Famously lady hating garbage site Return of Kings has published another one of their helpful posts outlining simple ways that women can drive away the sort of guy who takes dating advice from, well, Return of Kings.
In the post, titled “30 Signs That An Eastern European Girl Isn’t Relationship Material,” regular RoK contributor Jean-Batave Poqueliche provides a handy guide to all sorts of things that RoK Red Pillers see as red flags.
I’ve adapted some of my favorites into my own list of 8 Ways Eastern European Women Can Send Roosh Fanboys Running for the Door. Happily, many of these suggestions should also work for non-Eastern European women as well.
Throw your clothes (and possibly your birth control) on the floor
Poqueliche warns his readers to avoid women who are messy.
If you go to hers and … you discover that she has clothes on the floor and everything is out of place, beware. She is careless and has probably the same behavior towards sex and protection.
Let’s just set aside the irony of seeing this statement on a site run by Roosh V, who, by his own admission, had unprotected sex with multiple women over the course of several years even though he thought there was a good chance he had HIV.
The good news here is that women can scare off a Roosh fanboy by simply throwing some dirty socks on the floor.
Buy a few condoms
Apparently Roosh and his fanboys are more terrified by women who are so loose that they own their own condoms than they are of having sex with a woman they barely know without condoms.
Have friends from other countries
This, according to Poqueliche, is a sign that a women “likes foreign culture, ergo she is partial to a foreign knob that is not designed to be static.”
Wait, penises can generate static electricity? I should have probably read the manual a little more carefully.
Tell your date you prefer poetry to firearms
Poqueliche warns men not to date any woman who’s
repulsed by the idea of violence, manliness, or weapons.
She does not understand that a man could fight for his family, enjoy masculine hobbies or knows how to shoot. She wants a progressive man that reads poetry and is not ashamed to cry.
Do bawdy limericks count?
Learn enough about pickup artistry to know when some dude is trying it on you
Poqueliche tells men to shun any woman who
calls you out for escalating, not by playfully delaying it but putting it in words in the “I know what you are doing” way.
Alternately, you could simply work “player” or “pickup artist” or “you’re one of those creepy jackasses who reads Roosh, aren’t you” into your conversation, as that is also a sign to them that YOU KNOW.
Show your bellybutton
As Poqueliche sees it, this is a big slutty tell, and “generally the mark of an especially childish and irresponsible girl.”
Weirdly, RoK’s graphics-master chose to illustrate Poqueliche’s discussion of this important topic with a picture of a woman baring her belly in such a way that … her bellybutton is not actually visible.
Which raises the question: Do RoK readers actually know what a bellybutton is? Is it possible that Roosh and his readership come from some far-away planet where they reproduce by, I dunno, laying eggs, or cell division, or publishing crappy eBooks?
Be older than 25
RoK readers regularly express deep disdain towards women who make it past the quarter-century mark without snagging a man, declaring them unfit for serious relationships. So you’ve got that going for you.
Unfortunately Roosh and his fanboys are still totally willing to “bang” spinsters in their late 20s and up. Sorry old gals! While they don’t want to marry you, Roosh’s fanboys will still pester you for sex, especially since, as Poqueliche sees it, you decrepit old hags are basically easy pickings with
usually a higher notch count and some kind of a despair for a cock that comes with a prospect of relationship.
Henri here feels a similar despair, though in his case he hungers not for sex but for tuna fish
Cut your hair short
If you’re unable to ward off Roosh’s fanboys using any of the tips above, you can always CUT YOUR HAIR, something so terrifying for Poqueliche that it conjures up images of French villagers shaving the heads of women suspected of being Nazi collaborators in the aftermath of D-day.
No, really. You can practically hear him shudder as he asks
Why would a man want to have sex with something that looks like an underfed woman that got sheared just after the locals found out she slept with the occupying army?
Short hair: apparently the most effective form of creep-repellent after pepper spray.
@ IP
I was late for my first Fight Club meeting so I missed the rules. I have to say though that Fight Club was brilliant and I highly recommend Fight Club.
@Alan
I think you heard that joke from me. :p
@ IP
http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-oscar-wilde-i-wish-i-had-said-that-whistler-you-will-oscar-you-will-james-mcneill-whistler-277730.jpg
Perfect!
re: The Unicow/Moosicorn
Developmental biologists did stuff like that. They still do, I think! (PZ, are you there PZ?) Take out a growth bud to see if it’s the important part of a developmental process, that sort of thing. Piles and piles of ethical review processes keep it from getting too out of hand these days, mind you.
unrelated to moosicorns, eeeeee I sort of made a breakthrough at work today. I hope everyone’s ready for learning computers! 😀
Totally unsurprising announcement: Jake is now banned.
I love the moosicorn!
Seconding SFHC’s calling out of the other jake, there’s even a cute little ‘i’m not sexist but,’ thrown in! Other Jake’s ‘logic’ is fully of fallacies and could be used to discredit literally any inventor or discover-er:
Of course, I would never make this argument because:
-Saying “well someone else would have discovered it later” is ridiculous and not even wrong.
-Bringing up their personal tragedies as a means of implying “well this is why they really are remembered”. This logical fallacy can fuck right off. It’s absurd how many times an awesome woman gets her personal life used against her because her critics have literally found nothing else to criticize.
-“I’m not X but,”
-concluding with “well s/he didn’t develop her full potential” as if that somehow undoes a person’s accomplishments.
Oh you just wish that people were scared, instead of making fun of how empty your threats are!
Jake, you are insecure and you feel powerless. These make you feel sad, so you attempt to deny them by pretending you’re somehow ‘above’ emotions. Of course, your denialism doesn’t actually do much to mitigate your emotions. As a result, you enjoy having (imaginary) power over others and that’s probably why you were so gleeful about watching someone getting abused. Your control over her makes you feel so good because you rarely ever feel like you have any sort of power over your own life. You attempt to try to upset people here, you try to scare us, for the same reason.
You and your MGTOW buddies do this all the time. It’s kind of why the MGTOW subreddit is entirely dedicated to posts about women and why women are terrible.
Also, I wanted to reply to Friendly Neighboorhood Dragon Arthur’s post which got buried in the discussion. And it’s actually related since it’s about power fantasies in video games:
So much of this! I was bored of ‘roided-out body builder’ before the first gears of war came out. I’m not a big buff musclecake, nor do I have the desire to be one. I sit down with a game like that and all I can feel is “this is what [gamecompany] thinks I want”.
It’s nice to see video games no longer doing blatant pandering and it’s nice to see that angry gamers who threaten the creativity of developers by suggesting that all video game protagonists should be straight white males, are not being listened to.
@ scildfreja
Congratulations!!!! 🙂
Although can we just clarify, that’s computers that help humans learn; not computers that can themselves learn right?
Because of there one thing I’ve learned from things like 2001, the Forbin Project, Terminator and War Games, the latter option never ends well.
We’re talking about how awesome unicorns are, right?
They’re pretty cool.
@jake,
Lol.
Okay, okay. Two things. First of all, you expect us to believe that you’re the focus of a viral video that’s gathered millions of views? That so conveniently shows the thing you’re threatening? And is trending from worldstarhiphop.com? Excuse me while I chortle.
Second thing. “I used to deal with people like you all the time”?
You came here, you insulted us, you threatened us when we didn’t take your insults, and we’re the ones “facebook thugging”? You came to our house and knocked our drinks on the carpet. We’re the ones dealing with you, @jake. Take your “facebook thugging” elsewhere.
And “facebook thugging” is such a ridiculous term I don’t think I’ll be using it again.
Points for creativity, jake! No points for anything else, but points for creativity!
Edit: Thanks David! He was getting sort of ridiculous.
@Alan, yes. And yes. 😀
As for computers-what-help-you-learn, that’s the focus of my lab’s work. I’ve sort of clicked on a way to represent knowledge that isn’t .. well, fake. Like how grades are fake – knowledge is not about answering a set of multiple choice questions, or saying the magic words in an essay. Knowledge is about the aggregation of concepts and the relationships between them. So, with luck: good bye exams, good bye report cards, good bye multiple choice and boring assignments!
As for computers-what-can-learn-things … hate to break it to you, but we’ve had basic computer learning since the 70’s. The movie War Games is basically the story of Eurisko and Doug Lenat.
(Okay, maybe I’m hyperbolizing a bit there, but Eurisko is some spooky mojo)
(Should I tell the story of Eurisko and Doug Lenat?)
@ scildfreja
Yes please; if you find time. Love finding out stuff.
@Scildfreja
I’m an adult and I wish I knew this. Do you have a link or book recommendation?
I can’t see mental hygiene without thinking of all those shorts that MST3K would sometimes feature, like Posture Pals and A Date With Your Family.
Okay! Pull up a chair and get ready for a spoooooky story
Doug Lenat was finishing doctorate work on something called AM, Automated Mathematician, back in the late 70’s. This was a computer program that was theoretically able to evaluate and derive all sorts of mathematical principles on its own. Clever stuff! After this was done, he started working on a postdoc (I think it was his postdoc at least) in a similar, related field.
A roleplaying/wargame had come out called Traveller, and in it players could design their own ships (with different sorts of guns, and hulls, and engines, and whatnot), and then would arrange their ships into fleets, and then fight one another. All very interesting, and growing in popularity. There was even a World Traveller Tournament, where anyone could register, build a fleet, and compete for a pot of (i think) five thousand dollars! Neat!
Doug Lenat decided that he would build a new program that would to all of it – design ships, build fleets of them, and then play them against human players. So he called the project Eurisko, and then set to work on designing and programming.
I won’t get into the details how how Eurisko works – it’s fascinating stuff, but it’s a little technical. If you want to know then tell me and I’ll write another reply just for that. Suffice it to say that Eurisko was clever. It wasn’t just a bunch of preprogrammed conditional statements. The program was capable of learning from its mistakes, and was creative in exploring new ideas. I believe that Lenat registered it in either the 1979 or 1980 tournament as the first trial run.
Eurisko was considered an amusing entry. They were all dorky wargamers so the idea of a computer player was very interesting, but they all laughed when they saw the fleet it had built. Eurisko had built what they universally considered to be a terrible fleet. Players typically built a couple of big ships, with defending screens of smaller ships. Eurisko had nothing but little ships with tiny guns. They thought it was a cute attempt by a program, and they gleefully waited to crush the upstart computer.
Which is why they were all stunned to find that Eurisko had obliterated them all, and handily won the first prize. Lenat put the winnings into his research and was told that he had to enter Eurisko again next year, to give them a chance to beat it.
Lenat went back to work on Eurisko and did a bunch more technical stuff that’s probably not worth mentioning. Suffice it to say that he didn’t spend the year idle. The human players, on the other hand, took apart what had happened and examined it in detail. They completely redesigned the ways that they approached the game, with some trying to replicate what Eurisko had accomplished while others tried to find ways to defeat the strategy. By the time the next tournament rolled around, the players had new tactics, new ships, and a burning ambition to beat Eurisko’s fleet of destroyer-tugboats.
Unfortunately, Eurisko no longer used the same strategy in the slightest. It came into the tournament with a completely different setup and approach, using little unmanned drones in unheard-of swarms, along with rock-hard motherships that could barely move. Once again, Eurisko crushed all opposition and handily won the grand prize.
The tournament announced that, if Eurisko won a third time, they would be closing the tournament down – what good is a tournament that’s dominated by a computer? Not wanting to spoil everyones’ fun, Lenat decided that he was done with Eurisko, and said he would no longer be entering the human-killer in the competition.
And here’s where it gets a little weird.
After this, Lenat falls off the radar for awhile. He’s published a few white papers, but nothing much. Details on how Eurisko actually works are spotty – I know that it uses a modular frame system, but I don’t have all of the specifics. And he refuses to share his code. Eurisko is gone, and no amount of argument will sway him.
And then after years, Lenat resurfaces as the head and owner of something called the OpenCyc project. Cyc is more in my field; it’s a massive semantic web library through which an inferencing system can infer things about the real world. If you get enough heuristics into such a semantic web, you can start making some startlingly deep statements about things.
Where’s Eurisko? What was Lenat doing all those years? And why did he jump from doing modular frame stuff to semantic web construction?
It’s enough to make one into a conspiracy theorist!
@kupo, nothing really specific. There are piles of self-help books out there that collect this sort of thing, but I find they’re either too full of wish-fulfillment or too much “positive energy” “law of attraction” stuff. Brings me back to wanting to write a book on rationality; it’s really the same thing. Basic ideas on mental hygiene are things like these; how to deal with stress, how to realize that your opinions are flaws (not listed in that link), how to identify stressors in your environment, how to identify when your thoughts are being dictated by emotional or environmental factors that are misleading you, etc, etc.
It’s a huge topic, and I’ve never found a great collection that actually condenses it all down. Any of those topics (or others) you were specifically looking at?
@pitshade,
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/2062337/mst3k-is-not-amused-o.gif
Addition: This is what Traveller looks like:
http://dicehaven.com/wp-content/uploads/Mcon_12.jpg
To help people visualize what Eurisko was doing, this is a frame it built to help it define its world:
http://aliciapatterson.org/sites/default/files/styles/node_image/public/Johnson02_0.jpg
My group back in the 80s never got around to playing Traveller , but rolling up characters was sort of a mini-game.
Also, I hadn’t thought much about MST3k since it went off the air, but the last couple of years some of those guys have been at Dragon Con. If anyone ever has the chance to see them, do it. They’re great just being themselves.
@pitshade, MST3K is getting a new season: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mst3k/bringbackmst3k
😀
I actually really agree that kids should learn “mental hygiene” as how-not-to-be-a-dick skills in school. Most schools seems to give up on teaching these skills after kindergarten. Sadly, a 10 minute short about how to fold your socks or whatever isn’t as effective as they seemed to think it would be in the 1950’s. However, they are hilarious:
http://media1.giphy.com/media/sGtFC5lSmyie4/giphy.gif
A Date With Your Family!
@ Scildfreja
A friend of mine pledged to the kickstarter. I can’t wait to see the goodies she gets.
Great discussion about trolling motivations and tactics!
I especially appreciated Scildfreja and Alan Robertshaw’s exchange about frames and also fear and envy of women.
I’ve observed those things both online and IRL.
I stumbled into a dim understanding of frames years ago when I discovered that the best way to shut down a guy’s unwanted attention was to talk to him but change the subject. My favorite strategy when a guy says I’m looking good is to say something like, “You’re the one who’s looking good. That’s a really nice shirt! Is it cotton?” They haven’t anticipated that remark and they’re stuck! I think that this would work only IRL, but I also think that you’ll only really need it IRL.
Oh, and this was interesting, Scildfreja:
Yes, I agree. I do something similar IRL but it’s pro-social (yay!). I consciously release a lot of my emotions — it doesn’t matter what they are — through laughing, which is such a physical thing that it must alter all sorts of hormones and chemicals and such. It’s really helpful when I’m scared or nervous.
@Scildfreja
Thanks for the link. I’ll take a look. What I have trouble with is managing stress. It’s better now that my Celiac is better controlled, but I basically have panic attacks over what seem like minor things. Even thinking about talking to people about interpersonal issues causes me to go into panic mode and my throat closes up if I actually try to talk. This is about 10 times worse if I feel like I don’t have any control over the situation. So basically anything that can help me calm myself when anxiety attacks hit would be wonderful. I’ve tried talking to therapists but their tricks don’t work for me (for example, visualizing myself in the woods will only postpone the panic attack).
@calmdown
I’m going to have to disagree with you on this one. Some important stuff got left out of my upbringing, so sometimes I’ll learn a lot from media.
I adore public service announcements because they’re so matter of fact about how to do this often challenging human experience.
And sometimes I learn a lot from TV. For example, on Ellen (Ellen Degeneres’s comedy show back in the 1980s), somebody’s disagreeable elderly aunt died. The niece felt bad that she didn’t miss her. Ellen said, “Sometimes someone in your family is awful. You love them but when they die, you don’t miss them.” I think that line of dialogue saved me a lot of money on therapy.
@kupo
I don’t know if it helps anything but, I relate to a lot of what you just described about anxiety, panic, and social situations. I’m still searching myself for something to effectively deal with panic attacks, so I know how hard those symptoms can be to manage.