Over on the technically still alive Men’s Rights hate site A Voice for Men, our old friend August Løvenskiolds deposits a piece of “political analysis” that is so completely contrary to fact and logic and basic historical understanding that we might call it a Wrongness Onion — no matter how many layers of wrongness you pull off of it, there are still more layers lurking underneath.
Also, it stinks, and might make you cry, though mostly out of embarrassment for Mr. Løvenskiolds, also known in these parts as McLøvenskiolds.
Near the beginning of a post titled “How will Nominee Trump pander to women?” but which in fact argues that “Nominee Trump” won’t “pander to women,” McLøvenskiolds drops this onion:
Women are 52% of voters, and so technically women control the outcome of all elections in ways that men do not: should women desire it, no man could ever win elective office.
In Imaginary Hypothetical Land, I suppose. In the real world, even though women do make up the majority of voters — both because women slightly outnumber men in the US, and because women are more likely to vote — women don’t vote, and never have voted, as a bloc. Neither do any other large demographic groups.
Also, as is clear to any political observer who does not have their head up their posterior, there is a lot more to politics than the gender ratio of voters. Women may slightly outnumber men, but the overall power structure, in the US and around the world, is heavily dominated by men, Men control the party apparatus of both major parties in the US; wealthy men (and groups of mostly men) skew election results by pumping money into the system to cover ads and other expenses.
I could go on and on about this one sentence from McLøvenskiolds, but like I said, this thing is an onion.
And we haven’t even gotten to the best bit. Let’s continue:
Men cannot control elections in the same way because men as a class are not the majority of voters.
Men “are not the majority of voters” in part because individual men are less likely to vote than women. If men started voting in higher proportion than women, they could easily become the majority of voters.
Also, all the stuff I said above. Political life in the US is so heavily dominated by men that men can opt out of voting and still expect men as a class to get more than their fair share of power.
So far, so bad. But it’s at this point that McLøvenskiolds sets forth his most, well, unique perspective on human history:
That’s right, feminists: your alleged “patriarchy” was created and maintained by the female electorate. Everything elected officials do is the responsibility of women as a class, not men. It is all YOUR fault, not men.
Er, dude, the patriarchy has been around for literally thousands of years. Historian Gerda Lerner’s celebrated The Creation of Patriarchy argues that the mixture of legal subordination and lopsided social power that we now call patriarchy developed “over a period of nearly 2500 years, from app. 3100 to 600 b.c.”
Women in the US got the vote less than a hundred years ago. They only became the majority of voters in presidential elections in the US in 1980.
Yes, women were involved in the creation of patriarchy — as Lerner notes, elite women benefitted from it in various ways, thought obviously less than their male counterparts — but unless there was some gigantic rift in space-time that sent modern American women back to the ancient Near East that I’ve never heard about, women didn’t vote patriarchy in.
Demonstrating an understanding of politics as keen as his understanding of history, McLøvenskiolds goes on to suggest that Trump might get a bump in the polls if he were to pick Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg as his veep.
She is a successful author and businessperson like Trump himself; Trump and the recently widowed Sandberg would make a formidable pair that would make progressives like [nickname of college student currently being harassed by MRAs and other terrible people deleted by DF] fling her toddler arms so fiercely they would surely fly off her well-marbled torso.
And that whole “widow” thing puts her over the top!
Asking a recent widow to be his running mate would strike a chord of sympathy with women that would ring on for months. It would be a masterstroke worthy of The Donald.
Never mind that Sandberg is a feminist and a longtime donor to Democratic causes who supports Hillary Clinton.
Also, Trump would probably have to apologize for this:
Just watched Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg on 60 Minutes. She should spend more time trying to get the F stock price up & less on her ego!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 30, 2013
You see what I mean by that Wrongness Onion thing?
EDITED TO ADD:
Here’s how AVFM teased McL’s post on its main page:
Concur? Do they mean “conquer?”
And, no, AVFMers, women are only “the leisure class” in your delusional minds.
Who the hell “edits” these things?
<3 Good luck, Chio. Humans are complicated, he sounds like no exception. He also sounds like he's worth the effort. I really hope it works out for you!
Happy Mothers day everyone! Here’s to mom’s everywhere, even a MGTOW/MRA/PUA/Alt-Right would agree to that right?
If not that’s a brand new petty low.
Happily my SO has changed drastically compared to when we first started dating, but it’s a long hard road and requires staggering amounts of time and effort which I would be extremely reluctant to recommend to anyone. But it has happened, so thought I would share.
In my situation he was an immature, tantrum-throwing asshat who thought women “jumped on the feminist bandwagon for attention” and believed anxiety and depression “weren’t real mental illnesses”.
Quite a catch, I know. Considering I was a mental health worker at the time I can only conclude I was blinded by lust. And rum. Lots and lots of rum.
It took me leaving him, after putting up with 18 months of him throwing his toys out of the pram whenever I didn’t smile enough (arglebargle) before he figured maybe he was the problem.
He sought counselling, then attempted to access a perpetrator programme and engaged with their counselling service instead. He educated himself on Lundy Bancroft’s work and on social justice in general. He began to challenge transphobic articles shared by his friends, made new friends who didn’t enable his previous behaviour and paid attention to the issues faced by the women around him. He began to make links, and then more links. He now jokes about his whiteness and his male privilege, and gravitates towards media that doesn’t feature white, straight, cis male protagonists.
Now I’m the one that has to remind myself that he may have needs too, as he’ll listen to me talk for hours. If I’m anxious, he reassures me and apologises if it’s not exactly what I need. When we argue, which is rare, it may take an hour instead of a week and ends in a healthy resolution rather than denial, minimization and blame.
When I tell him how much he’s changed, he looks uncomfortable and says that it’s an ongoing process. He says he’ll never be ‘changed’, he can only keep on committing to that process.
@OoglyBoggles
AVM
https://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2012/05/13/happy-mothers-day-the-a-voice-for-men-way-note-much-worse-than-youd-think/
Voxman
https://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/05/11/vox-day-honor-mothers-yes-theyre-women-but-without-them-the-western-sub-species-of-man-would-go-extinct/
@Glenn
I know googling is really hard, so I went ahead and did it for you, and it turns out that women, as the women here have been patiently explaining to you, do not like being approached for casual sex. http://interpersona.psychopen.eu/article/view/121/html
This one is on the house, but next time you want us to do your work for you, we’ll need something in return.
I do think that Glenn will wind up genuinely alone. He’s trained himself to view women as commodities and not quite fully human, so his odds of a successful romantic relationship are diminished, but in addition PUAs have very little to offer in friendship, which is why they resort to game in the first place. They don’t have many interests beyond getting laid, very little knowledge beyond game, and just aren’t very fun to be around.
That’s what “alone” means. It means being like Roosh, whining about how nobody wants to be near him and how onerous it is to wipe his own ass. That’s where Glenn is headed. And that makes me smile.
@Scildfreja
Yes, yes, he is a good person. He is wonderful in practice, terrible in theory. It’s like a child who loves to eat onions – unless you call it onions. Are black people in disadvantage for their race? Definitely. Are black people opressed? Hell, no. It makes me crazy, but i’m learning to live with it.
@Misha
Oh, god, I am so sorry. Mine is not that bad. I’m glad he changed, but yes… It’s slow and painful.
@PoM and Glenn
And you know what, Glenn, we mostly notice we are being used. It doesnt work on empowered women, they are disgusted by it, and thats why part of the sttategy is looking for women as emotionally fragile as possible, and make her ever more fragile. We may accept it because we are used to being treated like that, or because we think we don’t deserve better. But the moment someone shows us we deserve better, and make us truly happy, we drop you for the well, beta Bucks? Manginas? And can never look at PUAs with anything but pity. It sounds sad not to be able to build relationships of mutual respect with 50% of humanity, only abusive ownership.
Hey, any vegetarians/vegans out there with bacon cravings? I finally found a bacon substitute that actually works. I’ve spent the last few weeks recreating old dinners that I used to make with bacon. I’ve even put it on burgers! It’s made from coconut flakes, i.e. those larger flat pieces of coconut. Where I live, they’re marketed as unsalted coconut chips.
Here:
3 cups of coconut flakes
3 tbsp tamari sauce
2½ tbsp liquid smoke/hickory
1½ tbsp maple syrup
some oil and salt
Spread the coconut flakes out on a baking sheet. Mix the tamari, liquid smoke and maple syrup together and coat the coconut with it. Bake at 175c/350f for 10 minutes or so. Keep an eye on it, and leave it in a little longer for more crispy ‘bacon’. After it’s out of the oven, mix in some oil and salt.
It tastes pretty much like actual bacon with an added subtle coconut flavor. It’s spectacular!
@Scildfreja
That betelguise gif was so perfect. I’m so glad I wasn’t drinking anything when I saw it!
@Glenn
Mate, stop creeping. PUA shit doesn’t work unless you’re using it to manipulate inexperienced, insecure young women. Don’t be that guy. Just have a regular conversation and ask someone out (although not hiking because we only pretend to like that so we can take photos) and get to know them. It might end up somewhere, it might not, but at least it’s real and not based on some stupid made up game.
Happy birthday, PI ^_^
So far I’ve seen this only when it applies to boner feelings. Woman doesn’t want to have sex with you > boner feelings. Other than that, I’ve noticed that everyone here is pretty respectful of the feelings of others, unless they fall into entitled crybaby territory.
@Petal
Sounds delicious! I eat meat but the pork industry here in the US is awful so it’s always nice to have an alternative. I bet you could use the same flavorings mixed with coconut oil as a substitute for bacon grease. I don’t cook with bacon grease often, but sometimes it makes a big difference.
@Misha
It seems like you’ve demanded the moral high ground over your partner.
Disagreement does not equal abuse, even if his opinions were annoying or offensive. He’s done this because he wants to be with you.
Late retraction: On second thoughts, getting angry at someone for not smiling – particularly someone with a mental illness – could potentially be abusive.
(Apologies, bad call.)
I’m definitely not alone. I have my cat Biff! Seriously though, there is a tradition of solitary women in my family. My maternal grandmother never remarried when she lost her husband to cancer in 1962, she died in 2007. My mum has never shown an interest in chasing men again after she hoofed my dads lying cheating arse out the house in 1988. I had my heart broken so comprehensively in 2002 I couldn’t face the prospect of a relationship for a long time, then I realised I liked not being in one.
My sisters are just the opposite though, both happily settled down with the chaps they met at university. Both lovely fellas. Maybe one day an awesome woman will come into my life who I can share comics, videogames and kung fu movies with, until then it’s fighting with the cat over my pillow at night and him stealing the duvet while I sleep.
@Policy of Madness
I never thought of it that way. Thanks for pointing that out.
You told us what your pickup strategy is, and we told you that it’s creepy. We, a group of random women from all over the world, told you it was creepy.
We may not be all of women, and women aren’t a monolith, but when you get a random smattering of women from various walks of life and social upbringings telling you you’re doing something wrong…you might wanna consider it. It’s like a random sample.
Not to mention, you got really fucking creepy when we started telling you shit you didn’t want to hear, and despite you saying you “understand boundaries” and listen when women make it clear they don’t want to hear from you, here you still are! Despite the fact we’ve told you to fuck off several times now!
Way to prove to us that PUA isn’t all about rapey, creepy, douchiness, that doesn’t take women’s feelings or personal safety into account, Glenn!
So, I’ll say it again: Fuck off.
No. We’re suggesting that your boner and “need” for sex isn’t above a woman’s comfort and safety, and that it isn’t a good idea to approach women randomly on the street just to hit on them (and we even suggested good places where women would actually be receptive to you hitting on them), and you continued to whine that you need to get your boner wet, and apparently randomly walking up to women on the street is the only way you can think to do it because you’re fucking dense and don’t give a shit about anyone’s discomfort because your dick is all you fucking think about.
http://static.tumblr.com/1fbc548841fcd6d5734f10ce49652d02/otlwdmj/nO6o3n9lb/tumblr_static_jdrxk3zluwow4wcss4cw8ccw.gif
No one cares about your boner, Glenn. And no, women shouldn’t be forced into a situation they don’t feel comfortable in just so you can get your boner feels addressed. Their discomfort should be considered.
You’re a skeezy, inconsiderate, delusional little shit, and while you believe that you’re a perfect gentlemen who knows how to deal with women, you’ve only proven to us that you’re about as smooth as driveway gravel on a bed of 24 grit sandpaper.
You don’t give a shit about what any woman has to say about it, however, because you’ll just try to hand-wave them away like you did us because we don’t fit your little PUA-bubble narrative and try to mansplain how we should feel to accommodate you and your dick instead of fucking listen. Because all we are to you are things to fuck.
Eat shit. Fuck off.
Fuck off, skag turd.
@ IP
Yup. Funnily enough someone else has just recommended a very similar recipe. I’ll have to give it a go. The big problem I’ve been having is finding cold meat substitutes for salads now it’s summer. Weirdly I’ve now discovered that if you get those Quorn chicken burgers, cook them, let them cool and scrape the breadcrumbs off they do a reasonable impression of cold chicken. I’ve also found a decent tofu based tuna replacement. So just need veggie corned beef and I’m sorted.
Screwed that link up.
Lemmie try again.
I’ve found that eggplant sliced into slabs, marinated in maple syrup, balsamic vinegar and smoked paprika, then dehydrated on a low heat until it becomes like jerky makes a delicious veggie bacon.
I’ve also tried out the sous vide tomato imitation tuna with rice vinegar and a touch of soy sauce, and it came out very convincingly. My sushi rolling skills are really sloppy though, I just gave up and made seaweed wrap burritos.
@Glenn,
The issue here is that you said you weren’t interested in women who go to singles’ bars or “those sorts of environments”. I.e. women looking to hook up. You don’t want that kind of woman.
You, a guy looking to hook up, don’t want a woman who also wants to hook up.
Here, let me write it out formally.
{
You are looking to meet someone for casual.
You are not looking for someone who explicity wants to have casual sex.
}
–> You are looking to have sex with a woman who does not want to.
Sort of self-descriptive, that.
Now you can say that your goal is to be so charming that she ends up wanting sex with you. You likely think this.
This only happens in movies. People can’t charm the pants off of someone. “Tingles” don’t exist. Moving from a person who doesn’t have casual sex to one who does is a personality shift, which takes time and is something intrinsic to the person, and can’t be gamed. Source: I’m a fucking intelligence researcher. Those traits are stable over long periods of time.
Charm doesn’t work on a woman who’s not already looking for casual sex. Know what does? Coercion does. Manipulation does. Intimidation does.
You don’t want women looking for casual sex because you don’t want sex with a willing woman.
I leave you to connect the fucking dots.
Sincerely,
– Scildfreja
Vegan stuff? Here’s a big playlist of some excellent basic vegan prep dishes. Great fundamentals here that you can use to make all sorts of stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGLfVvz_LVvRG3TYWrZ9KRBdwp-T49OK3
Really creative, quite simple, and very good! Great for diets. Let me know if you try some of these – I haven’t tried a lot of them, and would love to know how they turn out!
@Scildfreja
You’re right.
Glenn, that makes you beyond creepy.
Scildfreja’s analysis is spot-on.