The human race faces many dire threats. War, famine, disease, terrorism, giant asteroids, Donald Trump. But the ever-alert readers of the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit know that all these threats pale in comparison to the greatest threat of all. I am speaking, of course, of fat chicks.
In a post with the thoughtful title “Dear obese women I f*king hate you,” a Reddit MGTOW calling himself iamlikethewindbaby outlines his case against these horrible monsters. Speaking fluent SARCASM, he addresses fat chicks directly.
“Thanks for turning average chicks into supermodels and ugly chicks into average chicks,” he declares.
Thanks for filling up my newsfeed with memes about how beautiful fat chicks are. Do you even know how attractiveness is determined? The more healthy and fertile a woman is the more attractive she is. Being obese makes you unattractive, period. F*ck you.
Er, I’m pretty sure attractiveness is determined by whatever the hell people happen to think is attractive. Some people find skinny people attractive; some find fat people attractive; some people don’t pay much attention to weight. There are even a few perverse souls who find Donald Trump attractive, if you can believe that.
Thanks for making a generation of men feel bad about themselves because a fat chick is the best they can do, it’s not their fault 70% of you are overweight.
That’s actually not quite right. According to the most recent National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey conducted by the Centers for Disease Control, the percentage of American women classified as overweight or obese isn’t 70%; it’s 64%. The percentage of men classified as overweight or obese? 74%.
That’s right, fellas; there are more fat dudes than fat chicks in the US.
The percentage of American adults classified as obese? 36% — exactly the same for men and women.
Now, there may be legitimate reasons to wonder if these categories really make sense as they’re currently defined. But one thing is clear: for every fat chick out there fat chick-ing, there’s a fat dude to match.
Thanks for being 400lbs and yet somehow still unable to cook. That’s great. It’s a good thing we did away with those sexist home economics classes.
Dudes, given that you’re all devoted to GOING YOUR OWN WAY and all, shouldn’t you be learning how to cook your own damn dinner?
Thanks for being so fat that being 20lbs overweight isn’t even considered fat anymore. Nothing is sexier than a 5’3 150lb women.
According to some number I found on the internet, the 5’5″ tall Marilyn Monroe saw her weight fluctuate from 115-150 lbs at various points in her adult life. I don’t know why we know this, or if we should, but apparently we do. Here’s a picture of her at one of her more voluptuous moments, in Some Like it Hot.
What a hideous monster!
Thanks for having personalities that match your appearance. It’s important for people’s insides to match their outsides.
Based on iamlikethewindbaby’s personality, I can only assume he looks something like this:
I can’t wait until all your cold-giant-black-hearts explode.
What a lovely fellow.
Iamlikethewindbaby also blames obese women for rising insurance premiums, and snickers a little at the thought of obese women dying before retirement.
It’s true that obesity can increase health care costs and lower life expectancy. But you know what else increases health care costs and lowers life expectancy? Being an angry dickhead.
“There is a direct connection between being constantly angry, competitive, and aggressive, and early heart disease,” notes an article on the “health costs of anger” on mentalhelp.net.
[R]ecent research suggests that men who have poor anger management skills are more likely to suffer a heart attack before age 55 than their more emotionally controlled peers. A separate study indicated that older male subject’s hostility ratings (how hostile and irritable they tend to act towards others) predicted heart disease more accurately than other known risk factors including cholesterol, alcohol intake, cigarette smoking and being overweight. …
The evidence from numerous studies is clear: constant chronic anger, hostility, and aggression raise your risk of developing various deadly forms of heart disease by as much as five times the normal rate. The more hostility you tend to express, the more prone to heart disease you are likely to be.
And the lovely iamlikethewindbaby is hardly the only Reddit MGTOW who fits the angry dickhead profile, as a quick skim through the comments on his post reveals.
Indeed, the lovely fellow who calls himself lordjedi may have cut several weeks off his life expectancy with all the anger in this comment alone:
Not that I haven’t tried a couple times, but my policy for many years has been my bedroom is off limits to fats.
I’m sure the “fats” of the world feel just awful they don’t get to partake of lordjedi’s charms. He continues:
That means no easy money for fatties either. Get a f*cking job, Porkins, if you want to sleep indoors. Every dollar you spend in your short worthless life will be earned by you with your fine arts/wymyn’s studies degree and your $90K student loan debt, while stocking shelves on the 3 AM Walmart shift. Enjoy your Cool Ranch Doritos. Why don’t you f*cking marry them if you love them so much?
If you love your hatred so much, lordjedi, why don’t you marry it? Oh, wait, I guess you have.
MTGOStark, who has clearly never spoken to a woman in the real world, offers this thought.
If being not obese is literally the only thing they have to do in their life to succeed, and they still fail at it (and complain on top), it’s just truly pitiful.
Aanarchist apparently spends much of his Going His Own Way time scanning through profiles on online dating sites.
i see those online profiles where the woman is like 50 lbs overweight and she puts down average. a few extra pounds means 100 lbs overweight. big and beautiful means THAR SHE BLOWS. the funny thing is they want you to ignore their weight, like it has nothing to do with who she is. it’s like she wants you to watch her eat an entire f*cking cake with her bare hands, and treat her as if she’s eating salad and a water.
Huh. That actually sounds like a fun date. Who doesn’t like cake?
It’s the foods people typically gain weight eating that are the causative agents for disease, rather than the state of being overweight. Obviously that’s why only correlations can be seen.
@Paradoxy
Aww, dancing Pokémon!
@Bryce: I don’t remember exactly where I read it, but I remember reading a story about a (thin!) English teenage girl who ate nothing but Chicken McNuggets for a long time. She didn’t gain weight but she got pretty sick. (By “pretty sick” I mean hospitalized)
I had PCOS and I was overweight until I was diagnosed and learned how to eat to avoid my symptoms and went on medication. I lost weight but I never cared when I was overweight. I was still happy with my body and my life. I don’t care what men’s beauty standards are, besides my boyfriend. I don’t care about conforming. I’m happy with my own life, my boyfriend, my body, my friends, family, career. It’s irritating how these MGTOWs think chubby chicks are just sitting around waiting for their approval. We don’t need it. In fact, if I knew weight would actually repel Red Pill/MGTOW/Manospherian types, I’d gain it back as some kind of pest repeller, if I didn’t have health considerations. 😛
Soooo close, but you can’t actually tell what fat people eat. . .it’s actually just as varied as what thin people eat.
but (and I don’t have studies on hand to back this, so take with a large grain of salt) I bet we could find a correlation between certain diseases and yo-yo dieting, or maybe even the stress caused by constant inescapable stigma.
Edited to add: Please let me know if I get obnoxious. I’m at one week nic free and have no clue if I’m getting too intense.
Sorry for not commenting on the previous discussion, I just need to vent a bit. Fat-shaming is disgusting and horrible. It obviously hurts fat people, but in addition it hurts insecure ones who are “normal weight” ( fuck that description!) too.
I have been convinced for the majority of my life that I am too big. Buying clothes and wearing sleeveless clothing in the summertime have made me so anxious. I have hated my pale, thin skin, because the grainy texture of fat underneath is so well visible and so are veins, pimples and other imperfections too. (Obviously, I have bought into the photoshopped pictures of models just the same as these angry dudes.) I was – still am -a sucker for acceptance and it nearly killed me when I was younger. I knew too well what was expected of me as a woman: in a sense, most of my mental health problems were a result of fitting quite well into the societal expectations, but taking it too far, out of the range of “normalcy”.
When I could have been enjoying my body, I was insecure of it instead. I skipped meals for coffee and cigarettes (while worrying about wrinkles at the age of 22!) and let lousy partners take advantage of me, because I was in my own opinion too nasty for anything better. Obviously, there were deeper causes for all this but those were some of the ways my anxiety and depression manifested because of my internalized fat-phobia and misogyny.
So yea, I’m inclined to think that instead of focusing on people’s body fat, we ought to fight the misery-inducing ideas about bodies and their normalcy. Fat isn’t the real killer
@ fucking scented hard chairs
Actually it’s about ethics in aggregate news sites. And I’m really upset you said that, so I’m starting a petition to force you to go to bed early or something.
Re: Spencer
Reading the first paragraph, I was like “Oh… hmm… I guess…”
Reading the second paragraph, I was like “lol, no, fuck this guy.”
Re: “I am the wind, baby”
Vex! Has anyone mentioned where this is from yet? Where is it from? This is bothering my now. Someone please tell me! (Google is no help.)
I love my boyfriend, but if I want creme brulee, even he can’t compete with it. Now I’m hungry :/
Thanks joekster-bearded beta and everyone else providing useful data/insights on obesity and health. I worded that bit carefully (“obesity CAN increase health care costs and lower life expectancy”) because, even though so much of the research is shoddy, there are still things like diabetes that are very much tied to weight.
That said, I of course agree with everyone here that fat shaming is shitty, and makes things worse; that for the overwhelming majority of people diets don’t work long term and many of them are dangerous; and that much of the “concern” about weight has nothing to do with health and is really just people being assholes.
And on an unrelated note. I’ve banned Spencer for being the very model of a modern concern troll.
@cleverforagirl
You’re not
Yasss! I believe in you!
@kupo
Sorry to drop all this without the relevant links, but 1)no time, gotta get ready for a doc appointment (nothing too serious) and 2)I’d probably fuck it up anyway. I’ll try to source it all later
Cannabis is weird. THC and CBD (active chemicals in the plant) act in completely opposite ways, so weed itself acts in completely opposite ways sometimes. Therefore, most of the harms listed below will only happen for some people, and a corresponding benefit will occur for others. Keep that in mind
1)lighting something on fire and breathing that shit in is just not gonna be good for your lungs. The incidence of lung cancer (and due to metastasization, a lot of other kinds) isn’t as high as cigarette smoking, but it happens and may even be worse if not those aforementioned opposite affects
2)weed is addictive in some people. Cravings, withdrawal, the whole 9
3)cannabinoids are linked to heart attacks and strokes. They cause blood vessels to expand while increasing heart rate. Then they constrict those same vessels, thus dangerously increasing pressure
4)schizophrenic spectrum disorders have been weakly connected. Reefer madness is sensationalist bullshit, but, in a percentage of people, schizophrenia and related symptoms are an effect
5)overdose is incredibly rare, but some are more at risk for it than others. Also, getting all fancy (strong bred strains, specialized machines, general ‘scientific stoner’ stuff) will increase risk
6)once again, the opposite thing. Marijuana can cause cancer, but also stop cancer cells from growing. It can both lead to and treat certain mental illnesses. It can help and hurt your heart. Unfortunately, due to drug laws, proper research ain’t moving as fast as it can
Full disclosure: not a smoker/edible-er/anything-else-er. Never have, don’t ever plan to. I’m such a lame I don’t even fuckin drink alcohol ?
No shade intended for those that do. Not my business, whatever works for you. Might wanna check with a medical professional tho…
Mary Contrary (from page 1)
if it helps, a size 14 from the 1940’s is different to a modern day 14, probably 2 sizes at least I think.
Someone should start talking maths now, and some of those sweet sweet sexy statistics (breathing heavy) please!*
*What, I thought this would be the perfect time to get a little sexy talk, some people are into airbrushed women/men, some people like the maths and statistics talkers! Who cares what you’re wearing, can you tell me more about double blind studies and back it up with numbers?
Hello.
Well, almost all has already being said.
I particulary agree with Dalillama about the weight (no pun intended) of economics in the weight of population in general. Repeatedly eating something unhealthy because you can not really afford anything else does not help to control your mass.
And that is another thing annoying about their fat-shaming attitude, it is that they deeply believe it is just a problem of self-control. They are so many disorders which lead to weight gain (as there are some which lead to weight loss, which are not better in term of health) : metabolic disorders, hormonal disorders, sometimes mental disorders too. If your body do not metabolize correctly anything you eat, you can do all the sport you want, you are still going to gain weight. If you have an always unsatiety feeling because your hormones make you feel like that, self-control alone can not help you, especially when, in addition, there are so often some addictive elements in food (hello, sugar !).
As many of you already say too, not so far away in the time, having some weight was not seen as bad. On the contrary, it was an indicator that you were able to eat “as much as you want”, on other words : you were “rich” enought to get the food you want (social market value for you to pick up women/men, woohoo ! – Ahem, sorry). And it also had this supposed fertility perk many of you have exposed. Now, the trend seems to have changed for the reverse – and as a trend, it remains quite versatile -, but social environment has changed too : you can shame those who do not follow the trend (weither it is their choice or something which occurs against their will is irrelevant for the shamers) quickly and anonymly (? Not sure about the term, sorry).
And media do not help by providing the information they want almost everywhere (i think you feel less peer pressure when less people know “what is the trend, today”, and you also ask yourself less questions). Of course, media can also provide good and/or useful information, but as they remain part and dependant of the economics (sponsors for commercial, owners who are not journalists themselves, and so on), i fear information may be a bit prejudiced. And that makes them play on two boards at the same time, when you can have commercial with upper standard beautiful/handsome person as an example on what you should look like (if you wanna be in) on one page, and a Macdonald commercial on the opposite page.
And i feel a bit the same about niche media. It is nice to have magazines for homo or trans communauties, for train model fans, for persons who love to count the zebra lines of crosswalks of roads which widht is included between 2,17 meters and 5,96 meters, and when the weather is rainy and the season is fall (Ok, i may have made this one a bit). But as long as you rely mainly on commercials to pay the bills and the payroll, there is the risk of prejudice. That is why it is nice to have sites like here, which rely less on commercial than on people.
Finally, what do we have are persons who hate people who do not fit their idea of an ideal body. What they want are people who fit their idea of ideal body in order to reproduce and, by expectation, convey further longer in time this ideal, no matter the feelings and the relations between the people and them. In other terms, they just want eugenism. Welcome to Gattaca !
Have a nice day.
@cleverforagirl: you’re right. It is quite possible to ‘eat around’ any bariatric surgery. All you really have to do is eat really frequent, small meals, and you’ll put the weight back on, and (as you mentioned) re-gain the diabetes. The best advice I’ve heard given to patients preparing for bariatric surgery: ‘The surgery is just a tool. It’s up to you to use it’.
What I’ve found in my (somewhat brief) experience is that the people who have the most success with bariatric surgery (that is, don’t re-gain the weight) are those people who truly are obese because of over-eating and lack of exercise, and who have genuinely committed to the weight loss (usually because of some health crises or other). If whatever psychological or biological issues led you to obesity are still active, then the surgery will not be effective.
Incidentally, this is why many insurance companies will not pay for bariatric surgery until the patient has managed to lose some weight without assistance. Although it appears to be a way of punishing people for being obese, it really is a way of screening patients with the highest chance of success. If a patient is unable to lose some weight without that assistance, they are not likely to benefit from the bariatric surgery long-term.
@Kupo: If I’d been less inebriated, I probably would not have mentioned marijuana, but, I opened the can of worms, so here goes. I was trying to think of something with fewer health effects than obesity, but the truth is, there are surprisingly few large-population, randomized studies in humans studying any effects of marijuana, positive or negative. I think Time magazine had an article about this a few months ago, in which they argued that the US federal government has actually discouraged such research as part of the ‘war on drugs’. So, what we ‘know’ about the potential harms of marijuana use mostly comes from case studies.
There is a great deal taught in medical schools about the effects of long-term marijuana use on brain structure, with lots of scary looking imaging (think ‘this is your brain on drugs’). However, that all comes from the limited studies I mentioned above. If interested, this link is to an abstract of a 2016 review of the current literature regarding this aspect:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27408790
And here is another, similar review from earlier this year:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27354924
One point about marijuana use that is often made is a supposed link to obesity (again, based largely on case-reports). Interestingly, this is not actually supported by the epidemiological evidence, as indicated below:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25743435
Finally, this article actually calls into question the ‘gateway hypothesis’, that is, the belief that people who smoke marijuana are more likely to experiment with more harmful drugs later in life:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27413674
tl/dr: We really don’t know about the long-term effects of marijuana use, because it hasn’t been well studied. It could ‘rot your brain’ and ‘make you fat’, or it could be benign, or it could actually make you thin. We just don’t know.
@PearlClutcher: There is at least one woman I know well who has similar issues: her BMI is 19, and she still insists she needs to lose weight. I’m convinced it’s because of her mother, who is even skinnier, has osteoporosis, and refuses to see physicians because ‘they’ll just find something wrong with me’ (I wonder if someone told her she needs to gain weight). Also, her mother keeps commenting on this woman’s butt.
@cleverforagirl: to address your second question, the physician I worked with in medical school actually did have decent success. However, his approach combined medical therapy, nutrition advice (he was a great fan of the ‘paleolithic diet’, or as he called it, ‘boiled chicken and broccoli’) with cognitive therapy (done by his wife) to address underlying psychological issues. Also, he prescribed phentermine (the less toxic portion of the legendary fen-phen) to some of his patients. He was careful to closely monitor the patients he gave this to, but it’s not something I’d be comfortable doing for my own patients.
@Argle Bargle – Me too. Creme brulee gets my full attention, every time.
I really can’t stand the popular misconception that being overweight is an indicator of poor diet/lack of willpower/sloppy morals. That needs to just go away already.
So many manospherians, particularly in the seduction community, subscribe to a sort of appearance Calvinism. In their view, the chiseled are that way not because of genetics, youth, or the wealth/leisure time to pursue fitness, but because they have inner drive, self-discipline and initiative. In their world, being conventionally thin is the physical manifestation of moral excellence. They aren’t able to separate the two. I think that’s one reason RP puts so much emphasis on lifting as the key to salvation.
Meanwhile, their souls are stained by zero empathy, boundless cynicism, Machiavellian transactional motivations, a cruel zero-sum view of relationships, and a compulsive need to hurt others in order to feel powerful. Dat self improvement tho.
Thanks, Aesop. Feel free to rush to the internet and complain bitterly every time your handy book cover fallacy doesn’t work.
The WHO actually has a fact-sheet on obesity. It’s written for the lay-person and (IMO) over-simplified, but some readers may find it useful.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs311/en/
@IP: I actually do advise my obese patients with degenerative joint disease to lose weight. After I send them to physical therapy for strengthening exercises and after I start them on at least scheduled acetaminophen (titrating up as needed) to help with the pain (usually, I refer these patients to rheumatology or orthopedics for steroid injections as well). Also, I wouldn’t do that before confirming my diagnosis with imaging. There may come a time when I feel confidant enough in my clinical skills to skip the x-ray, but I’m not even close yet.
And I love creme brulee. Caramelized sugar gets me every time 🙂
@Buttercup: I think the whole notion that ‘poor health = poor morals’ needs to go away. Permanently. It’s anachronistic, and it really doesn’t help anything.
Buttercup,
Now I’m picturing an MGTOW crashing a fertility clinic waiting room and muttering about gynocracy, SMV and taking red pills, getting escorted out by security and later posting online about the misandry of it all.
Fact is, there is no weight-loss method yet found that will lead to permanent thinness without requiring the person to also permanently live a rigid, unsustainable for most of us, life. Also, for many, the sort of deprivation they need to attain in order to lose weight is unhealthy in itself. So sorry joekster, I know your heart is in the right place, but if I have a choice of living a worthwhile life as a fatty fat fatso, or a slightly longer one of constant deprivation and suffering, I choose the “unhealthy” option.
Also, just like to point out: I am the daughter of two Type 2 diabetics, I am fat, yet I am over 50 & am not diabetic. Im fact, I’m overall pretty damn healthy.
Also worthy of note: my father’s diabetes was untreated for over 20 years (yes, MDs actually are the worst patients), then even when he was on treatment, he did ZERO exercise & routinely ate “all the wrong things.” He died at the age of 87 due to an infection he got from improper medical care when he had to be hospitalised for a relatively minor issue, and the doctors who normally treated him told us he would have gone on for years if it hadn’t been for that. So no, it wasn’t Teh Deathfatz that got him, it was shitty care from assholes who didn’t care.
I will say again, and will repeat until someone pushes the “fatz is kill U” line acknowledges it, until I see a significant number of studies that control for poor care/no care from medical providers AND the social stresses faced by fat people, I will not take that research seriously, because it is fatally fucking flawed.
Marijuana works on anandimide (sp?) receptors and there are none in the areas of the brain responsible for breathing and heart rate so as far as I know, you can’t overdose on marijuana unless it’s laced with something. Admittedly, my knowledge is a bit out of date so correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s my understanding.
Seshia, I’m guessing he actually took that quote from “Scarey Movie”. Tom Servo’s line is “I’m the wind, baby”, while the line from Scarey Movie is “I’m like the wind, baby”. I can’t imagine this asshat would be able to appreciate the wit and wisdom of MST3K, but Scarey Movie seems right up his alley.
I’ve seen so many cases of eating around bariatric surgery and it’s devastating because it happens to people who wanted to lose weight and did lose weight. All bariatric surgery does is make it impossible to eat large quantities in one sitting until you stretch your stomach out again. You can slowly eat all day and consume far more calories than your body needs. That, in conjunction with the stomach stretching right back out after bariatric surgery if you aren’t very strict with yourself, results in regaining of weight and all the associated health complications.
I’ve been very fat in the past and continue to struggle with my weight. Unfortunately for me, I’m one of those grazers who slowly eats all day so I know bariatric surgery would do no good for me. The only thing that does work for me is maintaining a high mood (because if I’m anxious and depressed, hating myself, I’ll lack the confidence and motivation to do ANYTHING) and counting calories. Fat-shaming makes the whole high mood part of that near impossible.
People sometimes fail to see that just because you can’t get fat in the absence of calories doesn’t mean there aren’t an enormous number of factors that contribute to people burning less calories than they consume, making weight loss really, really difficult. “Eat less/Burn more calories” isn’t easy! The world and, often, the better part of a lifetime of learnt behaviour contributes to us doing otherwise. Why we ingest more calories than we burn is a huge part of the issue and it’s not as simple as “Because you’re lazy”.
And if there are people happy being fat, leave them alone! No one ever gripes at me for playing sports and you bet all my sport-related injuries have burdened the healthcare system. Of course obesity is closely associated with numerous health complications but the notion all obese people are sick or that people who aren’t obese don’t burden society in some manner? Give me strength. Fat people are just an easy target because obesity is visible. As a result, the manner in which we treat them is fucked up.
@kupo + WWTH, I guess(?)
Turns out, I had a bit more time than I thought. Here goes the links:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19924114
THC and CBD have opposite effects
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2516340/
Lung cancer. This source says it’s worse than cigarettes, other’s say the opposite. It’s complicated
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2797098/
Up to 9% of users experience dependency
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25700287
Stroke risk can increase with use. Again, complicated
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2864503/
Cannabis is a ‘component cause’ (1of many, and the spectrum is vaguely defined anyway) in developing or exacerbating schizophrenia
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4187498/
1.8% of MJ related hospitalizations were fatal. Really low, but not nothing
@WWTH specifically
Cannabinoid receptors are most present in the central nervous system, but are also found elsewhere, including the cardiovascular system. CB1 receptors for the brain, and CB2 receptors for other places
ETA: someone might wanna double check my sources, on the good chance I don’t know what I’m talking