So yesterday comedian Jen Kirkman posted a little joke on Twitter, as comedians are wont to do.
Before we look at what happened after she posted this Tweet (which has now been deleted), let me just say a couple of things about the Tweet itself.
Jen Kirkman does not actually “LIKE that Hillary has murdered a lot of people,” in part because she (Kirkman) does not LIKE murder and in part because she does not believe that Hillary has, in fact, murdered a lot of people.
The joke is a clear reference to the right-wing Clinton-haters who have been trying their best, for the last quarter century, to convince the world that Bill and Hillary have been secretly knocking off their political enemies, mob style, racking up a CLINTON BODY COUNT that is now said to number 48.
In other words, the joke is not actually a joke about murder. It s a joke about the right-wing idiots who think that Hillary goes around offing people like some pastel-pantsuited Tony Soprano.
[UPDATE 8/5 Kirkman herself made clear that’s what she meant in a Tweet today.]
Unfortunately, many of those who encountered Kirkman’s Tweet on Twitter — a large number of whom seem to be former Bernie Sanders supporters who’ve gone over the Green Party’s Jill Stein — have kind of missed the point just a little, misreading it as some sort of creepy celebration of drones murdering children in Afghanistan, or something.
And instead of stopping for a second to ask themselves, “wait, is this comedian lady who does those hilarious yet disarmingly earnest segments on Drunk History really mocking or even advocating the murder of children, why would she do that, that can’t be right” many of these people decided to advocate the murder of her.
Here are a small fraction of the Tweets sent to her.
After Kirkman noted that she would be handing the operation of her Twitter account to someone else because she was tired of reading all the death threats, some of her Twitter, er, critics, did little victory dances of sorts.
And yes, that last dude is using a photo of a young Josef Stalin as his avatar. You know, the Russian dictator whose actual non-fictional not-a-joke STALIN BODY COUNT added up to something close to 20 million.
Someone even took the anti-Kirkman struggle to Wikipedia.
https://twitter.com/lastlivingrose/status/761283232260362240
The people bombarding Kirkman with threats and abuse aren’t Trump fans. They aren’t Trump fans pretending to be BernieBros. If you don’t believe me, go look at the accounts of the people whose Tweets I quoted above, or go directly to @JenKirkman’s mentions now, where you can find hundreds if not thousands more Tweets like this.
These are people who, in many instances, consider themselves progressives, radicals, anarchists, “revolutionaries.” These are, in more than a few cases, proud supporters of Jill Stein, a woman whose presence in the race makes it all that much harder to defeat the unhinged Muslim-hating racist Donald Trump. That strikes me as something of an irony.
In Milan Kundera’s The Joke, set in Communist Czechoslovakia in the 1950s, a young Czech intellectual and Communist Party member is tossed from the party and sent to work in the mines after he jokingly writes “long live Trotsky” on a postcard.
These days, we’ve got Twitter for that.
NOTE 8/5: Just a reminder for new commenters: defending or excusing harassment is against the comment policy here. I’ve been lax on bans in this thread so far but that’s over now.
Y’know…even if she was being serious? Threats of violence, death, and rape are not okay.
That shouldn’t be something that needs to be said, and yet we all have to say it over and over while people act all petulant about their rights to speech. It’s like lecturing the most hardcore, evil kindergarteners ever.
@repentantphonebooth
The original tweet was in poor taste. Some of what she said was awful. She is not blameless. She deserved no harassment for it, but she should have been called out and she bloody-well should have apologized for such an awful joke.
I’ll say it again for the cheap seats:
I hope everyone who harassed her is permanently kicked off twitter.
She owes a lot of apologies.
Not all the tweets at her were death threats or any kind of threat and she still responded abysmally.
@leftwingfox
Describing existing politics is a meaningful way is impossible because it is complete bollocks! Some ideological purity would do some good, cause all we’ve got left is hogwash and a corned beef hash.
Maybe if the parties actually knew what they stood for that might be a start, as they say, if you stand for nothing, you’ll fall for anything!! 🙂
@virgin mary
Just defining everyone who isn’t a tankie as a conservative/libertarian seems like a pretty miserable way to go through life let alone try to make the world a better place. I mean you’re basically saying all but like 2% of the population is evil, what’s even the point in trying once you do that?
@Virgin Mary
As a fellow Brit, thank you so much for explaining all of the terms both to us and to friends across the pond, by which I mean conservative, liberal, socialist and many others.
Could you now explain what any of that has to do with how people actually feel and how people should actually vote? I identify as both liberal and socialist, but the labels don’t tell me how to vote. I listen to peoples’ positions on actual issues, regardless of labels, and then support or oppose on that basis. So I could do without your “helpful” analysis on how people fit, pre or post 1956 communist analysis.
Yikes at all the “she doesn’t deserve harassment and threats but…” posts.
If even the fucking progressive movement turns into gamergate what force of good is even left in this world 🙁
@WWTH:
Honestly, without the context provided by David I wouldn’t really know how to take that joke tweet if I just saw it.
I don’t know who Jen Kirkman is (which perhaps also shows how little I pay attention to local goings-on since she’s apparently currently in Vermont), and I’m young enough and don’t pay enough attention to political rhetoric to understand a reference to a conspiracy about the Clintons.
EDIT: But much like with GribbleGrape’s “enemies”, I’d wait to hear more or look up more myself rather than immediately assuming she’s an awful human being who wants to kill millions of people.
Hey, brand new assholes! Quit victim blaming. Just quit it, huh?
@Mary
Defined by you. That’s the problem. When most (knowledgeable) Muricans say ‘left wing’ we don’t mean it as a strict synonym for socialist. Is it cos Muricans are just all wrong somehow? Or, perhaps, is it necessary to deal with the cultural context in which a word is used? And, if you can do that without being a pretentious ass about it (responding with “Are you joking?” in the last thread or calling our politics “complete bollocks” cos our vocabular confuses you), that’d be nice too
The reason why people went after Jen Kirkman is because her mentality contributes to the normalization of the imperialist tendencies of Hillary Clinton. Her “joke” is about as funny as a R*pe joke. Why is this? Because Hillary has contributed to the deaths of many people of color all around the world, from Honduras to Libya.
A Marxist,
How are death threats lobbed at a comedian going to solve imperialism (which btw has been normalized for centuries, unfortunately)?
Even if you set aside the morality of threatening violence and using misogynistic insults, this is an own goal. It doesn’t make the left look good when we act just like right wingers.
Now, kindly fuck off!
Honestly, the more virulent misogyny Hillary Clinton and the women who support her on the receiving end of, the more I’m pushed from a reluctant to enthusiastic supporter of hers. So yeah, own goal.
A bit OT, but social-media related (TW for police violence): Korryn Gaines, a young black woman, was shot to death by police on Monday in Baltimore. Before the actual shooting, she was recording her conflict with police and posting it live to Facebook. Later, apparently at the police’s request, Facebook deleted the video.
There’s a Sum of Us petition asking to know why FB took the video down (basically criticizing it for covering up police violence, I think, but phrasing things in a more subdued way). Sure, demanding a statement isn’t the same as making everything good again, but at least it’s holding FB accountable.
What they’re asking: “Demand Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg clarify his company’s position in deactivating accounts and video at the request of the police, and commit to do more to protect people like Korryn Gaines and her son.”
@Marxist
The reason I’m going after you is because your mentality contributes to the normalization of misogynistic, online harassment campaigns. Your ‘explanation’ is about as useful as asking what a r*ape survivor did to make their attacker angry. Why is this? Because you have contributed to a culture of ‘good victim, bad victim’ that denies justice to many, including people of color, both here and abroad
@leftwingfox
Thank you. I was having a hard time putting my finger on exactly what was bothering me about irritating-ass conversation, and you have identified it exactly.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3rtyerfHZ1qir45xo1_500.gif
http://www.sharegif.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/mic-dropgame-of-thronesswag.gif
If you see a woman being threatened with death until she is chased off of social media (which is part of her career) for a joke she tweeted and you decide that you need to remark on how horrible she is for not being more clear in her meaning, you’re an asshole. STFU.
Aside from any rape or death threats, which are vile and stupid, Jen deserved much of what she got. You probably didn’t actually see the following tweets of her essentially ridiculing people who very likely had friends and family die from violence Hillary is responsible for, or at least had second or third hand experience. It was despicable, and she deserved all the verbal harassment she received for that.
Jen Kirkman is not some delicate flower. She regularly says horribly offensive shit she apparently thinks is funny. If she gets it back when people feel she truly crossed the line, so be it. If she can’t deal, maybe she should delete her account.
Again, this does not include any actual threats, which should never be tolerated. But please, take the time to separate the two, or you’re completely intellectually dishonest and your opinion is meaningless.
Maybe for many of you Hillary’s war mongering is something to laugh about, or dismiss, or euphemize as “hawkish” or whatever other bullshit distraction you can come up with. But for many people, especially people of color who know what a right wing coup in Honduras or the bombing of Libya means in a very real and bloody way, it is not. It means death and torture and families destroyed, and it’s anything but a joke.
I personally find it sickening how easily privileged white liberals are able to ignore Hillary’s war mongering, friendship with Kissinger, and past record of sociopathy so easily while still calling themselves “progressive”. She may be preferable to Trump, but that’s as low a bar as I can imagine. Take an honest look at her record, if you can. The second most sickening thing is how easy it is for some people to label her critics misogynist and dismiss them.
Most notably, take a look at Jen’s current TL and you’ll see she’s never once expressed a moment of regret or introspection. It’s still all about her playing the victim and people not getting the joke.
That’s the behavior of a narcissist, folks. Plain and simple.
So only sweet, delicate women deserve to be protected from misogynistic harassment. I’ll write that one down.
You know, if women get called cunt and whore and get death threats and harassment for stepping out of line in leftist movements, one can only conclude that those movements aren’t safe for women. That we aren’t welcome. How the fucking hell is any kind of progressive movement going to have any kind of impact if you chase half the damn population away?
You’re really going to use this pile of crap JK stepped into of her own accord to get in a slam at Jill Stein– not-so-subtly trying to link up U.S. Greens (many of us who are, y’know, feminists) with misogynist males??
Gosh, that’s super-duper feminist of you, Dave.
I’ve seen this all too often from people who said they supported feminists, when really all they support are those feminists who happen to vote Democrat. I guess I hoped you’d be different. My mistake.
No, don’t get up. I’ll just show myself out. JFC. >:
I’m going to have to insist on taking issue with some conclusions here David.
While the people in question certainly could’ve thought about that (and they don’t seem that bright), there are actually people who defend imperialistic belligerence on the international scene, in very barbaric ways.
People do actually advocate for the death of children. Subtly and in coded language (mostly). But it happens.
Further, it’s not strange at all to see the most odious of conservative behaviour among American lefties, while there’s infighting.
For example: If I were to suggest that Clinton deserves equal amounts of credit and responsibility for the deaths of Osama bin Laden and Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, I’d expect someone to approach me with some kind of nonsense excuse for why it only counts when the people getting killed are somewhat justifiable targets.
So, yeah.
>:
Thank you for your eloquent words, cabezoney. I’m so pissed off right now that I can’t even see straight. So I’m glad somebody said them. >:
And I find it hilarious that people imply that voting for Hillary Clinton is racist when 91% of black voters and 69% of all non-white voters back her.
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/nbc-wsj-poll-clinton-jumps-nine-point-lead-over-trump-n623131
I’m really hoping that this is all some sort of more convincing than usual 4 chan troll job because they’re all using the same Honduras and Libya talking point. But idk.
Either way, it’s pretty gross and dare I say, white privileged to tell people of color that they’re voting the wrong way for people of color which is what the trolls we’re doing are kind of implying by saying that supporting Hillary Clinton = pro death to people of color.
@cabezoney
Since you’re responding to me, you should probably know that I’m not, in fact, white. Never have been, turns out. And we’re not electing Kissinger, so bringing him up is like when O’Reilly spent the whole 08 election cycle talking about Rev. Wright as if that mattered. Also, just a note, ableism ain’t OK here. So we have condescention, victim blaming, low level misogyny (delicate flower, my ass), and diagnosing to top it all off. Ban? If for nothing else than to thin the troll/sealion herd
@WWTH
Now, being a bit of a narcissist like Ms Kirkman (apparently), I kinda can’t resist:
http://img.ifcdn.com/images/4b2d1193a5ce0f5fb712777bf47e3a98765f33ae66c51af3058425b57b7178eb_3.jpg
I’ve voted Green Party before. Not for president, but for other offices. I probably never will again because all I’m seeing this cycle is excuses for the misogyny on display amongst some of the Bernie Sanders turned Jill Stein supporters.
No matter how you feel about the target of bigotry, bigotry is not okay. Progressives should know this. Feminism among the opposition of other bigotries is part of why I’m a progressive in the first place. For all the Democratic party’s flaws, I’ve never felt unwelcome or threatened at any party function or campaign of theirs because of my gender. I can’t say the same of the Green party right now. Get your shit together.