I’ve gotten a number of extremely thoughtful responses from assorted alt-right twitterists to my post yesterday in which I offered an improved version of the new alt-right logo, with a Ku Klux Klanner head replacing the stylized “a.”
And by “thoughtful,” I mean “don’t read the following tweets if you’re not in the mood for jokes about murder, suicide, and the Holocaust and/or a defense of the KKK’s lynching of black people.”
I think I hear your oven timer going off, it's at 616 degrees right now.
— GrauTiger? (@PZKW117) September 12, 2016
https://twitter.com/soObviousTurtle/status/775460982239989760
https://twitter.com/AmericanReset88/status/775488975544856576
https://twitter.com/NationalistHero/status/775468355109007360
https://twitter.com/RedskinRey624/status/775469805046337536
https://twitter.com/RedskinRey624/status/775477705978421248
Oh look, a death wish:
@mc_morn Another leftist loser living with his mother. Delete your acct. David, then yourself. pic.twitter.com/tEyZAWiXCc
— Concierge Monthly (@ConciergeMthly) September 12, 2016
Followed by a death threat:
@mc_morn Save us the trouble of hunting you down…..:)
— Concierge Monthly (@ConciergeMthly) September 12, 2016
This one, posted by someone using a picture of racist mass murderer Anders Breivik as an avatar and featuring a photo of actual dead people, is a little too NSFW to post here.
Given the, er, high racist content of these responses, I’m not quite sure why exactly any of these people are mad about being compared to the KKK.
To be fair, though, they weren’t all mad. There was one Pepe-avatared alt-right Twitterer who liked my fixed logo:
https://twitter.com/freed_humanity/status/775459668562849792
Oh, and FYI, Twitter Nazis, I’m not actually Jewish. Like a lot of the people sporting “echoes” around their names on Twitter, I added the marks as a tiny little “I’m Spartacus”-style act of solidarity. That said, I did go to a Jewish day camp for several summers as a kid. One time we got to meet Sandy Koufax! That makes me practically a Jew.
@ Virgin Mary:
As far as I’m aware, it still is used that way in the Far East at least (quite possibly elsewhere too, for all I know). The symbol on Japanese maps to denote a Buddhist temple is a swastika (or it was when I was there 10 years ago and I imagine that hasn’t changed). Or I guess it may have been a sauvastika, the mirror image of the swastika – I know both symbols have a similar meaning in Asian cultures and can never remember which is which.
Just for fun, here’s how to make a Chinese macrame knot known as a sauvastika knot: http://chineseknotting.org/overhand/sauvastika/ It doesn’t actually look hugely like a sauvastika – no more than many of the gravatars here, certainly not enough to make someone think you’re a mirror world Nazi for sporting one – so I guess it could be a subtle way of sort of reclaiming the positive meaning a bit. (But I agree that it’s sadly never going to happen for a more recognisable version!)
@ diptych
Oh I didn’t think you were blasé. You raise a really good point. And it’s an attitude that as I mention I’m very familiar with. My own views could certainly be challenged on grounds of consistency if not downright hypocrisy.
As for rule of law I spent last weekend on some legal stuff trying to work out where a certain plan fell on the spectrum
Publicity > legitimate pressure > schotastic terrorism
It’s a complex subject indeed.
@Neremanth
In Australia, at least, it’s quite commonplace to see shrines with swastikas alongside Buddhas and other religious paraphernalia. They’re still safely in the hands of their proper owners and being used responsibly, you could say.
@Alan
Here’s to a civil exchange of viewpoints, then! Cheers! (And, I don’t envy you that puzzle – honestly, working out degrees of responsibility for actions like that seems to be one of the great challenges of our age.)
Carl Sagan believed the swastika was a depiction of a comet seen from head on; hence it’s universality (a global memory of a real event)
@Diptych
Interesting! That makes sense, but I didn’t know that. It’s possible they’re used in the same way in Buddhist temples here (the UK) too – I wouldn’t know as I’ve never visited one here.
@ Diptych, Alan
I completely identify with that rage one feels towards someone who has hurt an animal; it’s a visceral reaction against something that seems utterly unjust (whether to act on that feeling is another matter). What I don’t get is proposing a random group of people (who may or may not have harmed animals) to be used as test subjects instead. The first time I encountered it, I found it bizarre that one could care so much about one type of cruelty, and then happily suggest another.
Plus, the whole ‘use prisoners instead’ thing is a little too close to home for me. When your big brother has done a life sentence, it’s hard not to take these things personally.
@Diptych, are you from Aust. as well? Hello 😀
@Mish – I am; Melbourne born, Melbourne bred! Hello! 😀
@Neremanth – I dare say they might be! I have poked my head into one or two Buddhist temples to say hello. Shrines are also quite common here in businesses. You’ll often go into a restaurant, say, and find a nice little shrine set up at the front counter, or in a peaceful corner.
@Diptych – That’s nice! I don’t think that’s common here (at least in view of the customers), but of course it’s always possible I simply haven’t noticed them. I do recall seeing one tucked up on a shelf in a Thai restaurant one time, but that’s it.
@Alan –
That reminds me of this bit in an old Israeli skit, where one guy is enjoying a falafel and, since this is during Passover, the other guy asks if the Pita isn’t hametz (leavened bread, i.e. unkosher for Passover; this was befote the advent of alternative flours that can “cheat” the traditional Passover demands, but that’s another story for another time). First guy answers:
“A dry pita is hametz. A fresh pita is tasty.”
😀
@ penny
Living in Israel you’ve probably heard this one (about four times already today probably).
A rabbi and a priest are at a conference and get chatting at the buffet. Eventually the priest says “I’m sorry to be so nosy but may I ask, have you ever had bacon?” The rabbi looks around and then replies “Actually I did try it once”. The rabbi then says “If you don’t mind me asking, have you ever had sex?”. The priest gives a grin and says “Actually yes I did once”. The rabbi smiles and says “Better than bacon isn’t it”.
@ mish
I can completely understand where you’re coming from. Even without the family connection it would be a disquieting topic.
You and diptych have really got me thinking though. I was pondering the various issues all night. There’s just so much of it. There’s also an interesting thing about the intersection of animal rights, especially veganism, and feminism. I bet you have some interesting ideas about that. Just on the campaigning thing though one could write lengthy tomes and only scratch the surface. For example, I have a real world thing where I’m getting into a bit of a row about the tone being used in an anti milk thing. It’s horribly gloating about dairy farmers going bust.
@ Diptych – ah, Melbourne in all its melbourniness 🙂
I take my son back there every year (although last year I stuffed up and we were in the city for Grand Final weekend… not so great for a pair of non-sporting types)
@ Alan
Thanks for that. I know you’ll dismiss this with a witticism – but your comment was lovely in its empathy.
Agreed about the veganism/feminism/activism thing. Looking forward to pursuing this further with you soon!
It is 🙁
I have a problem with the idea of prisons in the first place and how it’s applied. I mean that’s bad enough, but then people on the outside have to make it worse by not even regarding you as human…?
Timing : my playlist switched to a song about the West Memphis Three. It’s from before they were released. It ends with a chilling recording of Byers’ “Every year on May 5th” monologue.
@Mish
*stares at recent messages that say otherwise*
Why thank you ! I needed that 🙂
@ mish
Aw thank you, that’s so sweet of you to say.
Yeah, I don’t want to rake up any horrible thoughts for you, but your comments about your brother did strike a chord with me. Without dismissing the effects of violent crime, one thing I noticed over my years of practice was that people rarely set out to be bad. Nearly all the homicide cases I’ve been involved in have just been the result of a momentary flash of anger or a stupid decision. A few seconds of thoughtlessness and so many lives ruined. Oftentimes, had it not been for the consequences, the parties would have been back being friends the next day. One case in particular brought home the pathos. My client had been sat with a friend when the friend admitted that some tools he claimed had been stolen he’d actually sold to buy drink. Those tools had been my client’s livelihood. There was a knife in the table.
The case ended up on appeal and the judgment was almost poetic in the way it captured the tragedy of the event.
@ John
Who said you weren’t wonderful? Let me at ’em!
Re prisons – we do tend to forget that incarceration is a fairly new way of dealing with people who break laws (the most convincing theory I’ve read suggests that deprivation of liberty would have meant less in times when many people didn’t move around much anyway and the concept of the individual hadn’t yet taken root).
I’m ambivalent about it but certainly in its current form it does a great deal of damage. My brother’s case is not a sympathetic one as he did indeed kill someone. The whole family was punished, however.
A few days ago a student claimed that murderers should get the death penalty (it was abolished here decades ago). I thought, my brother might actually be better off dead. He’s agoraphobic, claustrophobic, HIV+, diabetic, has no teeth left, is an alcoholic, has pancreatitis, and the list is endless.
I’m going to hit ‘submit’ before I change my mind.
@ Alan
What a heartbreaking story. Oh my god. Such a waste, on both sides.
@Mish
Fuck. Thanks for submitting <3 <3 <3
@ mish
Coincidentally that case* has a bit of a feminist connection. It ended up in the House of Lords and became the key case on the law of provocation (a subject that cropped up a lot in DV cases). An organisation called Women Against Rape provided me with a lot of information and material.
The one fact that always sticks in my mind from their research was that in 60% of murder cases it’s the murderer who calls the police.
[* R -v- Morgan-Smith for any law students out there]
I was told by a former Jewish friend that kosher slaughter was humane because it was quick and they use a very sharp knife, but I doubt this applies when it’s done on the commercial scale.
@Mish
All of the hugs ever for you and your brother. And screw anyone who yells “death penalty” – that’s just awful. Our far-right parties have managed to bring it back into debate here… The very last person to be executed in France was innocent, and accused on very shaky ground and dubious evidence. Of course they’d already cut off his head when they found the real culprit.
He was the last, but also the first in a very long time. Normally at that time the presidents would veto executions as a way to abolish the death penalty without doing it for real – but this time the public outcry was too much, and there was no veto. Turns out it was never about justice, people just wanted blood.
Now apparently we want to go back to that. “Only for the guilty” of course… but fuck that. I don’t even care whether they’re guilty or innocent.
Same goes for prison, really. I get that society needs to protect itself, that people can be dangerous, etc. But you look at the whole thing around the world, and there aren’t a lot of prisons that actually do anything to that effect. Yeah, at least they’re still alive, alright. Not sure they all think it’s worth it. There’s probably a better way. And there’s definitely a bunch of ways to make prisons humane at the very least, dammit.
This.
@Penny Psmith
Sorry, just saw your question. I’m from the suburbs of Seattle, so across the sound from Bremerton and Sequim. It’s very pretty out there, so I like to visit, especially when the lavender is in bloom. 🙂
@ Mish,
I keep trying to say something that isn’t facile, and I keep backspacing it.
If you want them, all the hugs.
The death penalty and eternal life are equal in their deservedness. Nobody ever earns either.
@Croquembouche
Would a death sentence at the end of eternal life balance it out and make it earnable ?
Sorry, dumb attempt at lightening the moods.
@Mish
I just checked on the fever swamps for a bit (and now I need to bleach the hell out of my brain) and I saw that they’re still using the Catlady Ascendancy thing !
That was one inspired claim 😀
Oh and huh apparently now they worship some ancient egyptian god because he’s called Kek… Right. Sure. Whatever.
@Mish
I suspect it has a lot more to do with resources and surpluses; keeping someone in a little box for years on end is actually very expensive, and many historical societies didn’t want (or couldn’t afford) the expense on a large scale. IIRC, prisons were instituted as a more humane alternative to hangings, floggings, etc.
@ mish & dalillama
Foucault’s ‘Discipline & Punish’ is the standard text on how prisons came about. It’s pretty good.