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Do women really enjoy sex, men who hate women ask

Not tonight
Not tonight

Ladies! Do you feel a bit twitchy? Is the hair on the back of your neck standing up? Don’t worry — that just means that Reddit’s MGTOWs are talking about you again.

On the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit the regulars are trying to figure out whether women enjoy sex as much as men. Or at all.

The general consensus? Women aren’t really into sex  — unless it’s with the mythical Chad Thunderc*ck.

“The more I learn about them,” writes original poster psychomantis01,

the stronger the impression I get that [women] are only really interested in childbearing, money, and companionship. It seems to me, as somebody here once put it, they are only really in love with the ‘idea of being in love’, and not in love with the actual man himself.

Spoken like a man who’s never spoken to a woman.

NuclearTruthBomb agrees.

If women actually loved sex as much as men, they’d be approaching men everywhere, watch porn everyday, and frequently visit male prostitutes.

Of course, they may swoon over the occasional Chad. But realize they are only turned on by upper echelon of men. We only need a woman to be attractive…if even that.

Zombocom1911 reports that women definitely don’t have any interest in having sex … with him:

Women are always saying they love sex but in my experience they are completely f**king frigid and really low sex drive unless you are already having sex with them. They never, ever really ACTIVELY pursue or initiate sex with a stranger because they really just don’t care about it, unless its to get something out of a man, like love, affection, dinners, cards, romance.

They are so completely disinterested in sex and stuck up about it , it makes me f**king sick. This is why they can charge such a heavy price for it, because they really don’t want it and really don’t need it.

A top 5% male like Chad Thundercock may have pussy literally thrown at him though. I am not him, so I wouldn’t know.

As Reddit’s MGTOWs see it, even if women aren’t into sex, it’s pretty much all they have to offer men. As Oldredder puts it:

Outside of sex women have nothing to offer. Most of what they talk about is completely boring, unintellectual or, worse, is catty nonsense and pride in being a cheating slut.

Bartand offers a similarly bitter take:

The only reason they enjoy sex at the beginning is because it is their only way to be loved since they have nothing else to offer. Then later she start to wonder if you like her for more than sex so she start to cut off sex.

As Flaye2 sees it, women use their lack of interest in sex as a weapon against men in the ongoing war of the sexes:

Women seem to have lower drives and they use that to control men. Wives would cut off the sex but at the same time not allow him to satisfy him urges elsewhere, that is evil.

But most of the regulars agree that women do get tingly for Chad.

“With men well above their sexual league, they unreservedly enjoy it,” writes feedmecarrots.

With men in their league, who they are using sex with as a manipulative tool, they can’t enjoy it. It is too much like work. 

Not all of the commenters are convinced that women hate sex.

“I’m kind of surprised reading the comments,” writes Antingly, one of the only contributors to the discussion who sounds like he might have actually had sex with an actual living human female.

Sure, some girls seem like they don’t enjoy sex that much, but, some girls will black out during an orgasm. I’m sorry, but I have never experienced anything like that – even when it was really good.

A fellow called givecake, somewhat unexpectedly, offers his fellow MGTOWs some tips in the fine art of lady pleasing.

If you ever wanted to please a woman sexually, it doesn’t hurt to stimulate all 3 areas at the same time.

In case any MGTOWs are reading this post, a quick reminder: The “3 areas” he’s speaking of are the right knee, the left nostril, and the visitors’ center at the Beaver Dam Rest Stop south of Owensboro, Kentucky.

beaverdam

Givecake continues:

Obviously, use your best hand for clitoral stimulation.

The clitoris can be found just inside the left nostril, if the woman in question is right-handed. If she’s left-handed, the clit will be located behind the information desk in the visitor’s center at the aforementioned Beaver Dam rest stop.

Don’t expect her to ever consider doing anything like this amount of work for you.

For one thing, most women don’t have arms long enough to reach all the way to Kentucky.

The MGTOW subreddit really is one of the saddest places on planet earth.

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PirateJennie
PirateJennie
8 years ago

@Policy of Madness

Thanks again. That’s great advice.

Remembering that I still have autonomy and can say “no” or “stop” has been difficult so reminders are welcome and helpful.

kupo
kupo
8 years ago

@PirateJennie
The worst part for me about being really ticklish is my partners in the past have decided I like being tickled despite my telling them that I really, really dislike it, that I’ll probably kick them, and that it gives me terrible flashbacks of being little and held down, trapped under a blanket, and tickled by my much larger siblings. I tried to explain that the giggling is reflexive and I can’t control it, and that I can’t breathe or talk when in a convulsive fit from bring tickled, but they never actually believed me. My husband, at least, gets it.

PirateJennie
PirateJennie
8 years ago

@Kupo

Exactly! I have (mostly environmental) asthma and being tickled can trigger episodes so between laughing and feeling breathless talking is difficult if not impossible.

My dad was one of those who ignored my pleas to stop, my trying to escape him and insisted I liked it because of the involuntary giggling and grinning, so I can relate to having flashbacks.

I’m glad your husband gets it 🙂

Diptych
Diptych
8 years ago

What a comments thread! Trolls are boring, but people comparing notes on the strange ways bodies work is fascinating. Personally, I have nothing tremendous to add, except that I get brief but intense full-body shudders if the back of my neck gets tickled or scratched a certain way. Used to happen a lot, when I wore a certain kind of uniform shirt – these days, it’s rare enough that I forget it’s a thing until it happens.

Oh, one completely OT question – I was reading a discussion of representation of PoC in media, and a few particularly cringey lines about “not seeing race” and “but what about the whites” were dropped. Made me think “I bet there’s a bingo card for this”, but I couldn’t find any – anyone know of a relevant one?

weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo

I did a Google image search for “white privilege bingo” and found a few good ones.

comment image

http://ranibakr.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/racist21.jpg?w=490

Saraphm
Saraphm
8 years ago

@Gert

I’ve suffered from anal fissures (nothing to do with anal sex, which doesn’t appeal to me at all and I’ve never indulged in). What’s unusual is that, apart from the intense pain they can cause, they also cause bouts of debilitating nausea. How to explain that? ?

I’m a vet, not a people doctor, so it may not be the same, but in animals colonic disease, particularly things like severe constipation or ulcers, can trigger vomiting and suppressed appetite. There are stretch receptors in the colon that can produce nausea to the point of vomiting, I assume the same is true in people and that this could be related to your nausea.

Em
Em
8 years ago

I don’t understand how someone can live around women and not see that they clearly like sex. Where are these people living, remote man-only islands? How can anyone be so clueless? Now, I wouldn’t visit a prostitute because I would rather have sex connected to a real relationship with someone I really like or love rather than a random stranger. I’m sure a lot of other women feel the same. How does that mean we don’t like sex, just because we don’t like it the exact same way? And women do watch porn, sometimes. I have, and I know friends who do. I can only watch stuff made for women though. Go to any mainstream website and you’re bound to get a lot of degrading and violent stuff that is a turn off for me. I know a lot of women prefer erotic fiction and imagination over visual porn.

Kat
Kat
8 years ago

I remember being quite young (five? six?) and hitting my elbow and having it hurt like hell.

I asked my mother about that, and she explained that I had hit my “funny bone.”

Not so damn funny, if you ask me!

Kat
Kat
8 years ago

@LindsayIrene

There will come a time when you will no longer see my posts, and that will be because my tiny, adorable tortoiseshell kitty inadvertently gassed me to death while I slept.

Yes, of course Mister/Ms. Fluffy-Wuffy will claim that it was “inadvertent.”

And of course no jury of his or her peers will come back with a guilty verdict.

Our cats threaten on a regular basis to murder us in our sleep. Or at least, that is our interpretation.

Kat
Kat
8 years ago

@PirateJennie

I have severe peripheral and mild to moderate global neuropathy from malnutrition due to dangerously disordered eating.

I experienced disordered eating for a while myself, although it was mild compared with yours.

I’m so glad that you’re recovering. Good luck!

Aunt Podger
Aunt Podger
8 years ago

If you have “referred pleasure” to the feet from intense clitoral stimulation, you are not alone by a long shot— my pre-college clique used to refer to very good oral sex as “hot feet,” as in, “So s/he gave you the hot feet, hm?” (Not that you asked.) But has anyone else confirmed that sex is much easier to enjoy, to a weird degree, when your feet are warm?

As to “can’t tickle yourself,” one of the latest theories bandied about re: tickling is that it’s a low-stakes way to teach young people how to protect the “if you leave it vulnerable during a fight, you are dead” areas. (I am not sure why, under this hypothesis, the front of necks aren’t severely ticklish.) I do know that it is really hard to be tickled by a person you don’t trust, to some degree, and that it’s a very real red flag for “get out of there NOW” when you cannot be tickled by a partner for whom you used to be super-ticklish.

I am also told that there is no scientific explanation for “piss shivers,” but I think that nerve graphic may put paid to that.

Bina
Bina
8 years ago

@Em:

Where are these people living, remote man-only islands?

On the Internets, most definitely. The fact that they rely on other, equally (or almost equally) clueless men for their “information” on women is just…tragic.

(Well, for THEM, anyway. For everyone else, it’s just funny.)

Aunt Podger
Aunt Podger
8 years ago

@bina, ah, but women are fundamentally untrustworthy. Why, we even lie about enjoying sex/ orgasm.

Also, I find

We only need a woman to be attractive…

to be quite telling. So… just throwing it out there, but maybe women “only” need to find men attractive, rather than being manipulated into sex with partners their body is screaming “hell, no,” about?

PirateJennie
PirateJennie
8 years ago

@Kat

Thank you! I’m glad you’re referring to your disordered eating in the past tense and I hope you’re doing well. My recovery is shaky but I’m better than I was before 🙂

@Sinkable John (is it okay to use just this portion of your name?)

I’ve been meaning to say hello. I’ve had chronic insomnia and just shitty sleep as far back as I can remember. I’m sorry you have to suffer with it but your openness about it has been helpful. Thank you.

Sorry if I’ve been derailing in any way. I should have saved this for an open thread.

Bina
Bina
8 years ago

@Aunt Podger:

Why, we even lie about enjoying sex/ orgasm.

To these guys, maybe…because not lying to them about their (nonexistent) prowess could touch off a fit of rage that results in a murder. But that’s on the off chance that someone was lonely or desperate or deluded enough to sleep with them in the first place…and, given the stink-aura they exude, that would require some doing.

So… just throwing it out there, but maybe women “only” need to find men attractive, rather than being manipulated into sex with partners their body is screaming “hell, no,” about?

Nah. Too straightforward and logical. Every menzer knows that to really understand women, you have to think in labyrinthine contradictions! And then, to bag one, you have to behave completely counterintuitively and counterfactually, as well!

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
8 years ago

@Sinkable John (is it okay to use just this portion of your name?)

I’ve been meaning to say hello. I’ve had chronic insomnia and just shitty sleep as far back as I can remember. I’m sorry you have to suffer with it but your openness about it has been helpful. Thank you.

Sorry if I’ve been derailing in any way. I should have saved this for an open thread.

Hi 🙂 (sorry, I only just saw your comment, I was looking the other way where the trolls are 😡 )

First off : you’re not derailing at all. This is an old thread, it’s the seventh page already, at this point just mentioning the original post warrants its own tag.

Of course it’s okay to just use this portion, in fact that was my original pseudonym here, until generous idiots provided me with more to add :3

I’m sorry you’re dealing with insomnia, as well as your eating disorders (glad you’re recovering from that !). I’m glad I’ve been helpful. I find that insomnia is the kind of subject that gets all sorts of asshole into blaming mode, saying “you don’t work enough so you’re not tired enough to sleep” and such bullshit, so I’ve made a point of being as open as possible about it. The same goes for my depression and mild alcoholism. Of course people here aren’t the sort to be assholes about it in the first place, and many have provided advice regarding how to manage the side-effects of insomnia, like creeping anxiety and such.

I came here for the whole “tracking and mocking online misogyny” – I stayed because eryone is awesome. Stick around and share your experiences and your joys and your pains and add your brick to that bridge !

Also you win all the internet points for the cat gravatar. I need to get around to setting mine but I think the picture I want has been lost to the limbo of broken hard drives ._.

PirateJennie
PirateJennie
8 years ago

@Sinkable John

The gravatar is my beloved Zelda, she was my constant companion for over 20 years and just a cool little kitty. I could fill a book with Zelda stories. I lucked out that my poorly tended WordPress account retained that photo since I’m limited to my phone for the time being as my old workhorse computer up and died.

I know what you mean about insomnia and blame. I’m often hesitant to mention either my disordered sleeping or eating because it gets tiring explaining myself. I know there are things I still do that contribute adversely to both. It’s good to feel that I’m part of community who doesn’t blame me for not perfectly adhering to sleep and eating regimens.

I also have depression and have used alcohol in ways I know is unhealthy. The eating & sleeping disorders are affected by both, but still independent & distinct which is difficult to explain at times. Again, just having a place to go where that complexity is understood is more of a relief than I have the eloquence to convey.

Thanks so much for your reply. Your comments are often a bright point in my day. I look forward to being a more active part of the WHTM community.

Edited to add:

No worries about not seeing my comment. The Mig troll got under my skin a bit too.

Kat
Kat
8 years ago

@PirateJennie

Welcome!

I’m going to echo Sinkable John and say that we change the subject often, so that’s not a problem at all.

Echoing SJ again, I’ve been admiring your kitty avatar. Zelda is really beautiful. The photo reminds me of an ad from my childhood for the Chesapeake & Ohio Railroad, featuring “Chessie” the C&O mascot. Their slogan was “Sleep like a kitten.” Kittens sleep hard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chessie_(mascot)

And yes, my disordered eating is in my past, and I’m happy about that!

It’s good to feel that I’m part of community who doesn’t blame me for not perfectly adhering to sleep and eating regimens.

I hear you. Although my eating is no longer disordered, I’m still dealing with the perfectionist voice in my head.

But really, that’s one way I dealt with disordered eating: by coming to realize that my body knows what it wants to eat, and I should get out of its way, instead of following a diet that says “Midmorning snack: 1 hard-boiled egg.” I couple that attitude with making conscious decisions every day about whether I’m actually hungry or just bored or upset, and so on. But once I figure out if I’m actually hungry, I pretty much let my body have what it wants and I enjoy what I’m eating. Then I stop when I’m full. Revolutionary concepts!

bluecat
bluecat
8 years ago

A wonderful and informative thread.

I think we are all wired very strangely, and a lot of the fun of going to bed is working out how each other are wired.

I have always loved having my feet massaged – though there’s one spot on the instep which, if pressed, makes me want to pee – but the beloved cannot bear to have his feet touched. It seems to go beyond ticklishness and into the realms of severe anxiety and tension, not in a good way.

A lot of ticklishness strikes me as to do with apprehension: my brother as a child was so ticklish you could make tickling motions at him from the opposite side of the room and he’d be convulsed. It used to really annoy him.

I have mild peripheral neuropathy since the chemo, mostly in my feet which tingle unpleasantly a lot of the time. Walking barefoot on turf or sand is about the nicest thing for it. Massage shoes would be awesome.

Re: clitoral response from another area: back of the knees and the side of the neck under the earlobe seem to be connected directly to mine, but also the brain as I’ve experienced orgasm with no physical stimulus in particular (rarely, but still). Surprised myself first time.

Re curry – the perfect degree of spiciness is when the insides of my earholes feel warm.

mildlymagnificent
mildlymagnificent
8 years ago

piratejennie

Nerve conduction tests.

I had one nearly 15 years ago. With any luck, you’ll have a competent technician. Mine was done by an arrogant arsehole neurosurgeon. Admittedly he was testing for a specific condition so the test might have been a bit non-standard (and there’s nothing anyone other than a podiatrist can do for the condition so it’s booooring for the exalted status neurosurgeon) but I found the leg testing quite painful at times. He just huffed that it shouldn’t hurt.

The fact that the nerves are steadily dying does not mean that there’s no sensation or diminished sensation. It’s _disordered_ sensation – I remember my poor father crying because of the unrelenting sensation of insects crawling under the skin of his arms. (One of the reasons why he never told us that he had this genetic disease when he later found out what it was. All of us feel a bit guilty about possibly handing it on to our children.)

Just make sure that the tech responds appropriately if you indicate that anything is uncomfortable or hurts you. Decent people will be concerned and sympathetic if that happens.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
8 years ago

@PirateJennie

The gravatar is my beloved Zelda, she was my constant companion for over 20 years and just a cool little kitty. I could fill a book with Zelda stories.

Please do feel free to start sharing those stories any time 🙂
Zelda is beautiful; her little face reminds me of my BooBoo, who I lost a year ago.

Kularanini
Kularanini
8 years ago

Most of what they talk about is completely boring, unintellectual or, worse, is catty nonsense

I see when this fellow went his own way he left his self-awareness behind.

Chaz Thunderc*ck
Chaz Thunderc*ck
8 years ago

It’s Chaz. Not Chad.

Apart from that … yeah, it’s all true …. and exhausting.

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
8 years ago

I’m often hesitant to mention either my disordered sleeping or eating because it gets tiring explaining myself. I know there are things I still do that contribute adversely to both.

Things people I had met recently have actually told me :

“But you don’t look depressive right now !”
You wouldn’t have insomnia if you didn’t drink so much coffee.”
Why do you blame your depression on sad things that have happened to you ?”
Alternatively : “Those things shouldn’t affect you that much, you’re just overreacting.”
Why do you keep drinking if you know it’s unhealthy ?”
“You’re only insomniac because you’re addicted to weed.”
Alternatively : “Weed is illegal, you should use actual medication to put yourself to sleep, it’d work better/be easier to procure/not get you into trouble.”
You’re not mentally ill because people who are mentally ill don’t know that they are.”

Being extremely open when meeting new people works as an asshole filter. Not everyone who says these things is an asshole, just the ones who keep saying them after you’ve told them why they’re wrong. And yes that includes the ones who say you shouldn’t do x because it makes y worse.

Bonus tracks :

“Men can’t be feminists, they have nothing to gain from it.”
“You wouldn’t advocate for stronger welfare and social services if you weren’t poor.
“If racism is so bad, why do you keep bashing on your own race ?”
“At least you’re the harmless kind of mentally ill person, you won’t start rampaging in the streets killing people.”

ikanreed
ikanreed
8 years ago

So I’m way late to the conversation, but I want to weigh in on the “Women are both sluts and hate sex” obvious stupidity.

There is an internally consistent but rarely openly acknowledged ideology to it. They think women “give in” to sex. Like it’s always under pressure by a man. And “sluts” are women who don’t put up enough roadblocks. It’s probably the defining ethos of the red pill types.

That’s why they’re so obsessed with rape, because in their simplistic, hyper-gendered sex roles, rape and rape-like behavior is a normal part of sex.