MGTOWs, like most of the misogynists I write about in this blog, love to talk about the male gender as being more rational and scientific than the allegedly irrational and overemotional human female. Unfortunately, most of MGTOWs seem to have learned science at the University of Mianus.
The latest example I’ve encountered of this massive science fail comes from the veritable fountain of science fail, and failure generally, that is the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit.
In a posting yesterday, a fellow named E46M54 announced his latest findings:
Scientific fact: women are not capable of loving men in the same way men love women.
Mr. E46M54, relying heavily on information provided by the Scientific Fact department at the University of Mianis, elaborated:
This stems from thousands of years of evolution as a species. Historically, it was the men that risked their lives hunting dangerous animals, going off into battle, doing dangerous physical labor, and fighting other males to the death for a chance to mate.
Dangerous animals, eh? Would that include … THE MAMMOTH?
While the current inhabitants of r/MGTOW are free to hunt mammoths to their heart’s content in Far Cry Primal, the notion of prehistoric “Man the Hunter” may have more to do with sexist anthropologists than with science. Today, many anthropologists think that both men and women hunted, and our ancient ancestors seem to have, wisely, focused more on hunting small, non-dangerous animals, as these animals were – you know — much less likely to kill them.
If you were on a sinking Titanic, you had to drown in frigid waters while women boarded the lifeboats.
Not so much “a sinking Titanic” as THE sinking Titanic, as the “wealthy women and children first” evacuation procedure used on that sinking ship has never been the general policy on sinking ships.
As a result, the chances of being killed as a male were always astronomically higher than it would be for females. This made men essentially expendable, and females evolved to not place too much emotional stake in any one particular male, as he wasn’t likely to be around for long.
Not so much. While women today tend to outlive men by a significant amount, this hasn’t always been the case, at least as far as we can tell from the limited historical data we have.
In England and Wales from the early 1600s to the start of the 20th century, to take two examples for which we have actual numbers, the differences in mortality due to gender were small, and there were stretches of time during which men were likely to live longer.
In the prehistoric world before the invention of agriculture, men may have lived slightly longer as well. Apparently, getting stomped to death by mammoths was less of a risk to men than childbirth was to women.
Another factor in this is the manner in which males have typically been the providers. Yes, feminists will claim this no longer applies because they’re oh-so-independent. However this is only true for about the last 50 years. For the other 200,000 years of human existence, it was the male who provided for, protected, and offered security to the females.
This assertion is so clearly ass-derived and so obviously, totally WRONG I’m not even going to bother to refute it.
Well, maybe I’ll refute it a little. Hey E46M54, what exactly are these women doing?
I’ll stop.
This is another evolutionary truth that carries over into modern times. What a women calls ‘love’ is more likely to be this feeling of being provided for, often by way of money and social status, or in it’s most rudimentary form; entertainment (“make me laugh”).
Ok, admittedly it’s true that MGTOWs make a lot of women laugh. Men too.
In contrast, the male historically gained none of this by being with a woman. So if a man says he loves a woman, chances are it was really love, as there was little else to be gained.
So men, collectively, have been the biggest suckers in history? I thought men were supposed to be the smart ones?
Finally, we should note the suicide statistics. It is actually very common for males to commit suicide over a woman leaving. Many of us may actually know a male or two who’s suicide was associated with a breakup. In contrast, women committing suicide over a male leaving is VIRTUALLY UNHEARD OF. Little else is needed to explain this other than acknowledging that women in general do not care about or ‘love’ men as deeply as men love women.
Breakups may trigger suicide, but the leading cause is untreated depression. Women attempt suicide at higher rates than men. Men succeed more often because they tend to use more lethal methods. In particular, guns. Men are far more likely to shoot and kill themselves with a gun than they are to be shot and killed by someone else. Given that suicide is generally an impulsive act, and those who try and fail generally regret trying, it seems pretty clear to me that fewer guns would mean fewer male suicides.
But MRAs so love using male suicides as a trump card in internet arguments that they rarely bother to think about ways to actually reduce male suicide other than yelling at women online, which is not actually terribly useful for anyone.
In conclusion, women cannot reciprocate the same levels of affection you give them, and hence you are far better off NOT BOTHERING WITH THEM.
Huh. Apparently the best way to NOT BOTHER WITH women is to talk shit about them endlessly on the internet.
Naturally, Reddit’s NOT BOTHERING WITH WOMEN BY TALKING SHIT ABOUT THEM ON THE INTERNET community — that is, the regulars in the MGTOW subreddit — gave Mr. E46M54’s scientific treatise a warm reception, and several dozen upvotes.
Others weighed in with their own ass-informed theories.
“In prehistoric times, life was very tenous,” wrote Five_Decades, using a more efficient, time-saving spelling of “tenuous.”
There were predators, wars, intra-tribal violence, accidents, diseases, famines, etc. An alpha male was not guaranteed to be alpha forever, he would get sick or injured eventually and I think women evolved to branch swing to the strongest male when an alpha showed signs of weakness. The women who stayed with a broken, diseased alpha male were at a disadvantage over the women who cut their losses and moved onto the next guy.
Damn, those gals are cold!
Jaeryth, meanwhile, set forth his own somewhat-less-than-glowing take on modern relationships:
Men are typically the ones who are providing, with long hours worked and spending gratuitous sums of cash on the woman – who may claim that they don’t ask for much but most likely do.
When he comes home, he has to listen to her complain about how he’s never home, how he doesn’t care about her, how he doesn’t love her or how things have ‘changed.’ You’ve all been there, you’ve all had to deal with the upset and bored woman with nothing better to, do mulling over thoughts for weeks before coming at you with the kill. …
And you get called uncaring for it, all kinds of harsh names and stereotypes. And what’s best, the ungrateful c**t doesn’t ever want to hear about your troubles, and will probably leave you the moment you even bring them up. You’re just a living dildo to fill her holes and her wallet so she has a nice purse and some tits to seduce a higher status man.
Is it me, or is that last sentence just a teensy bit, well, hard to parse?
You’re just a living dildo to fill her holes and her wallet so she has a nice purse and some tits to seduce a higher status man.
If I’m reading this correctly, women are filling their wallets with, er, penises, in order to improve the quality of their purses and to grow breasts. Women are then using these penis-wallet-enhanced purses, as well as their new breasts, to seduce some better dude?
I’m still a bit confused. Perhaps someone could draw me a diagram?
Victor_knight offered his own “evolutionary” perspective.
Put simply, from a strictly evolutionary standpoint (and this shit cannot be ignored even with humans today), a man’s entire purpose of existence is to get his sperm to fertilize a woman’s egg. After that, nature couldn’t give a shit if he lived or died. In fact, better he die because he will not be consuming any more of (limited) resources available once his genes have already been passed on.
Wait, I thought men were supposed to provide both sperm and money. If women are just using us dudes for our sperm, how are they getting money? I thought they all they were good at was sitting around eating those proverbial bon-bons?
Oh, wait, I forgot about Big Daddy government. As victor_knight argued in a followup comment:
Once children come along, the “prized” man becomes even less important to the woman than he was before. In fact, at this point, she really doesn’t care if he sticks around or not (in many cases she actually wants him gone) as long as someone (e.g. the state, the divorced man, the public) is paying her bills.
Got it! For a second I was afraid that the entire ideological edifice of MGTOWism was going to crumble underneath me.
Cynicalsimon offered his cynical take:
Women have NEVER brought much to our species existence and quality of life EVER!
Furthermore, a womens ‘love’ with a man is only infatuation because she has hundreds of other male ‘options'(all disposable to her of course)
Simon ended his comment with a confusing reference to fellatio that I am still trying to parse.
SigmaDiabolicum summed it all up with this Zen koan:
Men love unconditionally (until given a reason not to, anyway) … .
So, unconditionally, except with conditions.
What is the sound of one MGTOW fapping?
Probably a bit like this, actually.
Fun fact: evidence suggests that for early humans in hunter gatherer societies, having a maternal grandmother around was a better indicator of a child’s survival than having a dad around. Meat was great and all, but it was sporadic, and Grandma was digging up the tubers you needed to be able to eat every day.
Up until the 1950s most women (and if you go a little further back, most children) had to contribute to income generation for a family to survive. Single income households were idealized after the industrial revolution, but only became realistic for most in the post WWII economy. Prior to the industrial revolution, it was expected that wives work to earn money alongside their husbands.
Unless you’re a MGTOW, then The Flinstones was a documentary.
@brian
The answer is basically no. Sometimes there might be a post here and there that isn’t explicitly about women, but the vast majority is about the horrible females.
Looking at the first page of the subreddit right now, these are the topics:
“The female medical student caught on camera throwing a tantrum on an Uber driver and destroying his car got fired from the hospital she was working for”
“Another delusional ‘gender studies’ graduate claims that being straight doesn’t mean heterosexual”
“Gold-digger post of the day – Paul McCartney”
“About to graduate, afraid of the toxic work environment nowadays” (toxic because of women – IP)
“Human men contain DNA that only exists in human men”
“Lesbian couple kept a young boy in a cage for years then tried to blame him for their murder of another boy”
“Motivation for the MGTOW Fam.” (long post, entirely whining about “feminism” and “entitled fuckginas” – IP)
“It’s textbook….” (about Phil Spector’s divorce from evil woman – IP)
“Gold-digger crimes”
“This guy’s unicorn — ‘She stays at home during the day, and I’m not sure what she does… she has started gaining a lot of weight.'”
“9 Signs you are Husband Material!” (complaining about “princess complex” – IP)
“The RPM with Rollo & Niko: Runaway Hypergamy”
“Women need to face the reality of The Wall”
“Looking for a piece of news about college male bystander being punished for not stopping a false rape” (evil women again… – IP)
“Some MGTOW Wisdom In Arabic Comedy” (some comedy skit about different “wife personalities”, all of which are presumably terrible – IP)
“Are Men Finished? Intelligence Squared Debate”
“Holy shit, this girl ruined this guy’s life to the point where he left the country.”
“The Apotheosis Of Woman”
“When you don’t GYOW” (just lyrics from Metallica’s Unforgiven – IP)
“MGTOW: The New Outlets for Bitter Males to Bash Black Women”
“Note the male suicide rate is 4 times higher. Imagine the SJW media outrage if women were 4 times higher. With disposable men its just accepted.”
“Margaret Mead and the Samoa”
“Is subverting feelz with hookers recommended?”
“Just found out about mgtow at 19 here’s my story I guess and want to get some advice from some veteran Mgtows” (“the story” is about a past relationship with a woman, surprise surprise – IP)
“Kesha admits to breaking into Prince’s home and stalking him. Imagine the outrage if genders were reversed and a male was breaking into Kesha’s house and stalking her”
—
So, out of 25 topics on the first page, only 3 are arguably not entirely about women. One is just Metallica lyrics. One is about “male DNA”, which is contrasted with useless “female DNA”, so that one is also kinda about women. The Intelligence Squared debate I haven’t watched, but the discussion in the comments is entirely about how terrible all women are.
So really only the Metallica lyrics are not about women.
@Buttercup
So true. Unconditional love is meaningless.
@brian
I did take a look, and, short answer: mostly, no.
Long answer: I found a piece that I suppose might be vaguely inspiring, Metallica songs (which I guess are related to their issues with women), a news article about a college student who was punished for letting a woman be raped (“adorably” worded as “false rape”, as per misogynists standard procedure), a dude looking for a van, and this: https://www.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/4fyjyn/nonfemale_related_reason_to_go_mgtow
Still, things that one wouldn’t think would be related to how they see women, like getting a dog or choosing a new career path, are still somehow done because women are all such terrible [slur, slur, slur, MORE SLUR].
But yes, they mostly just bash women.
EDIT: NINJA’ED!
@IP – Meaningless, and dangerous. Imagine the levels of abuse that could be perpetrated if one partner was free to —
Ohhh. THAT’s what they’re complaining about.
Ironically, they sneer at actual acts of unconditional love. Men who help their partners through illness, grief, job loss, even something as innocuous as moving? Betas. Cucks. Maginas. White-knight orbiters. Suckers. They can’t conceive of doing something kind for another person just because it’s the right thing to do.
MGTOWs can’t love unconditionally, but they sure can hate unconditionally. It doesn’t matter what women do or say, they’ll be there through thick and thin to tell us we’re wrong. There is nothing we can say to make them stop hating us. It’s about the only consistent thing they’re capable of.
@Imaginary Petal
Jeezus, I can only applaud you and offer my thanks for your bravery and patience to venture in, transcribe all the post titles, and delve deeper when necessary to figure out whether ambiguous ones were about women or not.
I know it’s been said a billion times, but… I just Dont. Get. It.
Fucking Go Your Own Way already.
I’ve Gone My Own Way better than these assholes without even trying, insofar as it’s been like 12 years now since my last romantic/sexual relationship and like 8 years since I even half-seriously considered trying to pursue one. And it’s not as if I haven’t found myself feeling angry/betrayed with a few specific women in the past.
But for some reason I never felt compelled to seek out places online where I could complain about them, generalize that anger to the entire gender, and then actively seek out (and wholly invent) other evidence to support a new bullshit believe that all women are terrible sub-human creatures.
Also “The Wall”? I thought that was a PUA thing? Are MGTOWs basically just PUAs that have failed at PUing one too many times and given up even trying to PU in favor of non-stop (figurative, hopefully) woman-bashing? Do they just claim to have “Gone Their Own Way” because they don’t want to admit they were terrible at PUing?
Also, I think dogs might be capable of unconditional love.
But: A) I like dogs better than most people, so I’m biased and B) The emotions of animals are different than the emotions of humans
He wrote himself a tall tale to explain away the fact women just don’t like him or want him around. He isn’t going his own way, he was sent pack’n and now he has a sad.
There are plenty of good reasons not to date. Self care is one of them. Even if this dude wasn’t such a misogynist jerk, I’d advise him to take plenty of time to himself to recover from the break up that hurt him so badly. It takes time and reflection to get yourself back to center when you get your heart broken. There are so many healthy ways he could be growing. Writing just so stories to excuse the misogyny that probably led to his rejection is not one of them.
For starters, he might actually learn something about history and anthropology. That would be an edifying use of his time. But building yourself takes work and tearing others down doesn’t. I find it funny that these brave, superior, logical men can’t handle the tougher path.
Oh god, can you imagine being in a relationship with one of these guys.
MGTOW and partner, both working similar hours arrive home.
MGTOW: What are you making for dinner?
Partner: I’ve cooked every night this week. Could you cook tonight?
MGTOW: But I’ve been at work all day to provide for you! I’m not some beta mangina!
Partner: I’ve been at work all day too. Maybe order a pizza?
MGTOW: See?! You only want me for my money. Which I earn at my job where I work to PROVIDE FOR YOU because I am a manly alpha male provider. And I don’t think pizza is a good idea, you’ve been gaining weight lately.
Partner: *has had enough of this shit and leaves*
MGTOW: This is all her fault, she is incapable of love, all she wanted was my money and didn’t even listen to my feeeeeelings about her getting fat.
…………
I’m actually not sure I’m capable of romantic love, pretty sure I’m aromantic. (My phone just tried to change that to a romantic, which is literally the opposite.) I’m also pansexual so I’m like a MGTOW’s worst nightmare, riding the cock carousel while not unconditionally loving any of them. And yet despite being such a terrible feeeeemale I make monthly payments to my ex because a few months before we broke up he bought us a sofa that cost £2000. When we broke up it made sense for me to keep the sofa as I have a big house and kids (not his kids by the way) whereas he moved into a flat, so we set up a payment plan.
But to MGTOWs, everything a woman does is evil and everything a man does is either because he is super amazing or because he is a victim of gynocracy. And even though their theories are illogical, viewed through a filter of hating women they make perfect sense.
@Ouraboros13:
They’re that only if you’re 12 and hate your mother. Srsly, these guys all sound like kids whose moms told them to stop eating so much junk food, and do their homework, and stop hogging the bathroom (to wank, natch). The fact that she brought them into this world, and is at least half responsible for maintaining their ongoing existence in it (and often wholly so if she’s a single mom), somehow just slips right past them.
And when a girl they’ve had their eye on sees right through them, finds them and their endless sexist historically-ignorant maunderings boring, and picks someone better, they get pissy and think all women are worthless bags-o-bonbons, because REASONS. Never mind that they owe their very existence to one, and that all of the female gender are doing the world’s scut-work so these would-be Philosopher Kings can sit on their pimply duffs all day, talking shit about them.
And of course, as you pointed out, these guys are masters of projection. It’s the only skill they’ve truly mastered, and it’s worthless in the larger world.
No wonder they’re drones.
I see where he gets his science wrong. On the whole, us men are less emotional and have a low degree of empathy, because historically we have been always called upon to kill to protect our women folk, and therefore our progeny or put food on the table. Being a triained killing machine ensures the survival of our genes for the next generation then it begins again. If we had a high emotional intelligence instead of a high IQ we would have become prey for other animals thousands of years ago and mankind would have become extinct instead of developing technology to ensure his survival and conquering space. If we we all like women we would have been to soft to kill animals and provide our children with fatty acids to ensure the ongoing evolution of the brain.
Y’know, it’s just occurred to me, reading through all this (and catching up on missed comments):
These guys are the ones who can’t love unconditionally, and as usual, they project that on women and girls as an entire gender. Never mind the rather important fact that if it weren’t for a woman’s unconditional love (or at least, her unconditional devotion to motherly duty, or even to the Man’s law compelling her not to neglect her child), these little shits wouldn’t even be here…they’d have been cast off on an ice floe in the Arctic to fend for themselves.
Which, come to think of it, is just what MGTOW should do, if they really meant it with that “going their own way” shitcrap. Just do it, boys. Hop on that iceberg, and sail away to your glorious destiny. If you can’t pitch in, fuck off.
And if you can’t do that, quit your kvetching and get real. Accept that no one owes you anything, and that what you get out of this world is no more than what you put in.
(And no, your Superior Male Intellect Alone™ doesn’t count.)
My cousin’s toddler used to sometimes throw a strop fit and announce she was leaving forever, take 3 steps towards the door and then turn around, come back smiling and saying “Did you miss me?”
Apart from the fact that she was about 4 then and is today a highly-skilled young woman and a delight to be with, that’s the MGTOW approach in a nutshell.
Apart from the coming back smiling bit, too. Standing still flinging poo and shouting “I’m leaving” and “Look what you made me do,” for the next few decades is closer.
On the subject of relationships in the past, it’s hard to draw any conclusions about people’s feelings. There have been efforts to argue that the high infant mortality meant people cared less about their children, which I find hard to believe (you might become numb and defeated, of course) and which seems to go against at least some of the documented expressions of grief – I always think of Ben Jonson’s epitaph on his infant son, for example. It is a fact that for about two hundred years or so in Europe, a high proportion of middle class, artisan and tenant farming men outlived more than one wife due to perinatal mortality, remarrying often within a year of the death of the previous one: a matter of family survival, especially of children. Should we suppose they did not also care for each other?
You’re just a living dildo to fill her holes and her wallet so she has a nice purse and some tits to seduce a higher status man.
Oh, let me have a go at this one, pretty please?
By “living dildo” I assume they mean “penis” but are too delicate to mention it.
I don’t have a penis of my own, though my beloved sometimes lends me his for fun purposes, but I certainly wouldn’t want one filling my earholes or my nostrils, thank you so very much.
My wallet could not be emptier right now – there’s £1.52 in the house until Tuesday – but again, dildos living or otherwise are not what I’m looking for to fill it. They are rather hard to spend (a 17th century innuendo).
I’ve had tits since at least 10 years before I first had sex with a man, and as far as I know, no penis has ever helped me get any. It certainly seemed like they just grew on me.
The manosphere seems to think that we all keep massive charts tracking every man’s status in relation to every other man in the world in minute, second-by-second fluctuations. Otherwise how on earth would we know if we were trading up?
That would be one hell of a spreadsheet. I wonder where it’s on display – Gynocracy Central Office? And who did the coding for it? Must have been a white knight as it couldn’t possibly be a product of our teeny non-STEM ladybrains.
I must get my arse down there one of these days. I hear the bonbons are terrific.
@Imaginary Petal
I’m sure I’ll regret asking, but what on earth does this mean?
I just found an article that ought to cheer MGTOWs right up!
Suicide in the United States has surged to the highest levels in nearly 30 years, a federal data analysis has found, with increases in every age group except older adults. The rise was particularly steep for women.
Ooh, another one that should warm the cockles of their hearts… if cold dead, hearts have cockles.
Why were so many white women reporting precipitous drops in health, mental health, comfort and mobility during their working-age prime? Why, over the last eight years alone, had more than 300,000 of those women essentially chosen to poison themselves?
Aaaah, the rectum derived arguments! Made my day.
These guys tend to be really confused in what they think about men and women.
1.Women are stupid and men are smart, but women have played men for thousands of years and have gotten them to take care of their womanly asses.
2. Men have never been important to humanity! Yet woman have never done anything important for humanity either.
3. Only children are important! Unless we don’t want those children, then they can go to hell!
4. Women only want men for sex and taking care of her! Yet we only want women for sex and taking care of us!
And finally :
Of course. These guys will love you unconditionally IF you pass all their requirements and never change anything. But damn us women folk for not loving you if you give us reasons not to.
@Tara
Quoting from the post:
I’d say he means “suppress” rather than “subvert”.
Sex workers don’t deserve MGTOWs.
Yeah, I’ve never been able to understand how, if men are really so “disposable”, it can possibly be the case that men (slightly) outnumber women globally. If men are just dying by the millions all over the place, how come there are still more men than women? Is the MRA theory that most babies are boys?
@Bluecat
Or maybe the New York Cock Exchange
…
…
@IP
Ugh. I feel sorry for both women in that scenario. Why don’t these guys just GTOW?
MGTOW are still talking about that woman who was an asshole to the Uber driver? Men yell obscenities at women and girls on the street all over the world every single day and they always say it’s no big deal and we should just get over it. It’s also pretty common for male Uber drivers to sexually assault their female passengers. But one woman rages a man one time and they freak out about it for months on end. And what does it say about our culture that it was in the news when a woman was filled with scary rage towards a man but didn’t kill or seriously injure him? When men are filled with rage towards us, it’s just considered the normal course of things and will not become news unless he decides to commit mass murder. We’re supposed to accept that rage too. After all, he must be emotionally hurting and it’s our job to fix it.
@IP: OMG, reading your summary of the posts over on that reddit with the little (-IP) at the end felt so much like reading a comic book published in the 70s with the little explanations in boxes with -Ed at the end of it. It took me an embarrassingly long time to realise that -Ed wasn’t a name, but just short for editor…
Also have any of these MGTOWs spent any time with children at all? Like ever? You know what helps an incredible amount with child raising? Having someone to spell you off, and to support you through the hard times. (Speaking as an observant aunt) My heart goes out to all the single parents out there, you are all amazing.
MGTOW realise that you can’t typically live off of child support, right? Like a parent still has to work? So having the father GTOW off is… not particularly desired? (*Unless they are an asshat, of course.)
Men slightly outnumber women? I thought I’d heard it was the other way around… or maybe I’ve just heard that there’s a slightly higher chance of conceiving a female than a male… which obviously doesn’t necessarily end up meaning there are actually more women than men…
Dr. NicolaLuna
I’ve felt this way all of my adult life. Although I love my husband, it’s more like he’s my super best friend. Husbeast is very romantic. I’m not sure how the whole thing works, but it does. *shrug*
@bluecat, Axecalibur:
I guess the gynocracy works like the stock exchange, where women secretly asses every man’s SMV (which we all have e*trade-like apps for) and the HB8 and above women are the day traders!