Ah, the good old days, when me were men and women were c**ts!
You know, just regular c**ts, not the pampered, stuck-up, fat c**ts of today.
Such is the argument of an unusually spirited, if sometimes incoherent, mini-manifesto winning plaudits from the regulars in the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit today.
In a post titled “Women/society made us think we were losers,” a proud MGTOW warrior calling himself shogunronin looks back with nostalgia on what he sees as the golden age of the nineties.
As a man who was gifted with growing up in the nineties, I experienced a time when women were c**ts but not as egotistical, a time where political correctness only was conjured in parliamentary buildings.
Ah, the nineties, “a time where SJWs were too busy listening to Korn or Marliyn Manson” to cause much trouble and when “fat women [weren’t] trying so hard to raise their sexual market value above men.” (Or at least above the sort of men who post angry manifestos on the MGTOW subreddit.)
How far we have fallen! In the nightmare world of today, some of these fatties actually have the gall to think of themselves as valuable human beings who deserve respect from others.
Now, we live in the times of self-made female celebrities, single mother culture, the media who language shames anyone who speaks the truth, down to the gagging of conservative thinkers on popular social media platforms, fat shaming and it’s reactionaries,
Er, in case you had trouble diagramming that last sentence, I think that bit at the end means he’s mad anyone complains about fat-shaming.
He continues, making up words as he goes:
And lastly, the detasteful rise of Feminism and their eternal hatred for anything with a dick. As a result of the army of manginas, white knights, beta-facebook pleasers, man-begging on dating platforms, women now are in control of the dating market and are free to act how they wish.
Imagine, women — some of them fatties! — actually having the gall to reject good and decent, if maybe just a teensy bit misogynistic, men like shogunronin!
They are free to treat a man like crap because 50 others are queing up on her social media account. Some women are even calling themselves celebrities as 5,000 manginas cheerlead her on Twitter in the hopes of one day bagging those golden vagina lips that could never do anything wrong.
You may wonder what exactly shogunronin thinks vagina lips are doing wrong. Robbing banks? Writing bad checks? Going to see Lady Ghostbusters?
Shogunronin does not specify. He is apparently more angry at the owners of these “golden vagina lips” for refusing him and other perfectly decent woman-hating men access to said lips.
I believe MGTOW is a reaction to the woman uprising. Men who are sick and tired of female priviledge in both society and the court room. If you noticed, MGTOW on the internet had risen just about the same time that online dating went mainstream. It is a F**K YOU to all women who think they’re above men. We are going our own way, bye hunny.
But shogunronin isn’t just angry at women and the manginas who love them too much. He’s also mad at pickup artists for suggesting that the value of men is determined in large part by the hotness of the hot babes they date (or date rape).
Yes, that’s right. There’s actually a portion of his manifesto that sort of has a point.
As a man in my early twenties, I was indoctrinated into the PUA cult. I was led to believe that if i couldn’t attract a woman than I was a failure with women which equaled a failure at life. It was only after reaching my later twenties that I began to realise how dangerous this mindset can be.
Alas, after this brief moment of clarity, shogunronin is once against swallowed up by the ideological fog of MGTOWism.
Women were the only ones who benefitted from the PUA movement.
Because nothing benefits women more than having an army of aggressively creepy dudes using every psychological trick in the book to overcome “last-minute resistance” and get them into bed. (Or just plain date raping them if that don’t work)
It turned awesome men into tools. It provided women with a stream of unappreciated attention. It was full of men who went out building their entire confidence around women. I know this because we would discuss how shitty we felt when being rejected multiple times in one day and successful when we got laid. Women were constantly pressuring men to impress them, and now with the rise of social media dating, women have a eternal pool of meatheads and manginas who are thirsty.
Sorry, MGTOW dudes. Your self-esteem problems are not the fault of women who don’t want to have sex with you.
We now live in a culture that demonises men and rewards women for their shitty behaviour.
Apparently he’s very angry that women are “rewarded” for saying no to sex with men they don’t like by, er, not actually having to have sex with men they don’t like?
THE HORROR.
A fat whale now has access to the more attractive men while the average joe has to ‘brand’ himself both metaphorically and physically just to meet the outlandish standards of modern women.
How dare these “fat whales” only sleep with men they’re attracted to and who want to have sex with them!
The truth is none of us were losers because of these women,
TRUE. Your loserdom has nothing to do with these women.
the truth is women priced themselves out of the dating market.
NOT TRUE. They just said “no” to you when you came at them with your PUA bag of tricks.
Upon being MGTOW, I have been financially better off, I have been happier, I have more time to follow my passions in life other than chasing some egotistical self-made celebrity c**t.
Apparently one of these passions is posting bitter, woman-hating manifestos on the MGTOW subreddit.
Life is good for me now.
I don’t … actually believe you. This manifesto is pretty obviously not the work of a man enjoying the good life.
Not surprisingly, the regulars in the MGTOW subreddit disagree with me on this point, applauding shogunronin’s mini-manifesto and responding with mini-manifestos of their own.
2045_revolution laments how exploitative the current sexual marketplace is. Exploitative of men, that is. Sure, he admits,
Men may use women as wet holes attached to a uterus, but women use men as wallets and sources of high quality genetic material. It gets demoralizing. As a man, the best you can hope for is to be a strong and healthy host for a female parasite to latch onto. When you think of guys in their expensive clothes, expensive cars, etc just advertising how filled with resources they are to parasites, it loses its appeal.
Meanwhile, 2045_revolution complains, some women he thinks aren’t so hot are trying to date men he thinks are hotter!
Internet dating and the rise of PUA culture have created a generation of crap women who think they are amazing catches. It used to be that a woman who as a 6 knew she was a 6. Now the 4s and 5s think they are 8s because of all the validation they get from thirsty men.
How dare women have the gall to try to date men they find attractive!
People can ridicule MGTOW all they want, but the exodus is really just starting. I think there will be sociological consequences. In ten years there will be tons of angry MGTOW men and bitter, used up women who got kicked off the CC. A society full of angry, bitter women (many of whom will be single mothers) who chased a hypergamous fantasy and ended up feeling used and empty handed, and lots of angry, bitter MGTOW men who felt ignored and devalued is what we are looking at. Nobody will win.
And if single mothers think they can have 2045_revolution’s “beta bucks,” well, NUH-UH!
Just as there is not an infinite supply of male 9s and 10s willing to enter committed, monogamous relationships with female 5s, 6s and 7s, there is not an infinite suppply of gainfully employed male 6s and 7s willing to clean up these women’s messes as they push 40. I say this as a BB who has had a half dozen single mothers try to use him in the last few years.
A fellow calling himself cheaperautoinsurance puts the blame on “smartphones and social media” for “basically destroy[ing] american women,” presumably because so many dudes who want to have sex with them say nice things about their selfies and sometimes send them lovely photos of their penises.
For blackierobinsun2, though, the roots of our current situation are rather more basic:
Women f**ked up America when they wanted jobs
Most of these btches going to college only work for a couple of years to end up getting pregnant and not wanting to work again, stupid whore just wasted a college degree and stole a job opportunity from a man feeding his family
Such a tragedy that blackierobinsun2 is taking himself out of the marriage market. What a lovely husband and father he could be!
Let me say it again: If you’re going your own way, fellas, just freaking GO. Lead your own life however the hell you want, as long as you’re not hurting anyone else in the process. Just stop cluttering up the internet with your ridiculous rants.
@Oogly & Chiomara
Nighty nightsies. Don’t dream about gross gaslighting, and let’s hope it’s stopped by the time you wake up.
HAHAHAHA that’s hilarious. I don’t know why, but I keep thinking of dickbutts flying around xD
Someone who can draw should draw that.
Yes. A thousand times yes. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!
(Will they never grow out of the feminists want to kill all men thing? I mean, unless we do, i’d be glad to help, but Katie didn’t send me that memo yet, please bring me a copy in our next secret meaning. I will pay in period blood.)
no I really do respect the argumentation ethics you’ve demonstrated, I think you’re really one of the fairest on this thread, you mostly engaged my actual argument rather than throw a bunch of names – I respect it a lot
Hey Mick, a tip for clarity you can use. if you copy\paste what you want to reply to in the text box, you can then highlight it and click the “quote” button right above the text box. That will show us what you’re replying to. Alternately, you can just add the name.
Either way.
Oops. double comment. ignore. btw, in my last comment, I meant *secret meeting.
You show so much respect that you have constantly failed to rise to that standard of argumentation ethics. Hint : there’s a difference between throwing a bunch of words and debating. Especially when you don’t understand the meanings of said words. By the way, I’m adding “argumentation” and “ethics” to the list. You’re gonna have some homework to do if you wanna come back here with a solid argument.
Cool thanks
agreed, I didn’t really argue the case for mgtow very conclusively, it is just a theory I read on the internet, I don’t necessarily believe it really even
I suggest that you follow a few of that writer’s links. She ain’t no representative of feminism-as-most-feminists-see-it.
Personally, I find most of her views on most things I’ve seen her comment on uninformed or obnoxious or both.
Have you found any other such writer? Have you found any support for such a notion in the policies or pronouncements of feminist-oriented women’s organisations? What is the position of NOW on this? Have they ever proposed any such program?
Mick Dash:
I dunno, she sounds more like a PUA\MGTOW hero than a feminist. She’s all about the sexual marketplace. She wants men to have a higher SMV by default and have their choice of many many women all clamoring for their attention! Why it’s apocalypse all the MGTOWs dream of!
There was no culling involved with her theory. She just wanted to ensure more girl babies get born. That’s the real way to the MGTOW dream. No Sexbots needed.
Sally Miller Gearhart, PhD.
No, I don’t think NOW would ever take that position publicly – it would be disaster for them – they are not quite that radical
I won’t lie, I saw this coming from a mile away.
Now, can you please be serious about answering the question asked by mildlymagnificent ? Without, y’know, godwinning it ?
Who am I kidding. Not like you’ve been serious about anything since this started.
ETA : Forgot half my post there.
What did we say about the gaslighting again ?
Let me clarify. You can’t just waltz in here and mansplain our own positions about things. You say you don’t believe in rights ? Well here’s a right that you should not believe in : pretending to know what we believe in better than we do. That includes telling us that we want to cull the male population, and supporting that ridiculous claim with a few random name-drops – of people that you know jack-shit about, by the way, otherwise you wouldn’t name-drop them.
For every person you can quote, feminist or not, who says stuff like that, there’s a thousand who will tell you that it is not what feminism is about. Cherry-picking won’t work here. We’re fucking trained to spot that shit.
Good thing rights are a social construct or else you’d be dead long ago since the right to life is in the US Constitution and murder can get you 25 to life if you aren’t careful. I mean, I’m pretty nihilistic myself but I’m also aware that even if things aren’t real and don’t matter on a grand scale, they still effect things.
You go burn down a house, you’re likely to get charged with arsony and get jail time, no amount of arguing that rights and laws don’t exist isn’t going to stop that, and still affects you. You still left someone homeless, you still may have killed someone or a dog or something, there’s still an effect.
I mean, consider you being socially conditioned to think you’re, like, I dunno, a guy. All your life, people say you’re a man because you meet these imaginary criteria for what a man should be, but, like, gender isn’t real. It’s a social construct, like rights. What makes a man, a penis? Obviously not because I know plenty of men with penises, without penises and with undetermined genitals. Is it the chromosomes? Nope, because there’s men born with XY chromosomes, XX chromosomes, XXY chromosomes,, XXX, XXXXY, XYYY–that shit doesn’t matter, then, does it? And neither does having testosterone because you can be born with a penis and have XX chromosomes because half the reasons you have what people consider male genitals is because you got a lot of testosterone in the womb, or you can have XX chromosomes and get a lot of testosterone in the womb and still have what society considers female genitalia. Is a man the person who brings home the most money? Is a man someone who grows a beard? Someone who pays for the meal and movies? Someone who has testes? Is the man someone who pays the bill, the alimony, punches the other dude out first, takes the most beatings, doesn’t cry so matter how much they’d like to? People who aren’t men do all of those, too, so what is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets?
There is no definition of what a man is because the concept of being a man is a social construct. Maleness isn’t real. What society thinks is maleness is just a bunch of stupid criteria put together and reinforced to keep certain people down and in power by saying that they can’t do this because it doesn’t make them a man or if they do this it makes them a super macho man. It’s dumb, but even if the concept of being a man, woman, whatever, isn’t real, it still has and is affecting people and no amount of arguing on the internet is going to change that.
Handsome
Exactly that’s what i’ve been learning in Gender Studies gender is just a social construct but even my gender studies professor has called me “sir” twice – why – because society projects that gendered expectation onto me – i didnt chose it – i never asked anyone to regard me as a manly man – it’s just their own projected pre programmed reality
OK so feminists don’t all want to conspire to do gendercide on all men right?
@Diptych
Oh my God, I love this!
@Jack
TY so much for the Dexter GIF!
Feminists don’t conspire to gendercide men at all.
Did you, y’know, ask to not be called sir ? That tends to help. OH WAIT. You’re not in gender studies. So cut that shit.
*cleaning butcher knife*
Nope. Not. At all…
What? Feminists, especially the non gender materialists, are not against people calling other people “sir”, unless the person says they are not a male. Again you have no idea what you are talking about.
lol why is it so hard to believe I would be in Gender Studies class, it’s sociology of Gender textbook Men Women and society Maier 6th edition, but so far i have not bought it I have just kept real good lecture notes and got a perfect score on the first written assignment and a pretty good grade on the test so I think I can pull an A in this class – I have the sillibus right here because I’m trying to figure out my other class homework
AGAIN, it’s so hard to believe because everything you’ve said about gender studies has absolutely nothing to do with actual gender studies – it’s just classic MGTOW preconceptions. Trust me, we can tell. As I said earlier, we have a laugh about you idiots every other day. And unlike you, we have people here who actually know what gender studies are and what they’re talking about.
PRATT, again. Seriously. Cut that shit.
@masque d’etoiles
Aww. We missed you too. I’m quite enjoying my pancakes — and the ponies are adorbs!
lol I’m going to gender studies class in like 10 hours and I’m probably about to ace another quiz at it too – and I’m probably about to buy the book tommorrow too I got the sillibus right here and my class notes – the book is over a hundred bucks so I just wanted to make sure i was gonna stay with it before I bought the book – I am extremely serious about my gender studies
Because you’re full of shit, that’s why it’s so hard to believe. I actually thought you were being sarcastic in the beginning, that’s how hard it is to believe. But giving you the benefit of the doubt – maybe you are in the second day of class of a really shitty place? In a course you entered for very mysterious reasons? – buckle up, son. And start looking at other options, because you’ll want to leave very soon.
Yeah, that’s why I’m a feminist, particularly a intersectional feminist because one) feminism is trying to deconstruct gender roles so that way a person, if they so choose, can identify as a man and be a caregiver and not be thought lesser for doing something “feminine”, and a part of intersectional feminism is trans rights which is trying to help people who aren’t what gender society deemed them at birth, such as male or female, be recognized and be treated with respect. (There’s also gay, racial, disability, etc. rights as well but I’m not going to turn this into an essay.)
For instance, if trans rights were more respected, you could tell your professor may have used a neutral form of address instead of “sir”, and after you divulged your gender, if you have one, then they could call you “sir”, “ma’am”, whatever you may want to addressed as.
Of course, you’re a MGTOW, and many MGTOW don’t care about breaking down gender roles or trans rights. They want to enforce that REAL men do certain things. They demean other men for not following what they think a real man is, they don’t respect the rights of trans men and people without gender because they think that only a narrow mold is worthy of being called an actual man. They demean women and feminism because they think, just because it’s related to women, it’s something they shouldn’t be apart of because somehow it makes men lesser.
And, of course, you also don’t think rights are real, so, honestly, I don’t know why you even care if your professor calls you sir or not based on what society perceives you are. Since you think rights aren’t real, you do not think trans rights are real, so you obviously don’t believe your professor should use something other than “sire” since rights, and thus trans rights, aren’t real and don’t matter. People can call you sir no matter how much you hate it because you don’t have the right to correct them, even though if you did believe in trans rights, you would gain the right to have them respect what you’d like to be called because it is a basic human right to be treated with respect.
Which is a huge part of feminism, basic human respect.
But your own belief in a lack of rights means you don’t have the right to choose what people call you, that you pretty much forfeit respect.
Maybe you should do some critical thinking and research before you start blindly believing in a philosophy, you dumbass.
@Mick Dash
So when you’re not in class or studying or volunteering with the War Resisters League, you’re working with a group that educates men not to rape, right?
… yeah, see, that’s why we’re saying you’ve never set foot in a university.
ETA :
@Chiomara
I think he’s getting his classes on the back of cereal boxes. Either that, or Trump University actually never closed down.