Ah, the good old days, when me were men and women were c**ts!
You know, just regular c**ts, not the pampered, stuck-up, fat c**ts of today.
Such is the argument of an unusually spirited, if sometimes incoherent, mini-manifesto winning plaudits from the regulars in the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit today.
In a post titled “Women/society made us think we were losers,” a proud MGTOW warrior calling himself shogunronin looks back with nostalgia on what he sees as the golden age of the nineties.
As a man who was gifted with growing up in the nineties, I experienced a time when women were c**ts but not as egotistical, a time where political correctness only was conjured in parliamentary buildings.
Ah, the nineties, “a time where SJWs were too busy listening to Korn or Marliyn Manson” to cause much trouble and when “fat women [weren’t] trying so hard to raise their sexual market value above men.” (Or at least above the sort of men who post angry manifestos on the MGTOW subreddit.)
How far we have fallen! In the nightmare world of today, some of these fatties actually have the gall to think of themselves as valuable human beings who deserve respect from others.
Now, we live in the times of self-made female celebrities, single mother culture, the media who language shames anyone who speaks the truth, down to the gagging of conservative thinkers on popular social media platforms, fat shaming and it’s reactionaries,
Er, in case you had trouble diagramming that last sentence, I think that bit at the end means he’s mad anyone complains about fat-shaming.
He continues, making up words as he goes:
And lastly, the detasteful rise of Feminism and their eternal hatred for anything with a dick. As a result of the army of manginas, white knights, beta-facebook pleasers, man-begging on dating platforms, women now are in control of the dating market and are free to act how they wish.
Imagine, women — some of them fatties! — actually having the gall to reject good and decent, if maybe just a teensy bit misogynistic, men like shogunronin!
They are free to treat a man like crap because 50 others are queing up on her social media account. Some women are even calling themselves celebrities as 5,000 manginas cheerlead her on Twitter in the hopes of one day bagging those golden vagina lips that could never do anything wrong.
You may wonder what exactly shogunronin thinks vagina lips are doing wrong. Robbing banks? Writing bad checks? Going to see Lady Ghostbusters?
Shogunronin does not specify. He is apparently more angry at the owners of these “golden vagina lips” for refusing him and other perfectly decent woman-hating men access to said lips.
I believe MGTOW is a reaction to the woman uprising. Men who are sick and tired of female priviledge in both society and the court room. If you noticed, MGTOW on the internet had risen just about the same time that online dating went mainstream. It is a F**K YOU to all women who think they’re above men. We are going our own way, bye hunny.
But shogunronin isn’t just angry at women and the manginas who love them too much. He’s also mad at pickup artists for suggesting that the value of men is determined in large part by the hotness of the hot babes they date (or date rape).
Yes, that’s right. There’s actually a portion of his manifesto that sort of has a point.
As a man in my early twenties, I was indoctrinated into the PUA cult. I was led to believe that if i couldn’t attract a woman than I was a failure with women which equaled a failure at life. It was only after reaching my later twenties that I began to realise how dangerous this mindset can be.
Alas, after this brief moment of clarity, shogunronin is once against swallowed up by the ideological fog of MGTOWism.
Women were the only ones who benefitted from the PUA movement.
Because nothing benefits women more than having an army of aggressively creepy dudes using every psychological trick in the book to overcome “last-minute resistance” and get them into bed. (Or just plain date raping them if that don’t work)
It turned awesome men into tools. It provided women with a stream of unappreciated attention. It was full of men who went out building their entire confidence around women. I know this because we would discuss how shitty we felt when being rejected multiple times in one day and successful when we got laid. Women were constantly pressuring men to impress them, and now with the rise of social media dating, women have a eternal pool of meatheads and manginas who are thirsty.
Sorry, MGTOW dudes. Your self-esteem problems are not the fault of women who don’t want to have sex with you.
We now live in a culture that demonises men and rewards women for their shitty behaviour.
Apparently he’s very angry that women are “rewarded” for saying no to sex with men they don’t like by, er, not actually having to have sex with men they don’t like?
THE HORROR.
A fat whale now has access to the more attractive men while the average joe has to ‘brand’ himself both metaphorically and physically just to meet the outlandish standards of modern women.
How dare these “fat whales” only sleep with men they’re attracted to and who want to have sex with them!
The truth is none of us were losers because of these women,
TRUE. Your loserdom has nothing to do with these women.
the truth is women priced themselves out of the dating market.
NOT TRUE. They just said “no” to you when you came at them with your PUA bag of tricks.
Upon being MGTOW, I have been financially better off, I have been happier, I have more time to follow my passions in life other than chasing some egotistical self-made celebrity c**t.
Apparently one of these passions is posting bitter, woman-hating manifestos on the MGTOW subreddit.
Life is good for me now.
I don’t … actually believe you. This manifesto is pretty obviously not the work of a man enjoying the good life.
Not surprisingly, the regulars in the MGTOW subreddit disagree with me on this point, applauding shogunronin’s mini-manifesto and responding with mini-manifestos of their own.
2045_revolution laments how exploitative the current sexual marketplace is. Exploitative of men, that is. Sure, he admits,
Men may use women as wet holes attached to a uterus, but women use men as wallets and sources of high quality genetic material. It gets demoralizing. As a man, the best you can hope for is to be a strong and healthy host for a female parasite to latch onto. When you think of guys in their expensive clothes, expensive cars, etc just advertising how filled with resources they are to parasites, it loses its appeal.
Meanwhile, 2045_revolution complains, some women he thinks aren’t so hot are trying to date men he thinks are hotter!
Internet dating and the rise of PUA culture have created a generation of crap women who think they are amazing catches. It used to be that a woman who as a 6 knew she was a 6. Now the 4s and 5s think they are 8s because of all the validation they get from thirsty men.
How dare women have the gall to try to date men they find attractive!
People can ridicule MGTOW all they want, but the exodus is really just starting. I think there will be sociological consequences. In ten years there will be tons of angry MGTOW men and bitter, used up women who got kicked off the CC. A society full of angry, bitter women (many of whom will be single mothers) who chased a hypergamous fantasy and ended up feeling used and empty handed, and lots of angry, bitter MGTOW men who felt ignored and devalued is what we are looking at. Nobody will win.
And if single mothers think they can have 2045_revolution’s “beta bucks,” well, NUH-UH!
Just as there is not an infinite supply of male 9s and 10s willing to enter committed, monogamous relationships with female 5s, 6s and 7s, there is not an infinite suppply of gainfully employed male 6s and 7s willing to clean up these women’s messes as they push 40. I say this as a BB who has had a half dozen single mothers try to use him in the last few years.
A fellow calling himself cheaperautoinsurance puts the blame on “smartphones and social media” for “basically destroy[ing] american women,” presumably because so many dudes who want to have sex with them say nice things about their selfies and sometimes send them lovely photos of their penises.
For blackierobinsun2, though, the roots of our current situation are rather more basic:
Women f**ked up America when they wanted jobs
Most of these btches going to college only work for a couple of years to end up getting pregnant and not wanting to work again, stupid whore just wasted a college degree and stole a job opportunity from a man feeding his family
Such a tragedy that blackierobinsun2 is taking himself out of the marriage market. What a lovely husband and father he could be!
Let me say it again: If you’re going your own way, fellas, just freaking GO. Lead your own life however the hell you want, as long as you’re not hurting anyone else in the process. Just stop cluttering up the internet with your ridiculous rants.
@ EJ
The first step is to ‘dress for the job you want not the job you have.’
@Alan
In that case, I vote EJ dress like this:
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02100/star16_2100637i.jpg
BTW, my answer to that has always been that I want a job that lets me dress comfortably. I have that for the most part, but I think it would be seen as unprofessional if I ditched the bra, do I still wear the uncomfortable thing.
@ kupo
I’d prefer EJ not to dress that way in case we ever end up attending the same event.
You know how embarrassing it is when two of you are wearing the same outfit.
Ohmigosh Chio, that has got to be exhausting. <3 You deserve so much better than that. (I mean, I get it, though – we don't really choose the people we love, often, and it's a tragedy, but still. You deserve so much better)
I hope that he's getting awareness about the impact of his actions on you, and that it's working out!
#Trollerton (Mick Dash? Whatever his name was)
Goodness what a trip through the wonka factory that was. I practically had a circus organ tooting away in the back of my head as I was reading his lines. Classic channer noob-just-asking-questions nonsense, but wow do your research first, kiddo.
All these trolls are exhausting me, I think! I still have teal-deer-mctalkerson back in a necro’d thread (Shallow grave I think?) to respond to, and, ugh. It’s just a wall of garblemesh. My eyes slide right off the screen when I think about reading what he’s got to say. He’s all “rabble rabble brain plasticity i’m super smart i taught myself booleans when i was six i progrum plcs!” and my eyes roll into the back of my head to hide from the words.
Perhaps I should reply solely in fluttershy gifs, that’s probably safer.
Okay, so Troll Mash brought up the Divine Feminine, and I am actually really interested in this subject.
However, I am interested as a PAGAN first, as a feminist second. Since RELIGION AND FEMINISM AREN’T THE SAME THING.
I swear to The Goddess this dude must have just googled it and copy pasta’d what sounded the most feminine. My brain cannot handle someone being this willfully ignorant.
But anyways, there are a lot of scholars out there, of both the Career and Hobbyest varieties, who study the Divine Feminine (Which is more of a principle than a dieity that one worships, Mashy.), and I actually ran across an interesting blog that uses the anime Sailor Moon as a way to study the Divine Feminine and examine the principles thereof.
As for my Feminist interest in the subject: it’s more of a history thing than a religious one. Back in The Olde Times, there were lots of societies who worshipped goddesses and/or women. (Though don’t get me started on the amount of cognitive dissonance needed on behalf of the Greeks/Romans to worship goddesses and simultaneously believe women were lesser than men)
As monotheistic religions like Christianity grew in number (sometimes by forcing pagans to convert OR ELSE. You’re welcome, Christianity, for all those holidays and traditions, by the way.), the ideas written in their holy books (which were mostly if not entirely written by men) said that a woman’s place was behind a man as his support, instead of standing on her own as her own person.
All this being said (and I apologize if it seems all wonky, I haven’t eaten yet and my brain is all out of order), I do want to make one thing clear: Feminism can concern religion. Many feminists are religious, myself included.
HOWEVER, that doesn’t mean feminism itself is a religion.
I would provide better rebuttals to specific “points” Mick made, but I don’t have access to my computer yet, so blockquotes and links are difficult.
I think I’m going to try to set it up today though, so we’ll see.
@ Paradoxy
Including for a while, Muslims in Mecca.
Check out the Satanic Verses (the bits in the Koran, not the overrated novel)
For an example of how the Virgin Mary was conflated with the divine feminine to make Christianity more palatable in Celtic Britain you may enjoy reading up on Culdee Christianity.
Wow! How did you manage 8 pages of comments between my (relatively) regular page checks?
As sad as I am to have missed participating, I can imagine how frustrating that circular conversation must have been. I doff my cap in the direction of commenters who engaged seriously with the idiocy (you have superhuman levels of patience and articulacy), and applaud those who employed mockery (special mention to the poetry, but it was all good).
I love this community. I wonder if MD will be sharing their new insights with their (possibly fictional) lecturer – oh, to be a fly on the wall…
Did someone say dark magicks? Guess it’s time to get necromancing again!
@PI, I dunno about anyone else, but I’d be much more interested in reading about your thoughts on paganism than your stompy-stomp on the mash that our recent troll left on the floor. As fun as those are to read!
@ scildfreja & Paradoxy
I’d second that.
ETA: Although I too enjoy your forensic trouncing of trolls.
Aw, shucks! Though, I’d hardly call myself an expert on the subject. I’ve only been studying for a few months now, and that’s only been here and there, mostly due to my living situation. Now that I’m out of there, with roommates that are aware of my Witchy Ways, I’m hoping to do a lot more!
I’ve catalogued some stuff though on a witchcraft side blog, and I even have attempted a tarot journal if anyone would like to see that.
(windowboxwitchery and windowboxwitchery-tarot respectively on tumblr if the links don’t work)
[crossing fingers to hope that her links work with mobile typing and autocorrect]
I think I know what went wrong with the tarot journal link. Try this one.
And Violet made me think of this:
Necromancy: Brining new meaning to “Raising a family”!
@PI: I’m glad I made you think of something funny xD
@ Paradoxy
You might find Cassandra interesting. She knows a lot about the historical side of witchcraft as well as the practicalities.
She can also advise you how to claim tax relief on cauldrons and broomsticks (not kidding, she did it)
https://cassandralathamjones.wordpress.com/about/
@Scild
Yes. But worry less, we are making slow progress AND I am a lot less attached! I’m waiting for significant change to do another, uh, “report”.
@Chiomara
Excessive pedantry is kind of reflexive for me; sorry about that.
@Alan Robertshaw
I was once worshiped by 8 Californians who wanted to dodge property tax on their shared home. For all I know, they’re still at it.
They’re pretend they’re angry when women stay home and raise kids. Then they pretend they’re angry when we don’t. They’re angry when we want to get married. They’re angry when we’d rather be single.
Really, they’re just angry and looking for an excuse to blame a woman.
I find it so funny that MGTOW think women are lavished with praise on online dating sites when women have made it very clear that we are not. Men are not a constant delight for us to get “attention” from. Niceguysofokcupid is never going to want for material.
Has anyone else gotten a suspicious ammount of attention from handsome “widowers” and “veterens” on social media who have brand new accounts and no friends in common with you from time to time? Those are the only men lavishing praise on me online and that’s because they think it makes it easier to get your bank account info.
Grifters gonna grift.
Oh man, I missed it! Wow, he was the best troll we’ve had for ages. Seriously, when he first said that he was on a gender studies class, I snorted quite embarrassingly.
“I take gender studies class. I’m learning about slutwalks. They’re the best.”
“Oh, what school are you at?”
“I’m really loving this gender studies class. It’s- really tremendous. I’m totally going to get an A. I have the best marks, just the best.”
“What textbook are you using?”
“Yes sir, nothing better than a gender studies class in the morning. I sure do love me some feminist authors! I know so many.”
@Alan Robertshaw
Well, shucks! Thanks! I would have continued, but I hit my troll stupidity threshhold and had to tap out.
@Scildfreja
You were very patient and indulgent in responding to him, Scildfreja. I could hardly make it through the thicket of pomposity, name dropping, and “I work in this field and that field and design digital gates and know everything about neuroscience and smart cars and Hellen Keller and ascorbic acid and car safety features and so on and so forth”. Really exhausting to be around a mind that’s so condescending and flealike. He’s the kind of guy who corners you at a party to blither philosophical non sequiturs at you and you’re like oh crap, now I’m trapped.
We’ll see if he responds to our requests to stay on topic. If not, feel free to unleash the Fluttershy.
@Lea – Yup! I’ve noticed an uptick in random friend requests from vets and widowers-with-golden-retrievers who have no other friends. If it’s all the same scammer, you’d think they could have their fake profiles friend each other so it at least looks like a real account.
@ dalillama
I’m now imagining God saying that to some friends he’s invited round for cocktails.
I don’t suppose troll will come back after yesterday’s spankin’, but if he does, I’d really like him to adress all those points he’s conveniently ignored as soon as he was questionned a bit insistently.
No MGAIC either.
@Kat
So, just Rick Astley then ? Cookies to whoever rickrolls this troll if he comes back. Or the next one. Or the shallow & graven one. Whichever, it’s not like any of those clowns deserves to be taken seriously.
@Scildfreja
Don’t let em 🙁
It’s great that you adress them while staying nice, polite and patient, and your rebuttals are a pleasure to read, but don’t put more effort in that than is necessary. The shallowgrave idiot is especially tedious and… yeah I don’t have the words in english to describe what he is. I think everyone will agree that we’d rather read you in a context that we take seriously – scaring trolls away is just a bonus.
Take a break if you need, and let the meaniepantses handle a few of them 🙂
(can somebody just whisper to me what PRATT means please)
Point Refuted A Thousand Times.
The stuff they keep throwing at you while yelling “CHECKMATE, FEMINISM !!” but really you’re just tired of having to debunk that shit yet another time.