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Confused MRAs charge conspiracy after Village Voice pans “agonizing” Red Pill documentary

This fictional character from The Office probably wouldn't like the film either
This fictional character probably wouldn’t like the film either

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The reviews are in! Well, technically speaking, a review is in.

The Village Voice’s Alan Scherstuhl has posted his review of Cassie Jaye’s The Red Pill, her totally objective documentary about the Men’s Rights Movement that was funded in part by some of the people featured in it and that will be opening in theaters a theater Friday

Let’s just say he didn’t like it:

[F]or two agonizing hours, Jaye tumbles slowly down America’s stupidest rabbit hole, discovering that Men’s Rights Activists are actually just dudes who have been dicked over by a culture that punishes masculinity. …

Jaye acknowledges in the opening and closing minutes that MRAs sometimes spew nasty garbage online, but she never presses them on this in her many interviews. Instead, she lets them moan about how hard it is to be a dude in 2016, endorsing their anecdotal complaints about unfair family courts, incidents of men being tricked into being fathers and — I didn’t quite follow this one — one father’s conviction that the women who had custody of his son were systematically trying to make the boy fat.

One can only assume that they are fattening him up before they EAT HIM.

Confused MRAs, apparently unable to understand how anyone could possibly hate a film they’re pretty sure they’re going to just love, have responded to Scherstuhl’s review by crying “conspiracy.”

In a comment on the Village Voice, MRA David King (presumably the same David King who is the “Chief Information Officer” for A Voice for Men) suggests that “[s]omething definitely stinks, and it’s not the film under review.”

He submits these, er, facts to a candid world:

• September 29, Cassie Jaye tweeted “Events surrounding The Red Pill documentary are getting curiouser and curiouser”, the same day Scherstuhl tweeted that he’d “agreed to review” TRP, the same day Scherstuhl invited a well-known anti-male MRA antagonist to DM him via Twitter.

Just FYI, the “well-known anti-male MRA antagonist” in question is apparently little old me, though I’m pretty sure I am not actually anti-male. I didn’t DM Scherstuhl, though I think I retweeted a couple of his Tweets. 

King continues:

• October 4, HP and Village Voice publish this hit piece using present-tense language (“this movie is playing in two American theaters”) strongly implying that the author has seen a film which doesn’t debut for another 3 days on October 7,

HOW ON EARTH DID A FILM REVIEWER SEE A FILM BEFORE IT WAS EVEN OUT oh wait that’s how film reviewing works.

• so Scherstuhl has not seen it at a theatre and cannot have seen it anywhere else unless either a) invited to by CJ (in which case HP and Village Voice, at which Scherstuhl is an editor, have violated the embargo such previews usually carry) or b) he has acquired a copy illegally.

Since both HP and VV have published this review already, since embargoes on unreleased films are the norm, and barring decent evidence of mismanagement on the part of CJ and her team, that rather heavily points at the latter. Whichever the case, violation of contract (best case) or breaking the law (worst case) doesn’t look good for either HP or Village Voice.

Yes, because films are NEVER reviewed before they hit theaters oh wait.

• If the author has not seen it, then he’s lying through his teeth both in the article’s content and about its provenance. He misrepresents the review as being based on an alleged viewing post public release but, owing to an editorial screw-up, the copy got released days before it should have been, proving that his article is a premeditated and contrived attack motivated by political animus.

• There are numerous tells in the language used in this article that strongly hint at an agenda and a prior conclusion (read: closed mind) so it almost doesn’t matter whether Scherstuhl did see it or not because the actual content of the film would make no difference to the content of the article.

King blathers on for a while along these lines, and even mentions me by name once! It’s good to be noticed.

Meanwhile, on Twitter, the lovable Dan Perrins seems to suggest that I might have actually paid Scherstuhl for his review.

Apparently Dan lives in an alternate universe in which men are oppressed and I am filthy rich.

Speaking of films, here is a short documentary about a capybara who jumps into a pool and plays with a pool noodle.

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Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

@Jack, I know, right? Need more of this:
comment image

@Megalibrarygirl, so dang true, right there. Adding the “just the ones who get up to mischief” is no improvement. Appending it to the “brown people” as if it were a sub-trait. Stealth racism, ugh. It’s the 1920s all over again.

@littleknown, I’m sure he won’t, either. As a tease for him, though, one of those links has some criticisms of the methodologies used to create the overall statistical view. If he can find it, he could perhaps make an actual reasonable counter-argument to the claims.

That’s how to do it in the real world, Roger. Examine evidence. Accept the outcome of that examination, tentatively, until new evidence arrives. When that happens, re-evaluate and adjust. That ain’t even the “science” way to do it, it’s the human way to do it.

EDIT, @Brony, i love your diagrams :3 for obvious reasons. Informative!

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

(Brony, I’d have a minor quibble with the diagram at the bottom, though; it talks about how the sense of smell is processed outside of the cerebral cortex. It doesn’t mention this with the other senses, though, making it seem like the sense of smell is unique in this regard. Lots of our sensory processing (preprocessing really) happens outside of the CC, so smell isn’t unique in that regard. It’s unique in lots of other ways, but for that one I’d argue that it isn’t! Just a minor quibble, though, it’s a very nice and informative diagram!)

Handsome "Punkle Stan" Jack

@Scildfreja Unnýðnes

I wouldn’t mind stuff like that, but I also wouldn’t mind some cool shaved style that don’t look too modern or out of place. Maybe, like, Vikings style…the show. And more afro-textured/natural hairstyles. I haven’t seen any hair mods that aren’t anything but straight. It’s sad.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

@Scildfreja
Thanks! It got pretty weird sometimes. I’m not even sure I remember exactly what this one was for.
http://i.imgur.com/gCK9cb7.jpg

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

Yeah, joking aside, Jack, there’s certainly a lack of variety. You’d think that they’d be happy to do shaved or short styles, those are easy to model. From looking at the Nexus, though, most mods are about making porn puppets and battle-lingerie-warriors. grumble grumble.

(Best mods are the ones that give you a hunger stat so that you have to eat, or give you a temperature stat so that you have to light fires and wear heavy clothes to stay warm in blizzards, or make roving warbands wander around so that there are actually battles between the Imperials and Stormcloaks. And the scenic ones obviously. Those are my favourites)

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

@Scildfreja
Quibble away. I’m sure there are places where I’m not quite accurate or in error in a minor way (I hope), and I’m a lot more careful about the knowledge that put in a form like that and is meant for public consumption. I made things for arguments too.

http://i.imgur.com/xcn9JDK.jpg

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

@Brony, I think you may be on to something. Perhaps next paper I publish, I will use ponies to demonstrate points. It’s a surefire strategy!

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

Rustling!

comment image

Or my favourite,

comment image

Handsome "Punkle Stan" Jack

Best mods are the ones that give you a hunger stat so that you have to eat, or give you a temperature stat so that you have to light fires and wear heavy clothes to stay warm in blizzards, or make roving warbands wander around so that there are actually battles between the Imperials and Stormcloaks. And the scenic ones obviously. Those are my favourites

Yes! I have some hunting mods, camping mods, alchemy mods, and cooking mods, plus interesting NPCs, new potion bottles, a whole bunch of armors and weapons, some stuff that adds in dummied-out content, and this really nice clothing mod that adds hundreds of clothing items that are just kinda remixes of game stuff so it matches nicely. And a mod that adds lady soldiers to Imperial patrols.

I’ve been trying to find jewelry mods for a while but they’re all delicate and overly intricate. Same with hair.

comment image

Can’t people make mods that match the actual game, for real? And make skin textures that don’t look greasy? At least the Sims doesn’t have that problem anymore. (So much Maxis Match for Sims 4, delicious.)

Catalpa
Catalpa
4 years ago

Me –
“I want to donate money to cure ALS”
We –
“Oh no! Why are you trying to cure ALS when cancer exists? You evil hypocrite”
[And on and on it goes, I’m gonna snip it here]

Your analogy would be more accurate if it went something like this:

Roger: I want to donate money to the KKK, so they can defend us against meteorites!

Mamotheers: What? Why would you support a clearly bigoted association in order to gain protection against something literally astronomically unlikely to happen, especially when there is no evidence that any of the KKK’s policies would do anything to prevent meteorites from falling to earth?

Roger: Are you saying that NO ONE has ever been killed by a meteorite or other space debris?

Mamotheers: No, but but the chances of it happening are incredibly small, and there are dozens of way larger threats to life that could be lessened in ways that DON’T involve giving money to the KKK.

Roger: Well the numbers might be tiny NOW but we’ve been sending lots of satellites into space; they’re all going to come crashing down someday!

Mamotheers: That’s not how… Look, how will the KKK even stop this from happening?

Roger: Well obviously the KKK are going to build missiles so they can blow up the meteorites before they hit earth.

Mamotheers: So your solution to an infintesimally small risk is to give violent bigots weapons that can be used to kill hundreds of people at once?

Roger: They’re obviously not going to use the missiles to kill PEOPLE. Well, not ordinary people, anyway.

Mamotheers: …Yeah, this is why we tend to just mock you with GIFs.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

I really have to go back into the Nexus and dig into the mods that are there. I really want more diversity in clothes and shoes and stuff; more visual diversity is awesome.

(I am also a super-roleplaying-nerd and will do things like, on arriving in a city, go to an inn and change from armour to clothes, just to fit in better. I wish they would react to that sort of thing! C’mon Bethesda, this is supposed to be all GOAP’ey and stuff, fancy AI and all that, come on now!)

I will take your advice next time I go in!

Handsome "Punkle Stan" Jack

I am also a super-roleplaying-nerd and will do things like, on arriving in a city, go to an inn and change from armour to clothes, just to fit in better. I wish they would react to that sort of thing! C’mon Bethesda, this is supposed to be all GOAP’ey and stuff, fancy AI and all that, come on now!

I actually have a commerce mod that has a part that you can adjust prices and services based on what you’re wearing (plus a bunch of other things)! I think it’s called Trade and Barter.

My mods are only to expand on what the game offers, or tweak things here and there for more realism. (Like this animation mod I got so your character performs opening doors, picking ingredients, looting, etc.) I don’t do Adidas shoes mods or whatever so I think we’re on the same page here.

Ooglyboggles
4 years ago

It’s guys like Roger that make me feel bad for playing Lawful Evil characters or liking the Overlord/Dungeon Keeper series. I do it because I like playing the cartoon villains or want to see how much of a moral code I can get away with while still being not Darth Vader, not as some excuse to drink the blood of virgins or find some fantastical reason for genocide.

Handsome "Punkle Stan" Jack

It’s guys like Roger that make me feel bad for playing Lawful Evil characters or liking the Overlord/Dungeon Keeper series.

I don’t.

http://i.imgur.com/nF19SzB.gif

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
4 years ago

@Oogly

At least I’m glad it wasn’t that self indulgent

Nonsense. Your self indulgence is what makes the poetry good 😀

@Catalpa
Perfect!

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

Other than the people that kept me coming back there were a couple of things that I miss from the general image board format. One was the language involving pictures. A habit that can form on an image board is posting a picture with every single post to provide emotional subtext. That really gets addicting and I think that I went through something I want to compare to withdrawal when I posted in places where that would have been weird exclusively. I started out as a Pinkie poster, went to Twilight, and then used Discord until I left.

Another one was watching memes evolve. Have any of you ever watched a meme evolve? From when the things everyone gets amused by appears…comment image

…and then everyone disassembles it into pieces and swaps parts with other parts of the things the community likes…comment image

…and then it just blows up and society does what it does.comment imagecomment image

@Scildfreja
http://i.imgur.com/BJhTUf6.gifv
http://i.imgur.com/tC5INVE.gifv

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

@Scildfreja

I’d have a minor quibble with the diagram at the bottom, though; it talks about how the sense of smell is processed outside of the cerebral cortex. It doesn’t mention this with the other senses, though, making it seem like the sense of smell is unique in this regard. Lots of our sensory processing (preprocessing really) happens outside of the CC, so smell isn’t unique in that regard. It’s unique in lots of other ways, but for that one I’d argue that it isn’t! Just a minor quibble, though, it’s a very nice and informative diagram!

I had to think about this one for a while. For some reason the chemical senses like smell and taste were more difficult for me to wrap my brain around, and that was the impression I had a the time. It still seems to me that the chemical senses process in some unique ways as far as the basic logic seems to work compared to hearing, touch and vision. For example I seem to remember their primary cortex regions are not as straightforward.

But the anatomy gets even more difficult to figure out than the rest of the brain on average in that area so maybe it’s still similar patterns scrunched together.

What did you have in mind?

Ooglyboggles
4 years ago

@Handsome “Punkle Stan” Jack

Well if you don’t feel bad, why should I?

Nothing wrong with evil when it’s this cute.
http://nisamerica.com/games/mylord/wp/data/wp5.jpg
comment image

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Overlord.jpg
At first seeming to be an uncaring ruler, upon closer inspection takes proper care to make sure all of his minions are clearly visible for the group shot. A lesser Overlord probably would get the camera angle wrong or not practice proper hygiene nor encourage his minions to do the same.

http://www.ealasaid.com/fan/vetinari/images/vetport.jpg

“Every evil tyrant has a plan to rule the world. The good people don’t seem to have the knack.”
– Havelock Vetinari, Discworld

Plus Paradise Lost would be so dull without Satan as the lead.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
4 years ago

(Like this animation mod I got so your character performs opening doors, picking ingredients, looting, etc.)

Ohmigosh I love that one. Super immersion time go!

A habit that can form on an image board is posting a picture with every single post to provide emotional subtext.

http://pinkie.mylittlefacewhen.com/media/f/rsz/mlfw4974_huge.png

watching memes evolve.

I have! It’s wonderful and fascinating. (Aside, I am actually sort of grumpy about how “meme” has become “funny picture”, when its original meaning was do deliciously nuanced and useful. Oh well, I unfortunately am not the language police)

What did you have in mind?

I’m on my tablet so likely won’t be too verbose here. It’s been shown that a lot of the processing that we figured happened in the brain is actually happening in more distant nerves. Lots of visual processing happens in the retinas themselves, for example. To my memory, the same thing’s happening with all of the senses. So, again, it’s a picky little detail that in no way changes your overall message! But you seem to like that sort of attention to detail, so I figured it’d be a worthwhile observation for you.

Handsome "Punkle Stan" Jack

@Ooglyboggles

Isn’t the Overlord technically the lesser evil in the games, anyway? Unless you pick Velvet over Rose because goth chicks are obviously much more evil and then you’re the only slightly lesser evil?

Also, I am NOT the person you should be judging your moral compass with, believe you me.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

A habit that can form on an image board is posting a picture with every single post to provide emotional subtext.

Oops. That was a little descriptive of what regularly happens around here. In my head I wanted to convey something about degree and how often. Some of us exclusively communicated that way and there is something really useful and addictive about mixing modes of communication like that. Something synergistically comes out of it. There were people who I would argue conversed in poetry.

Aside, I am actually sort of grumpy about how “meme” has become “funny picture”, when its original meaning was do deliciously nuanced and useful. Oh well, I unfortunately am not the language police.

Something inside me wants to yell “it’s iconography!”

/awake

Diptych
Diptych
4 years ago

Ahhh, Dungeon Keeper. That’s my childhood, right there. When we first got the internet, I was terribly excited ’cause it meant I could look up Dungeon Keeper fansites. Still can’t get past mission 11 of War for the Overworld, though.

Speaking of mods… I got sick of Skyrim pretty quickly, but I’ve done a lot of modding for Fallouts 4 and NV. The difference between the two fanbases is pretty apparently. I mean, they both have well-thought-out bugfixes, gameplay tweaks and immersion boosters, and they both have mods to turn the games’ entirely female population into hentai problems… but one has a lot more of one and the other has a lot more of the other, y’know?

(Actually, one of my favourite FO4 mods was the one that let you sew everything-proof ballistic weave into all clothes, not just a small selection, so that my companions and I can be stylish -and- bulletproof, 24/7!)

Ooglyboggles
4 years ago

@Handsome
Great, now you made me realize that Overlord was a parable of how thinking you’re inherently more moral by being the “Hero” can easily lead you down a very bad path self indulgent corruption. And the main villain is an absentee father who got possessed by your predecessor and made everyone corrupt, and you stop him with the help of his daughters who don’t like him much.

Oh god the Overlord games are insidious anti male propaganda pieces calling about against people who would leave their comrade for dead and loot the Second Overlord’s stuff like common thieves. Even the main player’s powers are a critique of the Chosen One, by making it so that your power comes from the minions, not from you yourself. And your mistresses pretty much run your base and in many cases are better at being an administrator type leader than you. Even worse, they don’t get convinced by your charms, they chose to help run your Evil Base and worse, like being in power and are good at it.

Rhianna Pratchett, the writer of Overlord, Overlord 2, Overlord: Dark Legend and Overlord: Minions has stated that Rose is akin to an evil Mary Poppins.[1]

One of my favorite games, its writing being part of the reason I was charmed, was written by a woman. How could I have not known with such a blatant satire of toxic masculinity.

Kahn is one of the Seven Heroes that killed the second Overlord. The Wizard nurtures Kahn’s insecurities, especially his relationship with Jewel, and causes him to develop uncontrollable anger issues and quarrels if unhappy. Kahn does not return to his homeland but hides with Jewel in the Ruborian Desert to assist her with his beholders and marauders.

You could swap that with practically any form of MRA and it wouldn’t change much in context.

I am genuinely shocked.

Seven of Mine
Seven of Mine
4 years ago

@ Roger

Anyway – If person A says “let’s introduce this new device which will make planes safer” is a good response to this “why are you trying to do this when a device for cars would save more people?”

You left out the part where person A only believes the device will make planes safer because they refuse to acknowledge a vast body of research which proves they’ve a) grossly overestimated the danger posed by planes and b) the device doesn’t work as advertised.

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

I’m going to leave this here too, because I’m just tired of dealing with the willingly ignorant.

Handsome "Punkle Stan" Jack

Great, now you made me realize that Overlord was a parable of how thinking you’re inherently more moral by being the “Hero” can easily lead you down a very bad path self indulgent corruption.

comment image

The bosses were inspired by the seven deadly sins, too, in case you missed that.

Roger
Roger
4 years ago

@Scildfreja Unnýðnes

Well it seems like the immigration policy is working then. What I take from that is that controlled immigration is a good idea – it doesn’t say to me that more control would be a *bad* idea.

As evidence, we can look at some uncontrolled immigration, and see how it compares.

Foreigners 12 per cent of the total population of Germany – 29% of murders 20% of sexual assault.

Illegal immigrants and asylum seekers 2.5 per cent of population – 8% of murders 4% of sexual assault.

So, not so good.

Just out of a matter of interest, what evidence would make you change your mind on this matter?

Also – I have a gotcha. The absolute number of black people killed by police is tiny. So BLM is making the same intellectual mistake as me?

Imaginary Petal
Imaginary Petal
4 years ago

@Nazi Roger

Absolute bullshit. Immigrants in Germany are less likely to commit crimes as compared to the general population.

According to the Bundeskriminalamt, also known as the Federal Criminal Police Office or BKA, crimes by immigrants rose 79 percent in 2015.

But at the same time, the number of refugees in the country rose more than fivefold — by 440 percent.

In other words, the typical German was more likely to engage in crime than the average migrant.

Not only that, the BKA found that the increase was in the first half of 2015. The rate then leveled off during the second half of the year, the period with the greatest influx of refugees, according to the German broadcaster Deutsche Welle.

The crimes that immigrants do commit are overwhelmingly minor crimes.

According to Die Welt (The World), a national German newspaper, most of the crimes committed by refugees are related to theft or trying to ride on public transport without tickets. Fewer than 1 percent, or less than 1,000, are sex crimes, in spite of social media rumors.

Much of the increase in crime rates is due to racists attacking immigrants, because of fear mongering like yours.

It should also be noted that some of the additional crime has consisted of attacks on migrants and migrant camps. By the end of October, the number of attacks against shelters for asylum seekers had tripled compared to the count for all of 2014.

Reports show no correlation between migrant status and crime rates.

The 2016 report specifically mentions the refugee problem: “While the 2014 statistics (the latest available) for Germany are of interest, they fail to capture any effect that the approximately 1 million refugees and asylum seekers who arrived in country in 2015 may have had on crime.” […] the data suggest that the refugees tend to be better-behaved than the typical German.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/11/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-germany-now-riddled-crime-thanks/

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

Just out of a matter of interest, what evidence would make you change your mind on this matter?

You were asked that question first, and you never answered it. How about you answer it first?

Also – I have a gotcha. The absolute number of black people killed by police is tiny. So BLM is making the same intellectual mistake as me?

You stupid, stupid dipshit. BLM’s proposed solution to police violence is not to ban the fucking police.

For someone who talks about epistemology all the time, you seem bizarrely unfamiliar with its sister discipline, formal logic. Why is that? I’m starting to conclude that you encountered a word you liked at the University of Wikipedia and started throwing it out all the time to make yourself seem educated!

Roger
Roger
4 years ago

“Interior Minsiter Thomas de Maizière responded to the news by saying: “The current trend shows that refugees are just as unlikely to commit crimes as comparable groups among the current population. The majority of them don’t commit crimes, they are seeking protection and and peace in Germany.””

So what that means is that Germans of similar gender, education and socio-economic class commit crimes at the same rate as these immigrants.
But that the immigrants are of lower education, gender and socio-economic class, so the actual rate of crime is far higher than for the average German.
So, why not have a policy like in the US where we make sure we get more women, more educated people, and people with money?

Re: BLM – I wasn’t being solely criticised for my solutions, I was also being criticised for having an unrealistic view of the scale of the problem.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 years ago

Re: BLM – I wasn’t being solely criticised for my solutions, I was also being criticised for having an unrealistic view of the scale of the problem.

Do point out to me where someone has said that it’s actually okay when an immigrant commits murder.

You’re being criticized because your proposed solution is deeply bigoted. I am furthermore criticizing you because you are far more likely to be a rapist than any immigrant is to be a murderer, and yet you keep blowing past the far higher threat you pose than any immigrant poses. You seem to think that everyone else needs to just chill and live with the threat of you, whereas we all need to scramble to soothe your far less rational fears. You think very highly of yourself, but I think you have the mind of a self-centered little brat, which makes your potential for rape even more likely.

Croquembouche of patriarchy
Croquembouche of patriarchy
4 years ago

@ Roger,

“refugees are just as unlikely to commit crimes as comparable groups among the current population. The majority of them don’t commit crimes, they are seeking protection and and peace in Germany.””

So what that means is that Germans of similar gender, education and socio-economic class commit crimes at the same rate as these immigrants.
But that the immigrants are of lower education, gender and socio-economic class, so the actual rate of crime is far higher than for the average German.

1. Please show evidence that immigrants are of lower education, gender and economic class than the average German. For bonus points, please explicate which is the lower gender.

2: Please also show evidence that crime rates among native born Germans are higher among those of lower education, gender and socio-economic class. Is this another one of those things you just feel?

Croquembouche of patriarchy
Croquembouche of patriarchy
4 years ago

Also, Roger, I’d like to see some statistics from you comparing the number of killings in the US of POC by police with the number of killings by Islamic terrorists. Both pale, as has been noted by others, in comparison with car accident deaths. It is possible to care about all three, but only one seems to bother you.

Seven of Mine
Seven of Mine
4 years ago

@ Roger

So what that means is that Germans of similar gender, education and socio-economic class commit crimes at the same rate as these immigrants.
But that the immigrants are of lower education, gender and socio-economic class, so the actual rate of crime is far higher than for the average German.

1) The passage you quoted made no mention of the particular criteria they used to define “comparable groups”.
2) The passage you quoted made no mention of the relative socio-economic status of immigrants vs. people born in Germany or of people of either group who commit crimes vs. those who don’t.
3) You are literally making shit up out of whole cloth and then citing it as evidence for your position.

Megalibrarygirl
Megalibrarygirl
4 years ago

@Roger

Your “gotcha” with BLM is dishonest. Yes, more whites are killed, but there are more white people than black people in the US. When you properly read the stats, adjusting for population size and don’t dishonestly use raw data, black people are killed at appallingly high rates.

Further, BLM is against ALL police brutality, even police killings of white folk. I’m amazed people don’t get that. Further, even if they were only caring about the black killings, it’s still a laudable cause to stop police from killing POC. If the so called all lives matter people really cared, they’d be out protesting too with BLM. But they don’t: it’s just white people feeling left out of the party.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

Is Roger still making me and the people I care about less safe by focusing on groups of people instead of behavior causing problems?

Since they expressed an interest in RooshV I wonder if Roger is also one of the people who tries to put all of the responsability for preventing rape on victims. It’s amazing how many little mechanisms society has for drawing attention away from the people who actually do terrible things. I’m increasingly interested in what such terrible people do in their groups to push the attention away and why it works.

Following Rogers path we don’t do anything to deal with the predators in our groups (they just can’t be bothered to learn) and more rapes and other terrible things occur. That would also farthur embed scapegoating as a social value, treat harming innocent people as a good, and reasonably pissed off the family and friends of stereotyped people (who are also the targets of bigots).

Our way deals with all of that including those people that would immigrate over and who do terrible things. If the social dynamic were set up to identify rapists, murderers, and terrorists in an unbiased manner those new people would face the system needed to properly deal with them. The only system that can.

I’ll not “just try out” neglecting the predators in out midst so that Roger can preserve that brown/muslim-bad people connection that society installed and that he works so hard to maintain.

Roger
Roger
4 years ago

http://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Broschueren/2016/pks-2015.pdf

P. 70

percentage of “crimes against life” committed by non-Germans 29.3%
percentage committed by refugees/assylum seekers 8.2%

percentage of sexual offences committed by non-Germans 20%
percentage committed by refugees/assylym seekers 4.8%

So if the foreign population of Germany is around 15%
and the refugee/assyllum seeker population is around 3%

They are massively over represented in terms of the rate at which they commit these serious crimes – the most generous explanation for the statement that “compatible groups of German’s commit crime at the same rate” is the interpretation I gave above. Otherwise it’s just a flat out lie.

Who checks the fact checkers, eh?

@MegaLibrarygirl

I’m not saying anything about the number of white people killed – I’m saying that the total number of black people killed by police is dwarfed by many other things, like (for example) the number murdered by non-police.
Now personally, I think it is right to get upset about police killing people. But, I’m not sure how you would square the circle of saying that it is foolish to worry about immigrant crime because it is such a small amount, but sensible to worry about deaths at the hands of police… which is in absolute terms a small amount.

@Brony –
Dude – you’re the one putting the onus on people to be able to spot who is a serial killer/criminal – I’m the one saying we should use whichever knowledge we have to reduce the risk of them getting us.

Also, I find it a bit of a privilege talk – you say things like “oh don’t worry about the immigrants coming over because white people aren’t killed by non-white people so much”… well what about Americans who aren’t white? Should we have them have a higher danger?
Sorry if I’m wrong, but it sounds like a privilege to me.

Other than that, what you are saying seems laudable. Keep up that good work – but in the short term I can’t see any evidence that immigration control is going to make your job harder.

Roger
Roger
4 years ago

I think the problem with this discussion is that people are throwing up to me any arguments that they *think* are devastating towards my true, hidden beliefs.
But, I was serious when I said “I’m not a racist, and I’m not a sexist.”

So, “don’t let men in”, or “white people are criminals too” really doesn’t address my point. I agree with that stuff.

No, I’m not saying I want to have immigration restrictions because I don’t like different races. I don’t care about race. I say have immigration restrictions because it is apparently working – US has tight immigration and the immigrants don’t commit as many crimes. Germany has lax immigration and immigrants commit more crimes.

Why wouldn’t tighter still be even better?

Anyway, sorry. I think I’ll leave this discussion for now – I just spent an hour looking through obscure German crime statistics, just to show that factcheck.com can’t be trusted. I sadly don’t have time for this.

But thanks for the discussion – if it is any consolation I don’t really feel like supporting Trump anymore, though I still think there might be something to tighter immigration policies.

OoglyBoggles
OoglyBoggles
4 years ago

@Roger
Did you even read any of Scildfreja’s articles showing your statements to be a bunch of crap? Or any of PI’s literally over 100 shitty things Trump said?

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

Is anybody still interested in banging their heads against the world’s most boring brick wall, or can I email David?

You know the rules, Mark, be entertaining or be banned.

OoglyBoggles
OoglyBoggles
4 years ago

Instances of assaults, robberies and “predatory extortion,” a classification that includes threatening behavior, doubled over 2015. Smaller offenses, such as theft (mostly shoplifting), forging paperwork to get money and riding on public transport without paying the fare, nearly doubled.

According to Die Welt (The World), a national German newspaper, most of the crimes committed by refugees are related to theft or trying to ride on public transport without tickets. Fewer than 1 percent, or less than 1,000, are sex crimes, in spite of social media rumors.

However, concern over sex crimes peaked New Year’s Eve amid widespread reports of groups of drunken North African migrants — Libya, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco — sexually assaulting hundreds of women in Cologne and other cities.

Those reports dovetailed with a 2014 study that found 40 percent of refugees from that region had gotten into legal trouble within 12 months of their arrival versus 0.5 percent of Syrians. A later analysis also revealed that migrants from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan were much less likely to be charged with a crime than migrants from other regions such as the Western Balkans, demonstrating that you can’t lump all migrants together.

Groups concerned about the influx of migrants believe that the government may not be giving the full story.

The reports that migrants are generating less crime than other Germans have been met with some criticism. Data from a few states were not included, for example, and the New Year’s Eve sexual assaults didn’t make it into the latest report.

It should also be noted that some of the additional crime has consisted of attacks on migrants and migrant camps. By the end of October, the number of attacks against shelters for asylum seekers had tripled compared to the count for all of 2014.

When we compared the U.S. State Department’s annual reports on German crime and safety from 2014 to 2016, we found that the low-to-medium risk in 2014 had, by the 2015 report, risen to a medium rating for most cities.

The 2016 report specifically mentions the refugee problem: “While the 2014 statistics (the latest available) for Germany are of interest, they fail to capture any effect that the approximately 1 million refugees and asylum seekers who arrived in country in 2015 may have had on crime.”

It quotes some alarming statistics from the first quarter of 2015, but, as we’ve noted, the German government has released more up-to-date information that shows the initial refugee crime leveled off in the latter half of 2015.

The crime and safety report also says, “A number of ranking police officers have questioned the accuracy of the statistics being provided, specifically related to crimes taking place within refugee camps or being committed by refugees.”

But overall, “To our knowledge, there have been no large-scale empirical studies that have shown a connection between large-scale immigration and spikes in crime. In fact many studies show the opposite,” said Natalia Banulescu-Bogdan, assistant director of the international program at the Migration Policy Institute and a fellow at MPI Europe in Brussels.

It’s called reading, you should try it some time you fucking nazi rape enabling pile of soggy bread.

Roger
Roger
4 years ago

@ooglyboogles

“After controlling for a host of demographic and economic characteristics, we find that immigration does not increase crime rates, and some aspects of immigration lessen crime in metropolitan areas.”

Yeah – so as I said. They’ve got a load of poor immigrants to come in who commit crime at around the same rate as poor Americans (and since most Americans aren’t poor at a higher rate than Americans in general) and they they say – “hey look, once we control for all the factors that make people more likely to commit crime, they are no different to Americans! Amazing!”

Well, I think it’s stupid. The argument only has any meaning if your aim is to show that immigrants aren’t inherently worse than Americans – (that is that young poor immigrants are equivalent to young, poor Americans.) I’m saying that we should be getting people who are less likely to commit crime *before* controlling for the factors that make you more likely to commit crime.

More old woman, professional rich immigration please.

weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo

I see Rogark is still ignoring the point that BLM is not suggesting that police be banned or that all cops be treated as murderers. Merely that police who do murder should be held accountable. Whereas no one is suggesting that immigrants who kill shouldn’t be punished, we’re saying that immigrants aren’t inherently murderous.

So why the comparison again?

Roger is the most willfully obtuse troll we’ve had in months.

Roger
Roger
4 years ago

@ogglyboggles –
I read it, then I looked at the statistics provided by the German government and I found that the immigrants are committing crime at a higher rate than the Germans.

What do you think about that?

First of all it’s you don’t listen to statistics, then as soon as I get into the statistics, it’s personal abuse.

(BTW – that “fewer than 1/1000 of the crimes are rape” is just completely stupid. Why are we comparing the number of rapes to the number of parking tickets?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ scildfreja

It’s been shown that a lot of the processing that we figured happened in the brain is actually happening in more distant nerves

The ‘flinch’ reflex (like when we touch something hot) appears to take place purely in the spinal column; the brain doesn’t get involved at all.

(Although I guess that’s why it’s called a reflex)

Roger
Roger
4 years ago

I’m not saying that immigrants are inherently murderous – I’m saying that there are some groups that are more likely to be criminal and that we should use that information when making immigration decisions.

weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo

Shorter Rogark. “I’m not being racist. I’m being classist. Gee whiz! I don’t have time to back up the stupid argument I started!”

I think Rogark should be required to stay on topic or he’s banned. What does immigration have to do with the Red Pill documentary?

Croquembouche of patriarchy
Croquembouche of patriarchy
4 years ago

Roger continues to not provide any evidence for Roger’s assertion that “poor people” commit crime at a greater rate than people who aren’t poor.
Now Roger has specifically said “poor Americans”. Come on Roger, spend a few more hours looking through your own nation’s databases.
Stats, or it didn’t happen.

OoglyBoggles
OoglyBoggles
4 years ago

@Roger
Oh it’s now the fucking poor people ruining the germanic purity.

Not to mention the fact that everyone else’s citations have shown that you’re interpretation of the studies was plain incorrect.

Again you haven’t responded to those articles with direct contraditions to the evidence provided.

maistrechat
4 years ago

I’m saying that there are some groups that are more likely to be criminal

And you keep repeating that claim despite being shown mountains of evidence that it’s not immigrants that we should be worried about.