Men’s Rights Redditors came dangerously close to achieving a moment of self-awareness yesterday. But the crisis was averted, and the Men’s Rights subreddit was able to safely return to its habitual obliviousness, with all of its illusions intact.
Someone calling himself ffff1234 disturbed the universe of the Men’s Rights subreddit with a simple question yesterday: “Why is this subreddit frowned upon?”
Happily, the regulars were able to assure themselves that, despite all evidence to the contrary, it totally wasn’t their fault, nun-uh.
Their movement’s poor reputation in the wider world is, rather, the result of devious machinations by “feminazi overlords” who see the brave little Men’s Rights subreddit, and MRAs generally, as a threat to their continued hegemony.
“The people in power always hate the truth,” declared rg57.
“[W]e work against the plutocracy’s interests,” agreed the longtime MRA and terrible cartoon writer known as ThePigmanAgain. “That’s what it really comes down to.”
The plutocrats in question? Feminists. Or, rather, feminazis.
As Adanu0 put it
the feminazis hate it when you call out their bullsh*t, and this place does it all the time. We are the epitome of freedom of speech compared to them, and they want to keep their special snowflake narrative alive.
In a followup comment, he explained that
If you’re male, there is no existing with the feminazis, because their whole goal is the destruction of ‘the patriarchy’. This effectively means any form of male power is frowned upon and a target.
Anyone who thinks that is a good thing is ridiculous and belongs in that sub, slaving to the feminazi overlords.
I’m going to make this last bit my standard answer when anyone asks what I’m up to.
“Hey, David, what’s up?”
“Not much! Just SLAVING TO THE FEMINAZI OVERLORDS.”
K1NTOUN, meanwhile, warned his fellow MRAs not to underestimate their wily feminist foes.
They don’t give a damn about men or men’s rights. Equality means nothing to them. It’s merely a buzzword they use. Modern feminism is one group that can be completely generalized because they are all the same. There are no levels of feminism. You either accept the doctrine or you don’t.
Other commenters noted sadly that feminazi propaganda has infected much of society, leading many men to conclude that, contrary to MRA TRUTH, maybe women don’t actually run the world.
“Women are special creatures who are the peers of children when it suits them and the peers of men when it suits them,” lamented v573v.
Whatever women want – men must facilitate – including taking the blame for the demands that women place on men.
Either that, or women are capable human beings with an ability and power of their own, but if that was true – the victim card couldn’t be played; or perhaps the card is just another source of power which women can use as a path to power – a damsel in distress can inspire men to move mountains and under these rules women get the additional benefit of blaming men for anything bad that might of happened when the mountains were moved. Everybody wins! Except men, but they don’t count.
One bold fellow noted a parallel between the Men’s Rights movement and another movement that’s frequently frowned upon by polite society. The Men’s Rights subreddit is frowned upon, pazz explained,
For the same reason White Pride is. People always re-phrase it as a double negative and it changes the meaning. I am Pro-White and proud of my history is heard as I am Anti-Non-White and hate everything about you. Which is horrible.
Similar translations happen when you say I am Pro-Mens Rights. People hear I am Anti-Womens Rights. Which is horrible.
Like the rest of those I’ve quoted here, pazz was upvoted for his thoughtful stance.
Thus providing yet more evidence of some of the real reasons why people look down upon the Men’s Rights subreddit.
@ iseult
Wow, that is one radical raccoon!
(Hmm, like the sound of that, anyone know the phone number for Hannah Barbera?)
“Modern feminism is one group that can be completely generalized because they are all the same. There are no levels of feminism. You either accept the doctrine or you don’t.”
I wonder if this guy applies the same logic to his own ideology when the media confuses say, PUAs and MGTOWs.
What’s with their hang up with victimhood?
“If you’re ever a victim, you cannot be considered an adult who should have free reign over your own life!
Unless you’re a dude.”
You know, I’ve been pretty vocal in how much I dislike plutocrats and how much their ideals pretty much kill the future of countries for short term gains. You can imagine just how pissed off I am that they call themselves anti plutocrats, and then blame feminism for plutocracy.
Real plutocrats are the one in The Big Short, real plutocrats use knowingly toxic packages because they will be bailed out with no consequences to them, real plutocrats ensure that they get pretty much everything they want and do get what they want, real plutocrats make sure that any form of Wall Street regulation never happens. Real plutocrats make sure citizens United stays, and have similar cases apply to states as well. Real plutocrats speed up the TPP and be in support of it until popular opinion says to drop the issue for a bit.
What has these people done to counter that? Did they help with WolfPAC, a concerted effort to remove money in politics? No. Are they in the streets to proclaim their views in protest? No. Have they encouraged people to vote more, so they can have power? I can’t say that they have. Do these people support essentially people on meltdown like Trump and his fucking shit? Absolutely.
I wonder how they feel about Cornel West? Probably not very positive things.
So don’t give me that crap MRAs, if you actually gave a damn about plutocracy, that would mean you have to give up the idea that someday, the upper will grant you the option of being CEO, of being in power. And we all know that isn’t going to fucking happen.
@Pavlov’s House
That seems to be common across a lot of bigoted ideologies. MRAs, White Nationalists, anti-LGBT groups. There needs to be a clear “us” vs. “them.” No time for pondering the complexities of human interaction!
I’ve been meaning to say this for a while, but I’d just like to acknowledge occasional reader’s unfailing courtesy. It’s a nice touch.
So, their defense of the MRM is that it’s like white nationalism?
There are not enough Picard facepalms in the world.
@WWTH
Speaking of which, here’s an article of a GOP intellectual explaining why the GOP WILL die. More specifically how conservatism is wedded to white supremecism
http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12256510/republican-party-trump-avik-roy
Really puts everything into perspective. I mean it really goes in depth how the GOP slipped further and further with White Identity Politics, and how Trump isn’t some random occurrence, but a result of decades of propoganda.
@Alan
Way off-topic, but cabbage is an invasive species now? Is it going to be banned too, or is this another curvy banana story? From my mostly culinary knowledge of cabbage, it’s a product of Dutch botanists who bred the many edible varieties of Brassica we now have (broccolli, cauliflour, and Brussel’s sprouts being a few). It sounds ludicrous, which makes me think I’m missing something.
Bakunin, far as I can tell it’s just an american variety of swamp cabbage that’s considered an invasive species, which, well. it is. Choking out the native flora of scottish bogs. And, honestly, they’re pretty protective of their bogs. Would you like your high quality scotch to taste cabbage’y, after all?
#notallcabbages
But the American skunk cabbage truly seems like US foreign policy in brassica form, muscling in and ruining the place.
One of the banned species is the “Virile crayfish”! See, even crayfish experience misandry!
Shannon:
That’s victim blaming, and from a pretty privileged position. She may not have bought any plates: crockery is a frequent wedding gift, and also commonly given by parents to kids leaving home. Maybe she can’t afford any good plates?
I’ve just realised that I have only two plates left of the set my mother gave me when I left home, all those years ago, and now I have feels. Still got my engraved baby spoon, though.
Can we ban skunk cabbage from the US, too? That stench…
As someone in a similar situation (who is actually moving out VERY soon), you have my sympathies, and all the kittens, and all the hugs.
I can’t say anything around my family either without worrying about them talking behind my back and starting another argument which will inevitably devolve into another shouting match where I’m crying and obviously in distress and yelling just to be heard, and will be shouted at that those are signs of a vague “attitude” and how everyone’s tired of it and how I’m such a bad person for yelling and crying when I’m being yelled at. (Never mind the thoughts of suicide I had to ask Jackie and other people to talk me out of because I didn’t want to kill myself, but my brain was trying to tell me it was the only way to make my family happy.)
So, I learned to bite my tongue unless someone else (another of the elders) agreed with me.
I recently got back on Facebook so I can keep in contact with other members of my family, and within five minutes I was reminded why I hated Facebook in the first place. Constant racism and bigotry everywhere.
And I can’t say shit to them because they don’t listen to reason. Hell, I had to explain to my uncle that someone didn’t deserve to be shot and killed for disobeying the police recently.
I had to argue with him that there are non-lethal ways to deal with people that don’t involve killing them.
So, yeah, all the hugs.
And if you want some advice on moving out of that situation, please feel free to ask. I’m currently doing that right now, and I do have some tips and stuff I can give you in terms of gathering funds and moving your stuff.
@PteroNychus:
My support goes out to you. Living with and being dependent upon emotionally harmful parents is a terrible thing. You are not alone, and there’s a whole world out there for you. If you ever need anyone to talk to, I can be available.
@Scildfreja, occasional reader:
Good to see you back!
@Ooglyboggles:
A similar story comes from Chris Ladd’s resignation letter from the Republican Party.
https://goplifer.com/2016/07/22/resignation-letter/
(His archives are extensive and excellent, if you like Cassandra prophecies. Trigger warning for very ableist language.)
I’m disappointed at the extent to which people like them have seen this happen and then done nothing about it until it’s too late; but by the abysmally low standards of the GOP they’re still the good ones.
If I had a big house with lots of rooms I would so offer to house Mammotheers in need. Hugs for anyone who wants them.
I realise now that skunk cabbage is a type of cabbage and not a type of skunk.
(in my defence all the other things in the headline are small furry animals)
@EJ (The Other One)
I’m still going to be tee’d off by how GOP lifer’s beliefs pretty much kill any discussion of breaking the two party system. It’s blatantly rigged so third party candidates become essentially leeches to the main parties, siphoning off precious votes needed to win.
But that aside it’s pretty much as I expected, it’s wondrous how wilful ignorance can keep you in a bubble for literal decades. I still have no reservations when I say that the GOP is now incapable of gradual change needed to avoid becoming obsolete to millenial voters and newer generations. Especially when minority populations are growing day by day. GOP will go the way of the Whigs either by self cannibalism or by a rise of a new party that’s more center right.
At day’s end, I still have no sympathy for the GOP intellectuals who sacrificed their wisdom and moral fiber to keep airs of delusion. I really don’t.
@ Pteronychus
*hugs* if desired and sympathies for your situation.
@Paradoxy
I’m lucky enough that my family are mostly pretty woke, so I don’t have much problem with that crap on my feed.
@both: feel free to look me up by the non-camelid part of my name if you’d like to.
@Ooglyboggles
It really doesn’t. The degree to which the Republicans are devoted to white supremacy has not changed one iota since 1964.
From the article:
The conservative movement has never been devoted to the principle of equality for all; it intrinsically cannot be. Conservatism seeks to conserve power and privilege, and as such is antithetical to the idea of equality for all. Vacuous clowns like this jerk or George Will have tried to cloak their vicious racism, classism, and misogyny with five-dollar words and pretzel logic, but they’ve never in their lives stood for anything different than Donald Trump, or for that matter David Duke.
Highlights from my in-laws so far this trip:
FiL: The Supreme Court is constantly overstepping its boundaries! (Me: How so?) FiL: They’re supposed to INTERPRET the law, not CREATE laws. (Me: When have they created laws?) FiL: Roe v Wade, for example. (Me: Isn’t Roe v Wade the Supreme Court’s interpretation of the due process clause as mentioned in the 14th and 5th amendments, as well as an interpretation of what is meant by fundamental inalienable rights?) FiL: No. Have you read the constitution? (Me: Yeah.) FiL: There’s nothing like that in there.
MiL: The terrorists say they will come here if we let in refugees. So obviously we can’t take any refugees! Duh!
FiL: I don’t have a problem with Muslims! I have a Muslim co-worker. Did you know that?
FiL: Obama is the first President who doesn’t believe in The American Dream. (Me: What does that mean?) FiL: I’m not sure. (Me: It’s just a feeling?) FiL: Yes.
MiL: We are very generous in this country. We allow people to visit and live here, and we don’t demand that they agree with the government. (Me: That’s a pretty low bar, don’t you think?) MiL: No, it’s a high bar! Most countries wouldn’t allow that. (Me: Hmm.) MiL: Why should someone expect to be allowed into the country when they don’t agree with the government? (Me: But… you don’t agree with the government right now.) MiL: Exactly! Because I’m American! (Me: Hm.)
MiL: Gay rights are bad for this country. (Me: Should women have rights?) MiL: Yes of course. (Me: What about black people. Should they have rights?) MiL: Yes! (Me: But not gay people?) MiL: They shouldn’t have special rights. (Me: Right. But they should have equal rights.) MiL: I just don’t think it’s a good thing for the country. (Me: What specifically isn’t a good thing?) MiL: Gay rights! (Me: Err…)
MiL: I agree with Trump on the most important issues. (Me: Such as?) MiL: Gay rights. (Me: Trump isn’t opposed to gay rights.) MiL: Well, there are other things too. (Me: Such as?) MiL: All kinds of things!
FiL: I have a good friend who’s a liberal Democrat Jew, and even he says Obama doesn’t care about America. (Me: Did he say why he believes that?) FiL: Because he doesn’t believe in The American Dream! He believes in giving people free stuff! (Me: Your liberal friend sounds an awful lot like a Fox News pundit.) FiL: Most Americans would agree with me. (Me: Then why did Obama win the popular vote in two elections?) FiL: I don’t know, you’d have to ask them. (Me: But… that doesn’t make any… never mind.)
FiL (drunk at a crowded restaurant): THERE’S NO SUCH THING AS REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS FOR WOMEN. IT’S BULLSHIT.
MiL: Abortion is mainly used as contraception. (Me: Why do you think that?) MiL: I’ve seen it! It’s so quick and easy. (Me: What do you think is easier, using birth control or having an abortion?) MiL: What do you mean? (Me: I mean that it seems like less work to for example use a condom than to go through an abortion.) MiL: Well I don’t know why they do it! They just don’t care about the babies. (Me: Maybe it’s more complicated than that? Maybe you don’t know the whole story in each case?) MiL: No, trust me, I do.
FiL: I just want to Make America Great Again. (Me: What does that mean?) FiL: We’re not as respected around the world as we used to be. (Me: And why is that?) FiL: We’re seen as weak. (Me: What does that mean?) FiL: They don’t fear and respect us anymore, because Obama doesn’t love America. (Me: What specifically did Obama do to make that happen?) FiL: I don’t know exactly, it’s just that he doesn’t love this country. (Me: And why do you think that? It’s just a feeling?) FiL: It’s a feeling that most Americans share. (Me: How do you know that?) FiL: Well, that’s just how it is.
MiL: Things are not going in the right direction in this country. We’re tired of the status quo. At least Trump will come in with a different perapective and shake things up. Maybe it will be bad, maybe it will be great. At least it won’t be more of the same. (Me: What specifically isn’t going in the right direction?) MiL: Unemployment is at an all time high! (Me: Why do you say that? We talked about this yesterday, so you know it’s not remotely true. Unemployment has gone way down under Obama.) MiL: Yes, but this isn’t just Obama. It’s been going up for a long time. (Me: But under Obama it’s gone down.) MiL: But for a long time it’s gotten worse! (Me: Do you mean under W Bush?) MiL: Yes, for example. (Me: You voted for him, right?) MiL: Yeah, because it was better than the Democrats! (Me: But you just agreed that unemployment has gone down under Obama.) MiL: Yes! But that’s not the only reason I’m a Republican! (Me: What are the real reasons, then?) MiL: We’re just not going in the right direction right now.
(Me: …)
I know I shouldn’t try to reason with conservatives, but I just can’t be quiet sometimes. I love being here for vacation, but this family drives me up the wall. Grrrrrrrr.
Scildfreja is back (sorry, I feared the worst) and MR Occasional Reader is back to occasionally reading. It’s a good day ?
@Ptero
You are human, you have ideas, and, if you’re willing, I’m up to hear them. Whatever you want. Also, it’s not cowardice to talk to people about your problems. It’s not cowardice to share a part of your life with (supportive tho we are) strangers on the internet. You’re brave, giving yourself some TLC is brave, and staying alive is brave. Sending love and hugs if ya like <3?<3
Sorry if I scared people! I have been reading, just haven’t been commenting. Been reading later on in the day, so the conversation has already moved far along by the time I get here. Not sure what to say!
@Dalillama
For me it gives me insight for those who have not yet bailed out of the GOP, an interesting perspective of how cognitive dissonance can work in a group. I do agree with you 100% that both with your words, my research and the author of the Vox article I linked, all pretty much stated that conservative politics of limited government, and by extension limited control over powerful individuals, just is not for the people, and just doesn’t work.
@IP
Oh my stars, that just sounds like the most aggravating thing. It’s like a combination of circular logic mixed in with some “it’s just common sense” spiel.
@Ptero
Best of lucks to you.
@IP
Super uncool question, but… You said your otter has a Spanish name. Are they Latinx, Spanish, or just have the name? Sorry, I’m just tryna do the math on what the fuck is going on here
ETA
@Scildfreja
No worries. It wasn’t you. Some other people said some stuff about you, and, after reading thru some pretty harrowing posts, my imagination was too fast for my chill to catch. Don’t feel bad
@Axecalibur
Cuban father. He pulled himself up by the bootstraps, so everybody else should too! He made it in America, so there can’t possibly be any discrimination! Sigh.