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Is Return of Kings seriously suggesting that the best way to improve the lives of men today is to send a big chunk of them to die violent deaths in unnecessary wars?
It sure looks like it. In a post with the typically Return-of-Kingsy clickbait title “8 Factors That Are Destroying Healthy Relationships Between Men And Women,” regular RoK contributor Corey Savage seems to argue that the only way to restore the proper, er, balance between men and their naturally subordinate female companions is to kill off a lot of men.
Because we have “too few wars [and] too many men,” Savage declares, men have to work harder to impress women than they would if women dramatically outnumbered men. This “[e]xcess of men,” he complains. “means that the collective value of average men has dropped to a historical low.”
So, crank up that war machine, I guess!
How, you may wonder, did Savage manage to arrive at this, let call it provocative, conclusion?
As Savage sees it, the “continuing transformation of our society” has led “something [to go] awry with the relationship between men and women.”
In the good old days, Savage argues, men and women had a wonderfully symbiotic relationship — much like we humans have with horses.
No, really. Horses.
All relationships work best when two parties have something different to share for their mutual benefit. For example, humans and horses have enjoyed a close relationship together throughout history (unlike, say, humans and bears). The relationship works because in exchange for food, protection, and care that humans provide, the horses offer themselves as transportation.
Men and women used to have a similarly healthy partnership. Men provided women with food and shelter and the women, er, let the men ride them, as it were.
The relationship between men and women was also mutually beneficial for the entirety of human existence with men offering their services in exchange for having the women bear their children.
But no longer! Gone are the days when men hunted the mammoth and did all those other nice things for their once-grateful womenfolk.
Men have always provided for women. Men hunted for food, labored to build everything, and fought battles to defend their tribe. To say that men oppressed women throughout history is an insult to all those who sacrificed themselves in the factories, the coal mines, and the trenches. If women didn’t have certain rights that feminists like to cherry-pick, it’s because women weren’t drafted to fight wars. In exchange for their toil, the only thing men asked of women was to be supportive in their roles as wives and mothers.
Then “equality” came around and ruined things by allowing women a choice in the matter.
[F]ast-forward to today, now that women have “achieved” social and political “equality” and even various advantages just for being born a female, many women today no longer feel that it’s necessary to exchange values with men for mutuality. It’s like when humans developed automobiles and didn’t need horses anymore.
Well, no, If we go back to Savage’s original horse metaphor, it’s as though the horses got jobs and could pay their own bills without having to give people any rides.
And this is deeply unfair to all the men who would really like to keep riding the women. “[M]en’s sexual desire—which is greater than that of females—is still alive and kicking,” Savage complains.
So what we have today is a situation where women have gotten their social equality while sexual inequality persists for men … .
Yep. Men and their long-suffering boners are oppressed by the fact that women can say no to sex without starving to death.
Western women, in particular, have been so thoroughly sold on the idea of status and consumerist orgy that they are no longer interested in relationships. More and more women today are delaying marriage (if not outright rejecting it). And when they do get married, they are using it as a means to trap men into donating their sperm and cash, only to bail out when they want to.
Meanwhile, Savage complains, these evil ladies have all become sluts, despite not being interested in sex with men, thus “diminishing the availability of quality women that men want to start a family with.”
And did we mention Big Daddy government? In the happier days of yore, Savage reminds us,
men form[ed] relationships with women by exchanging values, with his strength to provide and protect being his greatest asset.
But now women can just suckle from the teat of, er, Big Daddy government.
[T]he government (along with corporations and education system) fulfills those roles that men previously occupied.
And even when the men of today manage to cajole one of these modern females into marriage, these ungrateful ladies will falsely accuse them of domestic violence to get them out of the way, leading Big Daddy government to send along teams of “professional white-knights” — otherwise known as police officers — “to extort and arrest men who’ve been used up and thrown away by women.”
It’s just terrible, Savage complains, that “the government is increasingly monopolizing violence, one of the most important value that a man possesses.”
Is he actually complaining that men don’t get to beat up their wives and girlfriends any more? Savage is such a bad writer that it’s impossible to tell.
But let’s set aside this question for a moment, because it’s at this point that Savage gets to the whole kill-dudes-to-make-life-better-for-dudes argument.
Back in the days when men were men and women were horses, Savage tells us, the world was a much more violent place. And that was apparently a very good thing: “[T]he more violent the environment is, the more masculine men become,” Savage writes.
And the more conflicts and wars there are, the more the women depend on men—thus keeping the collective value of [the] male population high.
Alas, those happily violent days are gone now.
It’s no coincidence that Western societies have started to feminize as they endured decades of relative peace since the end of WWII.
Dude, you do realize that the US has been in five wars (and involved in countless other conflicts) since the end of WWII, right? Is the problem that not enough men died in these wars?
The lack of warfare also means that there are now more young men per woman (practically 1 to 1) than there normally would have been under a warring society.
Huh. I guess Savage really does wish more men had died. Of course, one of the reasons the more recent wars that the US has been involved in have been less deadly, at least for Americans, is that we’ve gotten better at treating war injuries. Damn those military doctors for saving so many lives!
Excess of men—who are also emasculated and feminized—means that the collective value of average men has dropped to a historical low, upsetting the balance of sexual marketplace in the process.
Maybe this is why all these manosphere guys are so gung-ho for Trump. He would definitely get us into more wars.
Savage wraps up his portrait of today’s insufficiently violent gyno-dystopia by complaining that women are getting fat.
Many Western women have been corrupted by our toxic materialist society. They are fatter, uglier, more narcissistic, more entitled, hedonistic, superficial, less faithful, and seem to think that having bitch attitude makes them hip.
Not only that but some of these fat ugly ladies aren’t interested in having constant sex with us guys!
Women can afford to stoop low because their sex drive isn’t the same as men’s, while they couldn’t care less for love and companionship when they’re too busy with their travels and careers.
WHY OH WHY DON’T THESE UGLY WOMEN WE HATE WANT TO BE WITH US?
And because of all the thirsty men, women’s collective sexual market value hardly suffers while the value of those who are merely average becomes inflated beyond their real value.
Clearly, we’re long overdue for a truly devastating man-killing war. Apparently. only the death of hundreds of thousands of men will make Corey Savage’s boner happy again.
Yeah, ROK fails history forever if they think ‘wives and mothers’ had a cushy deal. Leaving aside the fact that raising children was (is) incredibly hard work, housework was pretty hardcore in the ages before labour saving devices. Laundry boilers and mangles could maim and kill you just as easily as coal mines would. But never mind all the women and girls that straight up caught fire while doing domestic chores, right? That stuff doesn’t count as ‘work’…
But every world war so far has resulted in greater rights for women. Because it turns out that when you run low on men, women start to take over 😛
Yes, exactly…inflicting the mass casualties of industrial warfare of the twentieth century required industrial production that, in turn, required the contributions of women.
To speak of war as only a man’s affair is nonsensical to anyone who knows Russian history and an insult to Russian and Soviet women. As a man and a soldier I anger at such insults and as a man who happens to love a Russian woman doubly so.
(Mrs. Pavlov’s House would knock the sox off ROK creeps because she’s, well, brilliant, brave, smokin’ hot and still loves someone who has opinions that, in their minds, are those of a beta mangina. But then again I could never exist in their mental world because I’m actually a real soldier)
You will note that dude never even considers the idea of being one of the men who dies in these glorious wars. Nope, he’s definitely going to be one of the war heroes who comes home healthy and covered in glory and gets showered in feminine attention.
It’s like people who are nostalgic about bygone eras– somehow, despite being lower-class in the modern age, whenever they imagine themselves transported in time they always picture themselves living as Rockefellers or Tudors, never as their own peon ancestors.
But wait! I thought women were to blame for all those wars and deaths, because they promote male disposability and cruelly send us all off to die so they can have more stuff?
MRA-logic is so confusing!
@Ooglyboggles
*hugs* if desired and best wishes.
Everything in this section sounds very familiar from my own life. I never got as much shit for it because everyone in my family acts like that. That said, I’m not neurotypical myself, so I dunno how much comfort you’ll take from it.
@Tessa
Technically, that illustration is actually from the GrimJack comic (or rather from the Munden’s Bar side story); Bill and Barry Heterodyne appear as pulp-era do-gooders who are transported to an interdimensional bar full of bad guys. Considerably later, and after quite a lot of alteration, broadly similar characters sharing their names appear in the backstory of Girl Genius! (The title character of whom now serves as my avatar, for those who are not familiar.)
@Pavlov’s House
IME, this is almost entirely limited to the U.S. and Canada, on account of neither country has had an active war on home soil in a century or so, meaning civilians experienced virtually none of the horrors of war.
@Leftwingfox
You might enjoy S.A. Swann’s Moreau series. (Starts with Forests of the Night)
@Angela
The testimony of Patience Kershaw. Here’s more.
I have trouble keeping up with all the wars going on in the world today. If he wants to go fight in a war, there’s no lack of battle for him to get right up in the thick of.
Somehow I suspect he won’t take the initiative.
What he wants is a world of dead men who aren’t him and suffering women he can force into his service.
Children? He doesn’t care how many die in his perfect world.
…and he’s thinks he is the finest specimen of manhood (read as ” best of humanity”)
Why is it the lowest scum always think they are so fine?
Might be a chicken and egg thing. By believing themselves to be inherently awesome and sexy and deserving of all the wimminz, they make no effort to improve themselves and entropy kicks in. Being an attractive person (spiritually, mentally and physically as well, even if you’re not an HB8) takes a degree of self-awareness and effort, even if it seems to come naturally to some people. You can’t just call yourself worthy of great things because you exist, while doing absolutely nothing towards anything. Yet that’s these guys in a nutshell. Hence why they turn into scumbags.
On another point, does anyone have any advice on looking after minor burns? :/ I took care of it initially by running it under cold water for 20 minutes, now I’m just waiting for it to heal. It’s on the back of my wrist, bright red, fits in the size of a postage stamp and has a few tiny blisters on it (and is also triangle shaped for some reason – Illuminati confirmed? Or have I been blessed with a power of the Triforce?).
My understanding of minor burns is that you cover up the area to avoid screaming when you inevitably bump it. However, I don’t think of blistering as being a minor burn.
I’m a doctor but not the kind that helps people.
numerobis: the “blistering” I mean is tiny little bobbles in you look closely under bright light. And there’s only about four. I’m not concerned, though I’m not a doctor of any kind. The first-aider at work gave it the OK after the cold water treatment, now I’m just wondering what to do with, for example, showering. Put some cling film round it? I dunno.
It’ll be fine in the long run though. 🙂
I am not a doctor, but I am a first aider.
Make sure you don’t put pressure or friction on it. Even clothing rubbing against it is bad (and will be very painful.) If you need to, covering the burn with cling film is a good idea.
Do not use ice on it. Cold water is good, but nothing colder.
If the pain is a problem, paracetamol and ibuprofen are both fine but steer away from opiate painkillers.
If it goes white or the skin is charred, go to hospital.
If you have diabetes, go to hospital.
The good news is that this confirms that you aren’t a witch.
sunnysombrera:
In a similar spot, fell asleep with my laptop, which runs pretty hot, in my lap last night. Some redness on my inner thigh when I woke up and now one decent sized blister. Resisting the urge to put my pocket knife on the stove for a bit then pop it.
Good thing it’s summer, which means short sleeves. I’ll wrap it up in cling film during a shower.
I used ice on it after the cold water treatment. Ooops. Pain is not a problem at all, I barely feel the injury. I’d probably put the damage level as equivalent to sunburn, nothing deeper than that, though IANAD. (I got it by catching the back of my wrist on a very hot lightbulb).
I will if it goes white. It is not charred. I’m not diabetic. 🙂
Thanks for the help!
ETA: Ouch, Joe. Resist that urge!
YWomen and children worked in mines (horses too, since we’re on the subject). Women and children worked in factories. And farms and all kinds of other places and faced danger as a result.
After world war one, women were so keen to woo men with their submission that they made significant advances in women’s emancipation and adopted an androgynous style of dress including (oh the misandry!) short hair. Incidentally, it was fairly recently discovered that the gender of human babies is NOT purely random and a deficit of one gender in the population will lead to an increased birth rate for that gender, thus explaining the mystery of how the male population of Britain was restored so rapidly after WW1 – returning to the normal ratio.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe prior to the 20th century, the rate of deaths from disease dwarfed the rate of violent deaths. I have a conjecture that the indifferent attitude to work safety of older times was related to the high probability of perishing from disease outside of work.
Tl:dr not even wrong buddy
On the other hand “exchange values” as a euphemism for sex has some potential.
As noted elsewhere the vast disruptions caused by modern warfare led to women taking over what had been ‘men’s’ jobs on assembly lines and elsewhere which led to massive changes in society – exactly at the moment when the number of men vs women was per this toad good for manly men like him
And after World War 1 there was a massive attitude shift in both women and men seeing how the traditional values of God King and Country had gotten millions killed for nothing – again at the very moment when per this fellows argument women would have been in a massive competition with each other for the remaining men.
@Joe:
Don’t do that. Popping blisters is a good way to get infections. Your body will get rid of it by itself when it’s ready, because humans are amazing at healing.
@Sunnysombrera:
A light bulb sounds painful but not that injurious. Hopefully it’ll heal up nice and quickly. Fingers crossed it leaves a scar which you can show off to the cute boys / girls (depending upon your tastes) and invent barely-plausible stories about.
“Oh, this? I got this in a duel whilst backpacking across the Andes.”
I tried reading this earlier but the ignorance hurt so badly I had to stop and make a fold up bag. I’ve tried again; the ignorance hurts even more.
Corey Savage you fail at history, biology, anthropology and being a human being, please leave the internet and spend some time in a library educating yourself.
I used to have an aloe vera gel that dulled the pain of sun burn and smelled pretty good also.
“Because we have ‘too few wars [and] too many men,’ Savage declares, men have to work harder to impress women than they would if women dramatically outnumbered men. This ‘[e]xcess of men,’ he complains. ‘means that the collective value of average men has dropped to a historical low’”
This would only work if it were true that the civilian populations who die (at a much higher rate or proportion than soldiers, who are armed, trained and equipped) in a war contained no women or children, instead of consisting mostly of women and children (again, at a much higher, disproportionate rate).
Which means that though the “excess of men” of which the writer complains really does exist (men outnumber women worldwide by about six million or so — somewhat less than one-sixth the population of the United States, but still a big number) the reason for it is much more likely to be that there are too many armed conflicts in progress than too few. (The other reason is the steep population growth, along with the sudden rise to prominence, of China and India, two nations which sharply favor the births of male children; it’s not because Uncle Sam has been too indiscriminate with The Money and The Love.)
So, though the problem the writer is addressing really is a problem (though only to people who want to see it that way) his ideas as to what to do about the problem not only will not solve it but are have the potential to make it worse. IOW, he’s one of the countless ranks of people who are humping to make their lives harder, out of ignorance or malice, or for some other impenetrable reason.
“It’s no coincidence that Western societies have started to feminize as they endured decades of relative peace since the end of WWII.”
“Dude, you do realize that the US has been in five wars (and involved in countless other conflicts) since the end of WWII, right? Is the problem that not enough men died in these wars?”
The problem may (on the contrary) be that too many women died in those wars (along with their kids) — not that not enough men did. Still, it’s a good question to ask, because this is a guy who sounds like he doesn’t get out much.
@PavlovsHouse: I’m not surprised about the cadence chants; a lot of the old ones were frankly gross. The idea of “Jody” cadences that slam either gender kind of makes me grin, though.
No, no, no, no, no. Does this guy really think that war has ever been enough to kill off a statistical proportion of the population? Except for a very select few years and genocides, war is never enough to even make a dent in the numbers killed by humanity’s two old favourites, disease and childbirth.
Throughout the vast majority of human history, until very very recently, the mean life expectancy for men was always longer than that for women, because of how dangerous childbirth used to be.
Jody is still a thing in the military, though not in cadences in my experience. The gender neutralness and connection to real life makes it still a term that is used and understood in conversation.
Jesus Christ, who fucking put out a fucking laptop like that?? That’s horrible!
@ EJ
🙂 Although in my circles that would be very much disappointing news.
@Handsome Jack
It’s several years old and was both left for dead about 8 months ago (a backpack didn’t protect it well from a downpour), and clearly still has some rice inside it.
That’s…actually really durable. What brand is it?
I wouldn’t use it on the lap though.