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America’s home-grown fascists are still giddy that some of their own managed to stab a bunch of leftists during the miniature riot that broke out at the Traditionalist Worker Party rally in Sacramento on Sunday.
The Daily Stormer, everybody’s favorite neo-Nazi internet tabloid, has declared “‘The Battle of Sacramento’ … the first major battle of the dawning race war in America” and “a decisive victory for the forces of good.”
Despite being vastly outnumbered by antifa (antifascist) counterprotesters, the Daily Stormer’s Andrew Anglin writes, “the nationalists prevailed.”
And by that he means that even though they retreated in a big hurry when faced with a much larger group of counterprotesters, many of them armed with bats and rocks, they managed to stab a bunch of people in the process.
Claiming that the racist skinheads who joined the rally alongside the TWP “took the weapons that the communists and colored brought to attack them with and used them against them,” Anglin revels in what he sees as an impressive stabbing ratio:
Five of the terrorists ended up stabbed and are now in the hospital.
Only one of our guys was stabbed.
This is a monumental victory, both symbolically and literally.
Anglin thinks that the bloody skirmish, stabbings and all, brought his side “good publicity,” adding that
the enemy is disheartened, looking weak, and I’m sure more than a few young White kids are hearing this news and beginning the process that will lead them to eventually fighting on the streets alongside us.
Unfortunately, he’s probably right, at least about that last bit.
If the antifas had deliberately set out to boost the morale of their neo-Nazi foes — and recruit new members for them — they could hardly have done a better job of it than they inadvertently did in Sacramento on Sunday.
Antifas, how about leaving the bats at home next time? Don’t give the Nazis the fight they want.
So we have fascists committed to violence and the response from people is to escalate it? Really?
When you see violence and you respond in turn you recognise it as a method of conflict resolution. It’s not. “They started it” is a rubbish excuse for a fight. The left obviously has the right of it but seeing photos of people in black with scarves covering their faces being “right” is worrying
Depends – are the cops going to leave THEIR bats, pepper spray and guns at home as well? Because they’ve pretty clearly established which side they’re on, and it ain’t with the antifas.
Fuck violence, whichever side it’s from.
Antifa give decent people fighting oppression a bad name. They don’t defend themselves, they incite and commit violent acts as a matter of policy.
This is not a policy that has a place in a free and just society.
@polygonlucy
While I certainly do have various kinds of privilege, it’s probably worth remembering that the most influential advocate for and practitioner of nonviolence in the battle against racism and racists here in the US was, well, he wasn’t a white dude.
He held to this strategy knowing how violent his opponents were, risking his life every day and ultimately getting murdered by a racist, as we all know. This was also at a time when the police response to black children protesting was to use fire hoses on them. And at a time when the FBI’s response was to spy on him and try to blackmail him.
I know everyone here knows this. I think it’s worth remembering because nonviolence isn’t just some copout white liberal thing; it’s a strategy with deep roots in the civil rights movement that has actually brought about enormous changes for the better in American society.
Obviously it hasn’t eliminated racism in the US or anything close to that, but I don’t think hitting nazis with sticks is going to do that either.
Watching the videos of the mess in Sacramento I couldn’t help but notice that a lot, probably most, of the antifas going after the nazis with bats were “white kids,” mostly guys.
I can certainly understand people wanting to hit nazis with sticks. But I don’t think this is an effective way to defeat them politically. The best way to fight nazis isn’t literally fighting with them.
Not only that but the racists will escalate such fights by introducing more dangerous weapons. This time it was knives. At that BLM protest last november, it was guns.
It’s amazing they haven’t killed anyone yet.
Should antifas try to keep up with them by bringing even deadlier weapons to these confrontations? That would be a terrible idea both ethically and practically — a sort of lefty variation on the “good guy with a gun” nonsense the NRA peddles.
David,
I find this argument is identical each and every time I have it.
This time I am just going to suggest a book or two.
Ward Churchill – Pacifism as a pathology < – not a white boy.
I'm just going to say that not all people of colour believe in nonviolence and it's not a white boys place to have that argument with them.
@ David
You’re no doubt familiar with this essay by MLK where he discusses all the issues around this.
http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/nonviolence-the-only-road-to-freedom/
Didn’t King also say something about rioting being the result of oppressed people being voiceless? Sorry, I’m about to start work and I don’t have time to look it up. My point is that while he disagreed with violent tactics, he understood where it came from.
I do personally agree that violence isn’t the way, but as a privileged person who is not the target of violence from fascist types, I’m not sure how judgemental I get to be. I don’t think there’s anything wrong from at least trying to understand where someone is coming from if they feel like they have no other option.
I’ll let someone else pick that one up and it’s many incorrect implied assumptions….
I’ll echo the other comments that basically, when it comes to hardcore boneheads, you are protesting a group that is looking for a fight, and will start one with no provocation.
Knowing that, you have limited options:
1. Don’t start a fight but come prepared to finish it.
2. Go in accepting to be attacked and take the beating or worse. Yeah, because you have loads of time to be laid up in hospital eating through a straw…
3. Don’t protest Nazis.
Wait isn’t that what we fought this war to never put up with again?
Of course the real problem is law enforcement(FBI, local police, even intelligence services) have been dropping the ball for years, failing to investigate the organizing of these violent groups and their cryptofascist front groups. It was utterly pathetic that Anonymous had to expose Jamie Kelso and his various political connections, allies (including Ron Paul and Scientology)and ambitions to “whitewash” racist propaganda to make organizing racists more effective. Tracking racist organizing and threats is the FBI’s eefing job. And oc course, they got upset that Anon did their job for them….
Street battles between ARA/antifa vs Boneheads have been going on under the mainstream radar for a very long time…basically wherever law enforcement has shown itself ineffective at stopping fascists and hategroups from organizing. IMHO it’s going to get worse because with the rise of Trump we are seeing proto-facism becoming mainstreamed.
Many people were unhappy with the Bush administration’s general incompetence and things like ‘fascist police state’ were thrown around a lot. But if you study the rise of fascism and specifically the Third Reich, there was something missing for the Bush administration to achieve all the scariness of a fascist state, a private army willing to do violence in his name.
Trump, OTOH, has that, and not just Nazi cosplay losers. And for those thinking, “Well, it’ll be pretty hairy for a while, but it’s all good…Trump will never get elected”….Hitler was never elected either:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_presidential_election,_1932
So, if law enforcement is either too ineffective or incompetent to stop bonfide Hitler wannabes, how do we stop fascist and proto fascist organizing without direct confrontation? Because even that’s barely slowing it down. Even if Trump blows out–and if I was a betting woman, that’s where I’d put my money– we’re still left with the base, the private army of “patriots”, 3%ers, militia goons, racists and Nazis who can be tapped by anybody while apparently the people who are supposed to investigate and stop this shite stand around goggled eyed, hurr durr.
Anyone who thought before this post Hitler was ever elected , you need to sue your school system. Don’t pretend you understand the mechanisms of Nazi fascism until you understand everything in this article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power
It’s not exactly like the protofascism rising now, but the parallels should awaken you to a fact: it’s not about elections: it’s about building a power base that makes elections irrelevant.
Oh, and Nazis suck.
NO PASARAN
@ WWTH
Here you go…
http://i.imgur.com/3rEFiky.jpg
It depends on which media you read/watch/listen, i guess. When racism is suspected, it is said really fast in media, in general. It is either pointed on racism or religion or sexual orientation, even sometimes too quickly in my opinion. You can say this is the way done, because racists often complain that it is not specified when the victim is a white christian person (if the crime occured in France). On the other side, this point is generally avoided (when possible) about the criminal(s), so people tend to make their mind according to the name/photo of the criminal, which can be a very biased way of making your own opinion.
And for the stats and figures, you can hardly expect every person to believe them. First, the major part of survey institutes are private institutions, so they can provide about any stats/figures that float your boat for a price. Second, when it is state survey institute (INSEE, mainly), you can be sure that part of the readers of their reports are saying that the stats/figures are moots because the institute is in the pay of the government. It is as easy to find way to dismiss numbers as to find water in the ocean.
Would tend to agree that nonviolence only gets you so far. Those Trump rallies are a fine example : the people getting assaulted there aren’t bringing/waving weapons around. Really, those fuckers don’t care if you’re in for a fight or not. Just minding your own business in a public space, far from any rallies or protests, is already enough for them if they’ve branded you as a target.
So if you’re gonna counter-protest them, well frankly you might as well bring something to defend yourself with. Now I agree with others who say “be ready, but don’t strike first” : frankly there’s no need to start that fight, they’ll do it for you anyway.
In other news, the kind folks at the Daily Stormer have just heard of Dan Savage for the first time : I won’t link to it here, but the article is titled “The Death Cult” and offers an… interesting view into the strange and wonderful alt-reality where alt-righters seem to dwell. As always with that rag, all the trigger warnings apply.
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/098/095/5d4.gif
Knew I shoulda stayed right the fuck outta this thread
They’ve actually know about Dan since 2013… there’s an article where they claim Dan claims abortion should be mandatory. In the Telegraph clip they use as “proof”, it’s obvious Dan was being deliberately sarcastic in a larger conversation about population control, but context is clearly an SJW thing. /s
Violence is never, ever a solution to anything. Violence is the goal some seek, but it never solve anything. Here, did the antifas help in any way ? Would they have helped in any way if they knifed 7 neonazis without having any wound on their side ? No.
I am in a terribly bad mood, because someone dropped the classic “it’s western culture vs muslim culture”. NO IT’S NOT POOPHEAD. THE LAST THING WE NEED IS SATISFYING YOUR WAR-BONER WITH THE BLOOD OF MORE INNOCENTS.
Fuck organic life. Sometime, discussing to humans feel like searching excrement for diamonds. Just putting the bunch under an hydraulic press to make synthethic diamond would make more sense anyway.
@BVH
Thought I remembered something like that from before. Guess it was this specific author going on a rant about him without knowing it’d been done before. I mean this time it’s not about anything specific, mainly “I’ve heard about this guy, checked out his stuff, then [homophobic rant ensues]”. And treated it all as something new.
This teaches us one thing : DS authors can’t even get their shit straight between each other.
@Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
Well, this is on a website run by the genius who, a year after founding it, muses:
“The term ‘neo-Nazi’ is clearly a slur, and I’m not certain I want to repeat everything like it was in Hitler’s Germany.”
Wow, how big of him. Maybe, not start a Neo-Nazis website then?
If his mission statement is inconsistent, it doesn’t surprise me the writers/contributors are inconsistent.
FWIW, Anglin’s entire operation looks like a fake astroturf front to fund his lifestyle.
Yes let’s all sit back and let these pieces of shit murder elected representatives and then blame mental illness. If we just ignore them they’ll go away because that always works with bullies, doesn’t it? Loved your “but MLK!” aside. Nice.
@cyberwulf : it’s the *police* role to stop them from killing elected guys. Not the role of random guys in the street.
No possible concession about the rule “never do justice yourself”.
I don’t think anyone should go to a public protest looking for a fight, but I think anyone who gets assaulted has the right to defend themselves.
Ohlmann they are ALREADY EMBOLDENED to assault and kill. They’re whipped into a frenzy because the rest of us believe their leaders and demagogues have a right to say whatever hateful shit they like. They don’t think we have a right to be alive because we’re commie f****** out to destroy the white race. They’re hitting us while we curl into a ball because violence is wrong and Teacher will blame us. Like David’s doing. Complete with lecture.
“@cyberwulf : it’s the *police* role to stop them from killing elected guys. Not the role of random guys in the street.”
And when the “*police*” are the one’s doing a lot of the killing of people of colour, or locking them up disproportionately, and are otherwise a serious part of the problem in this country, shall people of colour wait patiently for you, holding hands, while you pressure your municipality for police reform?
Does it not follow for you that police forces that shoot unarmed black men are racist and that relying on them to put an end to racial violence and the murder of elected officials who oppose it is lunacy?
Does your attitude not strike you as racist?
What remedy do you offer to people of colour while you work out reforming police? Shall they hide inside their homes?
If law enforcement and the ppl claiming to investigate hate groups did their fucking jobs, Antifa/ARA wouldn’t need to be doing it for them.
Unless you’re suggesting stand around and do nothing….
@ ohlmann
I understand where you’re coming from but, over here at least, your average politician doesn’t have police protection. Two police officers were involved in the apprehension of Jo Cox’s killer; but it seems it was just lucky they were close by. The guy who did intervene sounds like he’s a bit of a hero generally; he also risked his life in a colliery accident rescue some years ago. We need more people like him.
Please note: I’m not suggesting people should tool up and go looking for trouble. I accept this is a complex issue with no definitive or universally agreed solutions.
Anyway, here’s some more about that chap:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/17/retired-miner-who-tried-to-tackle-jo-cox-was-also-hero-of-collie/
@polygonlucy : so your solution is to try to conquer the country with the police against you ?
And, no, it’s not racist to remind that the police should have the monopoly of force. Either use the system to change it, or do a revolution. But don’t believe that trying physical violence will help anything outside of a bona fide revolution. In your exemple even violence do exactly shit-all. At best you get labelled as dangerous and thrown in prison/shot dead/thrown out of the country.
I can hear the anthem “out of desperation, we only have [XXX] to try”, where XXX is a random dumb thing that vary by country, like fighting neonazis, exiting Europe, voting Trump, doing terrorism. Turn out doing litteraly anything other than the statu quo don’t mean you’re helpful.