Another HUGE VICTORY for Men’s Rights! Some guy on the internet told a woman that the term “mansplaining” is mean to men! And then he used the “c-word” a couple of times!
At first glance, this might not be seen as the HUGE VICTORY that it truly is, men’s rights-wise, but get this! The guy in question is the guy who made Minecraft! A VIDEO GAME that LOTS OF PEOPLE LIKE. Which makes his opinion on this subject really really super important, for some reason.
Naturally, the fellas who hang out in the Men’s Rights subreddit understand what a TRIUMPH this is for men’s rights. There are currently three posts on this WORLD HISTORIC EVENT in the subreddit’s top ten.
Over in KotakuInAction,the main GamerGate hangout on Reddit, the regulars are if anything even more AWAKE to this monumental achievement for all mankind. They’ve got FOUR posts on it in their top ten.
So let’s check out the Minecraft dude’s carefully reasoned argument, which he Tweeted out yesterday.
You can tell he’s totally right about this, and also quite BRAVE, because he got 3700 likes and retweets for it.
Persson went on to explain his PERFECT MANLOGIC in more detail.
Ha ha! Because this explainy thing that men do to women constantly but that women do to men pretty rarely is equivalent to calling car crashes “womendriving” because, ha ha, women can’t drive and are responsible for 90% of all car crashes no wait, that’s not even remotely true; the demographic group that is responsible for far more than their share of accidents is teenagers.
When one Twitterer suggested it might perhaps behoove him to listen to women on this issue, Persson quickly saw through this MISANDRIST OPPRESSION of men who want to talk pretty much constantly.
Actually, Mr. Persson, as I have learned from years of doing this blog, there is no possible way to shut up men who want to inform you at great length of their opinions about feminism and what women are doing wrong. You can ban them from your comments, sure, but some of them will keep trying to post comments for months if not years afterwards.
And certainly Mr. Persson felt no need to shut up. Instead, he kicked his MANLOGICAL STEM LOGIC up a notch by unleashing the ultimate tool in the MANLOGICAL STEM LOGICKING toolkit. I refer, of course, to the c-word.
Here he applied the MANLOGIC STEM LOGICKING directly:
But don’t worry, gals! He’s totally got your back! He’s an EQUALITYIST who’s all for equality between the genders and not for sexism at all!
Huh. Apparently being into “equal rights and against sexism” requires one to go around calling women the c-word, which is TOTALLY NOT SEXIST because sometimes men get called “dick” which is TOTALLY the equivalent of the c-word., I mean it’s not like the c-word is widely considered the worst possible insult in the English language or anything.
Luckily, we have a KotakiInAction commenter called DaedLizrad to Gatersplain to us why it’s totally ok to refer to women with that special word.
Why is calling a man dick acceptable but dropping the c-bomb(seriously your too cowardly to use the word outside a quote?) is so reprehensible?
Its likely to be because of gynocentrism, even if you feminists refuse to accept(or even entertain the possibility) that society cares more about women than men you cannot convince me that feminists, both female and male, don’t clearly value women more than men, that is why treatment of a woman in the same exact way as a man is considered more abusive, because you don’t care about men as much as women.
You sit there and defend a sexist word designed to shame men for speaking to women about any topic, it is only used to tell men to shut up, like it was being used to there against Notch.
You sit there using and excusing gendered slurs against men while clutching your pearls screaming “think of the women” to the same treatment aimed at women, you feminists are all gynocentric and you c*nts can f*ck right off with your double standards.
Meanwhile, fellow KiAer Saddex took a moment of his time to let us in on what “mainsplaining” ACTUALLY is:
The thing with mansplaining is that, just with religion, it’s an unfalsefiable hypothesis. There is really no way to prove that it’s actually a real thing. Sure, might be a couple of assholes out there, but isn’t that same with women as well? Are you sure that if a man, or woman talks condescending to you, that it must be because of your gender? What about your personality, or the actual context? Did you say something just before that would be considered stupid by other people?…
I am going to treat people who tries to convince me that mansplaining actually is real thing like I treat people who try to convince me that god is real. You can believe if you wish but I rely on proof, and the burden of proof lies on the believer. It’s so satisfying to know that these people act just like religious extremists, should be compared to those and that you can use very similar argumentation to debunk what they’re saying.
Yes, what better way to debunk those ladies who get mansplained constantly than telling them they’re irrational fanatics who are seeing things that aren’t there, and that they probably brought this totally imaginary thing on themselves anyway by being such, well, the c-word thing.
All in all, an outstanding victory for the forces of Men’s Rightness and Ethics in Guys Who Make Video Games Calling Women the C-word.
Pounded In the Butt by FrickleFrackle’s Book
Do you know how many MRAssholes come in here claiming we can’t tell them their “opinions” on women’s actual lived experienced are wrong because opinions supposedly can’t be wrong? Now, maybe that wasn’t what was going on between you and your ex, but from reading your “opinions” you’ve shared in here, I’m willing to bet that’s at least some of what was going on.
@ FrickleFrackle
As a serious answer, I’ve seen a number of authors say that they get advice and help from people of the same group as the characters they want to write about. Just try and be tactful about how you ask, I guess? Even without the onus of being asked to represent ones’ group, it’s not great to have a friend just drop a manuscript in your lap and ask for a review. Probably better to seek involvement at an earlier stage, anyway.
@ Fricklefrackle & pitshade
There was a sort of related thing with the TV series “Red Dwarf”.
Grant & Naylor showed the original scripts to Craig Charles to get his opinion as to whether the character of The Cat was racist. He said ‘no’ and, by the way, could he be Lister; and the rest is history.
@ Alan Robertshaw
In what way was the Cat character possibly racist or rather of what race might be stereotyped?
Mmm, thanks for feedback. I had this thought after seeing on Tumblr (of course!) say that fiction had to include gay characters to be well-written. It got picked up by wtfantisjws, a popular (and legit) SJ blog that defended the post’s content. I didn’t get involved in the drama, but it reeked of encouraging artists to push an agenda. In turn, this made me think about my own attitudes towards diverse media, and what it would be like if I tried to write it.
I’m not against including PoC roles in movies, regardless of whether or not a PoC actor is called for. As long as the actor is good for the part, I say cast that actor! John Boyega did a FANTASTIC job as Finn, and when I saw people months ago complaining about Finn awhile back, I just didn’t get it. He was a great cinnamon roll and a perfect everyman with a lot of genuine emotion in my opinion, what’s not to like?
However, I would be worried if I, say, had to include ONLY gay actors for gay characters? If I don’t do so, am I inherently being exclusionary even if the actor is perfect for the part? As an Aspie, I’d like to see more complex ND characters, but I wouldn’t necessarily push people to include them, and I certainly wouldn’t if the characters in question are meant to be relatable or deep but instead come off as stereotyping and shallow. I feel like I’m playing Devil’s advocate a bit, and I hope I’m not doing so, and I really hope my comments here can somehow prove insightful and engaging!
Is it an agenda to write about cishet white dudes? Why shouldn’t writers be encouraged to include more than just cishet white dudes in their works?
The difference here is that too many gay actors get denied roles that aren’t specifically written as gay (same goes for pretty much all non-“default” groups).
@Frickle
Paradoxy droppin the knowledge!
Also, not every minority character has to be THE minority character. Pouring every bit of Social Justice stuff you know into a character makes them not a character anymore. At that point, it’s just a narrative dissertation on women’s issues. I mean, if that’s what you wanna do, tread carefully and go for it. However…
A muslim character needn’t be the amalgamation of literally everything that happened since 2001. Sometimes a dude just likes dudes, ya know? It’s not fun when every black character is an ‘underprivileged, innercity youth’ who ‘got out’. Those characters are necessary, but don’t feel like you absolutely need to show your straight, white brethren what these poor, noble souls are going thru. Not your job in 2016
Hope that makes sense and that I understood what you were getting at. And BTW, “mooooostly het”: I chuckled 🙂
Again, thanks! And no, I wasn’t trying to imply that anyone’s existence was inherently political, and I’m really sorry if I did!
As for putting SJ stuff into characters, pretty much what Axe said. Oppressed folk exist outside of being oppressed, and if I only write minority characters to stand up against oppression, they aren’t really characters. Characters can just be gay or black or trans without going into real life issues and if that’s the only role of non-default characters, I would say that’s kind of dehumanizing in its own way. And I can totally believe in casting discrimination.
I have more to add but can’t find the right words right now. At this point I feel I’m just regurgitating other people’s points and getting a bit splainy so I’ll take a little while to process what everyone’s said before commenting on this thread again.
PS, it’s nice to know you chuckled at my lil attempt at humor, Axe!
@PI & weirwood & SFC
I legitimately do have problems writing things, it’s one of my many faults, in high school I had an English teacher my senior year whose class I, admittedly, nearly failed, because I legitimately had problems expressing myself in written work. We had a special participation based grade that she would hang various topics around her room, and she would allow us to go around the room and write differing view points for each one.
Now I live in a primarily republican state, however, I considered myself a Democrat at the time(now independent), and would often piss off the people with the written part, that is until I would vocally explain my point to the room, again written work is hard for me.
My intention is to apologize for everything, but truly I do agree with each of you. I realize it’s hard to read sincerity through text, and I am truly legitimately sorry. I didn’t mean to make anyone’s day as filled with stress as mine has been because of all this, i have IBS and several other related issues, and stuff like this really causes me to become legitimately sick.
Trust me I realize I’m imperfect, and I am deeply sorry for the troubles I may have caused you all, as I really didn’t intend for any of this to blow up like this.
@william
IBS sucks; I’m sorry you’re dealing with a flare-up. Rest well and take care of yourself.
Thanks a bunch kupo, that means a lot.
@FrickleFrackle:
Like Axecalibur and Paradox said, the existence and addition of characters who aren’t straight white cis men doesn’t need to be “political”; they’re just people who exist in the world. If your story isn’t involving or referencing sociopolitical struggles, then the addition of a character who is meant to represent them would probably just be out of place anyway.
Sometimes a character is just a character.
@William,
http://orig12.deviantart.net/b1ce/f/2013/006/0/0/fluttershy_skips_by_eeglfethr-d5qpka8.gif
Hello! Welcome. I see that you have weathered a bit of a storm on your arrival. The shoreline of this island is rocky and difficult to navigate. You seem to have made it to the beach, though.
If you stick around and put some effort into learning the things we talk about here, you will be embarking on a trip of self-discovery, so I do hope that you stick around. You can consider “Mansplaining” to be your first riddle – what is it that distinguishes mansplainin’ from plain old condescension? There is a difference between the two. Within that difference is a very precious treasure. I hope you find it. Feel free to ask for help if you get stuck! There are clues in the replies you have gotten so far.
Intent isn’t magic, but friendship is \o/
A hint from myself for it: The first rule of inquiry (in any field) is to ask yourself “Why do I think this is a good thing to bring up?” Then you throw out the first answer you get and ask “No, really, what is it about this situation that has caught my interest?”
(EJ, omg, I stutter sometimes too! Word fails are the worst!)
@FrickleFrackle, I would not override any of the advice given to you by others, it all sounds like great advice. But if anything, I would add that you shouldn’t hide from writing about experiences that aren’t yours – just make sure that you pass it through the eyes of someone who’s got some of that experience, and take their advice to heart. Writing about experiences that aren’t yours is an excellent way to learn – it’s right up there at the top of the Bloom’s taxonomy of learning. Very worthwhile.
Here’s something that I thought of last night in response to FrickleFrackle’s question and would like the opinion of the community on; because I think it is true but I also think that I am not the right person to say it.
It is an undeniable truth that Éowyn, daughter of Éomund, is a badly written female character. She exists only as a foil for the men around her, and to be a Deus Ex Machina used to pwn the Witch King. Her characterisation changes to fit the needs of the man she’s talking to at the time: from the demure helpless woman that Éomer needs to protect, to the heroic swordmaiden that Aragorn tells to get back into the kitchen, to the meek and submissive girl that falls for Faramir. I am going to take a wild guess that Professor Tolkien did not run the document past many female friends before publishing.
It is also an undeniable truth that shut your lying face, EJ, Éowyn was badass awesome. Pretty much every woman I’ve talked to about Tolkien adores her, and many of those who read Tolkien as a child had grown up identifying with Éowyn. Her story is probably the most interesting personal-growth story in Lord of the Rings, and there are legions of people (including myself) who will muster their spears if you even think of speaking badly of her.
(Naturally, I had a huge crush on her as a child, not helped by the fact that I identify with Faramir.)
In other words, your characterisation doesn’t need to be perfect. You can write a bad female character, and if she’s legitimately badass then people will forgive it and love her anyway. I realise that it’s extremely difficult to get out of the “if it’s not perfect I don’t want to do it at all” trap, but there you risk getting sucked into the equally pernicious issue of erasure.
@William:
That sounds unpleasant. My sympathies go out to you for that: stress is a worse thing than I think we realise, and our society is very bad at helping people deal with it.
I hope you stay around, either commenting or just reading. This is an extremely welcoming community if you’re respectful to people.
I’ll give you two pieces of advice: the first is that apologies are not nothing, but they aren’t that important either. What matters is to not make the mistake in future. Asking for forgiveness is less important than showing a desire not not fuck up again. You said some stupid stuff. We will not hold a grudge unless you keep saying stupid stuff. Move on. Talk about literature or music to us.
The second is that we do not cushion male egos here. People call me out when I fuck up, people call Alan out, people call David himself out. If you got called out then the correct response is to thank the person, accept it, and do not argue back until you’ve sat down and examined what they were saying. This can be hard for men who’ve spent their lives being used to the idea that women owe them ego-caressing; but as a feminist I do not want my ego caressed simply because I’m male, and I don’t believe that you do either.
You said some stuff. You got called out. Move on. What’s your favourite book? Video game? Do you have an opinion on FrickleFrackle’s question?
Men are condescending at times toward women. Women are condescending at times toward men. But there’s a significant differential in frequency and cause when it’s men being condescending toward women. “Mansplaining” merely names that differential by its perpetrators.
Also, if your opinions are ever in conflict with facts, that’s a sign that whatever you’re talking about is not a matter of opinion in the first place.
@FrickleFrackle
First, it’s “pushing an agenda” to exclude diversity in writing. It’s just an agenda we’re so accustomed to we often mistake it for being neutral.
Second, here’s a modest resource collection for writing diversity.
Third, before you ask other writers about how to write characters of their gender, race, orientation, whatever—which is a pretty big thing to ask—see if they can recommend positive examples of representation and diversity. And see if they know any criticism sites that take apart privileged people’s representation and diversity fails so you can also see what not to do.
Fourth, promote the hell out of any writers you get help from (but don’t try to use it as an incentive to get them to help you).
I have another suggestion – try reading some authors who are a part of the group of people you want to include in your writing and see how they write those characters.
I know it’s probably heresy to ever say a movie adaptation is superior to the source book, but when is comes to Eowyn, the movies do such a better job with her in my opinion.
@ kupo
Just been at a music festival on our beach (the imaginatively titled “Tunes in the Dunes”). Didn’t mind explaining to my friend’s teenage daughter who The Stranglers were, but Dizzee Rascal! Didn’t he have a record out last week or something?
What are they teaching kids in school these days?
I tell you guys are dragging the bar so fucking low that it gives me the freedom to use all their tricks against them.
Mansplain… I will womansplain to men how to be men all fucking day long at @masculinetopics.
Make me believe I need your sexual/visual approval before getting into ‘Cock Kingdom’ and I will pull out the VIP access card to ‘Cock Kingdom’ @puremoan.
Be a ‘fecetious’ asshole all day long on the campaign trail and it only gives me permission to screen grab it, explain it and make fun of EVERYTHING Trump says and does without impunity #vavoomcyclopedia
Trolls want to plant flamingos on my lawn? I will monetize the shit out of those flamingos. I did not invent professional victimhood, I got this idea from guys in MRA forums! You cannot help yourself? I will capture you as a NPC in my game!
Spend your time defending ‘white guy supremacy’ online and I will gladly make being a ‘female supremacist’ the cornerstone of my supervillain persona so I can fight you on a ‘level playing field’ 😛
Stupid alpha male blog tells me to be a KING and have a claim to fame? Well, it’s convenient because I invented the universe you live in you fuckwad. And I am ‘The most sexually satisfied woman in the world’. I can finally be myself and be profoundly threatening and terrifying!!!
The bar has been dragged so low it’s now at the bottom of the Marianna trench. And the Western culture hegemony is going down the toilet. Journalism has been dead for almost a year now. It is a unique time in history.
There is no reason for me to keep secret my work at World Domination MegaCorp. I can use my mind control technology to work for a better tomorrow, yesterday 🙂
Heck, things can’t get worse than they are right now. Men are actively working themselves out of relevance in society (by way of choosing to be a risk if not an outright liability in every sphere of society… and they do it for status and blow jobs which gets harder to justify every day).
An inversion of what we have now (17% male representation versus 80% female representation) is safer, but not egalitarian or sustainable.
@ pitshade
Sorry, just saw this. I think they were worried that there was a cool, but superficial and vain, black guy caricature. Funnily enough Danny John-Jules thought The Cat reminded him of his dad and wore his dad’s old zoot suit for the audition.
@ EJ
He, there’s probably more of a need for “Al-splaining” than mansplaining.