Time for another book thread! I’ve got a little bit of an ulterior motive for this one. I’m looking for examples of your favorite or least favorite cult books — either fiction or non-fiction.
I’m not necessarily looking for books that have a small but devoted following (though those are fine) but also for those books that seemed to be everywhere at some point in time — the kind of books that friends pressed upon you, insisting you read them, telling you they had “changed their life.”
In one discussion of cult books over on Metafilter, a commenter described his list of suggestions as “what any self-respecting 80s stoner would have had on his bookshelf.” Replace 80s with any decade you’d prefer, and “stoner” with “nerd” or “punk” or whatever suits you better, and you get the idea.
Some examples of the sort of books I’m looking for:
- Siddhartha, by Hermann Hesse
- The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge, by Carlos Castaneda
- Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, by Robert M. Pirsig
- The Fountainhead, by Ayn Rand
Feel free to post examples that are far more obscure and/or recent. Or examples of books that “everybody read” at one point that have become obscure, or that people mainly remember as an embarrassment.
These can be books that you personally love, or books that you can’t understand why anyone loves.
oh! I forgot one, how could I? Noam Chomsky’s Manufacturing Consent. Though I bet you’ve already read that one. Very much about how mass media can, well. Manufacture the consent of the general population.
And there’s also Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. It’s an excellent exploration of why Europe came to dominate the world technologically and culturally, and more generally, why Eurasia came to dominate whereas the Americas, Australia and Africa did not. Given how often we talk about racists and “HBD proponents” around here, it’s vital reading.
Hardcore Zen by Brad Warner. A decidedly non-mysticical book about Zen Buddhism written by a pink rock bass player with lived in Japan and worked for a studio making kaiju TV shows.
Getting Things Done by David Allen. This can change your life if you’re always forgetting things or getting overwhelmed by projects.
Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson. A massive book that makes fictional encryption and data havens more entertaining than should be possible.
@ David F
”The Magus”
Are you familiar with ‘the Chris Carter Effect’ (as TVTropes calls it)?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChrisCarterEffect
I think The Magus is an early example of that. Don’t get me wrong. Whilst I’m actually reading the book I enjoy it (and I have read it a few times). However there’s the issue that each ‘answer’ just becomes another mystery, and eventually it’s just such a pile up of unresolved questions that it left me with a feeling of being unsatisfied by the ending.
I’m quite happy with ambiguity, and often times a narrative that doesn’t explain everything at the end can be very enjoyable; especially when it lets you ponder all the various interpretations and explanations. So I wasn’t insisting on a Scooby Doo style exposition.
However the thing with The Magus is that there aren’t enough clues to even allow that. It’s just one weird thing pulled out of a hat after another. In a way it almost feels ‘abandoned’ rather than finished.
I hope that makes some sense. I can expand if you’d like but that’s my overall gist. Like I say there are some really enjoyable individual scenes and sub plots. But I find the overall work unsatisfying (as opposed to unsatisfactory if you get the distinction)
“The Dice Man”
It’s that classic thing of a high concept but then perhaps explored just a little too far. I think it would have made a great novella or even short story but it just seems a bit long, like a TV episode that’s been padded out to movie length. There were some interesting potential consequences of Luke’s lifestyle to consider. Personally though I’d have preferred to consider those myself. I didn’t want it all spelling out. I was happy to be lead to the water as it were but I felt a bit resentful that I was then forced to drink the author’s preferred brand of mineral water.
In summary perhaps what I’m trying to say is I would have preferred “Here’s an interesting idea, imagine the possibilities” rather than “Here’s the idea and this is how it all pans out”
Hope that makes some sense?
@Axe, The Selfish Gene is from before the whole New Atheist phase, it was one of his first books, and his first big seller. It doesn’t actually talk about religion at all (I think there’s one little dig at the end of one chapter), but is focused pretty tightly on population genetics.
I’ll agree that the New Atheist books are all sorta cult classics. Letter to a Christian Nation is a great window into a lot of the alt-righty viewpoint, as Sam Harris is a paragon of saying horrible things with an air of aloof rationality. It’s also quite short. Debunking it is good brain exercise.
(I’ll note that I actually really like Harris’s book on ethics, The Moral Landscape, even though it was panned on all sides. As with all of his stuff it’s littered with bias born of arrogance. But, just like his other stuff, there are a few gems in there that no one else seems to say. That’s what makes him so dangerous, in my opinion – there are a few honestly excellent ideas in there, but they deliver an abhorrent payload)
Of all the “big” New Atheist authors, my favourite by far is Daniel Dennett – and I like him most for his non-atheist stuff. He’s a philosopher, and he’s got some absolutely brilliant thoughts in his head. For Brony, I’d recommend Inside Jokes: Using Humor to Reverse-Engineer the Mind, though I imagine he’s already read it.
Dunno if I’d call Dennett’s work cult classics, though. They should be, I think.
Ugh. So many people raved about this one, especially when I worked in a bookstore in the 90s.
I found it incoherent, racist and sexist. It felt like reading something written by snickering, immature youths who are reveling in how ‘naughty’ they are. SO EDGY!
The same bookstore loved The Golden Compass. Our copy fell apart so many people were reading it. It was billed as the first book of a trilogy, but The Subtle Knife did not come out for many years. Lyra was such an unusual protagonist and the reason why people loved the first book so much. I saw the later two books as a kind of betrayal to her character.
So I think some of that was hype over the delay and then, for the third volume, hope that the story would come around. I can see why people wouldn’t like the series, but I’ve given it a spot in my re-read about every 2 years or so rotation.
@Alan – I’ve had seagulls steal food out of zippered bags at the beach, raid my trash cans, and crap on my head while walking out of a matinee of Prince Caspian. Seagulls are not enlightened indigo beings capable of attaining a new plane of existence.
I will shamefacedly admit to going through a Richard Bach period in college (not the seagull one, his other books on flying and Leslie Parrish) but eventually I came to and realized he had serious commitment/intimacy/navel-gazing issues, and that “you make your own reality” is a form of woo that subtly shifts the blame back onto people who lack money, leisure, health, or power. My dislike only intensified when I read his youngest son’s memoir, about how Bach abandoned the family as soon as “Jonathan Livingston Seagull” hit it big so he could go follow his bliss in the skies. Bach’s wife was left raising six kids on her own, and ended up marrying an abusive tyrant out of financial desperation. It’s a sad read that illustrates how personal enlightenment can be a selfish pursuit and leave pain and destruction in its wake.
Anyway. I’ve decided that if I’m ever going to write a cult book, it’s mandatory that the words “Prophet” and “Road” appear somewhere in the title.
“Voltaire’s Bastards” by John Ralston Saul
“The Satanic Verses” by Salman Rushdie
Also, “Steppenwolf” > “Siddhartha”
I really recommend God: The Failed Hypothesis by Victor Stenger for a good book that makes the case for atheism without being douchey.
@ buttercup
Have you seen the Family Guy episode where Brian writes the self help book?
“Wish It, Want It, Do It”
I think it perfectly encapsulates that whole genre; even down to how Brian turns into a total dick as soon as the book has some success.
@ Nequam
And Robert Anton Wilson, most of whose work fits neatly into this category, with special mention of Reality is What You Can Get Away With, Cosmic Trigger and The New Inquisition (all of which I recommend, with reservations.
I’ll also mention Hakim Bey/Peter Lamborn Wilson, especially Temporary Autonomous Zone and Pirate Utopias
@Scildfreja
I assume from some things you’ve said that you’ve read it, but Susan Blackmore’s The Meme Machine is also very good.
@Dalillama, I haven’t, but I will! Turning memetics from an interesting idea into a science has always been something I’ve wanted to see, have just never had the time to pursue it. I’m looking forward to reading that!
I’m trying to read Kafka’s The Trial and The Castle, as they directly relate to the TV series The Prisoner. Lots of people still try to analyse The Prisoner, but I think McGoohan was very influenced by Kafka and the morality plays.
@Scildfreja
They would be if he were a open bigot, I imagine… 🙁
@eli
I’m gonna flash back to my 80’s high school days here. What were the kids reading? First, lots of true crime books like Helter Skelter. Those were everywhere, and it makes sense since we were all kids and most of us were some variety of Christian. (This is a 80’s high school in the Deep South-nearly everyone was evangelical Christian.)
And one I remember fondly and still own was a book that every nerd-leaning kid I knew in school read and loved. It was a painfully 80’s sci-fi comedy called Glory Lane by Alan Dean Foster. He also wrote the Spell-singing fantasy series, and we all read that too. To adult eyes, neither of these look all that great, but they were fun fluff for kids. A few years ago he was a guest at a local sci-fic con, and they had him listed as a writer of Star Wars books. Ouch.
Oh, Jonathan Livingson Seagull! That brings back memories; it was everywhere when I was in jr. high. I managed not to read it because I told everyone who offered to lend me their copy that I’d check it out from the library. I did try once, but library’s copies were all checked out and the wait list was two weeks long. I didn’t have a lot of persistence at the age of 13, so I forgot all about it.
What I *did* read was The Exorcist because I knew I’d never get to see the movie which came out when I was in eighth grade. I don’t know if that counts as a cult book, but there were three (very much contraband) copies floating around my school, which was a LCMS parochial school with a grand total of 107 students in three grades.
@ Virgin Mary
I love that book (obviously, lawyer thing) but I’d also recommend checking out the Orson Welles film version.
I’d always though there was something particularly brilliant about Anthony Perkin’s portrayal of K. Then I read an interview with him and he said he’d played K as someone who was actually guilty.
Somewhat off topic, I hope it’s ok. I’m not sure I have read anything that qualifies as “cult” fiction or non-fiction. But I suspect I need to look the term up.
@Dalillama
Adding Meme Machine to my list.
@Scildfreja
Anything reference or journal to suggest? I have a post on memes on my to-do list because of patterns I see in how the objectified components of memes seem to be structured and organized. I still need to familiarize myself with that area of research though.
@ Peaches
Those have been far and away his biggest financial success, and he’s huge with Star Wars fans; he created some of the best known characters in the Expanded Universe. For my money, though, the Humanx Commonwealth stuff was his best, and I love his short story collections With Friends Like These… and …Who Needs Enemies?. My copy of the first one has gone missing, which annoys me.
Another fan of The Westing Game here. I re-read it earlier this year.
Speaking of other cult favorite books from my adolescence … Judy Blume’s Forever. My younger sister adored that book, and I remember classmates passing it around in the locker room. (I found it a bit dull.)
I’ve just started reading Dante’s Divine Comedy (well, one English translation of it, at least), but I suppose you can’t really call a 700-year-old poem “Cult fiction.” =P
My personal “cultish” books:
– The Discworld series (Sam Vimes being the closest thing I had to a higher power while white-knuckling it through early recovery)
– Dune. Just the first book. I kinda liked books 2 and 3 and stick my fingers in my ears when 4+ come up.
– Shades of Grey, by Jasper Fforde (NOT the other shades-of-grey book you’re thinking of). It’s a bit hard to describe. The closest I can get is “a satirical absurdist dystopian narrative”. But I gotta admit, I’m probably in the minority with my love for it.
@Brony, nothing specific right now unfortunately. It’s not really a science yet. Its foundational text is a “what if?” chapter in The Selfish Gene, which was sort of a throwaway analogy, sort of brain-food more than anything that was deliberately pursued. It became a buzzword shortly after the whole rise of the New Atheists, at which point lots of work cropped up on the topic, but it’s a horrible mess of good and bad work. I’m gonna read Dalillama’s book on it, because it sounds like it’s in the right direction to me.
Honestly, I think there’s a big danger of studies of memetics as being too deeply entrenched in genetics and not deeply enough in psychology/neurology. The source of memetics as an idea is from genetics, sure, but it’s a metaphor at best. Can’t use the same tools in discussing them. A language for discussing the structure of a meme needs to be developed, for discussing the mechanisms by which memes do the meme-thing. At that point we can start talking about memetics as a real science, not before.
It’s an interesting time to look at the field!
@dalillama -oh, okay. I have never read anything in the Star Wars literary universe so I wasn’t sure why that was such a big deal. I don’t know much about the SW books, except there’s a lot of them and a lot of expanded stories/lore. This is where me being kind of a snob about spin-off books leads me to being ignorant.
Another cult book which was all the rage in junior high: Flowers In The Attic. Nobody could put it down. I remember being simultaneously riveted and grossed out.
@Alan
Reminds me of the self-help mantra from George Saunders’ short story Winky: “Now is the Time for Me to Win!” (along with “Who’s Crapping In Your Oatmeal?”)
So much emphasis on getting and winning. A lot of self-help seems to rely on scrambling upwards on the backs of other people (see: RedPill)
@peaches
I haven’t read any of them either, to tell the truth. But I know enough people who do to know that Foster is up there with Timothy Zahn (who’s probably the biggest name in the Star Wars literary universe, AFAIK).