As longtime observers of the manosphere know all too well, it’s not always easy to draw a clear line between “pickup artistry” and “raping drunk women.”
That line seems to have been completely nonexistent when it came to the trio of pickup artists profiled in a long and horrifying Daily Beast piece by Brandy Zadrozny, with the self-explanatory title “Pickup Artists Preyed on Drunk Women, Brought Them Home, and Raped Them.”
The pickup artists in question apparently specialized in the highly Rooshian strategy of “hanging around outside of bars at closing time in hopes of meeting really, really drunk women.”
Here’s how Zadrozny describes the “pickup” that got the trio arrested:
When the bars closed for the night, Claire and Laura [not their real names] shuffled out with the rest of the crowd onto Fifth Avenue. They called an Uber, and as they waited, they were approached by two men, Jonas Dick and Alex Smith.
Jonas and Alex were no strangers to meeting girls on that street at that time: they referred to two in the morning as “pull o’clock” because of how easy it was to bring home the last women leaving the bars. They invited Claire and Laura to their place for drinks. It was only a few blocks away.
Renting an apartment only a couple of blocks from the bars, also a very Rooshian technique.
Claire says she doesn’t remember meeting Alex and Jonas. She remembers stumbling and someone with a receding hairline “pushing her along,” leading her to an apartment building. She remembers being in a semi-furnished bedroom on a mattress without a headboard. Someone giving her a clear drink. The sip she took didn’t taste like water, maybe it was alcohol? Before she could think about it, she was falling backwards, and that’s when she says it all goes black.
What occurred in that bedroom over the next hour runs in and out of Claire’s mind like waves. As she testified in court, she can feel the bed beneath her, coming to for a moment, and vomiting on the floor. She hears one—or is it two?—male voices, mumbling like the adults in “Charlie Brown” before it all fades away again.
It gets worse.
If you’re not up for reading a really long story full of graphic details of rape at the moment, Robyn Pennacchia at Wonkette provides a condensed, if also pretty graphic, version of the story here.
@megalibrarygirl
My daughters 16, I hear you, that’s heartbreaking. Go easy on yourself. My theory is that as long as you answer honestly and don’t sweep it under the carpet it’s going to be the right answer. Pat on the back to you mom for starting the conversation. Now, don’t let it stop 🙂 She’s given you an opening, as embarrassing as it is, keep it open, that’s far more important than saying the “perfect” thing.
What would I say? I’d say what you did, and I’d use it as another opportunity to remind her how valuable and worthwhile she is despite this horrid world constantly teaching her the opposite. And I’d use it as another opportunity to teach her that it’s perfectly OK to say no to anything someone else wants from her, and how she can do that.
You say you don’t feel like you reached her, but the fact is she felt she could say that to you in the first place, you reached her long ago it seems. Well done, mom, good work 🙂
@tricyclist They plea bargained, so the San Diego DA’s office won’t charge them with any sexual assaults they committed before pleading guilty.
It’s pretty horrible. The 8 year sentence is the statutory maximum for one count. I’d say 16-20 years should be the absolute minimum if someone did this to multiple people and planned it.
Maybe there’s some way to have a federal prosecution. Or get all the women together and file a civil rights case against Real Social Dynamics (maybe the police also). I’d love to see all those guys get deposed.
@sigh
Thanks. It’s hard to know what is right sometimes. But thank you for reminding me that staying open is important.
I am really very worried where she got the idea she’d be raped someday. 🙁
They think hurting people is funny.
I hope they feel that pain.
What else is there to say.
As a California resident, I can attest to this. Whenever we get nice weather, everyone runs out and starts raping.
So are aren’t men just as likely to have a personal relationship with a woman who has been raped under similar circumstances? Do they just not know this thing about the women in their lives, or are they magically able to remain impartial about it? I’d really like to know if male prospective jurors were asked this question, and how they responded.
Wait, what? People who have friends who’ve been raped can’t be jurors on a rape case? What the fuck, justice system?
@Croquembouche
This one.
TW: Awful birds & bees story
@Megalibrarygirl
Rape culture is terrifying.
That said, I’m a lot older than your daughter, and I found out about sex when I was 8 and my 10-year-old friend told me about rape.
My informant told me that a guy would take a girl down to the river in his car, where they’d park. Then he (not they) would do the deed. And then he’d throw her in the river.
Sooo the whole rape thing sounded . . . bad. But the drowning thing? Count me out!
I guess I’m saying that the notion of rape as inevitable is nothing new. But thank goodness you, her mom, challenged that idea!
TW: Awful birds & bees story
I can see this delightful experience making you think “I want to find a girlfriend,” or “I want to learn to surf”, or “I want to find a girlfriend who surfs”. “I want to pick up blind-drunk women at two in the morning and rape them” does not immediately spring to mind for those of us who are, you know, not rapists.
I just…nope, not reading the linked article. David’s post was enough for me.