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Slut Theory 101: Red Pillers remain baffled by women who actually enjoy sex

Nothing to be ashamed of
Nothing to be ashamed of

Over on The Red Pill subreddit, the Red Pillock who calls himself 1Ronin11A comes so close to asking the question that could shake his Red Pill world to its foundations. That question is: Why do we Red Pillers hate and fear the women we have (or at least want to have) sex with?

Instead, he decides to ponder what he calls “the supposed contradiction that results from our simultaneous disdain for sluts but willingness to still have sex with them,” which he declares is not really a contradiction after all, because, well, they’re sluts, duh! 

“We Don’t Hate Sluts; We Just Recognize Their Low Value,” he declares in the title of his thousand-word post, apparently forgetting that “disdain” is in fact a synonym for “hate.”

So let’s break down his stupid argument, shall we?

As 1Ronin11A sees it, the essential problem with sluts is that they don’t understand the basics of sex economics — pussyconomics, if you will. Instead of hoarding their sexual assets like Scrooge McDuck hoards gold, thus increasing their value, these women just give sex away!

Sluts aren’t just women with “too many sexual partners,” 1Ronin11A declares.

What really makes a slut so despised is their disregard for their own inherent value, and the fact that they give it away so freely.

Women are the gatekeepers of sex, something inherently valuable to men. Men have built and destroyed great empires and many lives in pursuit of the sexual pleasures of beautiful women. We assign (often foolishly) great value to sex. We view it as something worthy of conquest, of effort, and acknowledge that women have the right to withhold it for only the men that have proved themselves as deserving of it. 

Well, at least he’s acknowledging a woman’s right to say no, a concept a lot of Red Pillers have a great deal of trouble with.

Instead, a slut gives that value freely to many different men based on fickle “feelz” and fleeting emotions. In doing so, her sex becomes less valuable because it’s given so freely.

While women are the gatekeepers of sex, Ronin11A goes on to argue (or, rather, assert), men are the gatekeepers of commitment, which is

the one thing men have control of. This makes the White Knight, the FriendZoned, the Nice Guy, the male equivalent of the slut. Why? Because … the White Knight/Nice Guy offers all of the commitment, without making the woman prove herself first as a quality woman. In doing so, he reveals that his commitment is of little value since, surprise, it’s given so freely to any woman that walks by. …

Unsurprisingly, women get very upset by the manner in which men treat sluts while remaining oblivious to the fact they treat White Knights/Nice Guys with the same disregard and disdain.

I haven’t run across a lot of women who disdain men because they have too many female friends. When women complain about “nice guys” — as 1Ronin11A would know if he paid attention to what women actually say when the topic comes up — it’s generally because these alleged “nice guys” expect to be rewarded with sex for their alleged niceness.

“As men, we don’t hate sluts,” 1Ronin11A reiterates,

we simply recognize their offering as low-quality and low value, and unworthy of commitment. We use them for the easy sex that they are, just as women use the Nice Guys as emotional tampons and ATMs for free drinks.

The irony is women understand this, even if it’s on a subconscious, almost biological level. It’s why they never date the Nice Guys until their physical currency begins to wane. It’s why they get so upset when they’re pumped and dumped or called sluts, as they recognize they’re being accurately identified as being disposable and of low value to high-quality men.

1Ronin11A’s argument is an old one, and one that only makes sense if you buy into his basic premise — that sex is a thing that belongs to women, and that commitment is a thing that belongs to men.

If, instead, you see sex as activity that women, or at least a substantial portion of them, actually enjoy, the entire ideological edifice of Red Pillism falls apart. The women that Red Pillers call sluts have sex with the guys they have sex with not because they’re sexual discount outlets, but rather because they want to have sex with these guys, and these guys want to have sex with them.

That sounds like a win-win situation to me, not some kind of terrifying vagina market collapse.

It’s amazing how much more sense the world makes when you assume that women are human beings.

But that’s one fact that Red Pillers can never admit. At its essence, Red Pill ideology is all about denying the basic humanity of women in an attempt to keep them shamed and subservient. That’s why Red Pillers get so worked up about feminist attempts to get rid of the stigma attached to the word “slut.”

As if on cue, 1Ronin11A ends his excursion into Slut Theory by ranting against the slut walks of recent years, which he describes as

the social equivalent of unions, essentially trying to lower the standards bar while raising the asking price simultaneously. If the value of slutty women is artificially raised, girls won’t have to try so hard to be feminine, charming, actually got to the gym to maintain an attractive figure.

“Artificially” raising the “asking price” of “slutty women?” Uh oh!

Red Pillers may not-so-secretly hate the “sluts” who are willing to have sex with them, but they’re absolutely livid about the “sluts” who won’t.

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calmdown
calmdown
4 years ago
Viscaria
Viscaria
4 years ago

@numerobis, to be clear, I don’t actually have any issue with CPP or with QPIP. I was just being funny.

ej
ej
4 years ago

I know I’ve shared this before, but I’m going to share it again because it’s still important.

(Content warning for NSFW language)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucO4ijwOUN8

[T]he word “slut” can be plastered onto anyone who has sex outside of what the person using the word deems appropriate or acceptable. So, basically, when you call someone a “slut,” all you’re really saying is, “I don’t like the way you have sex.” Which is interesting, because, most likely, if you’re using that word against me, you actually don’t know anything about the reality of my sex life.

It all comes down to the fact that red pillers don’t like that women have sex on their own terms and that often means not having sex with men like them. Rather than admit that women don’t want to have sex with them because of their repulsive personalities, they try to shame women for their sexuality. Women are called “sluts” for sleeping with men and for not sleeping with men.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/bb2681826492e43cd264d71306b573ad/tumblr_mmce5xJlhM1qdlh1io1_400.gif

It’s a trap. We can’t win no matter what we do.
(But considering that the prize could be sex with a red piller, do we really want to win?)

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

pitshade | June 8, 2016 at 10:10 am
How do the cheeseburgers tie into this again?

Well, I’m a slut, and I had cheeseburgers for lunch just now. (With a fried egg on top!)

As for the OP: “We don’t hate you, we just think you’re worthless if you don’t exclusively have sex with one guy, and we hate you if that one guy isn’t me.”

I gotta agree with others in the thread here: Someone’s salty that we’re ushering in an age of sexual freedom for peeps of all genders, and he still ain’t gettin’ any.

I mean, I self-identify as a slut and I still wouldn’t fuck one of these dudes. Because one can be a slut and can still have self-respect. Shocking, I know.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants | June 8, 2016 at 11:42 am
Guys like this are salty because they believe attractive women are handing out sex left and right, like candy from a parade float, and they’re still not getting any. So they want sex to be strictly controlled and rare, and go back to the days of the rigorously enforced double standard, because then they’d still not be getting any but at least they’d feel less bad about it, and that’s the important thing here. Not women’s sexual agency.

C’mon, Buttercup, you know they didn’t think that far ahead.

They obviously assumed they’d go back to a time where men were promised young girls by the girls’ fathers!

And obviously they’re such a catch, what with them sitting around kvetching about women on the internet all day, that fathers looking to marry off their daughters would be lining up around the block to beg for these ALPHUA MAYUNLY MEN to take their HB10 daughters’ hand in marriage. They’d be begging for a TRPer to take their HB10 daughters off of their hands (because feeemales are awful little leeches on the lives of men).

I mean, who needs a stable job, money, social status, or the slightest bit of social grace when you have the title of ALPHUA MAYUNLY MAN and a comment history on /r/TRP?

They’d totes take care of their little house-frau/sex slave/incubator/child care worker/sammich-maker wife with their upvotes. [/heavy sarcasm]

Ah, to be so nostalgic for a time period that I never experienced, and to pine for a fundamental misunderstanding how things worked back then.

Axecalibur
Axecalibur
4 years ago

We use them for the easy sex that they are

Not, ‘that they offer’, mind. Women are sex, apparently. That one made me all scowly

WE, WE, WE, WE, WE…

Keep me out ya mouth, asshole. I haven’t conquered or destroyed a damn thing. Sex isn’t inherently valuable to everyone. I don’t need a litter of strapping yungins to help run the farm in 2016. I can take care of myself, thanks *innuendo wink*

girls won’t have to try so hard to be feminine, charming, actually got to the gym to maintain an attractive figure

If they have to try so hard, maybe it ain’t for them. Maybe they’re just not about that femininity life. Maybe charm ain’t the strong suit. Maybe they just ain’t “attractive” [citation needed on what the fuck that means]. Maybe that’s all perfectly OK. Maybe women can be however they like and don’t need your bullshit
But hey, what do I know, I’m just a mangina, cuck, etc, etc

pitshade
pitshade
4 years ago

@ Paradoxical Intention – Resident Cheeseburger Slut

Well, I’m a slut, and I had cheeseburgers for lunch just now. (With a fried egg on top!)

I posted at 11:10 AM my time and lunch was not coming fast enough. I went with a Philly though, with jalapenos. mmm

History Nerd
History Nerd
4 years ago

I think some of the appeal of Red Pillism is that it denies humanity to women and that justifies shaming them and makes it easier for some guys to cope with romantic rejection. Rejection is painful for everyone, but many men have a privileged attitude that anyone who causes them emotional pain deserves to be punished (plus zero emotional coping skills).

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
4 years ago
Bina
4 years ago

Damn, all this talk of cheeseburgers is making me hungry. I guess I’m just an unfeminine slut…who should go eat some supper.

pitshade
pitshade
4 years ago

Greasy hamburger buns… I just can’t. urk.

Banananana dakry
Banananana dakry
4 years ago

Mmm, grease. Yeah, I don’t eat healthy. What?

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
4 years ago

Pretty sure those buns are just shiny for being, like, pretzel-rolls or something! Not shiny from grease.

pitshade
pitshade
4 years ago

A local fast food chain, Hardee’s, has them and they are pretty greasy. Yeah, maybe not the high quality example but just seeing the sheen is a big nope for me.

Tara the Antisocial Social Worker
Tara the Antisocial Social Worker
4 years ago

If a red piller (or any other guy) can’t imagine a woman actually enjoying sex with him, that’s really the only information a woman needs about him.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
4 years ago

@calmdown

I think what they really enjoy is the feeling of domination more than just the physical sex act.

You know, my favorite thing about RP field reports is how they’ll spend 3000 words painstakingly describing the tiniest little interaction, and what the woman was thinking, and what everyone was drinking, and how much they can bench, and how tall every Chad in the vicinity was, and every single move in the complicated chess game of ordering appetizers at Olive Garden. Then he gets his date home, and there’s more wordy word salad about amused mastery and how he wordily held frame against her roommates and overcame her LMR. Finally the story gets to the sex scene, and………

………..it’s a single, vague sentence. WORST EROTIC FANFIC EVER.

After a demure little fast-forward to the next morning (where invariably she’s cooking him bacon naked, because…wait, who actually does that?), we’re back to thousands of words about how awesome and effective RedPill is.

So. Either the sex part didn’t happen and they know better than to try to lie their way through it, or they genuinely don’t enjoy sex and it’s not that interesting to them. Not nearly as interesting as the part about degrading and conquering women.

Women who like sex really baffle them. They can’t conceive of any type of sex that makes both parties happy and doesn’t diminish the woman. If she isn’t feeling sufficiently bad about herself, then her vagina must be depreciating.

Axecalibur
Axecalibur
4 years ago

@Buttercup
I write, and never publish, erofic in my spare time. Yeah, the actual sex scenes are pretty difficult. Too much detail and it’s a Prima Guide walkthrough, too little and it’s a rushed action montage of disappointment. It’s OK, Pillians, I sympathize
Difference is, my terrible prose about a genderflipped Han and Leia is all imaginary, narrative, future fantasy. I make it up as I go. If you got laid, AND it was pleasant enough (for you at least) to brag about, AND it was a just couple of days ago, AND you’re already expending a few hundred/thousand words on your ‘conquest’, then give up the deets, bro. Open up a thesaurus and go to town
That’s an awful lot of ‘ifs’ tho…
I’m already cringe reading your sexist claptrap, the least you can do is paint me a fuckin picture (puns). I’ve only seen a few (disturbing as all hell) snippets from the Bang books, but I wonder how anyone could think, ‘Yeah, that shit’s hot. How can I get in on some of that awkward rutting?’

Carol
Carol
4 years ago

This called to mind Richard Feynman’s reference to “worthless bitches” – basically “sluts” only interested in getting you to buy them drinks in return for the possibility of sex. And “worse than a whore” if they didn’t follow through.

Chiomara
Chiomara
4 years ago

It never made sense for me. If you want something and this person is giving you this something easily and with great pleasure, shouldnt you be happy? If a woman has much experience, knows exactly what do do, and likes to do it, shouldnt she have more value than someone who has little to no idea of what they are doing?

It’s even rapey, they necessarily want sex with someone who doesn’t want it, or like it, or know how to do it. I don’t understand society.

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

Scildfreja | June 8, 2016 at 5:53 pm
Egg slut cheeseburger:

http://media.tumblr.com/f493270dc431d977ea1ef1146fe8c143/tumblr_inline_mgfacuk12A1qjcpcb.gif

Chiomara | June 8, 2016 at 8:48 pm
It never made sense for me. If you want something and this person is giving you this something easily and with great pleasure, shouldnt you be happy? If a woman has much experience, knows exactly what do do, and likes to do it, shouldnt she have more value than someone who has little to no idea of what they are doing?

It’s even rapey, they necessarily want sex with someone who doesn’t want it, or like it, or know how to do it. I don’t understand society.

Well, that’s just it isn’t it?

They want a girl who’s never touched a penis, but they want her to be a porn star in the bedroom.

They want a girl who has never been “owned” by another man, but they expect her to have all the experience of all the porn they consume (but she can’t watch, or gods forbid, enjoy porn, that’s just a sign of sluttiness).

They want a girl who might be disgusted by sex, so they can be turned on that they’re making a woman uncomfortable. Because then they can feel like they’re “getting back” at all the women who have ever rejected them in their lives.

But at the same time, they demand that their “unspoilt”, “untouched”, “UNOWNED” woman perform sexually for them like she isn’t.

Of course, asking them to do anything besides furiously hump at your various orifices (and refuse to go down on you*) is misandry.

*I found a saying on tumblr that really nicely sums up about how I feel about guys who won’t go down: “Elevators that don’t go down aren’t really worth riding.”

Tessa
Tessa
4 years ago

Men have built and destroyed great empires and many lives in pursuit of the sexual pleasures of beautiful women.

OK, I’m not a history buff, but pleeease, what empires were built on the pursuit of sexual pleasures of beautiful women? And what empires were destroyed? The only thing I can think of is the whole Trojan war thingie, but that’s largely mythology unless Helen was the daughter of a god… As far as I know, wars historically have been built on more than dudes trying to impress or attract women.

calmdown
calmdown
4 years ago

[TW: Roosh V Having Rapey Sex]

@Axecaliber

I’ve only seen a few (disturbing as all hell) snippets from the Bang books, but I wonder how anyone could think, ‘Yeah, that shit’s hot. How can I get in on some of that awkward rutting?’

You know when I wrote my post about this being a domination thing for these guys (not the kind you agree too before hand) I was specifically thinking of the passage I read here were Rush was having sex with the girl and was close to finishing, but she wanted to change positions, but he was like OFMWTF NOOOOOOAGHGRGHRGHGHKL HOW DARE YOU I WILL FINISH NOW JUST TO SPITE YOU!!

“She tried to squirm away while I was laying down my strokes so I had to use some muscle to prevent her from escaping.”

And then he gave her a lecture about how selfish she was for she calling “an audible so late in the game.” He was getting pleasant, consensual sex (according to him) and yet it seemed he was most proud of how he bossed her around and DENIED her what she asked for, and even used physical force, because how dare she ask for anything in bed! It was not only very very UN-erotic, but also just….rapey and horrible.

Original article Article here

Kylo Ronin
Kylo Ronin
4 years ago

God. Damn. It.

I would like to make it clear that I don’t share this ronin’s views despite our having similar sounding names. I have no issue with women having multiple partners because it is none of my damn business. Honestly, I obsess over more important stuff that could change the world as we know it!

For example I obsess over why Godzilla vs. Biollante doesn’t get enough love. Jesus, like it’s one of the most underrated entries in the franchise.

Moocow
4 years ago

@Tessa

I’m pretty sure their only evidence is the “don’t date robots” PSA from Futurama.

msexceptiontotherule
msexceptiontotherule
4 years ago

Conquering empires, tower building, expanding your territory/kingdom, obtaining a key that opens ALL locks but a lock that opens to all kinds of keys is nothing special…the kind of ‘reward’ obtained when early on in levels…sounds rather game-like, no?

Never mind that a key which opens all the locks is likely going to be a rare thing, and oh yeah…SEX IS NOT A PRIZE YOU WIN BECAUSE YOU PLAY THE GAME.

PS sorry for yelling

Florkje
Florkje
4 years ago

I think some of the appeal of Red Pillism is that it denies humanity to women and that justifies shaming them and makes it easier for some guys to cope with romantic rejection. Rejection is painful for everyone, but many men have a privileged attitude that anyone who causes them emotional pain deserves to be punished (plus zero emotional coping skills).

Thiiiiis. I think so many of TERP-writing boils down to: “Here’s a theory I have cobbled together to explain away the pain in my heart and ego caused by rejection.”

Florkje
Florkje
4 years ago

@Chiomara:

It never made sense for me. If you want something and this person is giving you this something easily and with great pleasure, shouldnt you be happy? If a woman has much experience, knows exactly what do do, and likes to do it, shouldnt she have more value than someone who has little to no idea of what they are doing?

Ah, but here’s the thing. Sex shouldn’t be given, it should be conquered. It’s a special prize for the best man.
How will you ever know if you’re indeed best if you’re just given the award before even partaking in the competition?

p.s. the competition is between you and other men. Homosocial approval is what drives these guys, not sexual desire.

occasional reader
occasional reader
4 years ago

> Bina

In fact, “despise” is even stronger than “hate”.

I agree on that. I find disdain worse than hate.
Hate basically just mean you do not like someone (strongly). But you can hate and still acknowledge the value of the person, like when you hate the person because the person has qualities you do not have and you would like to have (envy).
With disdain, you just belittle the person.
Well, in their case, it is often a mix between disdain and hate, so…

Tessa
Tessa
4 years ago

Florkje:

Ah, but here’s the thing. Sex shouldn’t be given, it should be conquered. It’s a special prize for the best man.
How will you ever know if you’re indeed best if you’re just given the award before even partaking in the competition?

p.s. the competition is between you and other men. Homosocial approval is what drives these guys, not sexual desire.

I agree a huge aspect of it is for the approval of other guys, but in addition to that, there’s the “conquest” itself. Since it’s a game, in the individual conquest sense, when they get sex, they win. And since they win, the woman loses. This is why I think it’s impossible for someone to follow the whole “game” thing and not end up hating women. Every time they have sex, they defeat the woman. She lost. She’s a loser. They’re not going to respect a bunch of losers.

On the flip side, this is why the idea that a woman wants sex too, and *gasp* the guy is also giving her sex is so repellent. If the woman is getting sex from the man, that would mean he was being defeated! He is the loser… Can’t have that.

Florkje
Florkje
4 years ago

I agree a huge aspect of it is for the approval of other guys, but in addition to that, there’s the “conquest” itself. Since it’s a game, in the individual conquest sense, when they get sex, they win. And since they win, the woman loses. This is why I think it’s impossible for someone to follow the whole “game” thing and not end up hating women. Every time they have sex, they defeat the woman. She lost. She’s a loser. They’re not going to respect a bunch of losers.

On the flip side, this is why the idea that a woman wants sex too, and *gasp* the guy is also giving her sex is so repellent. If the woman is getting sex from the man, that would mean he was being defeated! He is the loser… Can’t have that.

@ Tessa I was about to write a sputtering rebuttal of what you said, but actually it does make a lot of sense, [thinks more] but also not.

Let’s work towards a Unifying Conclusion (my fave one).

In this analogy a woman is

a) A prize
b) A prey

A hunter is not in competition with either of them, only with other hunters.

Here comes the philosophical question I don’t have a real answer to: Is the ‘conquered’ woman a loser or a prey? Because the feelings towards these two things are completely different.

Also, when the woman getting sex from the man means that SHE gets her way and thus defeats HIM, doesn’t that in a way mean that the prey has at the same time become an equal? Acknowledging that men and women might have a similar agenda? Because that would be anathema to the fundamental PUAMRA mindset…

All input & co-ponderings welcome 🙂

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
4 years ago

If you can open any lock, you’re not a master key, you’re a thief, and you should be in jail. People put locks on things for a reason. If you’re freely invited into someone’s vagina, then obviously there’s no lock there, and the analogy falls apart.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ buttercup

If you can open any lock, you’re not a master key, you’re a thief, and should be in jail

Some years back one of my friends locked herself out of her car at court. She actually put out a Tannoy saying that there was a tenner in it for anyone present who could get her in “no questions asked”. That of course was a consensual arrangement.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ florkje

All input & co-ponderings welcome

Much as I’m not a fan of hunting (unless it’s as a genuine food resource) most hunters at least pay lip service to ‘respecting’ their prey. That’s certainly not the case with MRAs.

I don’t think that even prize or trophy is an appropriate analogy. People value those.

The mindset that most tallies with that of MRAs and their seeing everything in terms of conquest is that they simply regard women as “the enemy” and they rejoice in their enemy’s defeat.

ETA: hence their paradox of simultaneously seeing women as useless imbeciles and wily manipulators. They need to justify themselves as superior to a contemptable enemy but also claim that the fight was so difficult they are true heroes.

Mish
Mish
4 years ago

@Axecalibur – yep, I totally have a (virtual) crush on you. I just love your comments so much 🙂

@Kylo Ronin – Godzilla vs Biollante: I KNOW, RIGHT?

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

Excellent, insightful comments. They shed light on some of my past interactions. I get clearer all the time about some things that went down. The truth may be painful, but it’s always a good thing.

@Carol
Richard Feynman? “Worthless bitches”? That amiable genius?

I had to look that up. And then I found out about how he bought a woman a sandwich and screamed at her when no sex was forthcoming.

And from what I can tell, he wasn’t embarrassed about putting it in his book! What a nasty piece of work.

Axecalibur
Axecalibur
4 years ago

@calmdown
When I was 15 or so, I think I woulda been the perfect target for pick up artistry. It’s got artistry in the title! And I (very awkwardly) liked girls. I really liked hugs… like really. Looking back it was just a little creepy. I never overstepped any bounds or anything, but it seems kinda pathetic in hindsight. But hey, I touched a girl! I thought sex was scented candles, George Michael, and 40 minutes (saw that number on TV once) of nebulous fondling. But like super awesome. And someone telling kid me that I could get some ass by following these few simple steps? Count me right in, cuz!
Then I woulda read that, and
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/animaljam/images/9/99/Nope-timon.gif
(PS, why the fuck am I sharing so much recently!?)

@Buttercup
*Bows before your majesty*

@Mish
Nobody’s ever said that to me, virtually or otherwise. Permanent grins and giggles <3

Bina
4 years ago

After a demure little fast-forward to the next morning (where invariably she’s cooking him bacon naked, because…wait, who actually does that?), we’re back to thousands of words about how awesome and effective RedPill is.

Well, as an anaphrodisiac (and very shitty but Religious Reich Approved birth control method), yeah — it’s flawless!

(And on the very off chance that I’d ever cook a guy bacon the next morning, just on the basis of how he performed the night before, I’d steal one of his shirts as an apron first, because spluttering grease is just nasty.)

*I found a saying on tumblr that really nicely sums up about how I feel about guys who won’t go down: “Elevators that don’t go down aren’t really worth riding.”

True dat. They won’t get you out of a skyscraper on fire, that’s for sure. Better take the stairs.

OK, I’m not a history buff, but pleeease, what empires were built on the pursuit of sexual pleasures of beautiful women? And what empires were destroyed? The only thing I can think of is the whole Trojan war thingie, but that’s largely mythology unless Helen was the daughter of a god… As far as I know, wars historically have been built on more than dudes trying to impress or attract women.

Well, Helen of Sparta was supposedly one of the illegitimate offspring of Zeus (as the pervy swan who raped Leda, knocking her up with twins), but yeah. Pure mythology. All the real empires of the world have been built on sheer greed and power-hunger, not sexual lust. Concubines were merely a fringe benefit.

Hate basically just mean you do not like someone (strongly). But you can hate and still acknowledge the value of the person, like when you hate the person because the person has qualities you do not have and you would like to have (envy).
With disdain, you just belittle the person.
Well, in their case, it is often a mix between disdain and hate, so…

Yuppers. I get the distinct impression that there IS an element of inadmissible envy here…because if these slutty, slutty women are getting sex way more often (and more satisfactorily) than Red Pillocks, that means that in some theory-wrecking way, those women are better than these men. And we all know how a Red Pillock can’t stand to be bested in anything, right?

Freemage
Freemage
4 years ago

Ouraboros13
June 8, 2016 at 1:50 pm

Right libertarians aren’t libertarians at all.

I understand this sentiment, but let’s be honest–it turns the term, “libertarians” from “a small but often politically influential group” into “unicorns”. (Ie, you almost never see a ‘true libertarian’ in the wild–it’s all the right-liberts.)

Bina
4 years ago

If you can open any lock, you’re not a master key, you’re a thief, and you should be in jail. People put locks on things for a reason. If you’re freely invited into someone’s vagina, then obviously there’s no lock there, and the analogy falls apart.

GenJones
GenJones
4 years ago

It occurs to me that guys like Roosh and PUA’s who prey on women and use the argument that they should anticipate rape if they are not responsible enough for their own safety are actually quite vulnerable themselves and playing the odds. It’s statistically only a matter of time before one of them “invites” himself into the home of a serial killer who eats his face. For all we know, their herd has already been thinned a little.

Whoa. It suddenly occurs to me how effortless it would be for a female serial killer to secure and isolate their victims. Men are not particularly careful and will rush into unknown situations without a thought if the possibility of sex is in sight. They would be easier pickings than children.

(Note: Not a cannibal serial killer, just a writer. I think about scenarios a lot.)

ej
ej
4 years ago

A hunter is not in competition with either of them, only with other hunters.

Here comes the philosophical question I don’t have a real answer to: Is the ‘conquered’ woman a loser or a prey? Because the feelings towards these two things are completely different.

If we accept that sex is a competition, someone wins and someone loses. The problem is that these men don’t necessarily see the “losers” or “other hunters.” They don’t see the woman turning down every other man in the bar. The only other person they see in this interaction is the woman. So, logically, if he “wins” by having sex with her, she has to lose. She becomes prey that he gets to devour. It’s an accurate description of the situation, but it’s how he perceives it.

If he does factor in the other men (maybe he saw the woman turn down a drink from someone else), she becomes a prize to be won. It’s a challenge. She’s obviously being selective, so if he can convince her to sleep with him, he’s done something that another man couldn’t. He wins, the other man loses, and the woman becomes a prize for him to use as he sees fit.

Neither of these are good positions for the women to be in. He sees the her as somehow lesser in both situations.

These are just my initial thoughts, so feel free to pick them apart.I think this is a really interesting discussion.

Freemage
Freemage
4 years ago

EJ: She’s not so much a ‘prize’ as a ‘score’, when it comes to the competition between the men. She’s a temporary acquisition, used to keep a tally. In Manuresphere philosophy, the prize is bragging rights; the guy with the most notches wins the competition. And scores are weighted (like the difference between a safety, a field goal and a touchdown)–a ‘slut’ counts less than a more unobtainable woman, precisely because the latter was harder to get. And, of course, the most valued score is the one who requires deception, or even better, actual force.

It’s literally all about the rape for them.

Joel (on twitter @deathtothefilth)
Joel (on twitter @deathtothefilth)
4 years ago

I really feel like these men just view women as points in a game. They’re basically pool balls that can be pocketed. So “slutty” women are pool balls that move around under thier own power or something? I don’t know, it’s really hard to get inside the head of these fucks without feeling ill.

History Nerd
History Nerd
4 years ago

Feynman’s semi-autobiographical works are a primary source for nerd misogyny, unfortunately. Honestly, majoring in STEM doesn’t make women uninterested in you, being an asshole does.

A “nerd” was originally a working class person who attended an Ivy League school beginning in the 1940’s when schools like Harvard began admitting people who weren’t wealthy. Nerds tended to care about their grades and didn’t fit in with upper class students culturally (there were also “hackers,” who focused less on grades and more on personal projects). All these classifications are somewhat obsolete now (like “gamer”) and nerds and geeks are not stigmatized by society.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
4 years ago

@Axecalibur: likewise!

These guys also way underestimate how much of a turnoff male promiscuity can be for many women. YMMV, but for some women being a player is a red flag that signals a lack of commitment, a lack of respect, an inclination to treat women as disposable, and an inability to get repeat customers (probably for a very good reason). In general, conservative, inexperienced women aren’t looking for guys who have had 100 partners (sometimes multiple at once) and who hang out in nightclubs looking for their next notch. Guys like that just aren’t relationship material. It’s OK not to be relationship material, but RPers and PUAs have to be honest with themselves about the type of partners their behavior attracts.

You would think promiscuous guys would be talking up the virtues of promiscuous women, in the same way that fishermen exaggerate how big the fish was, because frankly, calling women trash and used gum and dumpsters but then sleeping with them anyway doesn’t reflect well on their judgment or their super alpha game:

“I found a discarded cookie in a mud puddle. It was half eaten, gross, and crawling with ants, but I ate it anyway! Now award me some Boss Points.”

It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to simultaneously despise something and have it raise your Market Value.

Matt
Matt
4 years ago

Buttercup:
Then he gets his date home, and there’s more wordy word salad about amused mastery and how he wordily held frame against her roommates and overcame her LMR. Finally the story gets to the sex scene, and………

………..it’s a single, vague sentence. WORST EROTIC FANFIC EVER.

TBH, that does seem to have managed to perfectly capture in prose what the experience was like for everyone who wasn’t the MRA: lots and lots of endless puffery and tedious pseudointellectual lip-flapping followed by a brief and disappointing performance…

ej
ej
4 years ago

@Freemage

She’s not so much a ‘prize’ as a ‘score’, when it comes to the competition between the men. She’s a temporary acquisition, used to keep a tally.

I agree that “score” may be a better description here, but not entirely. Sex is still viewed as the prize for winning the game. To keep going with this analogy, maybe it’s that the woman is like a medal that he won for a particular sport and he gets “bro-points” for having won more medals.

This whole concept is just so foreign to me because I don’t think of social interactions as competitions. It’s got to be exhausting to think like that. If someone always has to lose, you have to accept that sometimes it might be you and you’d spend so much time and effort trying to make sure that it isn’t. It’s not that all competition is bad (that’s why we have sports), it’s just that not everything has to be a competition. Sometimes everyone can win and it’s amazing when that happens!

Cupcakes 4 Hitler
Cupcakes 4 Hitler
4 years ago

I think these guys have a similar mind set to the Christian Patriarchists, for a man sex is dominance, and for a woman, sex is duty. A lot of them actually believe that the female orgasm is a myth sent by the devil, and men and only men are expected to enjoy sex. You take a look at a dysfunctional family like the Duggars, and see how this brainwashing has created not only Josh, serial sex offender, but young women, his sisters and wife included who make excuses for him.

If a woman has agency, she will not choose to be in a relationship, or even have a brief fling with an abuser. But their religion/cult creates exactly that. Women enjoy sex if they are happy and safe, not feeling they have to be on hand twenty four seven to drop their pants at their husband’s every whim. They actually consider it a ‘sin’ for a woman to refuse her husband sex, so rape is a corrective act, which they say is scriptural (it isn’t) much like the MRAs, they say spousal rape is impossible because marriage is consent.

Cupcakes 4 Hitler
Cupcakes 4 Hitler
4 years ago

Here is a link from No Longer Qivering..

Rape is natural and condoned by Jesus himself, apparently.

Axecalibur
Axecalibur
4 years ago

@Buttercup
Daww, quit encouraging me

But like who, man, woman, or otherwise, wants to hear, ‘Oh yeah. I’m fuckin everybody. All the time. I’m up to… something hundred or other. Lost track, lol. Matter fact, just this morning…’? Of course, YMMV. No shame in your game if that’s your jam. I just wouldn’t lead with that

As per SMV: If we learned anything from the most recent global economic collapse, it’s that you can get people to buy absolute turds if you’re crafty enough. We know it’s nonsense, but they spin it for the sycophants. If you’re not swimming in booty on the daily, it must be cos all the [slurs] are leeching of older rich dudes. I mean, Hugh Heffner exists. Incontrovertible proof! Misandry!!!
When you play the long con, you tend to whittle em down to only the most committed and desperate suckers. Or perhaps not so much sucking. Amirite tho, ladies?

*Writes, ‘I will not tell cunnilingus jokes’ 500x on blackboard*

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ cupcakes

we cannot make gravity disappear just because we dislike it

But isn’t gravity “just a theory”?