The assault on the world’s beleaguered male majority continues, at least in the tiny minds of the readers of lady-hating internet garbage fire Return of Kings. The latest insult to all that is male and good?
Regular RoK contributor David G. Brown answers that question loudly and clearly in the title of a recent post:
His evidence? Two non-white women he doesn’t think are super hot won state-level contests in the Miss America and Miss World pageants: Magnolia Maymuru, an Aboriginal woman who won the title of Miss Northern Territory, Australia in the Miss World pageant; and Arianna Quan, a Chinese-American woman who won the Miss Michigan title in the Miss America pageant.
As Brown sees it, both of these “winners’ (he puts the words in quotes)
are so unbelievably plain and even ugly that the “beauty” in beauty pageant should have been removed from the contests they each entered.
Actually, for what its worth, the Miss America pageant already has removed the word “beauty,” famously referring to itself as a “scholarship contest,” while Miss World likes to talk about “beauty with a purpose” and the charity programs their contestants support. But most people think of them as beauty contests because, well, that’s basically what they are.
The real point here is that Brown is complaining that these pageants, to some limited degree at least, reflect the diversity of the real world, a complaint that seems especially ironic when applied to the Miss World pageant, given that every single country in the world contains some portion of people who are not white, and that in many countries these “minorities,” as Brown calls them, are actually, you know, the majority. Shocking, I know. While the Miss World pageant started off with all-white winners, it has awarded numerous women of color the crown since the 1960s.
Racists may think of the US and Australia as “white countries,” in which white men should have a lock on political and industrial power and white women should have a similar lock on beauty pageant crowns, but the world is a bit more complicated than that.
Nearly a third of those living in Australia’s Northern Territory are indigenous Australian people. Meanwhile, there are 18 million Asian-Americans living in the US, nearly 6% of the total population. God forbid one of them win a pageant title once in a while.
Now, to be fair, Brown’s complaint isn’t that women of color have been winning beauty contests; it’s that “ugly” women of color have been winning beauty pageant titles. So how exactly does he determine “ugliness?”
On the street, neither of these girls is going to turn heads. Another test, whether women would want to look like them or straight men would want them, would also result in very few takers.
Has he done some sort of scientific poll to test either of these propositions? Nah. He’s just taking his own preferences and projecting them onto the world around him.
Brown insists that he’s not being racist, because, as it turns out, some Chinese people think Quan is ugly, too! An article on Shanghaist (discussed in a Roosh V forum thread I couldn’t bring myself to read) reports that “the reaction from Chinese netizens [to Quan’s crowning] has been overwhelmingly negative with many writing in to criticize her looks.”
Brown is quick to use these Chinese critics as, yes, a shield to protect himself from accusations of bigotry. “In the case of Quan, the biggest criticisms came from her ancestral homeland of China,” he writes.
Chinese netizens need not fear the kind of racism accusations that would be leveled at white Americans questioning whether she deserved the Miss America title for one of America’s most populous states … .
But from the comments Shanghaist quotes it’s clear that the issue isn’t Quan’s deviance from some universal Platonic ideal of beauty; it’s that she looks too “American.”
“She’s ugly AND she isn’t Chinese,” one Chinese commenter wrote of Quan, who was born in Beijing. “This is probably the American standard of beauty,” wrote another. “She looks exactly like Mulan in Disney.”
Yep. Chinese people can be parochial bigots, too.
As for Maymuru, Brown is convinced that political correctness is cowing potential critics into silence.
Media coverage of Maymuru’s crowning was ecstatic, namely because, in the words of many racial quota-leaning commenters, “it was about time” that an Aboriginal Australian won such a title. Few online respondents dared to call her unattractive due to the near certainty of them being labeled as racist bigots.
Brown has no need to worry on this front. The author of such lovely previous posts as 3 Reasons I Will Never Apologize For Being White, Only White Countries Are Expected To Let In Hordes Of Illegal Migrants, Why Isn’t Anyone In The Establishment Talking About Jewish And Asian Privilege? and The New Star Wars Movie Spinoff Reaffirms Disney’s Hatred Of White Males has already made pretty clear how he should be labeled.
Oh and off-topic, but Trump has hired a Breitbart exec to his campaign. Looks like more of the same, but worse: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/17/donald-trump-stephen-bannon-breitbart-news-kellyanne-conway
My ex reads Breitbart and recently his cousin told him off for over-sharing Breitbart stories on FB. Made me smile.
All joking aside, I think that people like him, and like the RoK crowd, have a concept of beauty that’s about value rather than aesthetics. If personal taste, or various cultural ideals of beauty can be seen as important, (let alone, God forbid, qualities of a woman such as charm or character), then it’s impossible to assign a woman the precise number that defines her value, and therefore that of the man who can have sex with her.
As a result, they have to believe in an absolute standard of beauty, and feel incredibly threatened by the idea that it’s not real. Because female beauty is a currency to them. Saying that, say, a chubby black woman can be just as beautiful as a skinny white blond woman sounds to them as though you’re saying that the one-dollar bills can be just as valuable as the twenties. And that’s threatening, because a statement like that undermines the value they think they themselves have accrued by having sex with, or just objectifying, X number of skinny white natural blondes.
They don’t care about beauty, they care about what it’s worth to them in social status bucks.
@Ohlmann
Exactly – and furthermore, each of them expects the particular woman they want to be open to casual sex with him, and only him. They hate women for being sluts, so they want virgins… but who wants to imagine their disdain when they discover that the woman has no idea how to be a skilled lover and might not even know how to satisfy herself, let alone him. Their demands are a series of impossible and often mutually exclusive hoops that women have to jump through just to be considered vaguely worthy of respect.
Maybe youse lot can help me – this thread has reminded me of a photo I know I have seen ages ago – I suspect probably a well-known one/by a well-known photographer/of a well-known woman bodybuilder. I can’t find it (and after a quick attempt at searching most of the search results I’m getting are, well, emphatically not what I’m looking for). So just in case it rings any bells and someone can point me towards it, here’s a description:
outdoor shot (possibly overlooking a city???? not sure), black and white, woman bodybuilder with her back to the camera, flexing back muscles and biceps and (possibly, iirc) with her weight on the right foot, flexing some of the muscles in the left leg.
This would be an old photo (as in, maybe 30-odd years old now? Maybe more) and I think it was one of a series. I remember thinking at the time that I liked it because it was all about the subject’s worked-for physical strength and because the pose is not a titillating one; I’m not quite sure, tbh, but I think I probably still like it.
Anyone recognise that, by any chance?
Ambiguity intolerance is a thing. It’s why douchebros think feminists want to make it illegal for men to ever talk to women they don’t know. If we don’t like it in X context, we must not like it in any context. Gamergaters can’t brain that someone can like a game and also be critical of some aspects of it. Creationists will often observe that science doesn’t know XYZ as if that should turn an atheist’s world upside down because they value being able to claim certainty above understanding how things actually work.
Also wanted to make a general observation: responding to some form of “this person is ugly/fat/a virgin/other vacuous insult” with “no they’re not” is pretty much never appropriate. It implicitly concedes that “this person is ugly/fat/a virgin/other vacuous insult” is a reasonable argument which is worthy of being refuted.
EJ (The Other One):
This is so toxic to online discussion, and I honestly can’t understand why it’s so prevalent. How do you reach adulthood without understanding the difference between objective fact and subjective opinion?
Kat:
It is, but it’s also a term of affection for a particular make of car. Do a google image search for “moggie traveller”, and you’ll see what I drive.
@ moggie
“Hey, Mr Issigonis we appear to have accidentally ordered a load of timber”
“Leave it with me”
Hmmph. Alan, I’ll have you know that I’ve had many people praise my woody.
Hello.
Are you meaning that they were not contests to designate women to satisfy Mr Brown (and for a white supremacist, that is a terrible name) boner ?
Damn ! And there was me expecting another contest to satisfy my own boner, that i would have called Miss Universal Twin Tails.
Saracsms apart, tastes and colors come in so many flavors… Do they really expect that their own tastes represent the tastes of the whole cis-men ?
Have a nice day.
@dlouwe:
Noted, thanks.
@abars01
See also Denial, about David Irving suing Deborah Lipstadt for libel, because she called him a holocaust denier. I was vaguely aware of the case but comment and a link here (I think from Alan, thanks Alan) led me to read the judgement (well, some of it – I skipped a lot of the Irving justifications because, well, you would, wouldn’t you?) and it’s fascinating (sorry, history nerd here).
The IMDB page already has some comments, the majority of which are in a thread (which I haven’t read, so it may be complaining about the lack of unicorns and puppies in the film, but I doubt it) called something along the lines of “Can Hollywood be expected to make an unbiased movie?”. Shudder.
And see also Professor Richard Evans’s book Telling Lies About Hitler, a forensic demolition of Irving’s pretensions to be a serious historian. This arose from the research that Evans and a couple of PhD students did for the defence in the Lipstadt libel case – in a nutshell, they trawled through Irving’s output and fact-checked everything, discovering in the process that he was a habitual misquoter, mistranslator and remover/distorter of crucial original context.
It’s one of the most brutally sustained smackdowns I’ve ever read – but an important one, since Irving had amassed a considerable (if, we now know, undeserved) reputation for turning up “evidence” that nobody else seemed able to match.
I’m glad that the beauty pageant scene are finally recongnising women who are natural not enhanced. I don’t like to speak for others, but I really do not know why people would undergo extreme surgeries to not even come out a beautiful. Pixee Fox had six ribs removed to achieve this look.
@ moggie
🙂
Anyway I can’t speak; I’m a Land Rover nerd.
I’m also far from convinced that pageants are no longer primarily about ‘swimsuits, bums and boobs’ and that the women who win them deserve it because they worked hard for it.
An Al Jazeera doc called ‘The Slum’ set in the Philippines showed that for the extremely poor, pageants/ballet was one of the few options open to attractive girls. For the boys some martial arts was the main road to try and lift oneself out of poverty.
Needless to say in that game there were mostly losers and the main winners the event promoters themselves of course, thereby perpetuating the systemic inequality that society toils under.
Man’s capacity to grade other human beings superficial qualities and his ability to make money from that seems near-infinite.
@Gert : did you ever have been in contact with the insane amount of effort needed to win a contest about “swimsuits, bums, and boobs’ ?
Thoses are absolutely and terribly sexist. But they aren’t by any mean easy to win, nor just due to dumb luck. I can see for the one who willingly entered that industry an objection that they poured insane efforts in something stupid, but as far as I can tell, most are here because their parents decided for them.
I guess they have it a bit better than gymnasts, but still.
@ Virgin Mary
This is a bit depressing. I think your nice IOW Momentum group needs to bump people like this out of the party.Talk about victim blaming.
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/08/16/panic-room-is-installed-at-office-by-mouthy-labour-mp-whos-paying/#comment-85130
@sevenofmine: “It implicitly concedes that “this person is ugly/fat/a virgin/other vacuous insult” is a reasonable argument which is worthy of being refuted.”
I think this is the rare case where it does make sense, because they were called ugly as part of a claim that they shouldn’t have won a beauty pageant.
@virgin mary: I’m immediately skeptical of “rib removal” stories. That’s one of those things that crops up again and again, usually as part of an accusation of vanity.
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/vanities/ribs.asp
@Moggie
That looks like a very sturdy, roomy car. I want a Moggie Traveller!
@ rrh
You might want to avoid Chapter 2 of Genesis then. 🙂
@alan
I’m not sure who it is you want removed from the party, this outspoken MP, or the writer of the article?
@ Virgin Mary
The writer and his ilk. That bit about this being “entirely the result of her own actions” sticks in the craw.
@alan
I do not know who the writer is, and he very likely is not even a member of the party. He sounds like a conspiracy theorist to me, one of the alt right Alex Jones types.
@ Virgin Mary
Yeah, he’s certainly a wanker.
Re: ribs – Alan, you never fail to make me laugh. Brilliant.
@EJ
I’ve noticed that too. It feeds into their obsessive need to rank people in a hierarchy. They want everyone to know their place, and to stay in that place. In order to do that, they have to pretend there’s some objective, numeric way of comparing people (HB scale for women and pencils, income and bench press max for men, binary gender designations for everybody), and then act as if their opinion is the final ruling on the matter.
I just love the prolific graphs and charts. “This 3-D pie chart mathematically proves that Tiffany will turn 25 one day. And then she’ll be sorry she turned me down in 10th grade!”
It’s fun watching them freak out whenever their carefully arranged ranking system gets upended by some renegade who didn’t know they were supposed to be less than. That seems to happen a lot. It’s almost as if humans can’t be permanently assigned to one single brick on a pyramid.