So Amanda Marcotte has a nice piece in Salon today on the adoration the world’s most repellant pickup artists feel towards Donald Trump:
Pickup artists like Daryush Valizadeh, who goes by the name “Roosh” … and James C. Weidmann, who goes by the ridiculous name Heartiste, absolutely adore Trump. In him, they see a kindred spirit, a man who believes women exist to be submissive and flattering and provide sex and have no value outside of that.
I shared some thoughts on the subject with her via email:
“Trump is, in many ways, their ideal alpha male, an arrogant, deliberately obnoxious asshole who treats women like shit but has a former model more than twenty years his junior as a wife,” Futrelle told me over email. “It doesn’t hurt that she’s Eastern European; PUAs like Roosh Valizadeh contend that American women are basically spoiled by too much feminism, and see Eastern European women, by contrast, as relatively unspoiled.”
Marcotte takes a look at some of the gushing tributes to Trump that Heartiste and Matt Forney have spilled on the internet, then peeks into the Red Pull subreddit, which, she writes,
is teeming with discussion threads positing that Trump is a role model and that the disrespect and abuse he dishes out to women is behavior to imitate.
“Donald Trump teaches us something very important. Never bow down when put on the spot in front of a women,” one poster’s headline declares. In it, the poster explains that the way Trump treated Megyn Kelly, i.e., being a dick to her, was how men generally should, uh, handle women.
“This is a vital lesson to all men. Never ever let the hottest girl in the room manipulate you and break your frame. Never give in,” the poster writes. (“Your frame” is pickup artist lingo for trying to project an aura of overconfidence and stubbornness, or mostly just about being a bully.) “Even if you make a mistake, NEVER apologize to a girl.”
Kelly is 45, a bit old to be “a girl.” Come to think of it, isn’t she way too old to be the “hottest girl in the room,” at least according to Red Pill dogma, which posits that women all “hit the wall” by age 30, if not earlier, and are shortly afterwards transformed into ancient crones fit only for cohabiting with cats?
And, wait a minute, isn’t Melania Trump 46? Why hasn’t alpha dog Trump traded her in for some 19-year-old Ukrainian hottie?
Could it be that the “the wall” isn’t really a thing. not even to the Red Pillers who talk about it all the time? Could “the wall” be little more than a revenge fantasy of Red Pillers who desperately want to believe that the young women who turn them down will someday face their comeuppance by suddenly contracting a case of the uglies?
Marcotte finds herself wondering something rather similar, suggesting at the end of her piece that perhaps
“pickup artistry” is not really about improving your game with the ladies, so much as it’s about giving men permission to belittle and bully women under the guise of becoming “alpha.”
That such men would love Trump, then, is no surprise. Trump is loud, orange, stupid, and ridiculous, but he is a bully, and to the pickup artist community, that’s what it takes to be a man.
Yep.
Yup. That’s why I’ve always been deeply uncomfortable with people who default to Paris Hilton, Kim K, Snooki, Lindsay Lohan, etc, when in need of a shorthand for “stupid and shallow”. It’s always young, conventionally attractive women, and that’s not a coincidence.
@Imaginary Petal
Women are damned if we do, damned if we don’t. If we’re conventionally attractive, we’re shallow whores who only want to date sexy guys and how dare we not want to please to boners of every single guy. If we’re not conventionally attractive, we’re ugly sasquatch hambeasts who either don’t want to or can’t please the boners of every single guy.
Redpillians…probably the only group where it wouldn’t be surprising to hear being said:
“Help! We’re being oppressed by the conventionally attractive and smart women! And we’re being oppressed by the not conventionally attractive smart women! And the ones who aren’t conventionally attractive or smart women! JUST HELP US!! PLEASE!! Unless you’re one of the ‘uggos’ …”
@Imaginary Petal & Aargle Bargle
Yes exactly, I couldn’t put my finger on the reason why I always wanted to give out to people who throw such venom at those women and it’s because it’s one of the big socially acceptable ways of putting down women. I hate those “in a world of Kardashians be a (insert the name of someone men deem acceptable for women to admire) posts, women can be whatever they please, and those posts and that hatred of those women is a subtle way of saying NO. No you can’t be what you want, you can’t be into makeup or fashion or whatever because if you are you’re vapid and a whore but if you’re not you’re plain, or a try hard or a fake nerd girl! Also it’s sad that intelligence in a woman = ugly, attractiveness = stupid, shallow. Paris Hilton is a very capable businesswoman who had to be marketed as “ditzy blonde”, because a woman that is conventionally attractive AND smart…oh no the men will feel threatened!
Sorry about the rant, it’s something that gets to me. I work in the cosmetics industry and a lot of men (and sadly quite a few women) assume I’m not in anyway capable/smart/interesting because I dye my hair and wear makeup and keep up with trends. Even some self proclaimed feminists have mocked me or been rude to me over it, it can be rather hurtful tbh.
Sorry…back on topic now! I hate the Donald.
I think the reality stars who become hate subjects are definitely a victim of misogyny, the misogyny of the media and male network execs who own them. We have no idea what these women have been through, all we see is what is portrayed on screen. Reality TV is not reality by any stretch, it is scripted and edited by these self same male voyeurs. When you see Linsey Lohan, Miley Cyrus and Britney Spears have a very public meltdown it is the symptoms of long term abuse by their ‘handlers’. Anna Nichol Smith was a great example of this happenning. I do think that MK Ultra is a little more than a tin foil hat conspiracy. Being famous is not what it’s cracked up to be. No one should be jealous of these girls, they should be helped.
Another point on the whole Kardashian/Hilton phenomenon–
Many of the dudes who loathe the Kardashians with the fire of a thousand suns also turn around and worship the ground that big-name female porn stars walk on. It seems to me that it is less about offense at the exhibitionism, and more about offense at the fact that these women have the audacity to do it themselves, rather than at the behest of another producer/brand/artist/whatev.
If Kim Kardashian or Paris Hilton had become famous for being Playboy bunnies I have a hunch that the furor against them would be a lot less. If Kim K. hadn’t released her sex video, but had instead had it stolen and leaked by hackers, I suspect that far fewer internetizens would claim to think she was gross and would instead be bragging about having seen and gotten off to it.
I do think that from a feminist standpoint, there’s plenty to criticize in these women’s respective self-made brands–but there’s (of course) a gigantic stonking difference between disapproval and deep-seated hatred.
On the topic, though–yeah, this supports that early viral Tweet which said Trump is basically what would happen if a comments section ran for office. Incoherent, ragey, and brimming with transparent racism and misogyny.
Quick OT question. Is it just me or is this possibly the funniest picture ever created?
http://i.imgur.com/4Pbbay4.jpg
Welcome back, David!
Yeah, a lot of the vitriol towards Paris Hilton, the Kardashians, and selfie culture is rooted in the belief that women shouldn’t get attention, and they shouldn’t get mass adoration or personal financial benefit if they’re conventionally beautiful. Part of it is resentment towards pedestalized women, part of it is the usual blah blah blah sexual marketplace driving up the “price” of HB10s and making them “inaccessible” to redpillers/PUAs (as if they ever were accessible), and part of it is fury over women being allowed into the public sphere on their own terms and reaping the benefits themselves. Kim Kardashian isn’t just a trophy wife. She equals or eclipses her husbands in the amount of media coverage she receives.
The more positive attention women get, the harder it becomes for regressives to push the notion that women are worthless.
One of the major mantras of PUAs philosophy is “you are the prize”. The idea is to make the target feel comparatively insecure and seek your approval. Donald Trump’s constant division of people into winners and losers is designed to do exactly the same thing. No one wants to be branded a loser. The theory is that it turns the other person into a supplicant who must work extra hard to earn Trump’s approval, which makes Trump look like more of an alpha winner, and so on. The same theory applies in sales – if your product sucks, flip the script so it’s the customer who sucks.
Trump loves being in a position to be the final judge of people’s worth, much like the PUAs who use a crude 1-10 rating system for women and mistakenly think this gives them some sort of power in social interactions. Just like Trump can fake-fire people on TV, PUAs can “next” women who probably were never all that into them anyway.
Frame might work for whipping up the authoritarian base, but it’s absolutely lousy for diplomacy and foreign policy. Can you imagine Trump trying his arrogant “I am the prize” schtick on other world leaders at a G7 summit?
re making people seek your approval–we really do seem to be prone to this. I heard this guy on This American Life years ago, and still remember the story:
http://www.menmymotherdated.com/excerpt4.html
I went to an all day David Icke talk yesterday, it was very interesting.
Trump is definitely not human. He has all the ‘virtues’ of a lizard person, aggression, lack of empathy, greed – at the least he could be described as a psychopath. That is why he has found favour with other trainee psychopaths, the PUAs, Anime Nazis etc who think he’s the new messiah. It’s funny they think he’s the one to save them from the Illuminati, he *is* the Illuminati.
@Cupcakes 4 Hitler
If you’re lucky, the edit window hasn’t closed for that comment yet.
In a world full of misogynistic Kardashian memes, be a guy who doesn’t pit women against each other for your oh-so-important approval.
@xthetenth, I’m pretty sure Mike Hisandry wasn’t literally suggesting that we be unfair to Donald Trump. Pierre-Paul’s idea of being “fair” involves massively downplaying Trump’s misogyny. I believe Mike was rejecting that notion of “fairness.” I reject it too.
@Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Huh. My mantra is, I am a brain surgeon. Sadly, I can’t get anyone to agree with me. And it seems as though there are pesky laws that regulate surgery.
I suppose that’s kind of like the plight of PUAs. No one will agree with their self-assessment. And sometimes — occasionally — the police will pursue an alleged PUA/rapist.
The brains behind pickup artists are just entrepreneurs who are creating situation to draw money from some poor saps. Nothing new there in my analysis…
But why keep giving attention to thesesl guys?
Surely the PUA’s are discredited by now?
@IP
I’m not going to edit that…
Whether you believe in the lizard people or not, you have to admit that he has a reptilian or demonic nature. Have you read a book by Jon Ronson called “the Psychopath test”? It’s not about lizard folk, but these people who get into arenas of influence by their selfishness, aggression and lack of empathy. Trump is one of them.
@Guest
OMG.
This reminded me of an experience I once had. I was on my way to my steady work for a client in a tall, sleek office building. That particular morning, a woman stood outside the building. She had information for me: “You are the problem with America.”
I was pretty shocked but managed to have a sense of humor about the situation. But on my way into the building, I started to feel weaker and weaker. Once I got into the empty elevator, I cried.
Then when I got into the office, I told a coworker about my experience. My coworker said, “Oh, she said the same thing to me the other day.” I immediately felt better.
I guess we humans really do want the approval of other human beings.
@C4H
I’ll go talk to my cat instead.
I’m still stung from the time my cousin’s 5 year old son walked around the room at a family gathering, passing judgment on who was cool and who was not. (Guess which camp I fell into?). I think it was based on “who is most likely to let me stuff my face with cookies” but still, it hurt.
@Kat – I know, they put way too much stock in “if I repeat something enough times, it will become true”.
It’s fine to train yourself to be more self-confident and to feel that you are inherently lovable and worthwhile, even if you get a rejection. That isn’t unique to the PUA community. Where PUAs go wrong is in treating relationships like Highlander: “There can be only one!”
Well, no. How about BOTH people are the prize?
Otherwise, it’s just another contradictory RP logic fail: “I am the prize, envy me. Because I am with this totally worthless loser!”
I really hope the country collectively dumps its beer on Donald Trump’s toupee*, come November. Don’t agree to let him into your apartment to pee, America. You’ll regret it.
(*Poor choices in headgear: another similarity between PUAs and Trump? Wasn’t Roosh wearing a wig at
Beerloothe Battle of Montreal?)@Cupcakes 4 Hitler
Read the comments policy. No armchair diagnosing, please. There’s plenty of reasons why Trump is unfit for office without resorting to dehumanizing concepts like “lizard people”.
…
Well this thread just took a serious turn for the crackpotty. And ableist. But mostly crackpotty.
o__O?
EDIT: Ninja’d on the ableism thing. It took me a few moments to realise I wasn’t hallucinating that bizarre-ass post.
Er… I’m not really comfortable calling that “incestuous,” just because she’s sitting close to him and has her hand on his chin. Different people have different personal space bubbles (I sound cheesy, but I don’t know how else to put it.) But what he’s said about his daughter before is just plain creepy.
Here’s what I dislike about Trump – one of the things, anyway. Even if he hasn’t been relatively racist or misogynist in the past (and that’s a big “if”), he keeps appealing to those regressive beliefs to get voters. He’s not the frank, speak-my-mind guy he claims to me, he’s cynical and manipulative.
I can’t wait to see the meltdown in November when Trump loses to a woman. A woman who’s had the nerve to live into her sixties, even!
@Cupcakes 4 Hitler,
Please, go read the comments policy. Then read it again. “Psychopath” isn’t a label we put on people here. Frankly, it’s not really a label that a reputable real psychologist puts on people, either. It’s a term in popular culture and the criminal justice system, and is not in mental health.
We don’t diagnose people remotely. We don’t need to, and it diminishes people with actual mental health concerns, who are generally very nice people and don’t deserve to be put in the same box as a horrible person like Trump.
(For some reason, “psychopath” and “sociopath” get under my skin more than most ableist terms do! Not entirely sure why. I guess it’s because they’re so vague, but we condemn the people who have been given the label so harshly. And yet they’re popular terms! “Psychopath” is almost the modern analogue to “boogeyman”, I guess!)
Because ignoring a problem does not make it go away.
They like him because of this stuff:
http://www.politicususa.com/2016/06/05/trump-threatens-throw-hillary-clinton-prison-wins-white-house.html
And prolly me, too, because when I was a kid, I used to go to the Pickwick Theater.
Dear PUAs,
Any reasonable woman of any age would prefer a kitty (or 10) to ANY of you.
And with good reasons…