As longtime observers of the manosphere know all too well, it’s not always easy to draw a clear line between “pickup artistry” and “raping drunk women.”
That line seems to have been completely nonexistent when it came to the trio of pickup artists profiled in a long and horrifying Daily Beast piece by Brandy Zadrozny, with the self-explanatory title “Pickup Artists Preyed on Drunk Women, Brought Them Home, and Raped Them.”
The pickup artists in question apparently specialized in the highly Rooshian strategy of “hanging around outside of bars at closing time in hopes of meeting really, really drunk women.”
Here’s how Zadrozny describes the “pickup” that got the trio arrested:
When the bars closed for the night, Claire and Laura [not their real names] shuffled out with the rest of the crowd onto Fifth Avenue. They called an Uber, and as they waited, they were approached by two men, Jonas Dick and Alex Smith.
Jonas and Alex were no strangers to meeting girls on that street at that time: they referred to two in the morning as “pull o’clock” because of how easy it was to bring home the last women leaving the bars. They invited Claire and Laura to their place for drinks. It was only a few blocks away.
Renting an apartment only a couple of blocks from the bars, also a very Rooshian technique.
Claire says she doesn’t remember meeting Alex and Jonas. She remembers stumbling and someone with a receding hairline “pushing her along,” leading her to an apartment building. She remembers being in a semi-furnished bedroom on a mattress without a headboard. Someone giving her a clear drink. The sip she took didn’t taste like water, maybe it was alcohol? Before she could think about it, she was falling backwards, and that’s when she says it all goes black.
What occurred in that bedroom over the next hour runs in and out of Claire’s mind like waves. As she testified in court, she can feel the bed beneath her, coming to for a moment, and vomiting on the floor. She hears one—or is it two?—male voices, mumbling like the adults in “Charlie Brown” before it all fades away again.
It gets worse.
If you’re not up for reading a really long story full of graphic details of rape at the moment, Robyn Pennacchia at Wonkette provides a condensed, if also pretty graphic, version of the story here.
@Axecalibur
Ahh. Apologies. Yes, it’s true that parents can be immensely horrible people, same as the rest of the population.
And I completely believe that your mother could beat the shit out of you, me, and everybody else.
Still. Autocorrect is the plague of many, and I thought it seemed a bit odd.
re: Kettle: Well, I do not understand this person very much. But I don’t understand a lot of people. Plus, someone had to get in on the action and this was my first time on vs. troll.
That sounds like a TV show of some kind.
@Kettle
Six thousand years of patriarchy and we haven’t snapped yet.
Most of us aren’t likely to go Clint Eastwood on others. Instead, we march, rally, make phone calls, organize committees, write letters, make banners, write books, talk to our friends, and so on.
Most of us prefer this approach. It means that the changes we make are real changes, involving hearts and minds, not just a shift in power.
My grandma taught me to snap string beans. Does that count?
@Michael Lindsay
Inorite!?
From the article:
Poor little lost Christian lamb from a ‘good,’ ‘hard-working’ family with values. He played varsity sports y’all! Those beautiful girls and beaches are so overwhelming.
It might be a typo, but it works for many of the statements of the parents of these rapists.
*shudder*
Edit: note to self: reload before reply
I know a few people who moved to California. They were not, to my knowledge transformed into rapists.
I’m gonna just comment on this part:
“He was overwhelmed with the pretty girls, beautiful beaches, outstanding weather, and all that is associated with California,”
Okay, no. That’s 10,000% bullshit. If anyone bothers to investigate the background of non-local rapists, then quite often one finds that they had a double life back wherever they originally lived that their family didn’t know about. And they were shitstains back then too. I can’t say if that it’s true in this case, but it was true about Brock Turner, to give a recent example.
Even if they did somehow dramatically change personalities due to a mere change of scenery or exposure to a moderately different culture – which is unlikely in the extreme – then that’s not an excuse for anything except maybe locking them up in a psych ward. I mean, it’s a serious problem if your base personality is capable of being overwritten with an evil one just because the weather’s nicer.
@Snowberry
I, uh….I don’t think that flies with the comments policy. Can I get a read on this? Ladies? Gents? Esteemed individuals of neither title?
Oops, I apologize. I wasn’t thinking that violated the comments policy because I wasn’t actually diagnosing anyone in particular, just implying that someone who wasn’t inherently a rapist could become one with just a change of scenery shouldn’t be allowed to freely walk the streets. Throwing them in jail seems worse, though, if it was a genuine psychological problem.
@Snowberry
I’m the newbie here, so I’m not sure, but it sounded awfully suspect. Plus, “psych ward” is kinda stigmatizing last I checked.
Plus, I really want to type things tonight for some reason.
Okay, I looked it up. Apparently the term I should have used was “psychiatric hospital”. Again, I apologize.
@Snowberry
Not a problem. It’s just kind of an itchy spot to me since several of my close friends have been in them for various periods of time.
They took the plea deals because the San Diego DA’s office agreed that none of them would be charged with any additional sexual assaults. They probably raped multiple people in that apartment, so they’re potentially avoiding really long prison sentences. At least they didn’t get county jail or suspended sentences.
I think the PUA stuff can turn ordinary guys into serial rapists. It encourages people to change their thinking so they don’t take consent seriously. Even the less extreme techniques assume that “yes” and “no” are gray areas. It’s not about teaching someone social skills or how to build rapport with people in a genuine relationship.
…i think i’ve said before that i was very VERY nearly raped at a party some years back, while NOT drunk (yes i’d been drinking, but i’d also gone to bed in a room set aside for me, while wearing full-length PJs, and was cold sober) and to the police saying “oh it’s REGRET”…FUCK THAT NOISE. I wish they could have seen me, on my stomach, fighting like hell to keep some asshole from raping me while I cant move my hands, screaming into a pillow for him to stop…but, you know, i was never penetrated and i had no injuries, so i’m sure it was just…regret sex ::lights the whole situation on fire with her mind like Eleven::
@Troubelle
You! You… Stop making me feel better *not quite smile emoji*
Stairs give her trouble, but she can swing them hands
That’s a tough road to walk. Trust me
@Snowberry
Probably not strictly a comments policy thing, but… It’s still sorta blaming rape on mental illness. That’s not cool. I get the caveats there, but I wouldn’t have said it anyway. Gets pretty close to that line, ya know?
I don’t know that it violates the comments policy per se. However, the comments policy says what it says because of the cultural context of equating assholish/douchey/rapey/racist/misogynist/etc. behavior with mental illness.
Rape is not the result of mental illness. People who are mentally ill are not exempt from being rapists if they have sex or sexual contact with someone who does not consent, but the reason they did that was not their madness. The reason they did that is going to vary somewhat from person to person, and “they’re mad” is never going to be it. The reason is always going to one of the same reasons sane people commit rape.
It’s more than stigmatizing to make this connection where no factual connection exists. It causes physical harm to crazy people. The mentally ill are far, far more likely to be the victims of abuse, including sexual abuse, than to be the perpetrators thereof, but when this kind of behavior is linked to mental illness, the mentally ill are likely to not be recognized as victims. I mean, it also gives sane people cover for their actions, and others them, etc., but the real harm it does to the mentally ill is my point.
So, does it violate the comments policy to say that rapists should be thrown into psychiatric treatment? Dunno. I know that it feeds into a harmful social dynamic without having to bother with trying to split hairs wrt the commenting policy on this blog.
Believe me, I see what you’re trying to say:
But I hope you also believe me when I say that the psyche ward thing could have been worded better, and subbing in “psychiatric hospital” wouldn’t have improved it.
@Alpine, RN
I’m so sorry that happened to you.
What a vile individual.
I hope that you’ve come to some sense of peace about that incident. May it be so.
@Axecalibur
My own grandma’s crazy tough. She loves spicy and healthy food (so she’ll get, say, whole-wheat pizza with jalapenos or add way too many red pepper flakes to the green beans), insists on getting her regular exercise, and was back on her feet after double knee replacement within a month. So I know what it’s like.
Unfortunately, her political views are…well, she’s planning to vote for Trump. Lord save us all.
And this was easy pickings, as compared to some of the trolls I’ve read of in the archives.
@Troubelle
While we’re on the comments policy…
Mom’s not to the point of knee replacements yet *crosses fingers*
Granny Troubelle sounds like a trooper!
Oof! My sympathies
@Axecalibur
oh butts
This is embarassing. -POUNDS HEAD AGAINST WALL SEVERAL TIMES-
Maybe this is a sign that I should be going to bed.
In any case, she does at the very least support me. Trivia: she actually slept in the same dorm hall I currently am.
@Troubelle
That’s not safe! Are you OK? 🙂
http://i.imgur.com/PhijPZB.gif
It’s an exaggeration. I actually did it for dramatic effect when I was younger, though. (Then again, I also ate non-food objects. Still do.)
She was studying to be a nurse (later became a medical lawyer), I’m still weighing my options.
Ahh, The Incredibles. I saw it when I was a kid and thought it was cool. I see it now and think it’s almost too relevant.
It’s disturbing that they’re only in prison because “Laura” intervened and caught them in the act and “Claire” did the independent research. The police didn’t even get a warrant to search the apartment.
@Troubelle
Figured. Didn’t stop me worrying 🙂
I bite things. When my hands are full, I use it as an excuse to put stuff in my teeth. Don’t know why I need an excuse, but whatever 😀
Besides the objectivism, it’s pretty timeless
Just blurting this out: my husband and I have raised our sons (with their assistance) in such a way that they would be horrified by such a situation. The idea that there are such men out there almost makes me wish we had raised daughters*, so we could have raised them as my sisters were raised – as my eldest brother once put it, ‘women who would kick your ass for a quarter.”
My sisters are bad asses.
*I had no confidence in my ability to be a father to daughters.