The horrendous, deeply saddening Jo Cox murder has stirred up a lot of ugliness, some of which I wrote about yesterday.
Yesterday I found a good deal of ugliness on Twitter (no surprise) and the internet Nazi tabloid The Daily Stormer (even less of a surprise). Now the hateful failed humans who think the murder was a good thing are delivering the ugliness right to my door — specifically, to the comments section of this blog.
I didn’t let the following comments through moderation, but I thought they needed a little sunlight — sunlight being the best disinfectant, as people say.
Someone calling himself only “Steve” informed me:
I do not live in the UK (thank the Lord) but this woman was a traitor, we have shot traitors for millenia.
Apparently trying to rise above the bigotry that the British (or at least a portion of them) have too often displayed towards immigrants counts as “treason.”
I think its just dandy the tha “political class” can enjoy the sting of violence instead of the general public.
Contemplating the murder of those he disagrees with makes him smile.
Politicians are not listening to the people the guy that did this is a patriot even to you bleating lefties.
A racist murderer with connections to American Nazis and pro-apartheid South Africans is a “patriot” only to those who share not only his bigotries but also his thirst for blood.
I think the time has come where we need to split the countries we live in those left leaning need to piss off to one side and vice versa.
Might I suggest you and your friends relocate here?
We can no longer live together because the left is willing to give what myself and my family have fought for. you lefties you can live with the muslim scum should you wish but do not force your crap onto me. Where are your tears for Lee Rigby?
I was horrified by Rigby’s brutal murder. I didn’t go around declaring his killers to be “patriots.”
Shortly after “Steve” tried to post this comment, I got this stream-of-consciousness rant from another anonymous hero, which I have censored slightly:
Writer who can’t write for sh*t, for a piece of sh*t lefty blog, defending a cult of death promoter all while claiming the right are responsable when its really just left wing niave dumb f*cks who ask for death when they sell out our country to a group of people who worship a peado, treat women and anyone who doesnt follow their exact beliefs (even other muslims) like animals.
Presumably he is referring to Cox as a promoter of a “cult of death.”
Left wingers at this point are more dangerous than the jihadi f*cks in syria, seein as thier hell bent on getting them over here.
Well, no, we’ re interested in helping those who are fleeing the “jihadi f*cks.” That’s what refugees are.
More Jo coxes dead the better, perhaps a few ignorant lefty fucks in here as well.
That sounds an awful lot like a terrorist threat.
No im not rightwing im not even political but i do have half a brain to see that the left live in a dream candy land where everyone is nice (except righties, to the leftey r death worthy ofc)
None of us here are under the illusion that “everyone is nice (except righties … ).” For example, those who are celebrating the murder of Jo Cox aren’t very nice, even if they declare themselves “not rightwing … not even political.”
When I refused to let this comment through, the author returned with this followup:
Lol only letting lefty bum lickers post comments, you are pathetic, you can’t write for sh*t and you and your family will probably get raped and beheaded by the filth you so desperatly want here but yep keep believing that their whole religion isnt about control and exterminatio of everyone that isnt one of them (including you) as their “holy book” tells them this is not only ok to do but is their duty, also by any means nessecary.
That was all one sentence. At least if we define “sentence” rather loosely.
But I will offer a bet to the commenter, and anyone else who wants to take it, that I and my family will not in fact “get raped and beheaded by the filth [I] so desperatly want here.” If within, say, 20 years, I do not “get raped and beheaded” by Muslim immigrants, you will owe me $10,000. If I do get raped and beheaded, I will pay you a cool million.
When I didn’t post this second comment from our anonymous hero, he sent along a third one, directly mostly at me and the commenters here. He managed to work in three slang terms for “vagina.” I think I’ll let that one remain unpublished
So, this is a little off topic, having more to do with MGTOWs and PUAs, but I suspect there’s a fairly large overlap.
This morning I woke up with this phrase in my head as befitting all of the above:
Illegible bachelors.
With regards to this post, it pleases me to see people who can’t hold a thought long enough to string together the words to express it criticize others’ writing. You go, all you special snowflakes.
I don’t have many words for what I’m feeling right now. Horror and sadness at what some people of my country are capable of. What our media has become, particularly the newspapers. The insidious subculture of vile xenophobia that has grown like a mould under the surface – until now. Regret that we let things get this far.
For years we dressed ourselves as a nation of tolerance and multiculturalism. Then the referendum debate happened, and then Jo Cox was murdered, and now the veil has fallen. What are we going to do about it, is the question. What are we going to do about the fascists that feed these kinds of vicious attitudes? What are we going to do about the sympathisers who at this very moment are all over comment sections denying that the killer shouted “Britain First/Put Britain first” (even though it’s now official statement), insisting he had nothing to do with the right-wing and it was all because of mental illness? The ones that are trying to shut down discussion by screaming that we’re “politicising Jo’s murder” when we try to address what caused her to be killed in the first place? She was killed because of hate, and evidence is mounting that it was political hate. Why are we not allowed to talk about it?? There’s “scoring political points” and there’s trying to prevent this from happening again. I’m angry at those who, as it seems, would rather we shut up and forget it happened at all.
Excuse me while I pour a glass of wine and perhaps cry a little. I will leave you with this video that speaks volumes.
https://www.facebook.com/LBC/videos/10154053359791558/
David, thank you! You take a lot of hits for this team.
These commenters reveal that
1. They do not believe in democracy. They believe in government by the barrel of a gun or the blade of a knife.
2. They believe that Jo Cox is a traitor. I’m sure they have something something to explain why Parliament mourns her and the police arrest her killer.
At least, these are their stated beliefs.
Jeeesy. Well that was awful.
You can’t claim to be apolitical while supporting the murder of people you don’t like for political reasons. “Scary brown people shouldn’t be allowed into my country” is a political position. “Murder is acceptable if it furthers my goals” is a political position.
@sunnysombrera – thanks for sharing the video. Have as much wine as you want/need.
@Iseult – thank you for the chuckles! “Illegible bachelors” is sheer genius. Normally I don’t pick on people’s literacy, but to say that someone “can’t write for shit” when you’re only loosely acquainted with words yourself … well, that door is well and truly opened.
I share this earlier post of yours on my social media. I have a lot of friends there from many different countries and it scares me to think that any of them read it and then commented this. I mean that could be the way many people like that find this page. You never truly know your friends until something big or bad happen. Even your family. Scarey thought.
But anyway, still it disgusts me the way people can justify death so cheaply. Jo seemed to love her home abd her country. People too, all people. The world needs more like her. Not less.
So quick to run to terms like “traitor” and “patriot” to make discussion basically impossible. When you’ve defined “treason” as “acting against my personal interests”, what can’t you justify?
These are the same folks who yap about “protecting our women from the brown people” right? Anyone who kills someone in cold blood like this is a scumbag. Regardless of their race, religion political beliefs ect. Would they be calling the killer a patriot if he was a Muslim? I highly doubt it.
Gotta love little shits like these guys who think they’re all big and bad because EVERYONE who posts here for the first time is put through moderation. “Oh, I was put through moderation! You’re scared of THE TRUTH!”
No, you’re not dropping “truth bombs” on our little “echo chamber”, you’re being put through the same shit everyone else goes through around here.
We’re not like reddit, where any asshole with an account can march in and just say what-the-fuck-ever. You’re not some badass rebel because we put you through moderation, and you’re not automagically “right” because we don’t want to hear the same xenophobic garbage from ANOTHER asshole today.
Not wanting to engage with you = your “victory”.
It just means we don’t want to engage with you because there’s no fucking point in engaging with someone who isn’t interested in engaging, but rather wants to just shout xenophobic, racist, sexist bullshit over you, while pretending they’re somehow the rational ones in the conversation.
@PI
What’s even funny is that it’s literally bigot bingo with these people. “We’re dropping the TRUTH, (that we parrot ad nauseum).”
They think it’s debate when all it ends up being is me or you or anyone who isn’t a bigot fact checking the illiteracy of right wing propoganda and ur-fascism.
EDIT: From the other thread thank you guys for letting me vent, and for letting me know that leaving that toxic person behind was for the best.
If I could have one wish granted, at this moment, it would be that too much hatred becomes toxic and eventually kills the assholes who thrive on hate.
I think the time has come where we need to split the countries we live in those left leaning need to piss off to one side and vice versa.
Am I wrong for thinking this would be… nice? The people who comment like this aren’t interested in living together or tolerating anything, so why try? Help them pack, move to Bouvet Island or somewhere else with agreeable weather, where they get exactly the isolation and homogeneity that they want – no women ruining their lives, nobody of a slightly dark skin tone, guns handed out like popcorn, whatever.
I’m having a really bad time this week due to all this, but I’m really not seeing the drawback here just now.
Frightening to think that people like this commenter live among us…
Oh, no, I agree with you. It just would be beneficial if they would go fuck off and live elsewhere. Of course, they’ll insist that they should get to say where everyone goes, just so they can make sure they have all the best resources.
I find it interesting that second dude complained Muslims “treat women and anyone who doesnt follow their exact beliefs like animals.” Sure doesn’t remind me of any other groups of people whose names may or may not rhyme with “malt slight.”
Gotta love how that second guy TWICE insulted your writing ability, in the midst of comments that were nearly incomprehensible.
@PI
My cat has made more relevant and coherent things in her litterbox than these yo-yos have ever written.
When I first came to the UK, and later moved here, one of the things I appreciated was that compared to Americans English people seemed less affected by the media–people had stronger social connections and interacted more with their neighbours and colleagues, which seemed to give them more opportunities for reality checks. People spent time in pubs, or other places where they had conversations with strangers, and were more involved in such local community groups as casual sports teams, choirs, am-dram, and all the apparatus of general social involvement that I never saw much of in the US.
I myself have had several conversations with random strangers, at the pub or the allotment or wherever, when said random stranger would say something like, for example, ‘it’s terrible how these poor/Traveller kids come in and vandalise things’, and I’d reply ‘actually it’s a lot more likely to be the rich local kids, since they know they won’t face consequences for their behaviour’, and after a few more interchanges said random stranger would think about it and then say ‘yeah, that’s true–you’re right’, and walk away thinking differently.
But now I’m facing the fact (succinctly described in the link Sunnysombrera posted) that the ability of the modern capitalist media to manipulate people’s reality is just too strong to counteract with actual reality, even here–or even anywhere (last couple of times I’ve been in Sweden I’ve had some unsettling conversations about government, taxes and ‘others’ with people who really ought to know better).
These people are applauding the violent death of a woman who was using peaceful methods to promote her views, but of course, we’re the real monsters here.
Seems totally logical.
“Angry commenter” told you that?
More like a piece of shit commenter.
Nope nope nope nope. The Koran doesn’t promote killing. Like the Bible, you can *INTERPRET IT* that way, but it doesn’t overtly condone going out and brutally murdering your neighbors because they won’t recite the Shahadah. But of course, it would require like… 5 minutes of time and an ounce or two of cultural sensitivity to look beyond White America to try to understand another culture.
Just like we have assholes in this country who would, if the law allowed it, brutally persecute and murder LGBTQ people, non-Christians, etc., so too in Islamic nations there is a germ of bigotry and ____phobia (fill in the blank with whatever you want, really) that drives *SOME* of them to do the same. The common factor is that in both groups (Americans and Near Easterners) there are some bad apples in amongst the mostly good people. I have been to the Near East (Turkey, Israel, and Greece) and I have seen that they are some of the kindest, most hospitable people on earth. The way we were received in some households while there would put most American hosts to utter shame and humiliation. And while we were in the homes or workplaces of people, we were not threatened, we weren’t asked to convert, we weren’t told anything about the Muslim religion unless we asked. Similarly, we did not threaten or coerce our Christian faith on them. There were no threats of violence, just learning of culture, learning of language, etc. that went both ways.
The difference is simply that the geopolitical and industrioscientific history of the world has led the North American continent to be a relatively stable political environment while the Near Eastern subcontinent is relatively unstable.
One (weak) attempt at an explanation for this is that “them there jihadi SOBs just luv 2 kill each uther 2 much” and that’s why it’s unstable. Another could be that Western civilization has had a sordid history mucking around in the near east that goes back to at least the early Middle Ages (earlier if you count pre-Christian Roman conquests in Judaea/Palestine).
I think probably the best attempt at giving a level-headed, minimally-biased explanation for the difference in political stability between a country like America and a country like Syria was offered by Jared Diamond’s “Guns, Germs, and Steel.” This work was well written and looked at how the relative abundance of resources, stability of climate, axis of a continent, etc. all contribute to the spread of ideas, influence, and influenza (See? See what I did there? Alliteration! MGTOWs and Neo-Nazis take note: it’s word-smithing, I tell you!). He ties together threads of numerous dumb-luck characteristics of the lands we inhabit to help shed some light on why some countries are resource-rich today and some are resource-poor.
Of course any attempt to do this has SOME bias and of course it cannot take into consideration *ALL* contributing factors. As such, it is of course not the final word, but in the final analysis, I think it gives a really good overview of the history of the world and how it got to be as diverse, bloody, and messy as it is today.
But of course, I lost the crowd that writes the kind of comments Dave Futrelle shared in this post when I used the first comma. They would probably tell me that “Commas are for fa***t p***y liberal arts women’s studies majors who don’t know how to slap their wife around enough to make her shut up and cook dinner” or something similarly enlightened.
What do the rest of you think? This is a problem that perennially frustrates me: I feel I have a great deal to share with people who operate from a position of ignorance, but often I find that they are *willfully* ignorant and refuse to listen. In their minds, I am already evil simply because I want to have a conversation about what they’re saying rather than immediately saying “By golly fella, you’re right! It *IS* the J00z + blacks!”
Has anyone found an effective means of cutting through that kind of nasty crap to get people talking, sharing their pain, listening to what you have to say? I’m not looking for a one-way conversation. I’m happy to listen to them as long as they’ll listen to me. I just don’t want to listen to a 10 minute rant about conspiracy theories only to find that my own contribution is hooted down without thinking because what is the point?
@DS
Coming from personal experience, the answer is a clear and simple “No.”
Frankly all the documentaries where the person is able to change them is by isolating them from their group and challenging them in as calm and nonaggressive pattern until their barriers start to break of their own accord. This is a one on one conversation.
You can’t logic people when their position is literally one of emotion, specifically fear and hate. They’ll double down and it ends up being “no you are wrong on every factual level and here is why, you dumbass” for the rest of the conversation.
@Shalimar
My friend, I hear you. Hatred does eventually become toxic and lead to an untimely demise, but alas, this takes years to happen and is the difference between living to 93 or 83. By then, they’ve done their damage (in the form of awful voting, awful bigotry, sometimes awful violence, and the worst of all: breeding to pass on their awful IQ). What can you do? It would be unethical to kill ’em; that would just be sinking to their level, after all.
So I suppose what is left is for us to be aware of what people who think this way are doing, what they’re saying, what kinds of meetings their having, and to what extent they have the ear of the press and the power structures of various countries. Then, we wait for the next Hitler and hope that we can have a more successful go at stopping the next one than Dietrich Bonhoffer and countless other would-be assassins did. Because what else can we do? We can educate, we can sow the seeds of peace and of higher education, we can try to stamp out mental illness by making psychiatric care high quality and broadly available, but at the end of the day some people will just choose to be evil and to lord it over the rest of us, for whom there is no other solution than the most tenacious resistance possible.
Umm… c*nt, tw*t and p*ssy? Sorry, my mind immediately went to working out what the three terms were.
Reading this sort of comment makes me realise that the most terrifying thing about the idea of Trump winning in the States isn’t the idea of Trump as president. I’m fairly certain there are enough intelligent people in the upper echelons to make sure that if a silo gets an order to fire a nuke, they’ll check to see if the order came directly from the Oval Office, and if so, to check that everybody else agrees. And if no one else does, they’ll wait a couple of hours to see if he changes his mind.
No, the terrifying idea is that the moment Trump was declared winner, these types would assume everything was permitted and start going after the traitors/brown people/Jews/feminazis/babykillers/guy who cut them off at McDonald’s, and the night of his victory would see the highest single-day murder rate the States has known since… I don’t know, Wounded Knee or something.
I’m going to stay quietly cuddled up in my Canadian utopia, thanks. At least any true Manly Men will have to defeat our Prime Minister in single combat before they can call him a wimp, even if he is a feminist with great hair. And I’m not sure any of them would want to face a fight without the protection of a gun.
I’m aware this whole comment lacks any link to the UK situation. Sorry. I don’t think I have any words for that. These are just the thoughts that come to mind.
Disgusting. Vile. Just vile.
I love the fact that Trump fans are embracing the helicopter meme because it shows that they’re as much in love with the fascist dictators of South America as they are with the proto-fascism of Donald Trump. Of course, they’d celebrate the murder of a leftist politician, because they don’t value Democracy or the role of elected representatives. Totalitarian regimes of all brands celebrate the demise of the opposition.
But the opposition – a loyal opposition – has an important role to play in a representative democracy. It’s one of the reasons that I’m so sad about Jeremy Corbyn – because with him at the helm the opposition is less effective. It’s one of the reasons that I’m horrified by the decline of the old GOP. I would have never voted for them, I didn’t agree with them, but when they showed a shred of statecraft, they were an important part of the American political process. Now, by and large, they’re just a disgusting vile pantomime shadow – obstructionist and destructionist.
Jo Cox was, by all accounts, a diligent opposition politician providing reasoned, informed scrutiny. She was assigned a committee where she didn’t have much background experience and she reached out to get the knowledge she needed. She wasn’t afraid either to reach across the floor and work with Conservative MPs where they had areas of agreement.
I don’t know if UK MPs are uniquely accessible, but they are very accessible. I know that I’m part of the machine, so I have more access, but by and large I’ve found them easy to converse with and engage with on topics. When I’ve personally disagreed with them on the finer details of policy, they have listened to me (and me to them – some have changed my mind). I get annoyed when they’re generally traduced, but I’m shocked and horrified by Jo Cox’s murder and I’m sickened by comments like these which are possibly even more undermining to our democracy than her murder. I never met Jo Cox, but given the campaign she was about to start, I probably would have at some point and I can say that we – as a nation – will miss her contribution to that issue and many others. And I personally don’t support the Labour party.
As an American, I’m horrified that her killer was stoked up by American hate groups and likely got the information about how to arm himself from American groups.