Never let it be said that Men Going Their Own Way lack a sentimental side. Or that they’re the sort of oafish clods who forgot that today was Mother’s Day. Far from it!
Over on MGTOWHQ.com, one thoughtful fellow has opened a thread to honor mothers and motherhood. Well, sort of. In a thread titled “Happy Incubator Day,” the MGTOW who calls himself womanhater — you’ll see why in a second — has a message for the mothers of the world.
On this holiday of tw*t worship, I just wanted to point out to any potential tw*t lurkers who’ve excreted a f*ck trophy or five that men like me are the inevitable result of being raised by militant feminist mothers.
A lovely sentiment, and one that should be widely shared, although I suspect it would be a bit too long to fit on a greeting card.
My mother nor my sister nor the mother of my children will be getting gifts or phone calls from me today. Want your grown sons to give the slightest inkling of a f*ck about you once you’re too old and wrinkled for any attention from other men? Then you should think very carefully about whether you’re more loyal to your son or to the sisterhood – because we do not forgive or forget.
In your FACE, wrinkly old ladies!
A fellow called The Signal offers his support to womanhater, even though he personally hasn’t declared war on all the women in his life.
Dude, I’m genuinely sorry to read of your trials. My own upbringing was actually pretty ordinary and happy, but were I in shoes like yours, I’d be Fed Exing dead rodents and rusty razor blades today.
The Notorious GIT posts a YouTube video of a song called “I love watching you die,” declaring it to be the perfect “motherf**kin mood music for this motherf**kin day!”
He continues:
My mother is today, alone. Left by my father after she tried to trap him with a kid (me) and divorced by the man she succeeded in trapping with my sister. Said sister hasn’t spoken to her in years. I haven’t spoken to her in 14 years. Well, except when she found out where I worked and called, but only to tell her to go the bloody fuck ahead and try to come visit the pistol and shotgun armed combat veteran powerlifting 240 pound professional martial artist.
And if, after the inevitable violent incident, the police demand an explanation, he’ll tell them that
I teach kids here, and she has a history of violence, child abuse and substance abuse.
Notorious GIT’s notes that his mother might already be dead — he’s asked other family members not to tell him is she dies. But he prefers to imagine that she is still alive.
I like to envision her in a large empty house she’s mortgaged to the hilt to pay for, empty but for the detritus of her constant snacking and boxed wine binging. Perhaps a cat …
He imagines his mother Googling his name today
in futility over a box of tissues as I am outwardly cursed as a monster for doing this to her. But inwardly, in whatever deeply flawed logic center must be present in order that these animals may survive to post wall spinsterhood, I know she knows, and I know it must hurt, and it makes me smile a sneering, baleful smile.
Now, I don’t know the details of womanhater’s or Notorious GIT’s childhoods. They may well have been subjected to horrific abuse at the hands of their respective mothers, and however poisonous these men are today they obviously didn’t deserve whatever abuse they faced.
It’s perfectly understandable that these two men, if they did indeed face the “trials” that The Signal alludes to, would cut off all communication with their allegedly abusive mothers. And neither one owes his mother forgiveness; you’re allowed to hate those who abused you.
Mother’s Day and Father’s Day can be rough on those who had crappy or abusive parents. But it’s not healthy to blame an entire gender for actions of one woman.
My siblings and I were raised by an abusive mother AND father. Dear old dad was saying the exact things that come out of the mouths of those in the manosphere back in the 60s and 70s, and mom was an anti-feminist that was thrilled when the ERA was voted down.
Go figure.
What lovely young men. My parents were bad enough that moving out was the greatest day of my life, and I felt a bit of freedom at one’s death. I still never took joy in imagining them suffering alone in an empty house full of cats.
These sons grew up to be abusers *for sure*. Abusers believe that others can’t survive without them. They believe that they are victims of a cruel world. People tell you about themselves in their stories, the beliefs that these guys have about their moms are the beliefs of an abusive personality.
I’ve never been more pleased to see men avoid women. It’s so unusual for abuser’s to change. KEEP AVOIDING US BOYS. Yes, we’re so lonely, with our, uh, cats. Truly suffering.
I get the feeling that he is not as described and actually lives in his mum’s basement
I was raised by bigots in a culture full of it. I may have been ignorant, but I have never been invested by hate. So I cant understand it and I dont have patience with it.
I’ve known men with abusive mothers who manage quite excellently not to become misogynists. I think the key difference is that they manage to have emotionally healthy, nurturant relationships with someone, somehow, during their formative years.
The bitter, obsessive hatred of these truly furious misogynist men seems to me to be the product of one having a toxic relationship with his mother, yet she’s still the most reliable person in his life.
That’s a conversation I totally believe happened outside his imagination.
If it actually happened, that’s even more pathetic. “Do you even lift, MOM?”
I certainly didn’t have the happiest childhood and there are some things I still haven’t quite forgiven my mother for (though maybe I should). But I love her to pieces. My sister and I took her to Disneyland today – paid for her admission and for a wheelchair rental since she’s recovering from knee surgery. We had a lovely time. Lots of people were there with their mothers, wearing carnations because they were handing them out for free at the entrance. Disney characters often don’t have mothers, but they sure respect them!
Bina, if we take this man’s story at face value, he’s a ridiculous person who deserves all manner of mockery; mockery which he is receiving at the capable hands of the commentariat.
What is gained by accusing anonymous posters who may be abuse survivors of making it all up?
Abusive mothers don’t make men into misogynists, but by the Law of Large Numbers we can guess that there is a large number of misogynists out there who happened to have abusive mothers. It’s not an implausible claim. Challenging it it basically pointless if they were faking, and monstrous if they were telling the truth.
FWIW, it’s not Mother’s Day everywhere today:
http://resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/mothers/
Man, I yelled at my mother today when I told her I want to move out as soon as I’m done with college and live with my friend. She is paranoid because this friend offered to let me live with them, so they *must* actually be a sex trafficker.
I’ve known them for three years. We go out to eat and do a thing in Detroit a few times a year. They voluntarily give me more financial support than my parents are capable of, I’ve been surviving thanks to their generosity. I really love this person, they’re a good friend.
She threatened to pull my student loan she took out for me.
She somehow simultaneously underestimates me due to my disability and believes it can be overcome. Her desire to keep me in a small town with no illustration jobs, constantly hovering over me and treating me like a child even though I might be the MOST independent child she has because I’m the only one who lived away from home for an extended period of time, and then threatening to kill my dreams like that really hurt me. It made me cry.
She has said and done worse things to me.
Happy fucking mother’s day, mom. Personally, I don’t like this day either because I still have to deal with her shit.
And yet I’m still not a misogynist.
Oh hi, MGTOW’s reason for being.
My mom hasn’t been the perfect mom. She’s had shit taste in men, which has led to my own life being a bit hell. But I don’t blame her for the actions of the men she’s dated.
I don’t hate her for that, and while she has said/done some shitty things to me in the past, I’ve come to forgive her.
Hell, we’re going shopping tomorrow for my birthday (which was Mother’s Day in the US).
I did become a feminist partially because of the abuse I faced as a kid from my sperm donor “father” and my “step-father”, and while I’ve learned to be wary of men, I certainly don’t hate them.
If they want to cite abuse as the reason they hate all women, they’re just being pathetic, IMO.
Oh yay, nothing says “responsible adult worth trusting with children” like Internet braggadocio and gun-fondling. He probably spends his free time browsing the seventh graders in his ongoing search for a female who doesn’t know that his penis is humorous…
Oh, dear; is it ever possible to hate your own mother. Assuming the worst about all mothers on the other hand…
Contract? ／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼
Well, most MTGOWs do think all women are witches…
(Sorry, I just had to!)
I’m delurking to say that I’m another one raised by an abusive mother. I celebrated mothers day this year by calling my granny to wish her a happy mothers day, instead of posting vile comments about an entire group of women.
To the people who have English as a first language – is it just me or do you find these Mgtow’s prose really difficult to understand? I’m had to read each quote twice to even get a small idea what they were trying to say. To me it is like there are just too many words in a sentence o_o
@LG
“The bitter, obsessive hatred of these truly furious misogynist men seems to me to be the product of one having a toxic relationship with his mother, yet shes still the most reliable person in his life.”
More like the product of a toxic relationship with his mother on top of such a massive dose of entitlement that he thinks his victimhood excuses his bad behavior. I mean, his name is fucking womenhater; so it’s not like he’s innocently unaware that his beliefs are toxic. You can’t get more loud and proud of being a shitty asshole than calling yourself “womanhater”.
Wherever his entitlement complex came from, he didn’t receive it from abuse. Abuse actually does the opposite; it beats you down. Remember, its a myth that people behave badly because of their pain. Lundy Bancroft says it best; he’s not abusive because he’s angry, he’s angry because he’s abusive.
@authorialAlchemy
“They voluntarily give me more financial support than my parents are capable of, Ive been surviving thanks to their generosity. I really love this person, theyre a good friend.”
I have to admit that this paragraph raised my eyebrows, since I’ve found it rare for people to be this generous without strings being (unconsciously?) attached. So some advice from a bitter old feminist; being financially dependent on *anyone* is asking for trouble. Always have a plan b, since things don’t always work out, even with the best of intentions. 🙂
@Orion
“Abusive mothers don’t make men into misogynists, but by the Law of Large Numbers we can guess that there is a large number of misogynists out there who happened to have abusive mothers. It’s not an implausible claim. Challenging it it basically pointless if they were faking, and monstrous if they were telling the truth.”
^^^THIS.
Very well said.
Welp, I missed my window to edit out my swearing. I should have, it sounds like I was swearing at LG instead of emphasising what I was saying. 🙁
Sorry LG. I didn’t intend to swear at you. 🙁
As a native English speaker: It’s not just you, we can barely make heads or tails of it either.
It seems like everything they say can just be boiled down to one thing: “I hate women because of [Reason]*.”, and the rest is just purple prose of slurs and the gnashing of teeth.
*[Reason] being anything they deem it isn’t okay for women to do, whether we actually do it or not.
mrex –
Oh, swear at me all you like. Much more bothered by how you seem to be rather misconstruing where I’m coming from.
I think one of the most toxic, abusive things a parent can do to a son is instill patriarchal entitlement in him. So it’s not a question of, “Was he really abused, or is he an entitled misogynist?” That’s a false binary.
I’ve known enough misogynist mom-haters in my life (including my own father) to have seen what looks to me like a pretty solid pattern: Mr. Mom-Hater goes off on rants and tirades about how abusive his mom is without ever going into specifics, because what he’s really angry about is the fact that his perpetually servile, enabling patriarchal mom failed/is failing to understand him 100% perfectly and somehow keep him perpetually in a state of contentment.
But what he sees as “abusive” is her failure to do that, not the fact that she instilled/helped instill the idea in him that that’s what women are supposed to do in the first place.
Okay, so I haven’t always had the best relationship with my mother. I was a “difficult” child/teenager, and often when I acted out, she’d threaten to send me to the local mental hospital (calling it disparaging names). And she’d say other prejudiced things, and I’d say mean things, and we’d get into conflicts that caused us both unnecessary stress.
But now that she’s going through depression and is having a really tough time, I’m not going to say she deserves it. She certainly doesn’t. And I’m certainly not going to say all mothers are horrible evil people just because! (Though I’m going to use the word “certainly” a lot, apparently.)
On a lighter note, the phrase “fuck trophy” made me laugh. Like that’s how parents usually think of their children… “Hello, meet my son Tommy – or, should I say, LIVING EVIDENCE THAT I’VE HAD SEX!” Uh-huh.
@authorialAlchemy – That sounds upsetting. Your mom shouldn’t dismiss your plans and wishes like that, even if she is trying to be protective. I hope things will get better soon.
It reminds me a bit of last summer when a friend invited me to stay at his/his dad’s house while I was in another province for vacation (I was planning to record some music with him), but my parents didn’t like that. I’m grown up and everything, but they were afraid he’d be some sort of predator… or that we’d stop being platonic friends in each other’s proximity and have an exciting affair, just because. I dunno.
(The logical solution would’ve been to visit him but sleep somewhere else, but I didn’t have much money then and I ended up visiting a relative in a completely different city instead. Hopefully this summer things will work out.)
I’d take mrex’s words into account, too. Maybe you could see about a compromise – staying somewhere else at first, if that’s possible? Could your friend help you look for a different apartment there? Of course, I’m not you and I don’t know!
@LG
“Oh, swear at me all you like. Much more bothered by how you seem to be rather misconstruing where I’m coming from.”
The swearing was giving it a weird angry tone that wasn’t my intention. That’s basically what I was apologizing for. I wasn’t mad at you, I wasn’t trying to give you a shitty attitude. Sorry.
As for misconstruing where you were coming from… I wasn’t aware that I was. Even rereading your first post, it still sounds like apologism to me. But OK, that’s my reading of it, not what you wrote. Maybe if you explained it differently, I would understand? 🙂