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America’s home-grown fascists are still giddy that some of their own managed to stab a bunch of leftists during the miniature riot that broke out at the Traditionalist Worker Party rally in Sacramento on Sunday.
The Daily Stormer, everybody’s favorite neo-Nazi internet tabloid, has declared “‘The Battle of Sacramento’ … the first major battle of the dawning race war in America” and “a decisive victory for the forces of good.”
Despite being vastly outnumbered by antifa (antifascist) counterprotesters, the Daily Stormer’s Andrew Anglin writes, “the nationalists prevailed.”
And by that he means that even though they retreated in a big hurry when faced with a much larger group of counterprotesters, many of them armed with bats and rocks, they managed to stab a bunch of people in the process.
Claiming that the racist skinheads who joined the rally alongside the TWP “took the weapons that the communists and colored brought to attack them with and used them against them,” Anglin revels in what he sees as an impressive stabbing ratio:
Five of the terrorists ended up stabbed and are now in the hospital.
Only one of our guys was stabbed.
This is a monumental victory, both symbolically and literally.
Anglin thinks that the bloody skirmish, stabbings and all, brought his side “good publicity,” adding that
the enemy is disheartened, looking weak, and I’m sure more than a few young White kids are hearing this news and beginning the process that will lead them to eventually fighting on the streets alongside us.
Unfortunately, he’s probably right, at least about that last bit.
If the antifas had deliberately set out to boost the morale of their neo-Nazi foes — and recruit new members for them — they could hardly have done a better job of it than they inadvertently did in Sacramento on Sunday.
Antifas, how about leaving the bats at home next time? Don’t give the Nazis the fight they want.
@Alan Robertshaw : that “just” mean that police in the UK have to add “protect politician” to its very long list of thing to do.
Once again, what is the alternative ? Have the politican hire thugs to protect thems ? Have a popular army, similar to the NRA nuts, defend politicians ? Won’t that make thing a lot worse even ?
And if the whole police is so preempted by far right that it refuse to correctly protect politican people and let them die, it’s time for a *revolution*. Or quitting the country if you don’t believe it’s a revolution you can win.
(the parralel with the nazis should also be seen. Regardless of how noble your original cause is, if you start your own brigade to force people to agree with you, you’re well in your way to become the villain. Look at the French Revolution and Robespierre for good example of people who believed they did good thing and ended up doing absolutely horrible, insane things.)
I don’t think anyone’s suggested using or initiating force to get people to agree with them. People have said they have the right to defend themselves. Not seeing how those things are even vaguely alike.
And if you’re implying Nazi’s originally had any nobility to their cause, you really need to read how they got in power.
@ ohlmann
It is a very complex situation. I understand your distaste at the idea of people forming their own ‘brigades’. The police though are so overstretched. It would be both impossible, and political suicide, to assign police protection to politicians at all times.
Nobody wants to see roving bands of troublemakers looking to start fights, even with fascists. There may however be a space for vulnerable groups to organise for their own protection. In London for instance the Jewish community work in partnership with the Metropolitan Police to protect themselves against anti-Semitic attacks.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/11/24936FBE00000578-0-image-a-58_1420939394735.jpg
I can’t speak for any PoC, but I have been assaulted on the street three times by right-wingers for being gay. And I still say fuck violence.
That we are having an argument about whether it is best to protest fascist demonstrations with or without weapons really strikes home how terrible the situation has gotten.
http://iambrony.steeph.tp-radio.de/mlp/gif/169280__UNOPT__.gif
@Cyberwulf:
Pointing them out for the world to see, so that the world can see how deeply these sorts of views run and how harmful they can be, and saying that stooping to their level and trying to beat them around physically isn’t likely to help is hardly “curling into a ball” or “ignoring them and hoping they’ll go away”. And nobody here is blaming any of this on mental illness, either. It’s hardly a groundbreaking view for people to be against violence even in the face of violence, and as far as I’m aware from the near-two years I’ve been reading this blog, this place in particular has a pretty staunch and consistent anti-violence stance.
EDIT: Like, are you actually going to say that it’s the fault of the people being attacked that they’re being attacked, because they’re not carrying around weapons so that they can attack others first? Because that’s kind of what I’m getting here.
Well,
After reading over the comments I may be rethinking my earlier statement.
I don’t know, I’ve never been targeted by fascists or Neo Nazi’s but Dslucia’s comment really hit home for me.
History is full of people that believed THEIR violence was the just violence.
The punk movement is alive and well, man. Goth is too. You can find them all over, even readily on the internet. There’s huge swaths of them on Blogspot and Tumblr if you so wish to look. It’s one of the better things about social media, no subculture is really dead.
Of course, that’s also the shitter thing about social media, no subculture that should be dead (coughneonaziscough) is dead.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
@ handsome jack
I don’t know if you’re familiar with ‘The Exploited’. If not I hope you enjoy this 🙂
https://youtu.be/FZLBmqFiGjY
Hey, all. I just wanna bring something to the attention of the thread. I’m not the only one noticing how more time, effort, and words is being expended debating the merits of antifa violence than the ideas and actions of the actual fucking neonazis, am I? Both here and elsewhere
‘Yeah, yeah, fascists suck, blah, blah. But, more importantly, both sides and they started it and MLK…’
THIS SHIT RIGHT HERE is why violence doesn’t work as an ideological tactic! There are rules, and those rules, among other things, keep the focus on the things we should be focusing on. Guess what, counter protesters. THIS ISN’T ABOUT YOU! This ain’t your blaze of glory moment. You go out itching for a fight, you get one. Great! Except then the story goes from ‘Neonazis in Sacramento, this is terrible’ to ‘Leftist goon squad beats up eccentric demonstrators, muh freedom’
You wanna defend yourselves? Fine, do what ya gotta do. Just so long as you know that a half dozen stabbing victims doesn’t help anyone and you’re not ‘the good guys’ for being a part of that
What Ohlmann said. What Ddog said.
Once you start saying that your opponents should be peaceful but you yourself reserve the right to use violence to advance your agenda; or that your opponents may only use violence in ways that you’ve vetted and deemed acceptable; then you need to reexamine your axioms because something’s off.
@polygonlucy
“I don’t expect anyone to revel in violence. Violence is horrible. Even violence perpetrated on bonehead nazi scum. But I do think it’s reasonable to expect that white allies of people of colour show solidarity to people of colour even if they choose to use violence when dealing with nazis.
Ok, at first I thought you were referring to self-defense, and I was totally with you. “Ignoring” violence never works. POC deserve our support. I would argue that bringing bats, as visible weapons, are more likely to serve as invitations to violence from people looking for fights, but that’s another disscussion. Supporting a POC’s right to self defense is paramount.
However, then I read this;
“I’m just going to say that not all people of colour believe in nonviolence and it’s not a white boys place to have that argument with them.”
HOLY FUCKING SHIT ARE YOU ACTUALLY ADVOCATING FOR INSTIGATING RACIAL VIOLENCE????!
OK, in the rather unlikely event that you are not some Neo-Nazi shill trying to shake us “white boys” up, you are a moron. Fuck off.
@WWTH
Don’t be so sure that you’re not a target. You may not be the proclaimed target, but often violent Neonazis/racists will happily beat or kill “their” women when said women get “uppity”.
@Scildfreja
“That we are having an argument about whether it is best to protest fascist demonstrations with or without weapons really strikes home how terrible the situation has gotten.”
Truer words. Never spoken.
@BVH
“Anyone who thought before this post Hitler was ever elected , you need to sue your school system. Don’t pretend you understand the mechanisms of Nazi fascism…
Yeah a lot of democracies don’t directly elect their leader. Hitler would never have been appointed if the Nazis were not elected in. Hitler would not have been able to consolidate power in the way his did if it wasn’t for the votes of the other elected politicians.
I’m not sure what your hang-up here is. Are people really saying that there never would have been a Nazi Germany if it wasn’t for Hitler being “voted in”?
These things come in steps. People talked about a “police-state” with Bush because it was a step in that direction. Now look at where we are.
These groups are rising because the middle class and the privileged are bleeding and in pain and are looking for somewhere to turn. This doesn’t excuse the shitlords that are taking advantage of them, but honestly things never go well when the middle class is pissed.
@SFHC
I’m so sorry that happened to you.
This is actually relevant to the Sacramento protest and violence. It’s the letter sent out to BUSD parents from the Superintendent.
That’s exactly why MLK consistently refused to condemn violent civil rights activists, even though he was a strong believer in nonviolence. It turns the conversation to how the victims of oppression should behave, instead of how the oppressors should.
@Scildfreja
It’s a bit depressing that we’re bickering among ourselves like that too.
I understand both positions. I’ll stick to non-violence myself for practical reasons : I’m simply not built for this shit anymore. Nor do I want to be again. But I won’t blame those who go out there expecting a fight. I won’t approve of looking for said fight, but the sad reality is that you have to expect it. Ohlmann, you don’t seem to realize that the police isn’t exactly on our side here. The fascist marches a few months ago in Belgium ? Police escorted them there. And the fascists were armed ! Know the term “ratonnade” ? That’s what they wanted to do. That’s what the police themselves used to do, and visibly want to do again. Only reason no one got hurt is because the targeted showed their fangs and scared the shit out of the bastards.
We have goddamn lynch mobs in the street now, out for blood. Sadly we’ve lost the luxury of being able to just walk up to them and counter-protest.
I just hope this whole thing dies down before more people get hurt.
Mrex,
I don’t know if it’s your intent but you’re coming off as weirdly hostile.
I’m aware that fascist ideology and misogyny go together and they’re perfectly capable of violence against women. That doesn’t mean they roam around looking for mainstream looking white women to beat up.
“However, then I read this;
“I’m just going to say that not all people of colour believe in nonviolence and it’s not a white boys place to have that argument with them.”
HOLY FUCKING SHIT ARE YOU ACTUALLY ADVOCATING FOR INSTIGATING RACIAL VIOLENCE????!”
Super unfortunate that what I said was interpreted as that, so let me be crystal clear:
I support marginalized people using whatever tactic they need to use to protect themselves in their struggles.
I have no idea how you got what your saying from that.
I am calling out the liberals on this website for criticizing people of colour and their allies for using violence as a tactic when dealing with nazis. I am accusing you of being blinded by your privilege and of being racist.
THAT IS ALL. I am not instigating racial violence, I am defending the use of violence when dealing with nazis. Note that unless all white people are nazis, you cannot possibly arrive at the conclusion you are arriving at.
I don’t think violence is good. It can be justified, but it can’t be morally good. I also don’t think it’s okay to attack first. I understand why people would, but I don’t like it. Mind you, no one wants to kill me as far as I know, but I sincerely hope I wouldn’t resort to force even if I would be in danger because of it.
Also, while I don’t think the police should have a monopoly on force because I’m (perhaps foolishly) a believer that *most* people won’t abuse it, police should ideally be the ones who are most allowed to use it, and for people to trust that police aren’t corrupt. Does anyone know what should be done about police corruption? That’s one of the scariest things possible to me.
@WWTH
Agreed.
No but you’re arguing for initiating violence against as a valid tactic for shutting down pro-fascist rallies.
I support the right for counter-protesters to block, shout-down, and defend themselves if necessary, but not to just outright attack people. As threatening as it is Neo-nazis have a right to assembly as much as anyone else in the US.