A specter haunts the Internet’s angry men. The specter that the new Ghostbusters movie with all the ladies in it might actually be, you know, good.
Angry dudes have been throwing Internet hissy fits over the new lady-fied Ghostbusters since they first learned of its lady-fied nature early last year; indeed, the fellas at the famously lady-hating site Return of Kings started boycotting the film back in March, even though there was no film yet to boycott.
From RoK to Reddit to YouTube, the Internet’s angriest men agreed that the film was going to be the worst thing to hit men since the ladies got the right to vote, or something.
Now, with the film hitting theaters in the US this Friday, and already playing in the UK and Ireland, the first reviews are coming out.
And so far they’re not bad. The film boasts a 76% rating on Rotten Tomatoes at the moment, and some of the reviews are actually pretty enthusiastic, with more than a few critics suggesting that the Ghostbusting ladies are the best part of the film.
In the Daily Beast, Jen Yamato derided the film’s “lulls in pacing” and “choppy editing,” before hailing the gals at the film’s center:
[W]ith a crackling sense of purpose and a surplus of reverence for their predecessors, new Ghostbusters Wiig, McCarthy, McKinnon, and Jones plant their own flag on a beloved sci-fi comedy franchise.
For haters of the Lady Ghostbusters, it’s a nightmare, sweetie, as Patsy from AbFab would say, though I’m pretty sure the anti-Lady-Ghostbusters crowd wouldn’t find her funny either.
On Reddit, naturally, there is much wailing and gnashing of teeth. In Kotaku in Action, Reddit’s main hangout for GamerGate true believers, one of he highest-rated comments in the Ghostbusters 2016 Review Megathread blasts those giving the film good reviews as “cucks for Sony.” Others offered similar explanations.
One commenter accused the critics who liked the film of the apparently unpardonable sin of being … writers.
Over in the Ghostbusters subreddit — because of course there is a Ghostbusters subreddit, and of course it’s full of Lady-Ghsotbuster haters — some of the regulars are trying their best to keep the dream alive, the dream in question being the dream that Lady Ghostbusters will still turn out to really suck, positive reviews be damned!
One irate fellow, insisting he wasn’t rooting for the film to fail, attacked Sony for allegedly throwing a tantrum.
I never wanted the film to be “garbage”, I wanted to have a movie I could enjoy watching. But the moment Sony, Feig, and everyone else involved decided that personal attacks against the public was how they wanted to promote this film, then I simply can’t support it. It could literally be a better film than the original (which it’s not) and I still would not watch it because of the horrible taste left by the filmmaking team’s behavior.
I am not a simpleton who is pursuaded by “like this movie or you’re a misogynist hater”, and since that is the tact they choose, I have to opt out entirely on principle. I do not want this to become a recurring trend with future entertainment endeavors.
I will not be spending a dime on anything related to Ghostbusters 2016. No toys, no movie tickets, no Blu Rays, and no Lego or Lego Dimensions sets. I do not endorse childish tantrums by big studios.
So take that, Sony! This total non-tantrum-haver is taking his Legos (which include no Lady Ghostbusters sets) and going home.
The culture war is weird, man.
@ varalys
It’s a movement within the Labour Party. Ostensibly its aim is to get grassroots support to move Labour back to its more socialist roots (and it has had success there).
Unfortunately there’s at least an element that isn’t above misogynistic and homophobic abuse against anyone they see as traitors to the Labour Party (i.e. MPs who don’t support Corbyn). Corbyn hasn’t done himself any favours in this regard. Whilst it’s not necessarily a balanced sample, my women friends who supported Corbyn initially really want him to come out and condemn this, rather than talk about the “rough and tumble” of politics. The fact that he objected to the NEC ballot being in secret so those who voted against him could be held “accountable” hasn’t gone down well either.
But the key thing was just how similar we found this to Gamergate; and now we have the allegations that women are lying about harassment to make the movement look bad. There’s probably an article to be written here on the comparison.
@Alan
I know nothing of this story, but like:
Unless that “first blush” was in 2012 or summat, then nah. If you’ve been unfortunate enough to be unable to avoid #GG or the like, you know there’s nothing less weird than sexist, homophobic, racist, etc ‘Lefties’. It’s damn near a brand at this point
‘Wealth inequality between rich and poor is real but not the gender pay gap.’ ‘Wars are bad, but the Muslims deserve it anyway.’ Maher, Harris, d’Akkad. They all claim ‘the left’ to some degree or another. This ain’t new, yo, and it ain’t surprising
@Alan: Thanks for the summary, I’m in the weird position that Labour has never been leftwing enough for me. Now I have to admit I have become somewhat disengaged from politics and nothing I hear back about it makes me want to re-engage. My 20 year old self would be horrified at my apathy but there we go.
We were talking about this last night and we were wondering how long before an allegation that the women MPs were faking the abuse for attention came up. Didn’t have to wait long.
“Bitches lie” has been a thing since ever.
The thread’s gone on for awhile, but my spouse and I just saw the new ghostbusters, and I liked it. At times, I wasn’t sure if they were going for ‘spoof’ or ‘reboot’, but it worked for us.
@dslucia
Every time The Mary Sue does an article about the misogynists there are a bunch of people stamping their feet in the comments section about how everyone is being so unfair in labeling everyone who hates the trailer as misogynists. I’ve tried asking those people where anyone has ever said that everyone who hates the trailer is a misogynist but they just say it’s everywhere in the comments. I usually read a good amount if not all of the comments on those articles and I just don’t see that happening. I think when people say things like “the misogynists who hate the reboot” they assume people are saying anyone who hates the reboot is a misogynist. But really we’re talking about the people who freaked out as soon as the cast was announced or who are arguing that because there aren’t a lot of women exterminators we can’t have women ghostbusters or who post vile, misogynistic comments basically everywhere.
@ varalys
You’d get on with some of my friends; they thought Corbyn would have been ok if he wasn’t so right wing.
Funnily enough though I can see some force in their views. I’m pretty ok with capitalism per se (I won’t derail further by a polemic on why what passes for capitalism today isn’t) but I, and even some of my very pro-market Tory friends, didn’t find Corbyn’s economic policies that radical. If the chairman of the CBI had suggested bringing some critical national infrastructure back into public ownership and pumping a bit more cash into the economy, no-one would have batted an eye-lid.
Western European political economics nowadays seems to have settled around a neo-liberal centre with just a few minor cosmetic differences in how to implement that.
@kupo:
Yeah, it’s basically just them trying to make unfalsifiable claims. Like, how do you even prove that everyone is being called a misogynist? And where does the standard lie? If one single person on Twitter or Tumblr did it, would that be enough to justify it? Because, then, if one single person disagrees with that and specifies who they’re actually targeting, how is that not enough to disprove the original hypothesis, re: everyone who hates Ghostbusters is a misogynist?
In fact, it’s exactly like GrippleGrub; a few articles talked about how a very specific usage of a very specific term had little meaning anymore and the toxic subset of the community who ardently held onto it should be excised, and the gaming community took that to literally mean that all gamers in the entire world were suddenly no longer wanted.
Sigh.
@Axe ‘Danger’ Calibur:
I feel like that whole thing is kind of why America’s left-wing is largely equivalent to the center-right of the majority of the rest of the world in the first place. Like, the fact that people can seriously call themselves liberals while spouting homophobia, or transphobia, or misogyny, or Islamophobia, or advocating for the banning of abortions, or myriad other things just shows how weirdly skewed the whole system is in the first place, if you ask me.
There’s certainly a large extent to which politics in the western world in the last ten years has been a matter of choosing which colour of rosette you’d like your Davos-bound austerity-supporting neoliberal to wear. I think part of the Trump/Orbán/Johnson resurgence of the right, as well as its left-wing mirror under Corbyn and Sanders, is part of a reaction to that. Faced with a choice between conventional parties which are openly contemptuous of their voters, I can entirely understand why people would choose extreme groups, even if those groups do not have workable policies.
Momentum, speaking as someone who sympathises with it, is a movement which definitely uses cynical and ruthless political techniques. I’m not surprised that a lot of those techniques have also been used by #GG, because there are only so many ways to run an ideologically-driven insurgency. It’s a textbook example of what communists might call a revolutionary vanguard party.
@dslucia
Nope. That right there, I suppose you could call it my pet peeve. Why are we plotting the whole world on an oversimplistic ‘left/right’ line, and then saying a country’s own internal politics is thereby wrong? Not morally wrong, mind, but semantically incorrect somehow
And it’s not even accurate. Who’s this “rest of the world” I keep hearing about. If we’re comparing, the head of the Democratic party, the literal ‘left wing’ (they sit on the left side in Congress) in this country, is Obama. There are, minimum, 193 countries. Are you gonna tell me that Obama is to ‘the right’ of the leadership of 97 countries? To ‘the right’ of the more left leaning party in 97 countries? Make the case
Here’s the point. ‘Left’ and ‘right’ aren’t terms that have any specific meaning. They’re nebulous terms, the function of which is division. They’re dogwhistles, meant to allow us to hate the literal ‘other side’. Way easier when you have a team name/color. Then, when someone who claims to be on our team fucks around, we get to say ‘those assholes aren’t our assholes. They’re your assholes’ We’re ‘regressives’, they’re ‘brocialists’ and, most importantly, our in group is untarnished
I’m basically done pretending the #BernieorBust idiots complaining about suffragium ad vaginam aren’t just me but worse. They aren’t some external force invading ‘the left’. They’ve been here forever, a lot of us simply didn’t notice until a woman (1 of many) was terrorized for having sex and making video games (oh noez) /rant
*Dejected shrug, feigned but reassuring smile to myself*
Has anyone watched the new Netflix show Stranger Things yet? I’m just starting the final episode now. It’s so good! Especially if you like 80’s fantasy and horror. The movies it’s most obviously an homage to would be E.T. and Firestarter. There’s also some Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Poltergeist, and Nightmare on Elm Street Imagery. There’s probably a lot more visual references I didn’t notice the first time around. There’s also some Lovecraftian type stuff in there. So I really, really recommend it for anyone who likes either 80’s horror of the Cthulu mythos or both.
@Axecalibur: I think I agree with your point that other countries use different labels for ‘left’ and ‘right’ than we do. When I was in Nicaragua last year, they said ‘Right is old money, left is new money, socialist is no money’, and that might be part of the confusion.
Also, I definitely agree that the two-party system here is a misnomer that works more to make the electorate think in black and white than actually represent anyones policies.. I think the most simple way I’ve seen American politics described that isn’t ludicrously wrong charted those four ‘movements’ (liberalism, conservatism, populism, and libertarianism) against two axis, one representing the amount of government involvement in social matters, the other representing government involvement in fiscal matters. On that chart, liberalism is lots of government control in fiscal, little government control in social, libertarianism is little government control in either, and conservatism and populism are the opposites of liberalism and libertarianism, respectively. Still over-simplified (gun rights jumps to mind), but closer.
Can anyone from Europe (Alan, EJ maybe) clarify what, exactly, ‘neoliberal’ means? My understanding is that ‘neoliberal’ referred to what I learned in government as ‘classical liberalism’, or a lazes-faire type economy where the government does as little as possible, in which case it would be more like what we call conservative or libertarian here (not sure what ‘neoliberals’ think about social issues).
@WWTH: Thanks for reminding me that ‘stranger things’ is available now. I’ll try to get into it this week.
@ jokester
If you want an intelligent informed answer then that’s definitely going to have to be EJ 🙂
[But the interpretation I use is an economic one; rather than a wider platform. ‘Light touch regulation free market’ is perhaps an oversimplistic definition]
Ah, sorry I didn’t see this for five days!
The problems I’ve seen with the reboot are kind of aesthetic, as I’ve heard a lot of people tell it. The style’s so vastly different that it doesn’t even look like the same show anymore, but something new that has the story of PPG slapped over it.
It also looks like it’s trying way too hard to appeal to kids, mostly because CN put out toys before the show, and not the other way around. Just because Hasbro can do it, doesn’t mean everyone else can, CN. Especially when the show you’re rebooting did it the other way around, so the story felt more natural and not a plug for cheap hunks of plastic and screws.
They also removed Miss Bellum, as she “wasn’t a good role model for girls”, and lots of people (myself included) were baffled by this notion that a woman who was arguably the most competent person in Townsville “wasn’t a good role model”. She was also a perfect foil to the bumbling (though adorable) Mayor.
Seshia also brought up the episode about transgender issues as well, and that was billed as being an episode for the transgender community, but it apparently was very obvious that it was written by cis people who really had no idea about anything in relation to trans issues.
And there’s also the twerking while kids are on drugs bit. That’s important too.
That’s the song that convinced me to (eventually) watch that show. IT’S SO GOOD AND I LOVE IT AND I WANT TO MAKE IT MY LIFE’S THEME SONG.
And now on to the actually recent comments. 😛
I had to actually think about this for a second. My gut says “NOOOOO”, but only because I know they’re bad, but my brain also says “But bad things are good examples too.”
So I would say yes, absolutely walk into them with low expectations. I would play them in order too, as (and this is damning with faint praise I imagine) Downpour is actually slightly better than Homecoming. At the very least, it shows signs of improvement over Homecoming.
Fun story: Homecoming was almost my first Silent Hill game. I didn’t get into Silent Hill into my 20’s (Resident Evil 3 ruined me on horror games when I was ten and I didn’t touch another until then), and I saw it used at a game store, but passed it up for a game I actually knew something about. Then my then-boyfriend lent me his copy of Silent Hill 2 for the PS2, and I was fucking hooked.
I’m so glad I didn’t pick up Homecoming. It would have ruined my chances of finding the good games.
I find that these distinctions tend to carry over, since what’s considered “horror” is influenced by society, not medium. If that makes sense.
I actually haven’t seen them (though I’ve been meaning to, promise)!
Though, I have actually heard of a game that many people compared to it (and that I had to look up walkthroughs of because it was only available in Japan, and was only released on Steam for PCs last month), Dangan Ronpa.
If you like strategy games that don’t have a lot of combat, you’ll like Dangan Ronpa one and two. The third game is a bit more of a spin-off and has actual combat.
Think Phoenix Wright with Battle Royale elements and intensity.
You’re playing as a student who is locked in a high school for teenagers who are the best in the world at what they do (in the first game, the second takes place in a resort, but still has the same kinds of kids) with fourteen other students. You’re told by a bear (who calls itself Monokuma) that the only way to escape is to kill one of your fellow students and get away with it.
Once a murder has been committed, there is a period of investigation where you search for clues and talk to people, and then you go to a “class trial” where everyone states their case and presents evidence.
If you choose the correct murderer, they get executed as punishment, and the game continues. If you pick the wrong murderer, everyone but the true murderer is executed as punishment, and they get to “graduate” and escape the school as a reward.
There’s also a cast of wonderfully designed characters, and my favorite is Sakura Oogami, the Super High School Level Fighter from the first game.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/9d5f480aea99d5f21278babcfd8d8916/tumblr_mpkkg0jj8N1r3nw4do1_500.gif
She’s a babe~
I highly recommend it, it’s really engaging and emotional and I actually cried a few times.
But I’m a huge crybaby who will cry when she’s happy or sad, so I don’t know how good of praise that is. XD
If I might borrow a turn of phrase: “A hit dog hollers”.
In other words, if it doesn’t affect you, Random Internet Dude, and you’re obviously not a misogynist as you’re insisting, why are you so upset by the implication that sexism has something to do with people hating on the Fem!Ghostbusters?
Of course, “misogynist” and “sexist” have reached the level of “rape” and “racism” of “Words That I Don’t Like to be Called Because They’re Bad, but I Still Like Being The Kind of Person Those Words Refer To.”
@PI
It’s a mix of that and the regulars being offended because they think they’re being lumped together with the misogynists.
If the article wasn’t clearly stating that if you don’t like the movie, then you’re a misogynist (and you clearly stated that they weren’t), then I think the “hit dog” policy stands.
I understand that it’s not a good thing to be bigoted, but some people are far more concerned with other people thinking they are than if they actually fucking are, and will tone police the SHIT out of people for daring to think they are anything but perfect little allies who love everyone and are completely Bigoted Thought-Free and incapable of being wrong or ignorant.
So, if you’re more concerned with being called a bigot or any variation thereof than actually having a discussion about real bigotry, then we’ve got nothing to talk about, and quite frankly, I find you a burden to feminism and civil rights as a whole, and I will continue to feel that way until you stop taking a visual tour of your colon.
This isn’t directed at you Kupo bee-tee-dubs, it’s just me venting my frustration with people like that in general.
Also, fun fact: My spell checker suggested I spell your usernym as “hookup”.
OT: Our dog had to be put to sleep on Friday, and I’m still pretty upset, so forgiveness if I’m a little less coherent than usual.
@Jokester
Originally the term referred to what we would now call social democracy, where a capitalist economy is tempered by regulation and strong social infrastructure. Latterly (the last several decades), it means austerity and extreme laissez-faire policies, to an even greater degree than ‘classical liberalism’. Also confusing the issue is that in the U.S. ‘liberal’ has come to mean relatively socially progressive and favoring social democratic types of policies.
They’re all shite, of course, but that’s another discussion.
Not much, usually.
@ dalillama
Oh so sorry about your dog; I know how fucking horrible that is. Hugs if you need them.
@Paradoxy
Mine is always correcting “thing” to “thong” which can be really hilarious at times.
@joekster:
Investopedia has a good definition of it here.
In America, the standard bearer for neoliberalism was Ronald Reagan; in Britain, Margaret Thatcher; and globally, Augusto Pinochet and his Chicago-influenced economic advisors.
Post 2007, it has come to refer to the school of economic and political thought that favours austerity and low interest rates over increased public spending and capital controls.
@PI
Preach!
Really? With a straight face!? I’m officially in the ‘fuck this show’ camp now. I was fine with her being gone, but not if that’s the reason
@Joek
The truth rejects simplicity. American politics is 200+ years and at least 6 systemic realignments focused on ever shifting coalitions. You simply can’t accurately plot that on a simple Cartesian plane. It’s an interesting exercise, but that’s the best it can hope to be
Dalillama I’m so sorry. That is one of the worst things ever. Sending you every good wish I can think of.
I remember seeing some footage you posted on line quite a while ago – seriously adorable dog, and clearly doted on. I hope you are ok.