Ever since the execrable Roosh Valizadeh decided he’d rather be a patriarch than a pickup artist, he and the writers on his Return of Kings garbage site have been singing the praises of traditional religion.
Not so much for them, or for the male readers of his site, very few of whom seem to be religious, but for women and girls. In Roosh’s fantasy world, you see, traditional religion means more hot young virgins for him.
But how does the aspiring patriarch choose what religion to pretend to believe in order to score himself a virginal wife who will probably cook dinner for him and wash his fetid socks?
Enter regular Return of Kings contributor Max Roscoe with a new series promising to answer that important question. Roscoe, who previously wrote about his failed attempts to pick up chicks at what he decided was a too-liberal church retreat, has generously agreed to attend services of three relatively conservative faiths in order to scope out hot virgin chicks for the benefit of Return of Kings readers.
First up, the Mormons.
Roscoe starts off with some general impressions of Mormons:
Mormons are extremely family oriented. They are very clean, and often talk like Ned Flanders.
Then, after describing a rather uneventful visit to a local Mormon ward, Roscoe offers his assessment of the pros and cons of the religion. He praises Mormonism for being, among other things, a “very patriarchal” religion that is “nominally Christian [and] moderately accepted in [the] West,” then rattles off a slightly longer list of cons, including
- Dubious beliefs
- Prohibitions on alcohol, caffeine, and other intoxicants …
- Probably the most hostile to the ideas of “game”
He’s also not impressed with the Morman church’s renunciation of plural marriage, which causes him to “wonder if they will not cave to demands of the corrupt outside world at some point.”
While Roscoe himself isn’t too keen on becoming a Mormon, he sees some hope that the religion could help Return of Kings readers in their search for virgins.
Sure, you might get stuck playing a lot “of board games and bible trivia [and] hanging out with the extended church family.” And you’ll have to stop banging sluts. Oh, and you’ll probably have to actually become a Mormon yourself.
“But the payoff,” he happily concludes,
is an extremely submissive wife who knows that her eternal salvation depends on fulfilling her motherly and wifely duties so that one day you can have endless celestial sex among the gods. Expect a Mormon girl to barely know what a penis or vagina is, but to do anything that her Priesthood holder (you) tells her. … the only single women I saw were in middle or high school.
I would make a joke here but honestly I feel a bit ill.
Uh, ok. He wants you to start the fund. In secret. I’m not an especially optimistic person, but it feels to me like he doesn’t really want to change, at least not much. At the same time, though, he cares enough that he doesn’t want you to be hurt, so you should have an escape hatch.
Having some space is probably the best thing. If you have to move in with other people while you figure out how to get a solo life together, do it. It doesn’t necessarily mean cutting contact with him completely, and it sounds like you don’t want to, but you need space to look at yourself and think about what you want in a relationship too.
Yeah, definitely a little personal space.
All my best wishes, LG and snorkmaiden. Please let me know if I can help in any way.
@snork maiden
I almost overlooked what you said about yourself. I hope that your situation improves soon.
Best wishes.
@LG and snorkmaiden: I’m sorry you’re going through this. I hope you stay safe and are able to be happy.
Um, I know this is another godawful, exploitative, “field report” from these arses. But is it wrong to wonder about where the next installment might take them, and what they might “learn”?
Whose deeply held beliefs and cherished communities will they next try to game?
At the same time, I wouldn’t wish interaction with Rooshies on anyone at all. And it’s utterly awful that they’re considering infilitrating communities to find abuse targets.
Yeah, I gave that the side-eye too, but then thought that maybe LG meant that he just doesn’t want to know where the FOF is. LG can correct me if I’m wrong about this, but it sounded like an arrangement where LG has access to the funds and he doesn’t.
That sounds okay? Except that it operates under the paradigm that he just can’t control himself, so the FOF needs to be somewhere he can’t find it. Of course he can control himself. If he couldn’t he would be in jail for assaulting strangers on the street.
@LG, I’m so sorry you’re going through this. The context of your post suggest you’re a woman, so I’ll assume that (apologies and please correct me if I’m wrong). I know exactly what you mean about fearing the loss of identity. When you’ve established your self-image as half of a couple, it’s very difficult to know where We stops and I begins. When I lost my husband even things as minor as what condiments to keep in the fridge had to be rethought. At a time of major stress the last thing you need is to be standing in a supermarket having an existential crisis over whether or not you want a jar of mayonnaise, but that’s exactly what happens.
I also understand how difficult managing other people’s reactions to relationship issues is. Everybody likes to see happy, healthy relationships. It can be a blow to find out a “perfect couple” are having problems. Some people deal with this by denial. They’ll try to convince (usually) the woman that the problems aren’t actually that bad, because if you would stop trying to deal with your relationship issues like a damn adult or something, they could pretend everything is fine and be happy with their fantasy. The hell with that. Your relationship exists for your happiness first, and your partner’s happiness second. As you don’t have children, no one else gets a vote. Install a mental “dismiss” button for these arseholes.
I honestly think the most important thing you can do is talk to a professional. You’ve given us a broad outline of your situation, but there will be all kinds of nuances and particulars that affect what is the best solution for you as an individual. It’s analogous to a physical health issue. If you have something minor and self-limiting, like a cold, taking general and unqualified advice from strangers on the internet is pretty harmless. If it’s something more serious you take that shit to a doctor and get advice from qualified experts with knowledge of your particular needs.
Dealing with relationship issues is difficult and painful and life-changing, but eventually worth it. Whether your relationship can be saved or whether it ends, you can go on to have a rich and fulfilling life free from your current unhappiness. My marriage ended with my late husband taking his own life, after I’d told him I would leave him unless he sought treatment for his mental health and substance abuse issues. I’d thought long and hard about my options and the likely consequences of each. I knew that there was a very good chance he would self-harm if I threatened to end the relationship. But I decided that the physical, mental and emotional safety of myself and my children was more important. He was a grown adult with options; he would make his own choices. I could offer support but I couldn’t save him. I made peace with that knowledge and never felt any remorse or guilt over his death. When all options are painful, choose the one most likely to give you good long-term consequences, and charge into the fire waving your axe and yelling incoherently.
It was a brutal time for myself and the kids, but we won through. Today all of us are happy, healthy successful adults who are far better off than we would have been if I hadn’t given that ultimatum. I’m telling you this to show you it’s possible to come through the anguish of a relationship ending. The pain will heal eventually; if it still hurts, that just means you’re still early in the healing process.
I’m really sorry you’re going through such pain, and I really hope you make it to the best solution with the minimum possible drama. Good luck and god bless.
@ LG & Snorkmaiden
Other people here are in a much better position to offer practical advice so all I’ll say is you have my sympathies. Hope things work out for both of you.
@richardbillericay
It’s interesting to see that phrase come up again this week, ‘pity sex’. I didn’t know that was actually a thing.
I had an old friend from uni stay with me last week, and we were talking about a girl we both knew, she actually used to house share with me and she was a pain in the backside. She was a catholic, and came from a well to do background, she came from Cheltenham Ladies College which is a very upper class private (UK public) school. She had sex with several men that I knew about, simply because she felt sorry for them, including a guy who was sleeping rough. She had some pretty odd ideas about ‘the working class’ who she was very prejudiced against, but it didn’t stop her for doing a bit of ‘charity work’. She pissed off another friend of mine by visiting his house late at night after she heard his wife had left him, to give him a bit of ‘company’, obviously he was very offended and disgusted by her and chucked her out. I wonder if there was any chance she was influenced by this Children of God thing?! This was in the mid 2000’s in the south of England.
Maybe all he knows about Mormonism is the Lifetime movie based on Warren Jeffs ‘Outlaw Prophet’. It’s pretty queasy stuff. But he did manage to get himself on the FBI’s most wanted list in 1996. I suppose that’s kind of glamorous.
Actually, I left it too late to edit, but there should be a TRIGGER WARNING for the movie I posted. Sorry about that.
LG said
This might say more about me than him but this twanged a discordant note in my brain for some reason. Like maybe it would be convenient to get at a bunch of cash easily if it could be located? Hope not, but being a bit paranoid in a situation like this couldn’t hurt.
If possible, I’d start an account at a separate bank or credit union, plus a small cash stash at a friend’s.
In any case, I always keep a couple hundred in cash in a locked filing cabinet drawer along with my vital paperwork packed in a grabbable bag just in case we have to bug out quickly (SoCal fire zone, don’t ya know; we were within 20 miles of the recent Blue Cut fire.)
@Tosca
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I’m glad you didn’t blame yourself. I blamed myself for my abusive partner’s death (his was cancer) and he constantly threatened self-harm which was one of the only reasons we were still together when he got the cancer diagnosis. It’s easy to take advantage of me if I care about you. :/
That was 9 years ago and can still sometimes affect me. Just last night I got weepy watching a movie. But I’m 10000% better than I was back then, and I’m so glad I got a chance to figure out who I was (I totally get emotional battles over condiments even if mine were over things like movies).
I also agree that LG should see a therapist if able, though I understand how incredibly difficult that can be.
Hugs and solidarity to all the unhappily married readers here, and nthing the advice to set aside an escape fund — basically, savings that no one but you knows about and can touch (and then, only in the direst emergency). Since money (or the lack of it) is what tends to hold shitty relationships together long after love is history, it’s always good to have a bit of it to tide you over while you transition to singledom again.
Onwards and, er…well, NOT upwards:
Well, diddly dang doodle, whatever gave him that impression? If all you know about them comes from watching The Simpsons, you’d best start, you know, actually attending church with ’em.
Well, PUAs have dubious beliefs, too…and I can honestly forgive the Mormons their prohibitions, seeing as these help them dodge a number of bullets, including those of “game”. If I had to pick between the two, Mormons would win. By a mile.
Well, it WAS a condition of statehood for Utah back in the 1890s, so yeah. Bummer, dude. I don’t think they’ll be reversing it just so you can get lucky.
And I don’t think the FLDS and other related fundie-Mormon splinter cults would take kindly to a strange male (who reeks of Axe and unwashed socks, no doubt) trying to break in and amass himself a harem, either. They’re actually constantly kicking out excess males. The streets of various cities out west have a remarkable number of ex-fundie-Mormon boys living homeless on them because the patriarchs and their cronies don’t want competition for the pick of the barely-adolescent girls. “Family-oriented” only goes so far with that bunch, and they’re downright hostile to strangers.
Uh, what’s Brigham Young University…chopped liver? There are plenty of single women there. In fact, many of them go just so they can find a husband. And it may surprise him, also, to learn that Mormon wives are NOT totally submissive, and even have opinions of their own…and a goodly number will try to get out of bad marriages in spite of whatever stumbling blocks the church lays in their path. Read Deborah Laake’s book, Secret Ceremonies, and you will know. She was a Mormon who got divorced after marrying the wrong guy for the wrong reason (just to have sex, which turned out to be a hideous disaster — yeah, so much for no knowledge of penises or vaginas.)
But something tells me that this guy would only get turfed out of the tribe long before he’d ever get to call himself a “priesthood holder”, so I’m not sure why he’d even contemplate this path. He seems to think their standards of admission are as lax and sloppy as the pickup fraternity’s.
He’s in for one helluva shock.
I’ve been listening to a podcast on the history of the Mormon Church (seriously, it’s fascinating) and these dudes do not have the charisma to pull off Joseph Smith type shit.
Really?? Who thunk it?
So is he going to take his entire back catalogue of rapey ‘Bang [the world]’ books to the pulping factory?
Or will the New Patriarchs/New White Knights (like the old ones!) be allowed numerous philandering ‘indiscretions’ because ‘boys will be boys‘ and ‘a man has to sow his wild oaths‘? Aka, ‘a man has needs‘…
For all his new ‘family values’ stance it’s hard to see how Rootepetoot wouldn’t be willing to sell his own grannie down the river for fistful of dollars. It can’t be easy trying to make a living from crap books/adverts on a crap site.
I have a hunch that Doosh writes these fantasies one handed and his fans read read them the same way.
He’s gone from telling men to counterfeit everything about themselves in order to win a sexes from women to telling them to counterfeit everything about themselves to win a lifetime of servitude from one woman.
It’s like he’s upping the promised pay off to keep viewers interested. Nothing about his advice is feasable. He’s so transparent.
He’s never been married. Has he even been seen anywhere near women who aren’t tossing beer on his wig? How would anyone mistake him for a relationship / hook-up guru?
I don’t think anyone does. I think his fans like his fiction because it’s spank bank fodder.
Not one of them is going to run out to join the LDS. Neither is Doosh. So, why else does he write it and why else would they enjoy reading it?
He’s colorful in his descriptions of degrading, abusing and controlling women for a reason.
It’s what his fans tune in for. He doesn’t need to make sense. Thats not why he has fans.
@Lea
Great now that you made me think of his work as stuff from literotica, now it comes off as bad ERP.
Thanks, everyone, for weighing in. Tosca, thanks to you especially for making some of that identity stuff not seem so scary.
I really am looking to better understand what those few abusers look like when they do change. I’ve got a pretty good working knowledge of abuse dynamics, but I definitely didn’t have that when I started this relationship. It’s taken me a while to really understand and face that some of those issues are at play here; I’ve pretty majorly idealized this guy because he was my escape from much worse, in the form of a toxic and violent family headed by a toxic and violent father.
Meanwhile, Mr. LG’s family background is that his mother was also severely violently abused, but not by my father-in-law, by her first husband. I don’t know of any threatening or not-respectful-of-enthusiastic-consent behaviors on the part of my FIL, but his son has definitely inherited his tendency to take advantage of a “pre-abused” wife who will do more than her share, not advocate for herself, and internalize a lack of reciprocated respect.
The threatening behaviors are very few and far between and have always come as his reaction to me saying anything about the possibility of leaving him. In the past, I’ve been cowed when this happens and gone straight into reconciliation mode. Today, I mustered up some courage, considered starting to make a plan to leave in secret, but decided I’d give him one more chance. I told him that I love him and don’t want to leave, but I’m not happy and not respected, and also, it was scary to have to tell him this because of how he’s reacted to me talking about leaving before.
He looked flabbergasted and angry, but he behaved himself. He went on a two hour walk (after my insistence that he take some time alone to process this), and when he got back the first thing he told me was that I should get the FOF together and do whatever I needed to be able to feel ready to leave at any time, because he wants to be sure that I won’t be backing down from this (and no, I don’t fear any financial exploitation, things are pretty healthy between us as far as money goes).
We spent the rest of the day talking, and so far, he’s been exceeding expectations. I feel relief like I can’t believe. It’s just, all the literature on abuse is about what it looks like when things *don’t* get better, all the ways abusers find to *not* change. What is it like when they do?
@LG, I have no idea what your partner’s financial situation is, but it seems to me that if he thinks you might find such a fund necessary because of his potential failure to overcome his flaws, perhaps he should be contributing towards its existence at least as much as you are? I am not suggesting giving him access to the account, obviously that defeats the whole purpose, but if he gave you a little bit of cash each week to put towards it, that seems only right to me.
<3 love to LG and Tosca and snork maiden; you all deserve the best. I have no advice, just good wishes for you and everyone else.
dontgiveahoot – we just have one joint account, I manage the money and he earns more in a week than I do in a month. It’s his intent that I just take from there, so it’d mostly be money he earned.
I really don’t think I think I will. We’re pretty poor so there isn’t really money for it. If I need to leave I could just call my sister or my boyfriend (we’re poly) and be out of here in minutes. The rest, I could take care of after.
I think he’s freaking out and doesn’t trust himself.
My condolences LG. That’s a terrible situation and I wish you the best.
LG, I strongly advise you to take the money he offered you. If you decide to leave, and you really don’t need it or feel you deserve it, you can return it to him on your way out. If you do need it, you’ll have it.
If things work out and you decide to stay, then your personal escape fund becomes your shared emergency fund.
Better to have it and not need it.
@LG
This might help:
http://www.ivsha.org/get-help-with-abuse/domestic-violence/assess-abusers-claims-change/