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Daily Stormer declares bloody Sacramento rally the first big victory in “the dawning race war”

Let’s not do this again

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America’s home-grown fascists are still giddy that some of their own managed to stab a bunch of leftists during the miniature riot that broke out at the Traditionalist Worker Party rally in Sacramento on Sunday.

The Daily Stormer, everybody’s favorite neo-Nazi internet tabloid, has declared “‘The Battle of Sacramento’ … the first major battle of the dawning race war in America” and “a decisive victory for the forces of good.”

Despite being vastly outnumbered by antifa (antifascist) counterprotesters, the Daily Stormer’s Andrew Anglin writes, “the nationalists prevailed.”

And by that he means that even though they retreated in a big hurry when faced with a much larger group of counterprotesters, many of them armed with bats and rocks, they managed to stab a bunch of people in the process.

Claiming that the racist skinheads who joined the rally alongside the TWP “took the weapons that the communists and colored brought to attack them with and used them against them,” Anglin revels in what he sees as an impressive stabbing ratio:

Five of the terrorists ended up stabbed and are now in the hospital.

Only one of our guys was stabbed.

This is a monumental victory, both symbolically and literally. 

Anglin thinks that the bloody skirmish, stabbings and all, brought his side “good publicity,” adding that

the enemy is disheartened, looking weak, and I’m sure more than a few young White kids are hearing this news and beginning the process that will lead them to eventually fighting on the streets alongside us.

Unfortunately, he’s probably right, at least about that last bit.

If the antifas had deliberately set out to boost the morale of their neo-Nazi foes — and recruit new members for them — they could hardly have done a better job of it than they inadvertently did in Sacramento on Sunday.

Antifas, how about leaving the bats at home next time? Don’t give the Nazis the fight they want.

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Chapwilliams
Chapwilliams
4 years ago

So we have fascists committed to violence and the response from people is to escalate it? Really?

When you see violence and you respond in turn you recognise it as a method of conflict resolution. It’s not. “They started it” is a rubbish excuse for a fight. The left obviously has the right of it but seeing photos of people in black with scarves covering their faces being “right” is worrying

Matt
Matt
4 years ago

Antifas, how about leaving the bats at home next time?

Depends – are the cops going to leave THEIR bats, pepper spray and guns at home as well? Because they’ve pretty clearly established which side they’re on, and it ain’t with the antifas.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

Fuck violence, whichever side it’s from.

Kate
Kate
4 years ago

Antifa give decent people fighting oppression a bad name. They don’t defend themselves, they incite and commit violent acts as a matter of policy.

This is not a policy that has a place in a free and just society.

polygonlucy
polygonlucy
4 years ago

David,

I find this argument is identical each and every time I have it.

This time I am just going to suggest a book or two.

Ward Churchill – Pacifism as a pathology < – not a white boy.

I'm just going to say that not all people of colour believe in nonviolence and it's not a white boys place to have that argument with them.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ David

You’re no doubt familiar with this essay by MLK where he discusses all the issues around this.

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/nonviolence-the-only-road-to-freedom/

weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo
weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo
4 years ago

Didn’t King also say something about rioting being the result of oppressed people being voiceless? Sorry, I’m about to start work and I don’t have time to look it up. My point is that while he disagreed with violent tactics, he understood where it came from.

I do personally agree that violence isn’t the way, but as a privileged person who is not the target of violence from fascist types, I’m not sure how judgemental I get to be. I don’t think there’s anything wrong from at least trying to understand where someone is coming from if they feel like they have no other option.

BVH
BVH
4 years ago

So we have fascists committed to violence and the response from people is to escalate it? Really?

I’ll let someone else pick that one up and it’s many incorrect implied assumptions….

Antifas, how about leaving the bats at home next time? Don’t give the Nazis the fight they want.

I’ll echo the other comments that basically, when it comes to hardcore boneheads, you are protesting a group that is looking for a fight, and will start one with no provocation.

Knowing that, you have limited options:

1. Don’t start a fight but come prepared to finish it.

2. Go in accepting to be attacked and take the beating or worse. Yeah, because you have loads of time to be laid up in hospital eating through a straw…

3. Don’t protest Nazis.

Wait isn’t that what we fought this war to never put up with again?

Of course the real problem is law enforcement(FBI, local police, even intelligence services) have been dropping the ball for years, failing to investigate the organizing of these violent groups and their cryptofascist front groups. It was utterly pathetic that Anonymous had to expose Jamie Kelso and his various political connections, allies (including Ron Paul and Scientology)and ambitions to “whitewash” racist propaganda to make organizing racists more effective. Tracking racist organizing and threats is the FBI’s eefing job. And oc course, they got upset that Anon did their job for them….

Street battles between ARA/antifa vs Boneheads have been going on under the mainstream radar for a very long time…basically wherever law enforcement has shown itself ineffective at stopping fascists and hategroups from organizing. IMHO it’s going to get worse because with the rise of Trump we are seeing proto-facism becoming mainstreamed.

Many people were unhappy with the Bush administration’s general incompetence and things like ‘fascist police state’ were thrown around a lot. But if you study the rise of fascism and specifically the Third Reich, there was something missing for the Bush administration to achieve all the scariness of a fascist state, a private army willing to do violence in his name.

Trump, OTOH, has that, and not just Nazi cosplay losers. And for those thinking, “Well, it’ll be pretty hairy for a while, but it’s all good…Trump will never get elected”….Hitler was never elected either:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_presidential_election,_1932

So, if law enforcement is either too ineffective or incompetent to stop bonfide Hitler wannabes, how do we stop fascist and proto fascist organizing without direct confrontation? Because even that’s barely slowing it down. Even if Trump blows out–and if I was a betting woman, that’s where I’d put my money– we’re still left with the base, the private army of “patriots”, 3%ers, militia goons, racists and Nazis who can be tapped by anybody while apparently the people who are supposed to investigate and stop this shite stand around goggled eyed, hurr durr.

Anyone who thought before this post Hitler was ever elected , you need to sue your school system. Don’t pretend you understand the mechanisms of Nazi fascism until you understand everything in this article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power

It’s not exactly like the protofascism rising now, but the parallels should awaken you to a fact: it’s not about elections: it’s about building a power base that makes elections irrelevant.

Oh, and Nazis suck.

NO PASARAN

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ WWTH

Here you go…

http://i.imgur.com/3rEFiky.jpg

occasional reader
occasional reader
4 years ago

Especially since we’re also color-blind when it comes to the victims of hate crimes

It depends on which media you read/watch/listen, i guess. When racism is suspected, it is said really fast in media, in general. It is either pointed on racism or religion or sexual orientation, even sometimes too quickly in my opinion. You can say this is the way done, because racists often complain that it is not specified when the victim is a white christian person (if the crime occured in France). On the other side, this point is generally avoided (when possible) about the criminal(s), so people tend to make their mind according to the name/photo of the criminal, which can be a very biased way of making your own opinion.
And for the stats and figures, you can hardly expect every person to believe them. First, the major part of survey institutes are private institutions, so they can provide about any stats/figures that float your boat for a price. Second, when it is state survey institute (INSEE, mainly), you can be sure that part of the readers of their reports are saying that the stats/figures are moots because the institute is in the pay of the government. It is as easy to find way to dismiss numbers as to find water in the ocean.

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
4 years ago

Would tend to agree that nonviolence only gets you so far. Those Trump rallies are a fine example : the people getting assaulted there aren’t bringing/waving weapons around. Really, those fuckers don’t care if you’re in for a fight or not. Just minding your own business in a public space, far from any rallies or protests, is already enough for them if they’ve branded you as a target.

So if you’re gonna counter-protest them, well frankly you might as well bring something to defend yourself with. Now I agree with others who say “be ready, but don’t strike first” : frankly there’s no need to start that fight, they’ll do it for you anyway.

In other news, the kind folks at the Daily Stormer have just heard of Dan Savage for the first time : I won’t link to it here, but the article is titled “The Death Cult” and offers an… interesting view into the strange and wonderful alt-reality where alt-righters seem to dwell. As always with that rag, all the trigger warnings apply.

Axecalibur
Axecalibur
4 years ago

I’m just going to say that not all people of colour believe in nonviolence and it’s not a white boys place to have that argument with them

“Fuck you Nazi” says the Antifa PoC as they beat the Nazi senseless

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/098/095/5d4.gif
Knew I shoulda stayed right the fuck outta this thread

BVH
BVH
4 years ago

In other news, the kind folks at the Daily Stormer have just heard of Dan Savage for the first time : I won’t link to it here, but the article is titled “The Death Cult” and offers an… interesting view into the strange and wonderful alt-reality where alt-righters seem to dwell. As always with that rag, all the trigger warnings apply.

They’ve actually know about Dan since 2013… there’s an article where they claim Dan claims abortion should be mandatory. In the Telegraph clip they use as “proof”, it’s obvious Dan was being deliberately sarcastic in a larger conversation about population control, but context is clearly an SJW thing. /s

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
4 years ago

Violence is never, ever a solution to anything. Violence is the goal some seek, but it never solve anything. Here, did the antifas help in any way ? Would they have helped in any way if they knifed 7 neonazis without having any wound on their side ? No.

I am in a terribly bad mood, because someone dropped the classic “it’s western culture vs muslim culture”. NO IT’S NOT POOPHEAD. THE LAST THING WE NEED IS SATISFYING YOUR WAR-BONER WITH THE BLOOD OF MORE INNOCENTS.

Fuck organic life. Sometime, discussing to humans feel like searching excrement for diamonds. Just putting the bunch under an hydraulic press to make synthethic diamond would make more sense anyway.

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
4 years ago

@BVH

Thought I remembered something like that from before. Guess it was this specific author going on a rant about him without knowing it’d been done before. I mean this time it’s not about anything specific, mainly “I’ve heard about this guy, checked out his stuff, then [homophobic rant ensues]”. And treated it all as something new.

This teaches us one thing : DS authors can’t even get their shit straight between each other.

BVH
BVH
4 years ago

@Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko

This teaches us one thing : DS authors can’t even get their shit straight between each other.

Well, this is on a website run by the genius who, a year after founding it, muses:

“The term ‘neo-Nazi’ is clearly a slur, and I’m not certain I want to repeat everything like it was in Hitler’s Germany.”

Wow, how big of him. Maybe, not start a Neo-Nazis website then?

If his mission statement is inconsistent, it doesn’t surprise me the writers/contributors are inconsistent.

FWIW, Anglin’s entire operation looks like a fake astroturf front to fund his lifestyle.

Cyberwulf
Cyberwulf
4 years ago

Yes let’s all sit back and let these pieces of shit murder elected representatives and then blame mental illness. If we just ignore them they’ll go away because that always works with bullies, doesn’t it? Loved your “but MLK!” aside. Nice.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
4 years ago

@cyberwulf : it’s the *police* role to stop them from killing elected guys. Not the role of random guys in the street.

No possible concession about the rule “never do justice yourself”.

Josh
Josh
4 years ago

I don’t think anyone should go to a public protest looking for a fight, but I think anyone who gets assaulted has the right to defend themselves.

Cyberwulf
Cyberwulf
4 years ago

Ohlmann they are ALREADY EMBOLDENED to assault and kill. They’re whipped into a frenzy because the rest of us believe their leaders and demagogues have a right to say whatever hateful shit they like. They don’t think we have a right to be alive because we’re commie f****** out to destroy the white race. They’re hitting us while we curl into a ball because violence is wrong and Teacher will blame us. Like David’s doing. Complete with lecture.

polygonlucy
polygonlucy
4 years ago

“@cyberwulf : it’s the *police* role to stop them from killing elected guys. Not the role of random guys in the street.”

And when the “*police*” are the one’s doing a lot of the killing of people of colour, or locking them up disproportionately, and are otherwise a serious part of the problem in this country, shall people of colour wait patiently for you, holding hands, while you pressure your municipality for police reform?

Does it not follow for you that police forces that shoot unarmed black men are racist and that relying on them to put an end to racial violence and the murder of elected officials who oppose it is lunacy?

Does your attitude not strike you as racist?
What remedy do you offer to people of colour while you work out reforming police? Shall they hide inside their homes?

BVH
BVH
4 years ago

it’s the *police* role to stop them from killing elected guys. Not the role of random guys in the street.

If law enforcement and the ppl claiming to investigate hate groups did their fucking jobs, Antifa/ARA wouldn’t need to be doing it for them.

Unless you’re suggesting stand around and do nothing….

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ ohlmann

I understand where you’re coming from but, over here at least, your average politician doesn’t have police protection. Two police officers were involved in the apprehension of Jo Cox’s killer; but it seems it was just lucky they were close by. The guy who did intervene sounds like he’s a bit of a hero generally; he also risked his life in a colliery accident rescue some years ago. We need more people like him.

Please note: I’m not suggesting people should tool up and go looking for trouble. I accept this is a complex issue with no definitive or universally agreed solutions.

Anyway, here’s some more about that chap:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/17/retired-miner-who-tried-to-tackle-jo-cox-was-also-hero-of-collie/

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
4 years ago

@polygonlucy : so your solution is to try to conquer the country with the police against you ?

And, no, it’s not racist to remind that the police should have the monopoly of force. Either use the system to change it, or do a revolution. But don’t believe that trying physical violence will help anything outside of a bona fide revolution. In your exemple even violence do exactly shit-all. At best you get labelled as dangerous and thrown in prison/shot dead/thrown out of the country.

I can hear the anthem “out of desperation, we only have [XXX] to try”, where XXX is a random dumb thing that vary by country, like fighting neonazis, exiting Europe, voting Trump, doing terrorism. Turn out doing litteraly anything other than the statu quo don’t mean you’re helpful.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
4 years ago

@Alan Robertshaw : that “just” mean that police in the UK have to add “protect politician” to its very long list of thing to do.

Once again, what is the alternative ? Have the politican hire thugs to protect thems ? Have a popular army, similar to the NRA nuts, defend politicians ? Won’t that make thing a lot worse even ?

And if the whole police is so preempted by far right that it refuse to correctly protect politican people and let them die, it’s time for a *revolution*. Or quitting the country if you don’t believe it’s a revolution you can win.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
4 years ago

(the parralel with the nazis should also be seen. Regardless of how noble your original cause is, if you start your own brigade to force people to agree with you, you’re well in your way to become the villain. Look at the French Revolution and Robespierre for good example of people who believed they did good thing and ended up doing absolutely horrible, insane things.)

BVH
BVH
4 years ago

the parralel with the nazis should also be seen. Regardless of how noble your original cause is, if you start your own brigade to force people to agree with you, you’re well in your way to become the villain.

I don’t think anyone’s suggested using or initiating force to get people to agree with them. People have said they have the right to defend themselves. Not seeing how those things are even vaguely alike.

And if you’re implying Nazi’s originally had any nobility to their cause, you really need to read how they got in power.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ ohlmann

It is a very complex situation. I understand your distaste at the idea of people forming their own ‘brigades’. The police though are so overstretched. It would be both impossible, and political suicide, to assign police protection to politicians at all times.

Nobody wants to see roving bands of troublemakers looking to start fights, even with fascists. There may however be a space for vulnerable groups to organise for their own protection. In London for instance the Jewish community work in partnership with the Metropolitan Police to protect themselves against anti-Semitic attacks.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/11/24936FBE00000578-0-image-a-58_1420939394735.jpg

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

I can’t speak for any PoC, but I have been assaulted on the street three times by right-wingers for being gay. And I still say fuck violence.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
4 years ago

That we are having an argument about whether it is best to protest fascist demonstrations with or without weapons really strikes home how terrible the situation has gotten.

http://iambrony.steeph.tp-radio.de/mlp/gif/169280__UNOPT__.gif

dslucia
dslucia
4 years ago

@Cyberwulf:

Pointing them out for the world to see, so that the world can see how deeply these sorts of views run and how harmful they can be, and saying that stooping to their level and trying to beat them around physically isn’t likely to help is hardly “curling into a ball” or “ignoring them and hoping they’ll go away”. And nobody here is blaming any of this on mental illness, either. It’s hardly a groundbreaking view for people to be against violence even in the face of violence, and as far as I’m aware from the near-two years I’ve been reading this blog, this place in particular has a pretty staunch and consistent anti-violence stance.

EDIT: Like, are you actually going to say that it’s the fault of the people being attacked that they’re being attacked, because they’re not carrying around weapons so that they can attack others first? Because that’s kind of what I’m getting here.

Dan Kasteray
Dan Kasteray
4 years ago

Well,

After reading over the comments I may be rethinking my earlier statement.

I don’t know, I’ve never been targeted by fascists or Neo Nazi’s but Dslucia’s comment really hit home for me.

Ddog
Ddog
4 years ago

History is full of people that believed THEIR violence was the just violence.

Handsome "These Pretzels Suck" Jack (formerly Pandapool)

At least here, the punk movement was always antifascist.

The punk movement is alive and well, man. Goth is too. You can find them all over, even readily on the internet. There’s huge swaths of them on Blogspot and Tumblr if you so wish to look. It’s one of the better things about social media, no subculture is really dead.

Of course, that’s also the shitter thing about social media, no subculture that should be dead (coughneonaziscough) is dead.

Imaginary Petal
Imaginary Petal
4 years ago

History is full of people that believed THEIR violence was the just violence.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ handsome jack

I don’t know if you’re familiar with ‘The Exploited’. If not I hope you enjoy this 🙂

https://youtu.be/FZLBmqFiGjY

Axecalibur
Axecalibur
4 years ago

Hey, all. I just wanna bring something to the attention of the thread. I’m not the only one noticing how more time, effort, and words is being expended debating the merits of antifa violence than the ideas and actions of the actual fucking neonazis, am I? Both here and elsewhere

‘Yeah, yeah, fascists suck, blah, blah. But, more importantly, both sides and they started it and MLK…’

THIS SHIT RIGHT HERE is why violence doesn’t work as an ideological tactic! There are rules, and those rules, among other things, keep the focus on the things we should be focusing on. Guess what, counter protesters. THIS ISN’T ABOUT YOU! This ain’t your blaze of glory moment. You go out itching for a fight, you get one. Great! Except then the story goes from ‘Neonazis in Sacramento, this is terrible’ to ‘Leftist goon squad beats up eccentric demonstrators, muh freedom’

You wanna defend yourselves? Fine, do what ya gotta do. Just so long as you know that a half dozen stabbing victims doesn’t help anyone and you’re not ‘the good guys’ for being a part of that

EJ (The Other One)
4 years ago

What Ohlmann said. What Ddog said.

Once you start saying that your opponents should be peaceful but you yourself reserve the right to use violence to advance your agenda; or that your opponents may only use violence in ways that you’ve vetted and deemed acceptable; then you need to reexamine your axioms because something’s off.

mrex
mrex
4 years ago

@polygonlucy

“I don’t expect anyone to revel in violence. Violence is horrible. Even violence perpetrated on bonehead nazi scum. But I do think it’s reasonable to expect that white allies of people of colour show solidarity to people of colour even if they choose to use violence when dealing with nazis.

Ok, at first I thought you were referring to self-defense, and I was totally with you. “Ignoring” violence never works. POC deserve our support. I would argue that bringing bats, as visible weapons, are more likely to serve as invitations to violence from people looking for fights, but that’s another disscussion. Supporting a POC’s right to self defense is paramount.

However, then I read this;

“I’m just going to say that not all people of colour believe in nonviolence and it’s not a white boys place to have that argument with them.”

HOLY FUCKING SHIT ARE YOU ACTUALLY ADVOCATING FOR INSTIGATING RACIAL VIOLENCE????!

OK, in the rather unlikely event that you are not some Neo-Nazi shill trying to shake us “white boys” up, you are a moron. Fuck off.

@WWTH

Don’t be so sure that you’re not a target. You may not be the proclaimed target, but often violent Neonazis/racists will happily beat or kill “their” women when said women get “uppity”.

@Scildfreja

“That we are having an argument about whether it is best to protest fascist demonstrations with or without weapons really strikes home how terrible the situation has gotten.”

Truer words. Never spoken.

mrex
mrex
4 years ago

@BVH

“Anyone who thought before this post Hitler was ever elected , you need to sue your school system. Don’t pretend you understand the mechanisms of Nazi fascism…

Yeah a lot of democracies don’t directly elect their leader. Hitler would never have been appointed if the Nazis were not elected in. Hitler would not have been able to consolidate power in the way his did if it wasn’t for the votes of the other elected politicians.

I’m not sure what your hang-up here is. Are people really saying that there never would have been a Nazi Germany if it wasn’t for Hitler being “voted in”?

These things come in steps. People talked about a “police-state” with Bush because it was a step in that direction. Now look at where we are.

These groups are rising because the middle class and the privileged are bleeding and in pain and are looking for somewhere to turn. This doesn’t excuse the shitlords that are taking advantage of them, but honestly things never go well when the middle class is pissed.

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

@SFHC
I’m so sorry that happened to you.

Aerinea
Aerinea
4 years ago

This is actually relevant to the Sacramento protest and violence. It’s the letter sent out to BUSD parents from the Superintendent.

Dear Community,
On Sunday, June 26, there was a political protest in Sacramento that became violent, and we subsequently learned that one of the people involved in the situation is a teacher at King Middle School. Since then, we have received multiple communications expressing concern about this incident, including an anonymous email that threatened that if the teacher in question were not fired within the week, the letter writer would come to King with the intent to harm our students. Even though school is not in session, it is important for the community to know about the situation, and know our response to the appalling threat made to the safety of children.
The FBI has reviewed the email, and by their criteria considered it to be a low level threat. However, the Berkeley Police and the District are taking the threat seriously; we have increased police patrols and security, and we have relocated two summer school camps that rent our facilities during the summer. We are grateful to Principal Janet Levenson for dealing immediately and thoughtfully with the situation, and to District staff for finding alternative space for summer camps.
If you discuss this occurrence with children, we encourage you to be honest with them, but not to say more than they can handle or need to know. They need to know that they are safe, and that we adults are going to take care of them.
We have also been fielding messages asking whether the teacher in question will be fired for her political activities. As a public school district, we must comply with the U.S. and California Constitutions, and follow relevant state law and the provisions of the collective bargaining agreement related to employment. Although there are protections for our employees, we also want to be clear that they must comply with Board policies with respect to classroom discussions of controversial topics. We cannot comment further on the specifics of the personnel matter, as employee disciplinary matters are confidential.
It is important to state that we do not support the use of violence in confronting speech. We want our students to learn critical thinking skills and be able to engage in thoughtful and informed debate. While we may find beliefs espoused by racist and anti-immigrant organizations to be abhorrent, there are productive ways to respond to hate speech that do not involve violence.
In this disturbing time of national and international expressions of intolerance, we return to the words of Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr,, for whom King Middle School is named:
Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Thank you,
Donald Evans, Ed.D., Superintendent
Beatriz Levya-Cutler, School Board President

Shaenon
4 years ago

Hey, all. I just wanna bring something to the attention of the thread. I’m not the only one noticing how more time, effort, and words is being expended debating the merits of antifa violence than the ideas and actions of the actual fucking neonazis, am I?

That’s exactly why MLK consistently refused to condemn violent civil rights activists, even though he was a strong believer in nonviolence. It turns the conversation to how the victims of oppression should behave, instead of how the oppressors should.

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
4 years ago

@Scildfreja

That we are having an argument about whether it is best to protest fascist demonstrations with or without weapons really strikes home how terrible the situation has gotten.

It’s a bit depressing that we’re bickering among ourselves like that too.

I understand both positions. I’ll stick to non-violence myself for practical reasons : I’m simply not built for this shit anymore. Nor do I want to be again. But I won’t blame those who go out there expecting a fight. I won’t approve of looking for said fight, but the sad reality is that you have to expect it. Ohlmann, you don’t seem to realize that the police isn’t exactly on our side here. The fascist marches a few months ago in Belgium ? Police escorted them there. And the fascists were armed ! Know the term “ratonnade” ? That’s what they wanted to do. That’s what the police themselves used to do, and visibly want to do again. Only reason no one got hurt is because the targeted showed their fangs and scared the shit out of the bastards.

We have goddamn lynch mobs in the street now, out for blood. Sadly we’ve lost the luxury of being able to just walk up to them and counter-protest.

I just hope this whole thing dies down before more people get hurt.

weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo
weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo
4 years ago

Mrex,

I don’t know if it’s your intent but you’re coming off as weirdly hostile.

I’m aware that fascist ideology and misogyny go together and they’re perfectly capable of violence against women. That doesn’t mean they roam around looking for mainstream looking white women to beat up.

polygonlucy
polygonlucy
4 years ago

“However, then I read this;

“I’m just going to say that not all people of colour believe in nonviolence and it’s not a white boys place to have that argument with them.”

HOLY FUCKING SHIT ARE YOU ACTUALLY ADVOCATING FOR INSTIGATING RACIAL VIOLENCE????!”

Super unfortunate that what I said was interpreted as that, so let me be crystal clear:

I support marginalized people using whatever tactic they need to use to protect themselves in their struggles.

I have no idea how you got what your saying from that.

I am calling out the liberals on this website for criticizing people of colour and their allies for using violence as a tactic when dealing with nazis. I am accusing you of being blinded by your privilege and of being racist.

THAT IS ALL. I am not instigating racial violence, I am defending the use of violence when dealing with nazis. Note that unless all white people are nazis, you cannot possibly arrive at the conclusion you are arriving at.

FrickleFrackle
FrickleFrackle
4 years ago

I don’t think violence is good. It can be justified, but it can’t be morally good. I also don’t think it’s okay to attack first. I understand why people would, but I don’t like it. Mind you, no one wants to kill me as far as I know, but I sincerely hope I wouldn’t resort to force even if I would be in danger because of it.

Also, while I don’t think the police should have a monopoly on force because I’m (perhaps foolishly) a believer that *most* people won’t abuse it, police should ideally be the ones who are most allowed to use it, and for people to trust that police aren’t corrupt. Does anyone know what should be done about police corruption? That’s one of the scariest things possible to me.

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

@WWTH

I don’t know if it’s your intent but you’re coming off as weirdly hostile.

Agreed.

Bryce
Bryce
4 years ago

I am calling out the liberals on this website for criticizing people of colour and their allies for using violence as a tactic when dealing with nazis. I am accusing you of being blinded by your privilege and of being racist.

THAT IS ALL. I am not instigating racial violence, I am defending the use of violence when dealing with nazis.

No but you’re arguing for initiating violence against as a valid tactic for shutting down pro-fascist rallies.

I support the right for counter-protesters to block, shout-down, and defend themselves if necessary, but not to just outright attack people. As threatening as it is Neo-nazis have a right to assembly as much as anyone else in the US.