Categories
alpha asshole cock carousel alpha males antifeminism men who should not ever be with women ever MGTOW misogyny PUA return of kings vaginas

MGTOWs and PUAs agree that women suck, disagree whether MGTOWs or PUAs are biggest losers

The manbaby battle continues
The manbaby battle continues

Watching self-proclaimed pickup artists and Men Going Their Own Way going at each other is vaguely reminiscent of watching Trotskyist sects fight it out over the precise lessons that true revolutionaries should draw from the Russian Revolution.

The fact that, in both Trot-fights and in the interminable online squabbles between PUAs and MGTOW, combatants agree on almost everything only seems to make them madder about the things they disagree about. Freud famously called this phenomenon “the narcissism of small differences.”

The latest skirmish between the forces of pickup artistry and MGTOW-ism was inspired by a Return of Kings post, published earlier this month, declaring MGTOWs to be a bunch of bitter whiners jealous of PUAs’ success with women,

RoK contributor Corey Savage acknowledges plainly that PUAs and MGTOWs aren’t really all that different at all.

All things considered, MGTOW, ROK, and other men’s groups have more things in common than the differences. We all recognize the disease that is feminism and we are all faced with the new realities that modern society has to offer for men.

But despite having basically the right — horrifically negative — views on women and feminists, Savage complains, MGTOWs are … a bunch of pussies.

MGTOW may have started with the right intent of defying the gynocentric system that exploits men, but it has quickly turned into a congregation of young men who come together to validate each other’s bitterness and frustration. … 

I can somewhat accept bitchy behavior from feminists as they’re women, but to watch these “men” throw a hissy fit over articles on attracting women or becoming a better man (none of which they were forced to read) is both hilarious and cringeworthy at the same time.

In the comments, assorted RoK readers suggested that most MGTOWs are such pathetic losers that their much ballyhooed boycott of the sexual marketplace won’t even register with most women.

As someone called Ainigmaris put it,

The worst aspect of MGTOW that I have seen is the asserted belief that men withdrawing from the sexual marketplace to go their own way will somehow force change in women over time. That is so naïve, petulant and utterly blue pill, it is laughable. …

Unless you are getting the top 20% of males to MGTOW, women won’t even *notice* you have left the sexual marketplace.

Ainigmaris finished up with some thoughts on vaginas.

Also, there are legions of blue pills who will never abandon the quest for the Holy Vag. Women will continue riding the carousel until their loins are so epically stretched out that they slide right off and tumble into some stalwart blue pill White Knight waiting to hoist their pulped roast beef snatches up onto the highest of pedestals.

Philosoraptor41, meanwhile, suggested that MGTOW is little more than a “a cop-out/denial mechanism” for guys no women want.

[I]f someone such as the comic book guy from the Simpsons goes MGTOW, then it’s a cop-out on their part.

Why? It’s very easy to say “screw game and self improvement” if someone hasn’t ever succeeded.

The MGTOWs didn’t take these insults lying down. As MGTOW defender Matthiu Ryin sees it, it is the PUAs who are the true simp manginas (probably).

Are you f*cking kidding? Mgtow is populated by highly successful men who’ve had their lives ruined in divorce court. What exactly are you bringing to the table with any of this bullsh*t anyway? … No all you’re really doing is mocking and that’s what women do.. I mean you might just be a simp mangina too its pretty hard to tell the difference online … you haven’t addressed any of the issues mgtow addresses all you did was try to infantalize the entire movement. I think your website might be run by women.. just a thought.

In a followup comment, Matthiu insisted that the MGTOW reverse-Lysistrata maneuver is the only way to truly put the ladies in their place:

Why do women act the way they do now? Because of the way men act and let them get away with it. If we stand up as men they will have to change whether it’s logical or emotional or whatever. We’re supposed to be the ones setting the precedent anyway and somehow we’ve lost it and started giving women a voice and it’s infecting our minds to where we think a woman’s point of view is more valid than our own.

Enlishbob suggested that perhaps Matthiu was a teensy bit jealous:

You can’t get laid. So you pretend that you don’t want to get laid.

Matthiu in turn accused Englishbob of being “pussy whipped and controlled” by women and their hypnotic vagina powers.

Omg the you can’t get laid card.. please dude.. you’re showing your hand that you totally use pussy for validation.. and so you are pussy whipped and controlled. … You’re putting pussy on a pedestal and worshipping it for self validation and eventually when it gets pregnant you’ll just get mopped up in court and maybe even go to jail over it.

When “it” gets pregnant?

You put up with women’s head games and maybe are even a little bit of a bitch around women. … our whole society has been under mind control in the media for a long time to turn women into nasty people and make men subservient to them. … You have this vision of yourself as a man who does this and that woo woo but the reality is you just pick up after your women and they sit back and collect your money.

And so on and so on and so on.

This sort of internecine warfare amongst the internet’s biggest misogynists is such a pleasure to behold. Whoever “wins” this round in this interminable argument, we can rest assured that all the combatants are total and utter losers.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

84 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@David

The last word should be “losers.” Another terrific article!

Latte Cat
Latte Cat
4 years ago

A genuine pleasure to see two of the most moronic, sad groups of people on the internet eat each other. What they don’t realise (or maybe they do?) is that they’re essentially the same thing, two sides of one coin. One is based on “game” and getting women, the other is based on avoiding women entirely. But both exist because of the exact same misogynistic ideas, a way to look at it is they’re both different reactions to the same thing.
That’s why them fighting is so perfect to sit back and watch, because they really are the same thing and they probably don’t even realise it. That’s why I always think it’s reasonable to talk about MRAs, PUAs and MGTOWs in the same context.

Vanir85
Vanir85
4 years ago

“You’re like WOMAN!”

“Nu-uh, YOU’RE like a woman!”

Dudedumbasses. You’re all wrong. None of you are like a woman.

And you all suck.

Also. Apparently women being “allowed” a voice (i.e. their voice not being forced away from them) is somehow infectious? Well, I guess it could be; if you consider the capacity for empathy a *disease*…

*Sigh*. The douchiness of drab despicable dudebros make deriding their decisively dumb dick-fights, difficult.

BritterSweet
4 years ago

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

EJ (The Other One) - on Holiday

Omg the you can’t get laid card.. please dude.. you’re showing your hand that you totally use pussy for validation..

So close! So close, and yet somehow they fail to achieve either self-awareness or a three-dot ellipsis.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

I can’t decide which type of manospherian is the most admirable:

MGTOW — the guy who swears a vow to go his own way but is always in our faces. The gentleman who slanders women and gets into arguments with other MGTOWs about whose (nonexistent) hobbies are the most kickass.

MRA — the individual who bands with his fellow woman-haters to praise Paul Elam, a man who has never married but has three ex-wives and a few children who used to be his too. The person who finds Paul profound when he misuses big words and edgy when he disparages the genitals of female reporters who, well, report on him.

PUA — the gentleman whose highest ambition is to catch the attention of a girl who scores an 8 to 10 on his babe-o-meter and disparage her with negative remarks that cause her to tumble into bed with him, after which he dumps her.

David
4 years ago

It’s so weird, the way that they always use two dots in an ellipsis. (Maybe they want to stay away from periods?) And the lack of awareness in having this slap-fight while calling women childish is incredible.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
4 years ago

Women will continue riding the carousel until their loins are so epically stretched out that they slide right off and tumble into some stalwart blue pill White Knight waiting to hoist their pulped roast beef snatches up onto the highest of pedestals

Eeew! Pulped? Do they actually know what that means? How do they think vaginae work? How do they think penes work? And these are the ‘but evolution’ people? How is that a functional reproductive process? How can someone be so oblivious to have as much sex as they claim to, yet know nothing about how the actual organs operate?

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

You’re putting pussy on a pedestal and worshipping it for self validation and eventually when it gets pregnant you’ll just get mopped up in court and maybe even go to jail over it.

So many mixed metaphors . . . so little time.

14 Cats And Counting!
14 Cats And Counting!
4 years ago

Interesting er uhm dog-fight. So, as the PUA’s pat themselves on the back for their (entirely fictitious) super success with women, the MGTOW’s fume that they are not getting the credit they deserve for (in their fervid imaginations) separating themselves once and all from women (they just obsess about them endlessly).

As for who throws the most hissy fits I declare a dead heat. Both sides have so perfected the art of tantrum throwing I couldn’t in all good consciousness pick a winner.

I particularly like this article because I recently made the mistake of venturing onto a certain Youtube site recently and got gobsmacked with the info that apparently the feminist movement is interested in nothing but trivialities and personal issues. Actually I survived since I’ve heard this crap so often! However, I’m delighted that the guys are picking up the ball and debating the important, complex issues of our troubled times lol

AAAtheist
4 years ago

What do two chihuahuas in quicksand fighting each other over a squeak toy look like?

This.

Kevin
Kevin
4 years ago

The only quasi – MGTOW types worth listening to are the monks of Mt Athos. PUAs and MRAs are not worth listening to at all. Except for wryly laughing at how wrong – headed they are.

Mikki
Mikki
4 years ago

“Unless you’re getting the top 20 percent of men to mgtow women wont even notice you’ve left the sexual marketplace” Or maybe women dont notice because we have our own shit going on and dont spend countless hours obsessing over who every man around us is and isnt fucking??

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
4 years ago

It’s so weird, the way that they always use two dots in an ellipsis. (Maybe they want to stay away from periods?)

@ Dave That had me giggling at work. :):)

Lady Mondegreen
Lady Mondegreen
4 years ago

the reality is you just pick up after your women and they sit back and collect your money

Okay now I’m angry.

I’ve been a women for a long time, my whole life practically, and I never got this sweet gig. All this time I could’ve had a man to pick up after me and all I had to do was sit back and collect his money!?

WHY DIDN’T SOMEBODY TELL ME I’VE BEEN WOMANING WRONG?

Sisterhood, my ass.

*mumblegrumblegrouse*

Eve
Eve
4 years ago

It’s a super sad slap fight of bitterness and name calling. I know toddlers with more sense and honestly better insults. Also at least toddlers are cute when they start with the name calling and “bad language” because they have no idea what they are actually saying and are just parroting things they’ve heard.

Oh wait…okay so it’s exactly the same just without the cuteness.

Bina
4 years ago

Women will continue riding the carousel until their loins are so epically stretched out that they slide right off and tumble into some stalwart blue pill White Knight waiting to hoist their pulped roast beef snatches up onto the highest of pedestals.

Good feckin’ lard. How many times do I have to tell these shitweasels that penises don’t irrevocably alter our vaginas in any way, shape, or form? That we return to our pre-sex size and shape pretty quickly thereafter, and that the organ is even self-cleaning, so sperm doesn’t linger there forever, either? I mean, are their dicks EVER any bigger from dipping them in that zombifying vaginal goo? No. So, then, why the misogyny?

Neil
Neil
4 years ago

I look at it this way. At least the PUAs are trying to better themselves (although they are being fed misogynistic snake oil rather than something useful). MGTOWs aren’t even trying to improve and are using women as scapegoats. If they truly went their own way then I probably would say the opposite but because they don’t and they won’t even try to improve themselves, MGTOWs are definitely the bigger losers.

Lea
Lea
4 years ago

Public service announcement:
Sex does not stretch out vaginas. Contact with your penis does not change a vagina haver in any way.
*shooting star*

weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo

declaring MGTOWs to be a bunch of bitter whiners jealous of PUAs’ success with women the success with the imaginary women that PUAs make up.

Fixed.

Come on. This statement

Women will continue riding the carousel until their loins are so epically stretched out that they slide right off and tumble into some stalwart blue pill White Knight waiting to hoist their pulped roast beef snatches up onto the highest of pedestals.

versus this statement

You’re putting pussy on a pedestal and worshipping it for self validation and eventually when it gets pregnant you’ll just get mopped up in court and maybe even go to jail over it.

If I didn’t know which one came from the PUA and which from the MGTOW, I wouldn’t be able to tell. No one would. These groups are equally ignorant of how vaginas, vulvae and pregnancy work.

runsinbackground
runsinbackground
4 years ago

I disagree: say what you want about the tenets of MGTOW, at least it’s an ethos. MGTOWs recognize (falsely, of course) that “the deck is stacked against them” in society, and in particular in regards to “the intimate acceptance of women,” and respond (ostensibly) by disengaging from society so as to avoid harm. They’re united in their belief that they are resisting oppression by refusing to support the system that creates it. The only thing that unites PUAs is their commitment to psychopathy as a lifestyle choice. MGTOW would be a legitimate response, if what they were responding to was something other than their own false consciousness, while PUA is a sort of social club for antisocial personalities in any conceivable state of the world.

ryeash
ryeash
4 years ago

How…how does something fall out from being stretched? That doesn’t even make any sense. They mix and match their metaphors so much, it’s like they’re trying to be the bartender from Boondock Saints.

comment image

If only they’d make like a tree and get the fuck outta here.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
4 years ago

@runsinbackground

The only thing that unites PUAs is their commitment to psychopathy as a lifestyle choice

while PUA is a sort of social club for antisocial personalities in any conceivable state of the world

The comments policy can be found thru any of 3 hyperlinks on this very page. Of particular interest are the bits on ableist language. Peruse at your leisure, and happy commenting

Ooglyboggles
4 years ago

Oh, this feeling, its a good one, to see groups of people I don’t like go at each other. The best part is, both know each others flaws and weakness, but they can’t bring themselves to admit that it’s their own fault.

Fred_the_dog
Fred_the_dog
4 years ago

Penises don’t weigh 7 lbs and have a circumference of 13.5 inches…which are the average newborn stats. Most women can pass one through their vagina and within a couple weeks be back to the same tightness they’d had before.

Babies don’t stretch anything out permanently, so why would a much, much tinier penis do so, no matter how often you had it, or however many different ones you chose to have? They have NO CLUE about biology.

brian
brian
4 years ago

I love it when they fight.

KindaSortaHarmless
KindaSortaHarmless
4 years ago

The idea that sex irrevocably “taints” a woman is a pretty common one among MGTOW/MRA/PUA/OMGWTFBBQ types. It’s likely a holdover from the olden days, when women were considered the property of their fathers and later husbands.

sevenofmine
sevenofmine
4 years ago

I’ve long said that the only difference between all the various strains of e-misogyny is how they self-justify. Their beliefs about women are indistinguishable from each other; they just have different means of convincing themselves that they’re not terrible people.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@AAAtheist

What do two chihuahuas in quicksand fighting each other over a squeak toy look like?

This.

Chihuahuas are adorable.

Skweek! toys are fun.

MRAs, on the other hand, are neither adorable nor fun.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
4 years ago

Two nutrias in quicksand fighting each other over a deflated balloon?

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

Popcorn, anyone?

http://media2.giphy.com/media/OWNEvHukFpZAc/giphy.gif

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/992/526/601.gif

comment image

comment image

And my personal favorites (because they suit this situation perfectly):

comment image

and

comment image

Sorry, I couldn’t pick which one I liked better. Jeannie for the misandry of a woman having fun and daring to eat something that will make her *GASP* fat, or Dean Ambrose nonchalantly watching two dudes fight with a little extra misandry points because I’m a woman who likes watching WWE, and I really like Ambrose.

Six from Column A and half-a-dozen from Column B, I suppose.

Snowberry
Snowberry
4 years ago

Isn’t popcorn mostly air? Seems kind of hard to gain any real weight off that.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
4 years ago

@PI

I really like Ambrose

The greatest moment in wrestling history:
Hogan lifting Andre? No
Austin 3:16 says I just whooped you’re ass? No
The NWO forms? No
Kenta Kohashi’s retirement? No
comment image
The greatest moment in wrestling history is Dean Ambrose just up and leaving in the middle of a fuckin promo and hopping on the goddamn subway. Genius 😁

runsinbackground
runsinbackground
4 years ago

@Axecalibur
The second passage I’ll cop to, but in regards to the first, well, truth is an absolute defense against libel:
http://www.returnofkings.com/65305/women-in-their-prime-prefer-sex-with-damaged-men
That’s Roosh in his own words, on the subject of the unfortunate necessity of approximating the behavior diagnostic of psychopathy in order to get women to have sex with you.
http://www.returnofkings.com/47494/more-ways-you-can-live-life-like-a-villain
That’s “Donovan Sharpe” writing about how living the Red Pill life means recognizing that the path to success lies in developing the “dark triad” traits, including psychopathy.
https://therationalmale.com/2012/04/10/the-bitter-taste-of-the-red-pill/
That’s Rollo Tomassi arguing that identifying some aspects of PUA practice as “dark” because they take advantage of the fact that adopting “dark triad” traits makes it easier to succeed in life (specifically in matters of sex) is to miss the point. After all, the idea that men have some sort of responsibility to use their superior intelligence to the benefit of women is a product of distorted “Feminine-primary” thought.
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/11/13/cultivate-your-inner-dark-triad/
And that, well, you can read a URL as well as I can.
All this to say that the most prominent members of the PUA scene, and the people most often “tracked and mocked” on this site, all advocate imitating the behaviors diagnostic of psychopathy in order to be more successful in all areas of life. That is, as a “lifestyle choice”.

Blackrising
Blackrising
4 years ago

Good. Let them eat each other.

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

Snowberry | August 10, 2016 at 8:43 pm

Isn’t popcorn mostly air? Seems kind of hard to gain any real weight off that.

It’s mostly the butter and salt that’s “bad” for you, at least in large servings. A single bag isn’t going to do much. Of course, that’s also dependent on your metabolism and the like. All bodies are different and all that.

But you know these types of dudes: If a woman eats anything other than a few leaves of lettuce a day, she’s an unrepentant Fatty McFatterson who isn’t worthy of respect or their penis and needs to put down the cheeseburgers.

ColeYote
ColeYote
4 years ago

MGTOW may have started with the right intent of defying the gynocentric system that exploits men, but it has quickly turned into a congregation of young men who come together to validate each other’s bitterness and frustration

“A congregation of young men who come together to validate each other’s bitterness and frustration” might as well be ROK’s About Us page.

Mgtow is populated by highly successful men who’ve had their lives ruined in divorce court.

Excuse me for doubting that.

What exactly are you bringing to the table with any of this bullsh*t anyway? … No all you’re really doing is mocking…

As opposed to MGTOWs, who are engaged in extremely productive activities such as [error: NullPointerException]

I mean you might just be a simp mangina too its pretty hard to tell the difference online

Didn’t you just establish mockery is bad because icky females do it?

you haven’t addressed any of the issues mgtow addresses

Well, I’m at a loss about what he means. He can’t be talking about whining about how much women suck, because RoK clearly does address that.

all you did was try to infantalize the entire movement.

Not exactly difficult, you are infantile.

I think your website might be run by women.. just a thought.

Oh, hey, some more of that mockery MGTOWs don’t engage in.

EJ (The Other One) - on Holiday

@runsinbackground:

It is true that some PUA literature encourages them to behave in a manner which copies (and mythologises) some of the symptoms of a personality disorder, but this is not the same thing as having that disorder. Walking with a cane does not mean one has a broken leg.

The majority of people who suffer from personality disorders, including antisocial disorders, are not pickup artists. The majority of those sufferers try really hard to be good people and to be kind to those around them, despite their disorder.

Statements like yours, which equate PUAdom to suffering from antisocial personality disorder, are very hurtful to those sufferers who try to live a harmless life. As such, we ask you to please not make them.

Does that make sense?

There is a clinical term for PUAs and their ilk, but it isn’t antisocial personality disorder. It’s “asshole”, and as M reminds us, asshole is not a mental illness.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
4 years ago

Now, now, boys, calm down. You’re both right. MGTOW and PUAs are both total losers.

@EJ – Well said, and you put your finger on something that bothers me about these guys. I really dislike the way they appropriate/mimic the language and personality traits of marginalized groups, such as people who suffer from personality disorders, people with autism, SJWs, rape survivors, etc. They think these traits are cheat codes that can be deployed to instantly win an argument or get laid (but are also ripe for mockery when it suits them). Asshole is too kind a word for them. They’re hollow to the core.

AAAtheist
4 years ago

@ Kat

Chihuahuas are adorable.

Skweek! toys are fun.

MRAs, on the other hand, are neither adorable nor fun.

Duly noted.

How about two Komodo dragons in elephant shit fighting over deer offal?

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@AAAtheist

All animals are amazing, especially Komodo dragons. MRAs are not.

Maybe something in a Donald Trump wrestles with his doppelganger on astroturf meme?

msexceptiontotherule
msexceptiontotherule
4 years ago

…Oooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrr…

PUAs and MGTOWs griping and whining at each other over which is the biggest bunch of losers. (Hint: THEY BOTH ARE THE BIGGEST LOSERS…it’s a tie! And I love ellipses!…)

Croquembouche of patriarchy
Croquembouche of patriarchy
4 years ago

Well, here is a sentence I’m surprised to find myself typing:
I’d love to read Terrance’s thoughts on this.
On a Terrance- related note, has anybody here read Lois McMaster Bujold’s “Ethan of Athos”? It has been popping into my mind all day as a fascinating exploration of the evolution of a society founded by M who actually did GTOW. I now realise that aside from the apropos ‘all male society turns out not to look much like what it’s founders envisaged’ aspect, the name Terrance is another reason it keeps popping into my mind – I hope our own Terrance meets an Ellie and an Ethan, and migrates to Athos to live happily ever after himself some day.

calmdown
calmdown
4 years ago

I’ll use any any excuse to use this .jpg but:
http://rampantgames.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/let-them-fight.jpg

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
4 years ago

@calmdown
The arrogance of manosphereans is thinking that their fragile egos are within their control and not the other way around…

Virgin Mary
Virgin Mary
4 years ago

These MGTOW vs PUA fights are nothing like Trotsyists sect fights.
Trotskyist sects have principles, history and perspectives.
Whilst there has certainly been a lot of falling out amongst the older guys, (the patriarchy?) the younger generation are a lot less sectarian. We are fighting for the same thing after all, fairer politics for a better world.
MGTOW vs PUA fights are more like two year olds squabbling over who wants to play with a He Man doll at kindergarten. All red faces, tear stained eyes, dribbly bibs and temper tantrums.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
4 years ago

@ Croquembouche of patriarchy

I’ve also read Ethan of Athos. Now that was a group of men who really did go their own way.

snork maiden
4 years ago

I’m happy to see them attacking each other instead going after women.

varalys the dark
4 years ago

I’m totally blaming this site for my current addiction to real-life popocorn. I have nothing else to say except “Ewwwww”. I’m a lesbian and I think I know more about the effects heterosexual sex has on a woman’s body than these people.