Far Right, Trump fans celebrate murder of UK Labour MP Jo Cox

@ guest

It’s completely understandable to be upset by this horrible murder. But part of the reason it’s so shocking is precisely because such events are so rare and unexpected. Perhaps you can take some comfort for the fact that the almost universal response to this callous killing has been condemnation of the perpetrator and expressions of sympathy and tributes to his victim.

As for the malicious wankers quoted in the original post, their hatred is matched only by their stupidity. It’s true immigration is an issue in the EU debate (a major one but not the only one) but the concerns are about white immigration. Ironically they’d find more fellow travellers within the European Parliament, which contains a worryingly large number of unapologetic fascist parties.

ETA: not suggesting anyone here in the remain camp falls into that category of course, the EU is a complex issue and there’s plenty of arguments for staying in.

@Alan Jo Cox’s murder is horrible, but what’s really upsetting me is the ugliness stirred up by the Leavers. I’m also disturbed by the fact that (although I haven’t exercised it much) I can currently work anywhere in the EU if I choose to–if we leave, that will no longer be true. And, as I’ve explained to a few people, I think membership in the EU is the only thing supporting the rights we currently have as workers, consumers and citizens. I’ve seen some brochures saying things like ‘we could spend all the money we’re giving to the EU on the NHS if we leave’…how likely is that? In addition to the economic disruption caused by leaving, our living standards will plummet once businesspeople and conservative government are no longer constrained by broader regulations. So…did I make the right decision? I’d be feeling a lot safer somewhere else in Europe right now.

@IP Too bad I don’t like mushrooms 🙁

@guest

But are you vegetarian? The main course for meat eaters was the same thing but with lamb instead of the mushroom.

Nothing the far right says suprises me anymore. If these scumbags existed in the 1860s they’d be calling John Wilks Booth a “patriot”

I view them as accomplices in a very real sense.

Quoted for truth.

People are dying in the east to join the European Union and people are dying in the west to remain in it.

@ guest

I can understand your concerns. I’m marginally in favour of leave (but not especially passionate about it, might not even vote, that’s not apathy, just leaving it to people who do have strong feelings and go along with the democratic choice)

If we do Brexit my preferred option would be to join EFTA. I’d also keep all the free movement provisions (although I can understand people wanting the ability to deport serious sexual and violent offenders). I’m actually in favour of free movement within the Commonwealth too.

Under that option nothing much would change. TAFTA is going to subsume all the EU regs on trade, and we can be part of that as easily under EFTA as through the EU and TTIP. Most of the things people are concerned about in terms of workers’s rights are actually more beneficial under UK law the a the EU requirements anyway (stuff like maternity leave, maternity pay, paid holidays etc.). EU environmental and consumer law is directly copied from UK law so that’s not an issue either.

Ironically I think the old Bennite left wing case for Brexit is actually stronger than the right wing one. The EU is specially set up to promote capitalism and free trade as a priority so I can see why a lot of old school socialists aren’t too keen on that. It is true that EU immigrants add about £20 billion to the UK economy, but not a lot of that trickles down and the bottom 10% of society are supposedly worse off.

To give you an example from my own experience, I do a lot of work for a series of companies involved in construction (in reality one entity with lots of linked companies I set up). They use east European labour, import materials from Scandinavia and pay tax in whatever country offers the best deal at the time. That’s great for their workers. They’re young lads who work 70-80 hour weeks. It’s not just the cliche they work harder (although that’s true) but they’re much higher skilled than the indigenous labour force. They work here for a few years and save the cash, then they go home and set up businesses their with their capital. Whilst they are here they live pretty cheaply. A landlord of a family size house can stick 2 beds in each bedroom and 2 in the living room and charge £60 a week. The guys love that, they’re hardly there so they just need a place to crash. The landlord is getting nearly £1500 a month so he’s happy; but how many families can afford that?

Immigration is a major issue in the EU debate, but I think for most people it’s about economics rather than race.

Tl;dr. under the most likely Brexit scenarios your position would remain unchanged.

Not to be weird, but maybe a post on the brutal murder of a woman and the terrifying reactions it has elicited isn’t the best place for a discussion on the finer points of veganism?

Just feels really disrespectful to me. :/

IP wanted to share something they were excited about, and I appreciated that they did it.

I’m still half asleep, but what I’m getting from pancake troll’s screeds is that criticizing people for celebrating the murder of Jo Cox makes us equivalent to Pol Pot, Stalin, and Mao. At least they didn’t compare us to Hitler!

Isn’t it now confirmed that the shooter was in a neo-Nazi group? So, troll is wrong.

BTW, troll. It’s kind of pathetic to dare us to bring the vitriol when you’re just a drive by thread shitter.

Ohlman,

Part of it is the stereotype of the militant vegan, I suppose. None of the vegans I’ve known are like that though. I find the paleo diet fans much more pushy and militant.

Part of it is that some people get weirdly offended by people liking and disliking different foods. See the New York vs. Chicago pizza wars.

@Ohlmann

Probably the tendency for them to be rude and pushy, and racist, ableist, and classcist.

I’ve seen some pretty nasty and ignorant things out of vegans. And that doesn’t mean all of them are bad, but they’re not very good about collecting their trash. If it were just vegans going around calling people silly names like “bloodmouth” I could probably shrug it off, but I’ve seen them get very combative with poor people who can’t afford vegan diets, and all manner of disabled people who have a wide variety of reasons vegan diets just can’t work for them.

There’s also with some of them a tendency to trend foods like quinoa, and they’ll going around acting morally superior about their vegan diets, while ignoring how much damage the quinoa trend is doing to actual human beings.

Then there’s the ones who compare cows to rape victims and livestock in general to slaves.

My own first experience with a vegan was my high school CP English teacher. She would lecture our class about how vegan foods like tofu are superior and way more healthy, and in general carrying on like she was better than other people for having a healthier lifestyle. I mostly ignored this, until the day I discovered she was a chain smoker. (She also went off on this bizarre tangent one time, about how anal sex loosens your anal muscles and you’ll end up in diapers, so don’t do that.)

I can’t say anyone who’s encountered this sort of behavior has an irrational hatred of vegans. Personally, as an autistic person with major issues with food textures, I tend to twitch whenever I see them. I can’t change or control the fact that a lot of the foods they champion have a texture that makes my tongue try to curl up in the fetal position. Being chastised and called names for something like that is going to be off-putting to most people, I think.