Ah, the good old days, when me were men and women were c**ts!
You know, just regular c**ts, not the pampered, stuck-up, fat c**ts of today.
Such is the argument of an unusually spirited, if sometimes incoherent, mini-manifesto winning plaudits from the regulars in the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit today.
In a post titled “Women/society made us think we were losers,” a proud MGTOW warrior calling himself shogunronin looks back with nostalgia on what he sees as the golden age of the nineties.
As a man who was gifted with growing up in the nineties, I experienced a time when women were c**ts but not as egotistical, a time where political correctness only was conjured in parliamentary buildings.
Ah, the nineties, “a time where SJWs were too busy listening to Korn or Marliyn Manson” to cause much trouble and when “fat women [weren’t] trying so hard to raise their sexual market value above men.” (Or at least above the sort of men who post angry manifestos on the MGTOW subreddit.)
How far we have fallen! In the nightmare world of today, some of these fatties actually have the gall to think of themselves as valuable human beings who deserve respect from others.
Now, we live in the times of self-made female celebrities, single mother culture, the media who language shames anyone who speaks the truth, down to the gagging of conservative thinkers on popular social media platforms, fat shaming and it’s reactionaries,
Er, in case you had trouble diagramming that last sentence, I think that bit at the end means he’s mad anyone complains about fat-shaming.
He continues, making up words as he goes:
And lastly, the detasteful rise of Feminism and their eternal hatred for anything with a dick. As a result of the army of manginas, white knights, beta-facebook pleasers, man-begging on dating platforms, women now are in control of the dating market and are free to act how they wish.
Imagine, women — some of them fatties! — actually having the gall to reject good and decent, if maybe just a teensy bit misogynistic, men like shogunronin!
They are free to treat a man like crap because 50 others are queing up on her social media account. Some women are even calling themselves celebrities as 5,000 manginas cheerlead her on Twitter in the hopes of one day bagging those golden vagina lips that could never do anything wrong.
You may wonder what exactly shogunronin thinks vagina lips are doing wrong. Robbing banks? Writing bad checks? Going to see Lady Ghostbusters?
Shogunronin does not specify. He is apparently more angry at the owners of these “golden vagina lips” for refusing him and other perfectly decent woman-hating men access to said lips.
I believe MGTOW is a reaction to the woman uprising. Men who are sick and tired of female priviledge in both society and the court room. If you noticed, MGTOW on the internet had risen just about the same time that online dating went mainstream. It is a F**K YOU to all women who think they’re above men. We are going our own way, bye hunny.
But shogunronin isn’t just angry at women and the manginas who love them too much. He’s also mad at pickup artists for suggesting that the value of men is determined in large part by the hotness of the hot babes they date (or date rape).
Yes, that’s right. There’s actually a portion of his manifesto that sort of has a point.
As a man in my early twenties, I was indoctrinated into the PUA cult. I was led to believe that if i couldn’t attract a woman than I was a failure with women which equaled a failure at life. It was only after reaching my later twenties that I began to realise how dangerous this mindset can be.
Alas, after this brief moment of clarity, shogunronin is once against swallowed up by the ideological fog of MGTOWism.
Women were the only ones who benefitted from the PUA movement.
Because nothing benefits women more than having an army of aggressively creepy dudes using every psychological trick in the book to overcome “last-minute resistance” and get them into bed. (Or just plain date raping them if that don’t work)
It turned awesome men into tools. It provided women with a stream of unappreciated attention. It was full of men who went out building their entire confidence around women. I know this because we would discuss how shitty we felt when being rejected multiple times in one day and successful when we got laid. Women were constantly pressuring men to impress them, and now with the rise of social media dating, women have a eternal pool of meatheads and manginas who are thirsty.
Sorry, MGTOW dudes. Your self-esteem problems are not the fault of women who don’t want to have sex with you.
We now live in a culture that demonises men and rewards women for their shitty behaviour.
Apparently he’s very angry that women are “rewarded” for saying no to sex with men they don’t like by, er, not actually having to have sex with men they don’t like?
THE HORROR.
A fat whale now has access to the more attractive men while the average joe has to ‘brand’ himself both metaphorically and physically just to meet the outlandish standards of modern women.
How dare these “fat whales” only sleep with men they’re attracted to and who want to have sex with them!
The truth is none of us were losers because of these women,
TRUE. Your loserdom has nothing to do with these women.
the truth is women priced themselves out of the dating market.
NOT TRUE. They just said “no” to you when you came at them with your PUA bag of tricks.
Upon being MGTOW, I have been financially better off, I have been happier, I have more time to follow my passions in life other than chasing some egotistical self-made celebrity c**t.
Apparently one of these passions is posting bitter, woman-hating manifestos on the MGTOW subreddit.
Life is good for me now.
I don’t … actually believe you. This manifesto is pretty obviously not the work of a man enjoying the good life.
Not surprisingly, the regulars in the MGTOW subreddit disagree with me on this point, applauding shogunronin’s mini-manifesto and responding with mini-manifestos of their own.
2045_revolution laments how exploitative the current sexual marketplace is. Exploitative of men, that is. Sure, he admits,
Men may use women as wet holes attached to a uterus, but women use men as wallets and sources of high quality genetic material. It gets demoralizing. As a man, the best you can hope for is to be a strong and healthy host for a female parasite to latch onto. When you think of guys in their expensive clothes, expensive cars, etc just advertising how filled with resources they are to parasites, it loses its appeal.
Meanwhile, 2045_revolution complains, some women he thinks aren’t so hot are trying to date men he thinks are hotter!
Internet dating and the rise of PUA culture have created a generation of crap women who think they are amazing catches. It used to be that a woman who as a 6 knew she was a 6. Now the 4s and 5s think they are 8s because of all the validation they get from thirsty men.
How dare women have the gall to try to date men they find attractive!
People can ridicule MGTOW all they want, but the exodus is really just starting. I think there will be sociological consequences. In ten years there will be tons of angry MGTOW men and bitter, used up women who got kicked off the CC. A society full of angry, bitter women (many of whom will be single mothers) who chased a hypergamous fantasy and ended up feeling used and empty handed, and lots of angry, bitter MGTOW men who felt ignored and devalued is what we are looking at. Nobody will win.
And if single mothers think they can have 2045_revolution’s “beta bucks,” well, NUH-UH!
Just as there is not an infinite supply of male 9s and 10s willing to enter committed, monogamous relationships with female 5s, 6s and 7s, there is not an infinite suppply of gainfully employed male 6s and 7s willing to clean up these women’s messes as they push 40. I say this as a BB who has had a half dozen single mothers try to use him in the last few years.
A fellow calling himself cheaperautoinsurance puts the blame on “smartphones and social media” for “basically destroy[ing] american women,” presumably because so many dudes who want to have sex with them say nice things about their selfies and sometimes send them lovely photos of their penises.
For blackierobinsun2, though, the roots of our current situation are rather more basic:
Women f**ked up America when they wanted jobs
Most of these btches going to college only work for a couple of years to end up getting pregnant and not wanting to work again, stupid whore just wasted a college degree and stole a job opportunity from a man feeding his family
Such a tragedy that blackierobinsun2 is taking himself out of the marriage market. What a lovely husband and father he could be!
Let me say it again: If you’re going your own way, fellas, just freaking GO. Lead your own life however the hell you want, as long as you’re not hurting anyone else in the process. Just stop cluttering up the internet with your ridiculous rants.
@Buttercup, lol, inorite? I wanted to grab him by the shoulders and shake him and say “Teaching yourself boolean operators at the age of six is not impressive! Stop resting on the laurels your mommy gave you!”
Ah, poor guy. I gave him a lot of rope because I understand that must-be-right-at-all-costs mindset; I struggle against it a lot myself. He just needs a cookie and some warm milk, and for someone to tell him that it’s okay to be wrong.
@Sinkable John, you can use french words if you prefer, I know those too! And, don’t feel too bad. It’s exhausting, but stomping trolls with science is sort of a self-improvement program for me. It’s usually a good exhaustion.
(Usually. There’ve been a smattering of the utterly unapproachable trolls lately, too, and ohmigosh, guys, gag me with a spoon. These guys. Can’t live with’em, can’t launch them from a trebuchet.)
#ModeratelyRelated
I wrote a thing in the NoNeedForGettingToAPoint thread which I’d be happy to have input on. It’s mostly just self-aggrandizement and pomposity, but if people want to comment or otherwise tear it to bits, I’d be happy for it.
@Mick Dash
First of all it is very difficult to see you as arguing in good faith and I am currently tallying points in the “legitimate” and “Illegitimate” categories. One easy example is that your first post in here was very supportive of MGTOW and asserting it will get bigger and more supported, and later in here you start talking about how you are not actually one. At the minimum that presents a contradictory presentation.
Second of all you don’t deserve this response or any of the others that you got since you have not backed your shit up when it comes to defending your assertions. Why should anyone try to demonstrate anything for you when you don’t show a willingness to do the same? I’m giving you a chance so in response to what I am willing to answer for you I want to see:
1) Solid reasons for why “…theories like hypergamy theory are falsifiable and testable, and quantifiable in terms of data…” with respect to women and why you don’t think this would apply to men. Those are not just words, you need to give us the scientific testable questions, the null hypotheses, and demonstrate falsifiability.
Relatedly I’ve seen people answer you multiple times for why they feel insulted by what you are saying and this is one example. It’s perfectly reasonable to be insulted by a suggestion that women do what they do “cause hypergamy”. If I see you act all confused by the way people are treating you and there is nothing new to it that is a point in the “illegitimate” column.
2) Solid reasons for why “…esoteric faith-based dogmas like “patriarchy theory” and “male privilege”…” is an accurate description. Why is it faith-based? Why is it dogmatic? Where is the unjustified belief and unreasonably unquestionable features?
3) Why is feminism a religion? What do you mean by religion? I only see you using a negative context, why are you doing that?
4) Why do you believe “… alpha f.cks beta bucks…” deserves recognition the same as in #1?
Additionally you have the problem of claiming others are using logical fallacies without actually pointing them out. Without pointing out the fallacy all you are doing is name calling.
Show us you are willing to accept the same standards that you want from others. You made the claims, it’s your job to substantiate them. It’s not the job of others to show that these things are not a scientific theory. I went to graduate school and if I were to tell one of my professions “how are my ideas not true” I would have been laughed at at the very least.
Now on to your issues.
1) Rights is not a feminist concept. Rights are part of many many more things philosophical and governmental. I don’t see anything wrong with questioning the existence of rights in general, but you came here talking about problems with feminism specifically. If you don’t have anything outside of rights to attach “religious” and “faith-based” to you must concede that this is a general philosophy-ish (social psychology is useful here) related issue and not a feminist issue.
The take-home message here is that your problem as stated is a philosophy problem, not a feminist problem and no one has to take you seriously on that. I seriously doubt you are questioning rights in any other places as I suspect this is merely strategically useful (but am open to being wrong, with evidence).
But to take it seriously as an aside I would say that rights are not things that exist independently of minds, and that they are a logical outcome of our social instincts. For example a use of tit-for-tat morality (which has positive (golden rule) and negative (you hit me and I hit you back) expressions) preserved in symbolic form that we agree to be bound by as a group is a possibility. Rights exist just as much as our language does, symbolically expressed concepts meant to make society run better.
You are going to have to get more specific by what you mean by “don’t believe rights exist”. You can disbelieve in them all you want but conceptual existence is still existence, and our species is often quite ready to kill and die for things that are conceptual. It’s part of what we are.
2) It’s fair to ask how one constructs and tests a scientific hypothesis, just keep in mind that many here are reasonably annoyed by you so you may have burned those bridges. Not all feminists are “gender studies masters”, that is a stereotype and a pattern of thought that you should be worried about due to the broad problems that it creates in your thinking processes. In general to do science one must:
a. Clearly identify the phenomena.
b. Read what is known about the phenomena so far, existing theory and observations. Note that this will mean taking any feminist theory and competing hypotheses seriously or you will be cherry-picking. Reality will be what it will be independent of any theory.
c. Construct a scientifically testable hypothetical explanation/question for the phenomena that takes what is known about it into account. Basically “if X is true, what Y must exist in the world as a consequence?” Here would also articulate the null hypothesis, basically the expression of the reality if X were not true.
d. Design an experiment that is meant to disprove Y but detect it if it is there. This is very important because that means that it should be falsifiable automatically if you see it this way (this can be harder than it looks if you don’t have experience at it).
e. Run the experiment and get some peer review.
f. Independent confirmation.
That’s good for now. It’s more than you deserve.
http://orig06.deviantart.net/e146/f/2013/051/2/d/2d720c0e9f849657fdcefddd0714e725-d5vlp8g.gif
I don’t think they’re coming back, tbh. Thank god.
As for how I am doing, that’s complicated.
Over the last two months I’ve learned that I can take punches, bites and now broken bones from patients and it does not faze me. I’m basically inexperienced and when my toe heals I will take Judo. They are 13-17 year old males who are there for impulse control, mood and anger issues. It’s just not personal. After the punch to the cheek I was talking to the kid who threw it about how I just want to see them get the help they need and that if they were sorry they would do what they needed to do to get better (the same kid punched himself bloody in seclusion after another aggression issue, these kids need help and they are doing what makes sense where they are). My brother (who defeated everyone at camp Pendleton at grappling while he was there) is helping me find a good place for the judo.
But that’s the physical and real world conflict. My blogging has, suffered. I think I’m sensitive to something I want to call “inconsistent emotional processes”. I want to write about aggression and social conflict as it occurs in text (which is a complicated thing with tourette’s syndrome, the social part of symbolism feels like this persons description of autism and a noisy chaotic environment), but I have to learn to avoid power struggles where I typically enjoy them. I’m trying to find transition and compartmentalization solutions. Often communicating with people online is like staring into the sun. Only the conflict makes sense and it’s embarrassing that I can’t do the random small talk well. There is just too much information in even the small stuff and I always have to cage the rabid chimpanzee that wants to alter my word choice.
They have me on light duty and I can still get myself to work because I just bought one of these. I was able to complete a “motorcycle” training course with the broken toe because a scooter works with the toe. So that’s nice. But all my fun is simple stuff like Lego Jurassic Park or Elite: Dangerous. 😛
A present for every one who worked so hard on this thread today!
If you have ever watched Soul Eater, this is the most beautiful thing to ever have existed.
@theseventhguest
My nym has absolutely nothing to do with him. What are you insinuating? BAKA! Such a yokel you are…
@PI: Thanks for sharing your witchy thoughts with us. Even though I have some experience, it’s good to see someone else’s view of the craft.
Regarding Tarot, what is your favorite deck? (If you can pick a favorite)
@theseventhguest
Thanks!
@Brony
Whoa! That’s quite stoic — and it’s good that you’re going to sign up for judo.
Take care of yourself.
Daw, shucks!
That’s a hard one! I love to look as decks as art on one hand, and in the other, my old flea-market quarter find Morgan Greer tarot has been good to me (and has drug me quite a few times. I have never felt more personally attacked by an inanimate object than when I started doing readings. XD).
There’s a lot of decks I want to get though. My favorite manga artist, Mitsukazu Mihara, made a lovely Gothic Lolita one (she’s had a massive influence on the style), and there’s of course more modern ones like The Zombie Tarot, and ones that appeal to my asthetic like the Housewife Tarot or the Vampyre Tarot (I have that one).
I also have one based off of the game Dishonored, and want a few more game ones, and I even want to do art for an Animal Crossing one.
I also have a Pinterest board of stuff for it.
It’s so hard to choose!
I also love tarot as a vehicle for character analysis. When designing a tarot card, there’s meanings to everything in the design, and when you’re designing to the Rider Waite tarot there’s a lot to take into account when designing a card with a character on it.
At the risk of necro-ing another massive thread* I’ve missed most of, I have a suggestion for SFHC’s curriculum:
Why Evo-Psych Only Ever Applies to Cisgendered, Heterosexual Men
This would probably be an elective.
*Just finished pg. 2, and yes, the comments seem to be a bit out of order.
@ theseventhguest
That was excellent. Thank you! It’s been a while since I watched Soul Eater; lovely to be reminded 🙂
Yissssss! Since I now have access to an actual computer and not just my internet-enabled smart phone (I recently upgraded to an older iPhone, thanks to my new roommates, just so I could play Pokemon Go), I now can tear this ass-pulled post that bugged the fuck out of me apart.
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/muahh.gif
The Divine Feminine isn’t a god(ess), Mickey dear. The Divine Feminine is a principle. Much like those tricky rights you can’t seem to wrap your head around.
The Divine Feminine is an energy that everyone has within them. You, me, everyone. We all have masculine and feminine energies, regardless of gender. The Divine Feminine is an energy that you can tap into and connect with during meditation or something similar to meditation.
You can use it as a way to connect to feminine godesses, but it is not something you (typically) worship on its own. It is a concept that can be celebrated, studied, and revered, but it’s not a goddess or a divine being that can can instruct or help its worshipers or lay down tenants for living and such. But, we’ll cover more on that later.
Many witches/practitioners of witchcraft (remember kids, not all pagans are practitioners, and not all practitioners are pagans!) study the concept as a way to connect with their own energies and/or get closer to the goddesses in their personal pantheon.
Here’s a blog that I follow that studies the Divine Feminine through the anime Sailor Moon that I mentioned earlier if anyone’s interested.
Slutwalk isn’t a ritual by definition. It’s not done for religious purposes, there’s no “way” or “prescribed order” to do a slutwalk. It is not overseen by religious officials. Nor is it done at any specific time or place, like Christmas Mass, Yuletide, any of the solstices, etc.
It’s an event. It’s something people go to and participate in to spread awareness of rape culture and how society deals with rape, and its victims.
By your definition, A Walk for the Cure for breast cancer is a religious ritual.
I don’t think you know what those are, broseph. Hoever, let’s talk about it, since I’m feeling chatty! Warning: Teal Deer inbound!
Safe Spaces 101:
A safe space is a space where marginalized groups can gather without having to worry about people trying to harass them in any way, or having to deal with topics that they might not want to deal with due to their mental state surrounding the topic.
For instance, this blog isn’t a safe space. We deal with trolls and the nastiest sort of people, and we talk about things like rape, violence against women, and the like. The stuff we talk about can be really awful sometimes and it’s not always appropriate, or safe, for someone to see.
So, how do we protect people who might not want to see that sort of thing at any given time? Trigger warnings.
Trigger Warnings 101:
A trigger warning gives a person an option to not deal with the conversation or topic at hand at all, so they don’t have to actually engage with the subject matter and risk being triggered, which makes the lives of people with specific triggers a lot easier. They can see the trigger warning, personally assess their mental health, and choose to walk away from the subject until they feel ready to talk about it, or entirely.
It’s very similar to allergy warnings or ingredients lists on foodstuffs. I’m allergic to blueberries. They make my throat swell up and make it so I can’t breathe as well for a good hour or so. Nothing life threatening, but it’s still really unpleasant so I tend to avoid them.
So, if I see a package that says it contains blueberries, I can make a choice: I can either eat the food anyway, and deal with the consequences (throat swelling, difficulty breathing, taking Allegra and having to lie down and lose hours of my day to suffering), or I can put the food down and walk away without having to digest it to see if I’m allergic.
Trigger warnings work the same way.
I am a rape survivor, therefore sometimes rape is difficult for me to discuss or even read about. A trigger warning on certain articles or comments made by people here can give me the option of leaving the conversation without having to directly deal with the topic, and thus sparing me the mental effects of being triggered, which for me include panic attacks, shaking, and crying. This can take anywhere from a half hour to an hour or two of my day to subside. I (obviously) don’t want to waste that time having to calm myself down.
However, some days I can actually discuss the topic without having to worry about it, or sometimes the topic itself doesn’t bring up flashbacks of my personal traumas, and therefore I can talk about it.
Triggers can also vary in degrees, much like allergies. Some people are deathly allergic to blueberries, to the point where eating them can possibly kill them, if not put them in the hospital. I’m a little lucky in that I don’t have to bother with that should I eat them.
So, while rape can lead to me being triggered really badly, I also have a few other triggers as the result of being abused as a child that just make me very uncomfortable. Not to the point of having a panic attack, but enough that I just avoid it.
Some triggers can also be silly and uncommon, just like some allergies. For instance, some people can be allergic to Acai berry, which isn’t in much stuff outside of the health food section. However, this doesn’t make their allergy any less important.
For example: I can’t stand powdered coffee creamer. I am severely uncomfortable using it for anything. Sounds silly, right?
However, it’s something my brain associates with my abuser. He used to have me make him coffee every morning, and if the cheap powdered creamer he used clumped, he’d shove it back at me, say it “curdled”, and demanded that I make a new fresh cup. Sometimes, we’d go through this process four or five times a day, and sometimes it would end with him telling me what a “worthless fuck up” I was and how I would “never amount to anything in life” because I, a young child, couldn’t make his coffee just the way he liked it.
So, my brain can’t stand it. I hate the taste, I hate the smell, I can’t even entertain the thought of using it in my own coffee, for fear it would clump up again.
Does that make my trigger any less important? No.
And that sums up some basic shit that people constantly misunderstand about Safe Spaces and Trigger Warnings!
Pretty sure feminists don’t force “bad” feminists to go see one of those because those two are full of shit and feminists actively despise them, but let’s have some fun with this shall we?
Let’s say that, hypothetically, this is an actual punishment that is given to “bad” feminists who have transgressed. This brings up some questions:
1. What would a feminist have to do to be considered worthy of this punishment? Is this a specific punishment for doing one specific bad thing, or is this something that is a catch-all for all “bad” behavior?
2. Who enforces this punishment? Which feminists (or feminist leaders) appoint those who enforce the punishment?
3. Why would we choose “forcing someone to go see a Milo/Warren Farrel speech” as a punishment over something like re-reading basic feminist literature as a form of “re-education”? Why would we force someone to go see someone who feminists actively despise instead of trying to force them back into line (because that’s the point of punishment: Correcting bad behavior so it isn’t repeated in the future)?
4. What would be a reward for “good” feminist behavior? Who dishes out the goodies for being a “good” feminist?
“Banning” from where? What are the rules of the place that those are being punished are being banned from? What gives this “feminism” religion the right to punish those outside of its religion?
What “dogma” does feminism have that is being “challenged”? Who is “challenging” it? In what way are they “challenging” it?
Can you provide examples of someone (Specifically a feminist) who is being punished by a feminist organization or a feminist individual for “challenging the dogma”?
Rights are not a “supernatural being”. You think they’re imaginary (and you’re very wrong about that, let’s not get it twisted), but they are not supernatural beings like the God of Christianity, who imposes rules on His worshipers and asks for sacrifices and who demands that they live their lives a certain way to please Him.
For instance, let’s say I worship Hephaestus, the Greek god of craftspeople. As a worshiper of Hephaestus, I should make sacrifices of my work to him on an altar devoted to him. Things like tiny paintings and articles of clothing that I’ve sewn, or even baked goods that I’ve made (Though, those could also go to other deities as well.)
I should also decorate my altar to him that I present these offerings on with his symbols. Things like robots (much like his mechanical beings that help him at his forge) and donkeys.
I can ask him for favors to help me with my work, and I can present thank yous of it later. I can ask him to bless me in my artistic and crafty endeavors.
Rights are not a supernatural being because none of this applies. Rights do not ask you to live your life a certain way, they only grant you the power to live your life with certainties that are granted to every person.
Actually, feminism is striving for equality for LIVING people, not for the afterlife, so that makes zero goddamned sense.
It also makes zero sense because no one, least of all feminists, are calling for all men to be “culled”.
There are plenty of places where women and girls are “culled” though. And plenty of places where racists are calling for people of color to be “culled” and plenty of places where cishet people are calling for LGBT people to be “culled”.
And there are plenty of places where that culling is actually happening.
So, let’s not pretend that you’re Super Oppressed because some straw feminist that the manosphere made up is calling for them to die.
_______________________________________
[cracks neck] Whelp, I daresay I’ve still got it. I missed doing this. I’ve only been gone for two weeks, but damn it feels good to do this again.
Has it been pointed out yet that culling of the male population doesn’t have anything to do with an afterlife? Even if real – not straw – feminists were actually for killing all the men, genocide is an earthly matter.
Never mind the silliness of believing that any feminists are arguing for androcide to even the playing field. The only ones I’ve seen do that are the MGTOW who want the apocalypse to come so that they have to compete with fewer men for sex.
Wait, wait, wait! I just realized something!
If we kill more men, then more men will be in the afterlife! If we feeeemales hate men enough to kill them, then why in the name of our Beloved and Feared Katie would we send them to the afterlife where we’ll be after we die, especially if we, according to Mick, envision an afterlife without them?!
Mick’s plan doesn’t make any sense on any level!
There are separate afterlife places for men and women. Men go to feminist hell. Women (and a select few manginas) go to feminist heaven. All the cats, dogs, red pandas, and fennec foxes go to feminist heaven too.
Should a lesson on “Feminist religion” be presented in your courses at this point, WWTH?
I should think so. It can include a lesson on how the Feminist High Priestesses have forbidden cargo shorts and beards. Well for men anyway. Women can still have them 🙂
@ WWTH
Yay beards! But could we please have lessons on how to dye our beards? Choosing the right shade of pink, or purple, for example?
ETA – not in the existing course, obviously. In another one where we are all indoctrinated into feminism 🙂
I feel like I should be used to the awesomeness with which this commentariat takes down disingenuous trolls, but wow folks, that really was a thing of beauty.
@PI – re: the “what are the penalties for transgression” thing, I’m pretty sure the troll of the hour was saying that feminists punish Yiannopolous and Farrell by… I dunno, protesting their talks or something. Am I remembering right that the infamous fire-alarm-pulling was at a Warren Farrell event? Which is equivalent to religious persecution, obvs, because rights don’t exist.
In any case, I think he is reading it as the totes-a-religion-feminism-overlords punishing the free-thinking outsider blasphemers, as opposed to punishing our own by making them sit through that drivel. (Although EGADS would that be a cruel punishment.)
Welcome back, PI.
I’ve got lots more to think about now.
@Paradoxical Intention And there goes another great rebuttal to this automaton called “Mick Dash”. Honestly, this guy keeps saying varying-yet-still-similar lines about a “religious dogma” , asking for proof about things that are philosophical in origin (which also have a lot of historical context to boot), something about taking a gender studies course, and somehow saying he doesn’t think rights are an actual, existing thing (or something along those lines).
The amount of effort you all put into refuting this brusque individual while still mocking his flawed statements is admirable (and certainly is more than what he deserves, ho-ho!), and is of course proof that the internet is not entirely a shit-show like it is elsewhere. Which is why I felt compelled to say this, as well as after reading EJ’s post regarding good posters as being beacons of reassurance to the silent readers of this site.
Oh yeah, and whoever has that bingo card oughta add “feminism is a dogma!” to the list, if they haven’t already!
“Can you provide examples of someone (Specifically a feminist) who is being punished by a feminist organization or a feminist individual for “challenging the dogma”?”
–Cassie Jay–
Thanks to everyone who responded to the discussion – some interesting perspectives. Paradoxical Intention and Brony, I can tell you put a lot of thought into replying. Perhaps I could respond to some of Brony’s points but I don’t want to trigger anyone which is what I’m kind of afraid of. I think some folks got rather emotionally upset earlier, and then I started to get emotionally upset from the backlash abuse it triggered. I’m not trying to create conflict – I respect feminists and their autonomy and freedom of belief. I just barely bought the textbook and reader for my Gender Studies class. Like I said, I actually do consider myself a feminist according to Bell Hooks’s definition. I would just have to see some evidence before I believe in “rights”. The standard definition of feminist is something along the lines of “the belief in equal rights for women”; rights as such are therefore central and axiomatic to the whole philosophy if that’s how we define it. I guess I’m not ready to take that flying leap of faith (although I used to be a believer – it was through a years-long introspection that i slowly disabused myself of this cultural myth of “rights” – 3000 years ago were there any “rights”? At what point did they spring into “existence”? Was it in the bc era or did they come later? Where are your rights at this moment? In your safe? Under your mattress? If someone “takes away your rights” where do they go? Into a black hole at the center of the galaxy?)
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