Trump is losing some extra women, but the GOP was losing women anyway.
In the few months since Brexit we have seen a legitimisation of racism in my country, that is horrible to behold.
Imagine how that would play magnified many times over if he got in?
I cant even bring myself to name him at this point.
@Oogly
The Republicans lost 5 presidential elections in a row from 32-48. 1936 was won by over 500 electoral votes. If the Republicans can come back from that, they can come back from anything. The only way to know is to wait and see, I’m afraid
That said, the 1st chance to see is in the weeks after election day. Not whether he loses (he almost assuredly will) or by how much (important but not the story) watch for what the numbers show for women and white women in particular. -20 for the former and any loss at all outside the margin of error with the latter is cataclysmic for them. That’s something they might not actually be able to withstand
That should say “…fair but blunt…” in my previous comment.
@Brony
I wish you all the best with your facebook project! I’m one of ‘those people,’ as in one who doesn’t use facebook, twitter, etc.
But I have to provide tech support for my mom with her electronics and she shows me stuff on her facebook and has to scroll back and I see things the extended family post. I also have to curate her e-mail when my uncle signs her up for all these RW mailings. Or I have to print an attachment for her and see an inbox full of stuff from her church friends with “HITLARY” “OBUMMER” in the title line. We don’t talk politics. She says uncle and church friends are c[commentpolicy]. I’ve asked her to maybe think about her use of that word, but she thinks I am too.
I see enough to know that most of my extended family are people I wish I didn’t know at all. But I already knew that. Yet it still surprises me sometimes. But there are class issues there as well, so I always feel so conflicted.
It was my grandmother’s birthday party today and we had some definite uncomfortable moments. Almost everyone is anti-Trump. Except for uncle.
The worst was actually towards the end of the party when he and my grandmother were talking about how they felt it was “inappropriate” for Ellen Degeneres to be out. Apparently, my uncle is gracious enough to allow lesbians to exist. Just not publicly. Of course, me being me, I wasn’t about to keep my mouth shut and I said that if straight people in the public eye aren’t expected to keep the fact that they’re straight a secret, it’s hypocritical to expect gay people to do so. He and grandmother got all huffy and said they were allowed to have their opinion and I was allowed to have mine and they still love me anyway. I said that homophobia is wrong and I’m not going to pretend that I think it’s an acceptable opinion. It was all very awkward. I’m glad I stood my ground though.
What does give me some hope is that my cousin’s kids – the aforementioned uncle’s grandkids – took my side. They’re a 14 year old girl and 9 year old boy. And these kids live out in the country. They aren’t growing up in a progressive city like I did. Hopefully this a positive sign that things are improving with each generation.
@Brony
I tend to try leaving my more “controversial” opinions on my own wall, myself. Still hasn’t stopped my grandma from commenting IRL that my posts concerning atheism were somehow offensive, nevermind that I never said anything disparaging about other religions other than – obviously – implying they’re wrong. Which is weird because that side of the family isn’t especially religious.
Weir wood, as someone who was raised in the country, in the 80s/90s, with a dad who was a farmer and a mom who was a farmers daughter, I promise you that country people can be progressive. My parents taught me respect for all people. Even though my dad did struggle to understand gay people, he never said hateful things about them or even disrespectful things in the privacy of our home. He certainly didn’t teach us to hate anyone. It was his struggle to learn. And while there was not a lot of diversity in my community, I never thought people with different skin colors or sexual identities were any different from me. And I attribute that to my parents. Country living does not equate to being ignorant.
As for the general question here about family…well my brother, who is one of those Who thinks Trump is the lesser of two evils, is always looking to get into discussions on any number of topics. We use to get in loud arguing matches and we still would if it wasn’t me who learned to balance saying just enough to get him thinking but not so much that we both end up feeling alienated and drive a heated exchange. It is a tricky balance and you really got to know a person. I also learned when to stop the conversation or make a joke to distract. I love my brother but he most certainly struggles with accepting others. I am proud to say though that he’s made some progress and he sincerely is trying to be a better man. Sometimes it takes years or even decades before stuff sinks in and people change. Which is why I believe in relentlessly hammering away at this stuff. When I feel angry with someone though, I do try to remind myself that here at earth school, we have not all learned the same lessons and it’s my responsibility to talk to someone in the best way I can to teach them another way, I try to speak from that place but I am not always successful. I also try to remind myself that people don’t change their opinions over night but they do change them over time.
Lastly, I think this whole Trump thing was a good thing. As frustrating, angering and sad it’s made me, It brought to light how much systematic racism and sexism and hate is still part of our culture. So much of this stuff has been hidden and we are seeing how deep this stuff is rooted. And it’s only then, that we can truly fight it. I think this lastest bit is going to be good for us in having those discussions we need to have. I mean, I already see it with men who are starting to say, ‘hey, that is not how good men talk about or treat women”, were I think ten years ago a lot more guys would have been,” boys just being boys”.
I just want to make clear when I talk about talking to people in a way they can hear, I am talking about dealing with family and friends and others who are at least somewhat reasonable. Some people just are never going to get it and their bad karma will follow them around for 50 life times before they do. I am all for calling out the f*ckers who make hate speech though.
I also just want to say that there is an intelligent group of people here and have enjoyed reading many of your comments and learning new ways and points to make to talk about issues that I can use in other places to challenge ignorance.
Whether to stay in contact with someone with red flag political views is an issue a lot of people will have to face, the political climate across the US/Europe being what it is.
I have a right leaning friend who shares all sorts of ‘Muslim-peril’ type news items over facebook. Hard to imagine why a guy from New Zealand with Maori ancestry would be invested in European new-right nationalism. Could it be misguided, misinformed, searching for something to be angry about (?) Or an actual racist bigot? Of course I’d like to say it’s the former.
From the linked WP piece
“You can’t talk about women like that! They belong to their husbands and fathers! How dare you demean those men’s women in such a way.” Yup, there’s the Rodney I remember.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that rural people can’t be progressive. Just that small towns are generally less progressive and diverse than cities and people are often influenced by the culture around them. At least in the US, rural areas are not known for being hotbeds of progressivism.
Dalillama says:
Same here. The video might be bad news for Trump, but it’s a godsend for the rest of the GOP who can pretend that they’re pro-woman by throwing Trump under the bus. For instance, Pence claims to be offended by Trump’s comment, but that’s only because he knows you never grab pussies, you get proxies to force ultrasound probes up them.
Also, the Mormon Church’s newspaper, the Deseret News, have denounced Trump and called for him to drop out.
Yes, this is the very same Mormon Church which Brigham Young, not exactly a feminist, once ruled over. He was notorious for his practice of polygamy, having taken fifty-five wives by the time of his death.