The Internet’s worst people have a new woman to hate: Ghostbusters star Leslie Jones

Interesting project on the history of misogyny….

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2016/jul/20/ive-seen-horrible-things-photographer-laia-abril-on-her-history-of-misogyny

This reminds me of videos saying that this is restricting dissent. When the dissent are literal nazis, bigots, anti semites/gay/trans/women and such, I really don’t see the argument having grounds.

There’s dissenting opinions and there’s being a douchecanoe. If they had said something like ”I didn’t like the movie. The plot was full of holes, the passing was a mess, the timing of the jokes didn’t work, the effects looked cheap, etc.” I doubt anyone would be calling them douchecanoes. Because it’s fine to not like something, it’s fine to have a discussion about it. But it has to be a discussion. Some of these charmers just go around typing/yelling ”Ugly bitches lol stupid apes! I’d never f*ck them, women are stupid and can’t act, f*ing C U Next Tuesdays!” and when they get blocked, they turn around and complain that clearly you didn’t want to engage them in a discussion on the film. But it’s not a discussion, it’s a temper tantrum.
If they want to be treated like adults and have discussions with people, they should probably start acting like adults and not cranky toddlers.

Bryce – “Don’t feed the trolls” doesn’t do shit. The trolls are mostly putting on a show for each other. The victim shouldn’t have to silently wade through that. GG is kind of proof that even people like Anita who don’t engage and argue with harassers still get it just as bad.

I celebrate the banning waves. Thing improve, but at a frustratingly slow rate.

And I agree with Axe that the tech industry is the worse. I am trying to do my part to change it at that level, but it’s frustratingly hard to make progress without being rejected for “radical” opinion. And I am not exactly a big or very involved activist, so I guess that for “real” feminists it’s hellish.

@ weatherwax

I (I’m British and live in the UK) had never heard of her before this film. I shall be looking out for her from now on, because she did a sterling job.

I was in the same position so I checked out some of her stuff on YouTube.

I think it’s a mark of a great comedian when they leave you with a line that makes you giggle every time you think of it. I’m pleased to say that Leslie Jones passes that test with flying colours.

“They’re not called kitchen lions”

I’m laughing just typing that. The skit leading up to that is brilliant and her delivery is amazing.

BTW, I have seen three film in the last ten year, and tend to hate sequel, and did not like Ghostbuster all that much to begin with. Is it worth it to go a bit against my nature to see it ? The idea of pissing off MRAs is alway fund, but the habit of Hollywood of rebooting and sequeling everything turn me off.

Hollywood has been remaking things and churning out sequels practically since its inception (look up the umpteen versions of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde on the IMDB, or the SEVEN Francis the Talking Mule films!), so it’s really up to you.

@ Ohlman

Given what you’ve said about your film-going habits and preferences, I’m loath to recommend you going to see something you are unlikely to enjoy.

There are lots of things about the film to appreciate, but I don’t think Leslie Jones or the wider issues benefit from someone not enjoying the film. Maybe see how you feel when it’s out on DVD? In the meantime, there have to be other ways to support the victims of trolling (or increased diversity in film-making, or whatever you are particularly interested in).

My immediate take on the film was that it was a funny popcorn film. The sub textual elements that are way more radical have been sinking in over the last day or so. I mean, for example, the action scenes have the heroines wearing practical outfits that help them do their job, without exposing vast acres of flesh, being skintight or requiring them to bend themselves like a pretzel for the benefit of the camera. Or that I don’t recall McCarthy’s body shape being fuel for even one joke. Pretty revolutionary for today’s Hollywood. I think you may enjoy that, but perhaps not enough to overshadow your reservations.

Hope that helps.

@Bryce @kupo

She brought the issue to light by retweeting their disgusting behavior. Ignoring hate mobs doesn’t solve anything. Neither does blaming her for any of what happened.

Yep, I was thinking this too. I saw some of the shitmongers celebrate that she had “taken the bait hard” and that it was enjoyable to see her meltdown, but I think that’s exactly what everyone should do. If only because bringing it to light will show all those on the fence who think “maybe it’s not that bad” that it really is that bad. Staying silent will solve nothing.

@bekabot

In Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand has one of her expy characters say that in the last analysis there’s no way to punish any man (read: “human”) except through guilt (“what he has accepted as guilt”) — though she might also have mentioned shame, which works as well or better. Here’s the quote:

“If a man has ever stolen a dime, you can impose on him the punishment intended for a bank robber and he will take it. He’ll bear any form of misery and he’ll feel that he deserves it.”

And here’s the kicker:

“If there’s not enough guilt in the world, then we must create it.”

(Though once again I think she should have added “shame”.)

Gotta admit she wasn’t wrong about everything…

By create it, Rand means to put the takers in their proper, subservient place. Her protagonists were sociopaths who never felt guilt or shame. She thought empathy was a sign of degeneracy.

If Ayn Rand were to look at this twitter fight and his career in general, she would consider Milo to be the hero precisely because he’s a sociopath, at least in his public dealings. He shows no sign of guilt or shame. He does what he wants without caring about how it affects other people, except when he is being a sadist and intentionally trying to hurt people.

Yes, Ayn Rand was wrong about everything.

@Bryce

It’s a shame she felt the need to engage them directly rather than just report them, it doesn’t do much except demonstrate harassment having its desired effect. Bout time twitter properly moderated their own platform.

Literally any response from Leslie Jones would be taken as evidence by these people that their harassment is working. And Twitter would have done exactly nothing if Leslie Jones had tried to work within the system and simply reported them.

We need to stop giving a shit whether harassers think they’ve won whatever game they think they’re playing. They’re convinced before they even start that they’re right, you’re the bad guy and literally any response on your part will be seen as a victory in their eyes. Either you’re angry, or they successfully drove you off twitter, or they drew attention to their “cause” or whatever. They’ll spin it whatever way it needs to be spun to convince themselves that their behavior is good and right and just.

Changing what we do based on what we anticipate the harassers inferring from it is still letting them call the shots. Decent human beings need to do what results in the desired outcome; harassers getting banned in this case. If some abusive, reactionary shit faps to the idea that he made someone angry or what-the-fuck-ever they think the win condition of this “game” is, so fucking what?

There’s no “right” way to respond to harassment that will get the fuckheads to realize their assholery and stop, short of having a robust moderation system in place that makes it very inconvenient for them to even try. Singular responses do diddly squat, partially because of the massive sizes of Internet hate mobs. Even if ignoring them discouraged some harassers, there are plenty more whom it would infuriate and encourage.

Basically, don’t put the responsibility of stopping harassment on the victim, it’s a shitty thing to do.