UPDATE 2, 1 PM central time
Horrific news out of Orlando: A gunman armed with an assault rifle and other weapons killed at least 50 in a terrorist attack the Pulse nightclub in Orlando; more than 50 have been taken to hospitals.
The gunman, killed in a shootout with police, has been identified as Omar Mateen; the Daily Beast reports that he was previously investigated by the FBI. NBC is reporting that before the shootngs he called 911 and swore allegiance to ISIS.
NBC is also reporting that Mateen was a violent homophobe, according to his father. It seems clear that the club was deliberately targeted because it catered to the LGBT community. The father told NBC that the shootng was likely motivated by his son’s hatred of gays. “This had nothing to do with religion,” he told them.
His ex-wife told the Washington Post that he was an unstable and abusive man. “He beat me,” she saud. “He would just come home and start beating me up because the laundry wasn’t finished or something like that.”
Horrendous.
Meanwhile, 4chan trolls are busily spreading disinformation about the shooting.
Please post your thoughts, and any relevant information you run across.
@Victorious Parasol never
People like him want to believe that they’re too “good” and “godly” to ever have anything in common with anyone who’s not white and cishet.
I wonder how many of the “we must take immediate action to protect the women and children” from people using a bathroom will say they are currently too busy this term to take up any new legislation when discussing any gun bills.
I knew something like that would happen, but it didn’t take long for the victim blaming to start, did it?
I’m scared that it would take a civil war for the US to ban assault rifles amongst the general population.
Somehow I doubt even that would help.
But then again I’ve grown very jaded over the last few months with all the things I’ve learned about the horrors committed in and by the US
Donald Trump has made a tweet in response to this tragedy saying he appreciates that he was right about islamic terrorists
Someone get that man a brain, heart, and bigger fucking hands please.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36512308
I realise that this event is going to leave everyone reeling for quite a long time, but there was one detail that I thought shouldn’t be allowed to get lost amongst the shock and anger, and grief.
The article makes mention of there being a police officer in the club, who exchanged fire with the gunman.
Usually, following such a tragedy, people lament that everything could have been prevented if bystanders had been armed and willing to engage the shooter in a standoff. Well, this time there was our bystander, and he was involved in the deadliest mass shooting in US history.
I really want to know whether that “good guy with a gun” did everything he could to handle the situation and failed, or whether his involvement escalated the violence. I think that’s a discussion that needs to take place in the media when people want to dismiss pleas for gun control.
And I hope that this time it stirs a meaningful change.
@JSun Oh I guarantee he will get far, far worse in the next hour or two.
I am sure before this day is out he will find a way to blame this on the current administration. Then go on TV and say that if he was president this person would never have been able to accomplish this (without giving any specifics on how the heck he would do that) and then say that this will happen again if anyone but him is elected.
This is so fucking awful. It seems clear the this had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with homophobia.
What a fucking bastard. Just people out on a night out, having fun. For fucks sake.
Grá agus taca ó Éire libh.
Where did I accuse him (or you) of anything? I said it suggests a possibility. Please learn to read before you jump all over something I didn’t even say.
Altofronto, it looks as though the police response saved many lives rather than escalating the situation.
To those who don’t want the name of the killer mentioned, the name is out there already; we need to know who did this to understand why. Without his name being out there we would not have gotten the information from his ex-wife and from his father.
@Bina
That’s barely different from an accusation and is based entirely on a false stereotype of people who ‘work out often’
@Alto
Islam isn’t to blame for this. Muslims aren’t to blame for this. That human pathogen is responsible for his own malignant actions. I just get so sick and tired of people couching their hatred of brown people in a pretend ‘criticism’ of Islam
You know what tho? Actually talking about actual Islam with actual Muslims in an actually productive fashion could do some, actual good. Nope, ain’t gonna happen. People like you and me aren’t important in this country. Donald fucking Trump is. And Obama’s a seekrit moozlum, so he’s not to be trusted
@JSun + Bina
Please… stop it
@David,
I was one of those who asked for the name to not be mentioned. I understand. I will not be offended if folks talk here about it. I get that we need to find out why before we can stop future events.
All I hope is that when people think back on this event next year the discussion is centered around the victims, survivors and solutions that resulted because of it instead of glorifying the acts of the murderer by focusing primarily on him.
Please drop the steroids discussion; there’s no evidence for it
Obama now speaking about the massacre, discussing it as an act of hate deliberately targeting an LBGT club.
And now we’re going to see lots of people everywhere speaking out against one type of bigotry by using another type of bigotry.
David, I actually checked out the 4chan threads. It’s… well, 4chan. Some users used Omar’s ethnicity as a “gotcha” moment against perceived liberals, because most American mass shooters are right wing white men . Others made the usual derogatory remarks against Muslims and Middle Easterners. Others mocked the idea of Obama giving another speech. Others said liberals’ tolerance of Muslims will lead to more killings and make America “cucked”.
There was even a poorly drawn cartoon of America being infected by insects, caricatures of Mexicans and black people, while European countries back away from America in horror, some of them infected by insects, caricatures of Muslims. America spouts random, incomprehensible jargon.
There were random anime girls, pictures glorifying Trump, random picks, Pepe the Frog etc. The usual. How is 4chan edgy again? This kind of stuff is so banal these days its become dull. If 4chan was some kind of modern art masterpiece about the banality of human evil it would all make sense.
@makroth And then ignore such bigotry later when it’s ‘true Americans’ saying/doing the same things. 😛
@Axecalibur. I know Islam isn’t to blame for this… I think we both agree on that
But I also don’t think it’s up to all Muslims to defend themselves against persecution by constantly proving that they’re normal human beings.
@David – It’s a small comfort to know that at least some were saved, who otherwise might have perished. Sorry if anything I’ve posted has come off as insensitive, It’s hard to respond to a tragedy of this magnitude, and especially while primary information is still being released.
When nothing changed after Sandy Hook, I said it would take a roomful of babies being shot to death to get meaningful gun control.
I no longer think that would be enough. No matter how many deaths, no matter who, it won’t change anything. People’s minds have to change first, and I don’t know how to make that happen.
More than fifty people dead because somebody decided to shoot people who were out having fun. I don’t even know what to say about that. I should be shocked, but you can’t be shocked anymore by gun violence in the U.S.; it just is, it just happens, and people shrug their shoulders and go on. It seems like this should be something rare and unthinkable – like this shouldn’t be something that just happens, right? There’s places where this doesn’t just happen. It’s possible for a country to be like that. And yet nothing changes, except for who is dead.
Over fifty people dead because one person didn’t want to see two men kissing. That’s a sentence that makes no sense, and yet it describes something that happened. I don’t understand.
I’ve been a coward about this so far, I’ve been seeing the headlines and not clicking on them.
I can’t see how America will ever find a way out of the worsening cycle of violence. At least in war zone people can have the hope of eventual peace, but what do you when a country is at war with itself?
I hate that.
I am petty enough to derive a bit of satisfaction to see that guns (and the NSA) are useless against thoses attacks, but that’s very minor compared to the death toll.
While it’s only based on caricatures, he do look like a far right extremist to me. Violent, angry, in the security business.
For the steroid thing, it might be born of local climate. I know that half the guy who workout a lot among the people I know use steroids. I don’t know if it’s the case everywhere, but saying high workout don’t increase the odds he was on steroid seem false. Now, I can see the unfortunate implications.
I don’t think it’s really about changing peoples’ minds. I can’t remember the poll or exact numbers, but an overwhelming majority of people want gun control legislation. Even the majority of NRA members want gun control.
The only people who need their minds changed are the people in the Congress and Senate, taking gobfulls of bribes / “donation” money from the NRA and gun manufacturer lobbyists, and then blocking gun control legislation. The people selling fear and propaganda on right wing radio and TV. Those are the people who need their minds changed.
Ugh, it’s nauseating, all of it. It’s the same sickness that keeps affordable health care out of the hands of American citizens, keeps Coca-Cola cheaper than water, and then lets the public water system get polluted with lead as a “cost saving measure”. The same sickness that makes McDonalds burgers cheaper than buying raw ingredients in bulk, and then refuses a minimum wage that allows anything but the absolute minimum food budget. The same sickness that fills the gulf coast with tar and fills the Sierra Nevada with burning methane, but prevents even a discussion on climate damage. All the same vileness, gnawing at the root of world and wilting it with its poison. One more Jormungandr, one more pending Ragnarok.
I’m no pessimist, but it’s really grim these days.
@Alto
This was not the time for my nonsense. I was adding to the inevitable pile on. I was insensitive. I shoulda known better. I do know better. Sorry
While I’m here, does anyone know what ‘virtue signaling’ is? I’ve seen it floating around in discussions about the shooting and the other terrible things this weekend. It sounds kinda social justicey, but I’ve only ever seen it used by very much not social justice types. Tried a very limited search and found basically nothing. I don’t have the strength in me to risk finding the dismissive, asshole, gotcha! definition on urban dictionary or r/whatever. Thanks in advance
You know, I’m almost 61 years old. And sometimes when I see two men or two women kissing it makes me uncomfortable. But you know what? That’s my problem. It’s not a reason to kill people. It’s not a reason to post nasty stuff. My religion tells me to love others. It doesn’t make exceptions for gays, or Muslims, or anyone different than me. And while I’m not perfect, I try. Which is all any of us can do.